Thursday, March 25, 2010

rec.arts.movies.local.indian - 6 new messages in 4 topics - digest


Today's topics:

* Dr Jai Maharaj is a sad Monkey - 2 messages, 1 author
* WEN FOR EVER - 1 messages, 1 author
* Models Fashon Top Hot Sexy - 1 messages, 1 author

TOPIC: Dr Jai Maharaj is a sad Monkey

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 23 2010 4:42 pm
From: chhotemianinshallah

Nityananda ashram rejects charge of rape
PTI, Mar 8, 2010, 06.55pm IST
Article Comments (14)

Sex video: Ashram defends NityanandaBANGALORE: Rejecting rape charge
and doubts raised over death of a foreign devotee of self-styled
godman Paramahamsa Nityananda, his ashram on Monday said he would make
a public appearance soon and answer all allegations.

The charges were part of a "conspiracy to malign the image of the
swami and impede ashram's social activities," the ashram spokesperson
Nitya Sachidananda told reporters at the Nityananda Ashram near
Bidadi, about 40 km from here.

A 23-year-old woman, an inmate of the Bidadi ashram, had alleged that
Nithyananda had raped and sexually harassed dozens of women in the

Chennai police have registered a rape and cheating case against
Nityananda, days after video footage of his alleged sleazy acts were
telecast by TV channels.

Sachidananda also denied a charge that mystery shrouded the death of
foreign national Melvyan Boyd Diamond, a Yoga teacher in the ashram.

"Diamond had family history of cardiac problems and he died following
an accidental fall from the second floor of the building he lived in,"
he said, adding that the ashram had arranged for his cremation.

The operation to malign Nityananda had been done in "a surgical
precision" and "Swamiji himself will come and comment on all the
issues. As his "personal security" was at risk "we have advised him to
come after some days," the spokesperson said.

The ashram, which faced violent protests after telecast of the video,
has so far not lodged any police complaint.

Nityananda ashram rejects charge of rape
Article Comments 14

Bidadi ashram
Mohan USA 09 Mar, 2010 07:48 AM

All these guys disguised con people. Any basterd who still defends him
should be throiwn in jail as well. Why don't people check such idiots'
background before follow them. The laws should be strict so that such
crooks must ne hanged in public to make an example.revin malaysia 09
Mar, 2010 02:37 PM

Relax My dear friend..... if you dont know about him plz dont put such
commen. He teaching has transform many ppl life. thounds of ppl is
alive bcoz of his helling do u now haw many cancer patient has cured
and thy are alive 2day..... plz dont throw words will regret
ltr.Mansoor Dubai 09 Mar, 2010 01:53 PM

There are two type of godmenMark Canada 09 Mar, 2010 06:53 AM

Thank You Swami for all your help. You have been the greatest blessing
in my life. Mark.Arun Bangalore 09 Mar, 2010 04:44 AM

I find it curious that Sachitananda cites safety and security as being
the reason for Nithyananda's absence, while claiming that he is at the
Kumbha Mela. I would imagine an ashram with police protection is much
safer than mingling with lakhs of people in public.musing us 09 Mar,
2010 01:22 AM

The whole case against the swami seems manufactured. I would not be
surprised if the govt. is behind all this. At least the state govt. I
would also not be surprised if TOI takes perverse pleasure in
splashing this news all over their front pages for the next month. How
boring and predictable.Indian India 09 Mar, 2010 12:49 AM

India is fit only for Jihadi, Communists,Christian missionaries and
DMK Goons and their contribution for Indian Independence is NIL. Now
they are running the country by proxy for their foreign
bangalore 09 Mar, 2010 12:10 AM

As it is we live in a very cunning world.No one can believe anyone
henceforth.Natarajan Canada 08 Mar, 2010 08:30 PM

We need to monitor cases of sexual abuse at religious places. There
are several cases worse than this, involving children. Unfortunately
the cases involving children's sex abuse happen mostly at churches and
hence cannot be touched by our secular government.Shyam USA 08 Mar,
2010 08:19 PM

Is this framed by the Christian missions and the SUN TV who are PRO-
christians?Anand UAE 08 Mar, 2010 07:47 PM

If the swami could proove that the whole scandal is a conspiracy with
active connivance of some inmates like Lenin Karuppan, will the media
apologise to the public for the sensation created thru their column?
Medias should restrain from sensational journalism and should ensure
fair play.Jeevan Dubai 08 Mar, 2010 07:42 PM

Watch out.This fraud swami might use his power using the Politicial
parties and the top guys that he had in his list of followers.There is
no doubt that he is not involved in all the wrong things and he should
be given the severest of punishment so that the other fraud swami's
should learn a lesson.Daljit kuwait 08 Mar, 2010 07:26 PM

its our problem that we are treating these so called godman as
GOD .its time to show that they cannot play more with the sentiments
of people.Ashwani Hyderabad 10 Mar, 2010 05:03 PM

Like these ashrams/swamis, in many life saving institutions
(hospitals) these scandles do take place. Particularly super
speciality hospitals need to be monitored,

Quepem man held for raping daughter
TNN, Mar 22, 2010, 12.49am IST

MARGAO: In a macabre incident, the Quepem police on Sunday arrested
one Agnelo Pedro D'Costa, 48, from Catemol, Quepem, on charges of
raping his 17-year-old daughter.

What makes the crime ghastlier is the fact that the accused had
recently fathered a child through incestuous relations with the same
victim-his eldest daughter. Police sources said that the accused had
raped his daughter in April 2009, after threatening her with dire
consequences, following which she became pregnant and delivered a male
child on January 6, 2010.

"The victim, along with her newborn baby, was staying at Mother Tereza
Ashram, Panaji. Her father, meanwhile, would coerce his wife into
inviting their daughter home," Quepem PI Sudesh Narvekar said.

She finally came home on Saturday, only to be raped again by her

The accused's wife is learnt to be working as a domestic help in
another village. "On Sunday, ensuring that his wife had gone to work
and her daughter was home alone, the accused raped her," Narvekar

Based on the complaint lodged by the victim, the Quepem police
arrested the accused. Both the accused and the victim have been sent
for a medical examination, police sources added.

Significantly, the accused is the father of three sons and three
daughters. The victim had not reported the matter to the police when
her father had raped her earlier, police sources added.

Give regard to rape victim's wish to marry rapist: CJI
IANS, Mar 7, 2010, 03.33pm IST
Article Comments (1)

NEW DELHI: In a radical suggestion, India's Chief Justice K G
Balakrishnan on Sunday said that judges, lawyers and social activists
should give "due regard" to the wishes of a rape victim if she chooses
to marry the rapist or have the baby conceived from the crime.

"Judges, lawyers and social activists should also ensure that they do
not take an overtly paternalistic approach when they have to make
decisions for the welfare of rape victims," he said at a seminar.

"Due regard must be given to their personal autonomy since in some
cases the victim may choose to marry the perpetrator or choose to give
birth to a child conceived through forced intercourse," he said.

He was speaking at the seminar on "Access to Justice, Relief and
Rehabilitation of Rape Victims" organised by the ministry of women and
child development.

Others who addressed it included Law Minister M. Veerappa Moily and
Minister of State for Women and Child Development Krishna Tirath.

"We must also keep in mind that the interests of the victim are not
protected by punishing the offenders alone," said Balakrishnan,
referring to a law ministry move to enact a law to set up fast-track
courts to try sex-related offences.

"Adequate attention should also be drawn to suggestions for
compensatory remedies and the rehabilitation of rape victims through
the provision of shelter, counselling services, medical and legal

He also referred to the "secondary victimisation", which a rape victim
often has to suffer during the trial of the accused due to
inconvenient, probing and often indecent questions by the defence

"There is a very real phenomenon described as 'secondary
victimisation' wherein the victim of a crime faces additional
harassment and humiliation in the course of investigation and trial.
Especially when the perpetrators are in a position of power over the
victims, there is a strong distrust of the credibility of the
investigation itself," pointed out Balakrishnan.

"Some recent cases highlighted in the press have shown how the
investigative machinery can often be manipulated to protect
influential persons, howsoever reprehensible their crimes may be," he
said without naming the Ruchika Girhotra molestation and suicide case
involving former Haryana police chief S P S Rathore.

"The investigators, prosecutors and defence counsels must exhibit an
appropriate degree of sensitivity to the victims," he said.

"Especially during the trial proceedings, judges need to be proactive
in order to restrain the aggressive cross-examination of rape

The CJI also highlighted recent changes in law, which provides that
the past sexual history of victims must be ignored.

"The Indian Evidence Act was amended some years ago and a provision
was inserted to ensure that the past sexual history of a victim cannot
be given weightage in a trial for the offence of rape," pointed out
the CJI.

"What is needed now is for judges and lawyers to internalise the
principle that facts relating to the past sexual history of a victim
should not even be brought up in the first place, since the purpose of
a trial is to decide whether or not an offence took place as alleged,"
said Balakrishnan.

Rituparna's marital rape trauma
TNN, Feb 28, 2010, 12.00am IST

Rituparna SenguptaRituparna Sengupta says that getting under the skin
of the character can sometimes cause a lot of trauma. That is
precisely what the light eyed actress realised recently, while
shooting for Karan Razdan's Mittal Versus Mittal.

Playing a marital rape victim in the film, Rituparna got so involved
with her character that she felt it was really happening to her. After
shooting the marital rape sequence, she not only burst into cold
sweat, but continued to shiver for days after that. "It was
terrifying," admits Rituparna and says, "I kept seeing the sequence
for days in my sleep and woke up startled."

Such dedication is really impressive. Wonder after all this why
Rituparna hasn't got very far in her career, here in Bollywood? Can
you tell us why please?

Girl set on fire for resisting rape attempt
TNN, Mar 18, 2010, 03.48am IST
Article Comments (37)

HYDERABAD: A 15-year-old girl was set on fire allegedly by three men
who attempted to rape her at a house in Sai Nagar near Kushaiguda on
Wednesday. The victim, a class VI dropout, suffered 60 per cent burns
and is battling for life at Gandhi Hospital.

Malkajgiri assistant commissioner of police (ACP) P V Padmaja said:
"As per the statement of the girl, three persons (all bachelors) tried
to rape her at a house in Sai Nagar and when she resisted their
attempt they set her ablaze. The incident took place around 11 am."
Locals informed the Kushaiguda police about the incident and she was
shifted to Gandhi Hospital.

The victim stays at Padmaraonagar with her parents. Her father is an
auto driver, while her mother is a domestic help.

The girl and her friend used to frequent a tea joint near a three-
storied building in Padmaraonagar when two bachelors staying in the
building befriended them, the ACP said.

"On March 9, the victim left home without informing her parents. A
missing case was registered at the Chilkalguda police station by her
father on the same day. The girl said she had gone to Vijayawada on
March 9 along with three persons. The trio used to frequent their two
friends residing in the three-storied multi building at
Padmaraonagar." the assistant commissioner of police said.

The victim refused to reveal information on when they returned to the
city and the whereabouts of the three persons. Special teams have been
pressed into service to arrest the culprits, the ACP said.

A case was registered under sections 307 (attempt to murder), 342
(wrongfully confining a person), 363 (kidnapping) and 376 (rape) r/w
511 of the Indian Penal Code (IPC), Kushaiguda inspector A Muthyam
Reddy said.

Girl set on fire for resisting rape attempt
Article Comments 37

girl set on fire
Ajay US 18 Mar, 2010 04:49 AM

I pray that this 3 culprit gets caught soon and get enough punishment.
Atleast for 15 years each.Kalpana Chennai 18 Mar, 2010 04:34 AMOh My
God!zenith coimbatore 18 Mar, 2010 03:54 PM

so sadkavita hyderabad 18 Mar, 2010 03:40 PM

why this girl has gone with that person its her mistake as well,
without telling her parents see what happen she is the only
sufferingsohail hyderabad 18 Mar, 2010 07:46 PM

she is just a childrox fiji 18 Mar, 2010 02:02 PMevery one want to
have sexMohan-US USA 18 Mar, 2010 05:59 PM

No wastage of money and time.... this should be closed in 15
minutes... drag them to a public place and get the crowd to throw one
stone each.... end of the story and a GREAT "case study"Anmol
Bangalore 18 Mar, 2010 05:29 PM

The punishment should be more seviour for rapists, and those who
attempt to rape.Kiran USA 18 Mar, 2010 05:29 PM

This is nothing new in India. Basically, a way of life. It's always
girls from the poor families get raped by the better offs. Rarely,
perpetrators of the crime get punished. Police are more than willing
to bungle the report for bribe. This is our great culture. I'm glad to
be out of jungle rajChandan Bangalore 19 Mar, 2010 02:11 PM

Pls don't comment if you can't resist/rectify. Kindly pls don't come
back to India again.sai bang 18 Mar, 2010 05:06 PM

there is no way of punishing just by killing the three guys infront of
all is the solution next time no guy should repeat such kind of
attemptsfahad Pakistan 18 Mar, 2010 04:56 PM

They should be hanged till death in the middle of the townvishal pune
18 Mar, 2010 04:45 PM

where is the so called education of Indian Parents these days,gaurang
US 18 Mar, 2010 04:39 PM

i dont think there are chances of them not being caught,but i would
pray that they are brought to justice and given a life term for
attempt to rape and attempt to murder. i fear they may end up free
considering the fact that the victim comes from a poor family and our
legal system favors rich oneskavita hyderabad 18 Mar, 2010 03:50 PM

its a girls mistake as well y she has gone with that person without
telling her parents and now see who is suffering feels so sad for
her.Nadeem Amsterdam 18 Mar, 2010 03:46 PM

There should be an "Eye for an Eye"norbert ksa 18 Mar, 2010 03:23 PM

they must hangDeepak Vizag 18 Mar, 2010 03:21 PM

This again tells us that India is not safe for women. I pray that
justice is done to the girl though chances are bleak.Vishal Beijing 18
Mar, 2010 02:56 PM

Its absolutely horrible and shameful to hear such stories in today's
day and age. Who should we blame? Men, women, society, or the govt.?
anita bangalore 18 Mar, 2010 02:31 PM

going to vijayawada from hyderabad without informing her parents.
hm...this is how kids get into trouble. the people who put her on
flames needs to be punished.Ravi hyderabad 18 Mar, 2010 01:57 PM

Culprits should be punished severely.Aslam Dubai 18 Mar, 2010 01:35 PM

I pray to god that this 3 culprit, Get punishment for the Law as well
as from the God too..Prakash Bangalore 18 Mar, 2010 01:31 PM

Kill those people ........david singapore 18 Mar, 2010 01:29 PM

Really these 3 culprits should be hangedPrafull mumbai 18 Mar, 2010
01:19 PM

I wonder why the girl has,or by whom the names of the 3 have been
witheld.SURESH Mumbai 18 Mar, 2010 01:00 PMâ€Å"On March 9, the
victim left home without informing her parentsjgkmfmb dutidfgjk 18
Mar, 2010 12:53 PM

give the culprits death sentence. Life for life - they should give
their life for taking the victim's life.jadeja India 18 Mar, 2010
12:38 PMthis only happens in india jay hindMurali-Devavrata Bengaluru
18 Mar, 2010 12:37 PM

While culprits should be brought to justice and given death penalty,
there is no doubt that our cultural values are being degraded due to
Western influence. Girls are taking too much liberty with their
freedom and are suffering. Freedom comes with a price. We should think
about this.nitu hyd 18 Mar, 2010 12:31 PM

what the hell is going on in hyd? law should be so strict dat such
cases would never repeat. god know why such people think of raping a
child(doesn't mean that they can have in view of adults)samuel london
18 Mar, 2010 12:30 PM

I hope the three idiots don't have any political connections nor are
they from influential families otherwise such cases are swept under
the carpet and police would call it an cooking stove accident or even
suicide attempt.Vincent Thailand 18 Mar, 2010 12:02 PM

Since the victims is surviving, the culprits will soon be caught and
here-in lies a chance for the guardians of law and order to set an
example. The three perpetrators should be castrated and their
photographs published in newspapers. Let us remove the blindfold over
the eyes of Statue of Law !Vikrant Melbourne 18 Mar, 2010 11:46 AM

Why girls born in India?Sana Mumbai 18 Mar, 2010 11:02 AM

It's sad that this happened but what amazes me the most is that its
still happening. If not in Hyderabad then probably in some other
city.rahul Pune 18 Mar, 2010 09:45 AM

castrate the culprits and parade them naked to be stoned...javeri
mumbai 18 Mar, 2010 09:28 AM

Our Indian legal system has not generated any fear in the minds of the
offenders. they can do anything they want and walk free. By the time
our law takes its cource they might die their natural death. Go back
to the law of the jungle.Tooth for a tooth and eye for an eye. No FIR,
No Report. Burn themhari india 18 Mar, 2010 09:09 AM

kill them

Rape Ruckus
Mar 9, 2010, 12.00am IST
Article Comments (3)

On the eve of International Women's Day, Chief Justice of India K G
Balakrishnan came up with a strange suggestion. Addressing a meet on
justice for rape victims, the CJI said that "due regard" must be given
to the wishes of a rape victim if she wants to marry the rapist or
give birth to a child conceived following the crime. The CJI's
statement sends out mixed signals. It almost makes it appear that
marriage is an alternative to punishment for perpetrators of rape.
Indeed, it could have the unfortunate effect of minimising the
seriousness of rape which is a fundamental violation of a woman's
body. Besides, it does not take into account that rapes can occur
within marriages too.

The courts or the state shouldn't have any say on the course of action
that a rape victim intends to take. It is paternalism - something that
the CJI has accused activists and lawyers of - to decide on behalf of
rape victims. What should be of utmost importance for law-enforcing
agencies is to ensure that rapists are convicted and handed the
maximum possible punishment. At present, rape figures in India tell a
sorry story. According to some statistics, only one in 69 rapes is
reported, and out of these the conviction rate is a pathetic 20 per
cent. Law enforcement agencies should be looking at ways to increase
the conviction rates as well and put in place conditions where victims
feel comfortable to report rapes. This is a big ask. Let's not deflect
from the real task at hand by suggesting marriage between a rape
victim and the perpetrator.

Uttar Pradesh tops list of child rape cases
PTI, Mar 4, 2010, 05.04pm IST

NEW DELHI: Uttar Pradesh tops the list of States and Union territories
with the highest number of 900 child rape cases in 2008 followed by
Madhya Pradesh and Maharashtra.

According to the latest data by the Ministry of Home Affairs for three
years, cases of child rape continue to rise as a total of 4,721 cases
were registered during 2006, 5,045 in 2007 and 5,446 in 2008 across
the country.

Police have arrested 5,489 people in 2006 for their involvement in
such crimes, 5,756 in 2007 and 6,363 in 2008.

Madhya Pradesh registered 892 such cases, Maharashtra (690), Rajasthan
(420) and Andhra Pradesh (412) in 2008, the data said.

A total of 411 such cases were registered in Chhattisgarh, 301 in
Delhi, 215 in Kerala, 187 in Tamil Nadu, 129 in West Bengal, 106 in
Punjab and 104 in Tripura, it said.

Whereas, Gujarat has registered 99 cases, Karnataka 97, Bihar 91,
Haryana 70, Himachal Pradesh 68, Orissa 65 and Goa 18.

Teen girl, who alleges rape by Maoist, shot at
IANS, Mar 5, 2010, 12.04pm IST
Article Comments (21)

RANCHI: A teenage girl was shot by Maoist rebels in Jharkhand's
Latehar district for slapping rape charges on a Maoist leader, police
said Friday. The victim is struggling for life in a hospital here.

Maoist guerrillas shot three bullets into 17-year-old Anju Kumari on
Thursday. She was injured critically and has been admitted to the
Intensive Care Unit (ICU) of the Rajendra Institute of Medical Science

"Anju sustained three bullets in her stomach. Her condition is
critical," a doctor said.

Anju was shot when she was riding her bicycle in an area close to
Latehar railway station. She was stopped by three motorcycle-borne
Maoist rebels including the Maoist commander Pappu Lohra, who
allegedly pumped three bullets into Anju's stomach and then fled,
police said.

According to police, Anju was shot because she was bold enough to
lodge a first information report (FIR) against Lohra for abducting and
raping her.

"Anju was shot because she dared to raise a voice against Maoists. She
had lodged an FIR against Pappu Lohra. Anju had accused Pappu of
raping her for two days in a jungle after abducting her," a police
official told IANS.

According to local journalists, Maoist rebels alleged it was the
handiwork of the police to lodge fake rape charges against Lohra.

Teen girl, who alleges rape by Maoist, shot at
Article Comments 21

rape maoist
Rajagopal Delhi 05 Mar, 2010 03:37 PM

Dont arrests maoists criminals just shot dead them immediately on
seeing. Thee is no sin doing so. The Government shold try aerial
survey of maoists and bombard their hide outs without hesitation to
prevent further strikes.R india 05 Mar, 2010 03:36 PM

If it was a fake charge, why did this goonda shoot the girl? Maoists
might have started off as rebels for a true cause, but now they are
nothing but terrorists. I hope these rapists and murderers get their
just desserts from the police and para military forces.Raj Mumbai 05
Mar, 2010 03:27 PM

But its a handiwork of Maoist Rebles to Kill a 17 Year
female...Doesn;t he feel anything kill a Teenage Girl..Aks USA 05 Mar,
2010 03:15 PM

Now a days there are far too many pseudo naxals and all are fake and
they intimidate the tribals into submission and loot the police and
others. They do not have ideologies but only money minded looters.She
was a stumbling block and fear of getting exposed made them to stop
the voice, so was shotBrijendra Russia 05 Mar, 2010 03:05 PM

What is going on in India? Is it a jungle raaj or some law exist
there.After reading this story u realy feel shame being an Indian. A
young girl shot three times by so called mesihah of poor and dalits
started raping their daughters and sisters.These same people will take
arms against them.vishnu satara 05 Mar, 2010 03:04 PM

No commnets here...... Indian are busy cursingNarendra Singapore 05
Mar, 2010 02:39 PM

Well this news shows without doubt that at the end maoist does not
follow any philosophy. In the beginning they like others are
pretending to protect and be voice of poors. Now they are aiming their
gun to them. It makes me wonder Pappu Lohra is, a coward who tried to
kill innocent girl.rkr459 05 Mar, 2010 01:43 PM

It is high time ,the national Government take military action to get
rid of this radical elements for once and all.P.R.S.Bhasker Hyderabad
05 Mar, 2010 07:18 PM

I fully agree with the comment of sri Rajagopal of Delhimlechha
timbuctoo 05 Mar, 2010 06:59 PM

... that PCAPA leader Lalmohan Tudu had led an attack on their camp @
Silda, with a Maoist dalam. Later, the police claimed there had been
no attack on Silda, that Tudu was most probably killed in a false
encounter. Ironically, Tudu was the person who had fought for
elections to be held in Lalgarh.Siva TN 05 Mar, 2010 06:03 PMI

s this maoism,Very sad,these group appear like terrorist and criminals
without any causeAnant Nigeria 05 Mar, 2010 06:02 PM

Maoists stand against oppression of the weak by others.faisal dhahran
05 Mar, 2010 05:49 PM

The maoista are nothing but criminals and hoodlums out killing and
stealing. They are thugs terrorising the local populations. They MUST
be destroyed without any mercy for they are only killers and murderers
of the worst kind.Nitin Belgium 05 Mar, 2010 05:46 PM

What is the goverment doing? They cant even ensure the security of a
victim from indian terrorists, how can anybody trust them with
security of the country???Vivek NY 05 Mar, 2010 09:28 PM

Now the so called human activisits will not utter a word. India should
extensively use army againsts these murderers and these hyppocrate
human activist in jail. With the army strenght we have shouldn't take
more than a week to clean up India from these people.aa del 05 Mar,
2010 10:01 PM

Jaago Bharat Jaago.jeff Australia 06 Mar, 2010 06:05 AM

This is shocking to the whole world when india is looked upon as
developing emerging economy gettinon par with the world. It is truly
shockingren bhopal 06 Mar, 2010 11:15 AM

shoot thiose murderers and rapists right at their head!!! no need for
enquiries to police....kill those bastards immediately!!!Anil Delhi 06
Mar, 2010 12:34 AM

I won't name names here but this has been going on around my village
since decade.. Maoist just to slight people's respect kidnap unmarried
girls do whatever they like with her and send them back to their
parents.sajan dub 06 Mar, 2010 12:20 AM

How you can tell the rape alligation is right. Now a days it is a
passion of women to make false complaint to molestation and rape also
IPc 498 for looting money from man.Anant Nigeria 05 Mar, 2010 11:36 PM

Maoists stand against oppression of weak by others.

Father, daughter gun down 2 over incest taint
Pervez Iqbal Siddiqui, TNN, Oct 6, 2009, 12.06am IST

LUCKNOW: For once, panchayat members of a western UP village were
thrown on the defensive. On Monday, a man and his daughter — cleared
of charges of having incestuous relationship — picked up a gun and
fired at the panchayat members, killing two persons, one of them being
the accuser.

According to the police, they did so to ''punish the panchayat members
for their failure to act against the real culprits.''

The drama was reported from the Kambhore village, Bijnor. The village
panchayat had earlier ordered 'expulsion' of the father-daughter duo
following charges of incest against the man, which reportedly turned
out to be baseless. Agitated that the panchayat did not give them a
chance to defend themselves, the two reportedly reached the panchayat
gathering and opened fire after the members refused to initiate action
against those who had levelled false charges against them.

According to reports reaching the police headquarters in Lucknow,
about a month back, Haseenuddin, a resident of Kambhore village under
Kotwali police station of Bijnor approached the village panchayat and
accused a local resident Akhtar of sexually abusing his daughter
Fatima alias Fato for the past several years. Haseen maintained that
he was an eye-witness to the crime along with another local resident,

The panchayat then summoned the duo and questioned them in public.
Though the two said they were innocent, the panchayat ordered them to
leave the village forever.

As a result, Akhtar sold off his house and shifted to a relative's
place in an adjacent district. On September 23, Akhtar happened to
meet Afzal and enquired about the charges that he and Haseenuddin had
levelled. When Afzal denied that he was even aware of any such
accusations, the latter forcibly took him to the house of the
'panchas' to testify before them.

According to the police, on the request of Akhtar, a panchayat meeting
was convened on Friday last where he and his daughter were absolved of
the charges. However, when the panchayat members announced that there
was no need for action against Haseenuddin, Akhtar whipped out a gun
and fired indiscriminately.

Father, daughter gun down 2 over incest taint
Article Comments 19

Manoj India 06 Oct, 2009 12:37 AM

Think the whole article is quite confusing.Bobby Dayton 06 Oct, 2009
12:48 AM

very good. very great act. The panchs should have acted against
Haseenuddin, but if they did not, then Akhtar didnt do anything by
taking law in his hand. I hate all those preaching about not taking
law in ones hand, just because there would be no difference between
accuser and accusee. But if its once moral at stake, one should do
such things. Bravo.Sajid USA 06 Oct, 2009 12:50 AM

The man should not have taken the law in his hands. But there is great
need in India to do something about those who accuse others falsely.
Many times, police accuse someone and when that man is found innocent
after many years, the police officers who framed the charges are left
alone without any charges against them. There are serious errors in
Indian laws.Shalin Agrawal Ahmedabad 06 Oct, 2009 01:07 AM

I agree with what Akhtar did. If justice is denied then the person may
have the right to take such action if the allegations are of these
level. Panchayat members should take rational decision and law should
be equal for all. VD US 06 Oct, 2009 01:17 AM

This is eerily similar to 'A time to Kill' movie though victims are
different. The 2 should not charged with any crime and should be set
free. The Panchayats other members should be kept in prison. What
agony thefather and daughter must have gone thru when these charges
were leveled against them. Thankfully they were all muslims otherwise
who knows what would have happened on the name of religion.SVR Chennai
06 Oct, 2009 01:20 AM

I don't see anything wrong in it. Failure to give justice, will result
in these kind off actions. Pradeep Bangalore 06 Oct, 2009 01:23 AM

For once, the justice is done. Kudos to the father for taking the
action.Vivek Mumbai 06 Oct, 2009 01:53 AM

It is shocking that the Panchayat acted in a haste on such a sensitive
matter. The report can be true or false but if true then the panchayat
seems to have done a grave mistake by not correcting the 2nd
time,which needed punishment. The sad part is our law doesnot permit
normal humans to do justice and the law would not take action too. The
honest man is suffering today and a collusion of evil minds are
striving. A shock treatement is the only solution that can bring
balance to this crude world but at what cost is for us to judge.
Nilesh California, US 06 Oct, 2009 02:08 AM

Older "Panchayat" judiciary system should be abandoned and must be
taken over by court. It's very must needed as foolish, biased and non
democratic people make the decisions lives of innocent people.Rajendra
Boston 06 Oct, 2009 02:35 AM

Good job by Mr. Akhtar. These Panchayat people should learn to behave
more responsibly.Sanjana Blore 06 Oct, 2009 03:25 AM

Guess this is something our Judges need to be reading for not
supporting Justice rather being baiased.CoolStuff Delhi 06 Oct, 2009
04:30 AMGreat job! Same way we need punish dirty politicians as
well...Umesh USA 06 Oct, 2009 06:12 AM

That is what happens when you don't have redress to your grivences.
Indian government and politicians need to wake up - they are cheating
Indian people for so long and Indian people are running out of
patience. Before people take law in hand for speedy settlement and it
becomes wild west, Indian courts need to hand out speedy
justice.Sharad US 06 Oct, 2009 06:26 AM

The panchas deserved to die. Who gave them the right to punish a
family with an evidence thats so flaky and how come when time comes to
make the family get even by just some punishment to the perpetrators
they step back. This is just a clear case of victimising one family
and though killing in righteous civil society is bad, in this case, I
would say it was the best choice. The art of living in a community is
something we all think is leanrt naturally. We focus on learning
english, science, maths. Nagrik shartra and laws of living in the
society and rights in the society and duties of the society to its
members are things that need to be taught. In villages (and even in
cities) these kind of bitching keeps happening, any family needs to
lean on how to keep their weight and still be responsible. Well, that
would be a start towards creating a utopian soceity.Prashant Dhiman
USA 06 Oct, 2009 06:50 AM

What is wrong about picking a gun when nobody listens to the reason?
he did a great thing, I would have done the same in those
circumstances.shyamal Missouri, USA 06 Oct, 2009 07:23 AM

Well done. If you bring false charges, you deserve bullets. I also
think that if an innocent person is incarcerated and later the real
criminals are found, the innocent person must be compensated Rs 1
Crore for every year of incarceration from the state budget. This is a
penalty for the state government and the police authorities who got
him imprisoned. Today the person just gets a dry apology from the
state.Manoj Delhi 06 Oct, 2009 09:27 AM

I think he did the right thing to take the law on his own hands as the
panchayat's law was already denied for him. This man is innocent and
actions must be taken against 'so-called-panchs' in this case!vimal
noida 06 Oct, 2009 10:48 AM

Bravo, Kudos all words are small in front of there brave act. This is
the true definition of save owns pride. Hats of to you.Joseph Dubai 06
Oct, 2009 11:39 AM

Compliments to the Duo - Father and the daughter, when the Law does
not protect them what other choice you have ?..The panchyat system
does not function, so doesn't Indian Democracy. It is a Mafia System !
Sixty years have passed since our independence and aren't we still
convinced ? Our politicians in Delhi are sleeping and filling their
pockets ! They care a damn about you and me - the common poor guys.See
where China has gone in 60 years. They are the 3rd World Economy from
nothing. And we Indians ? We talk about 10% growth but where is it
reflected, for the Politicians and for the rich of course ? Children
are being raped and burnt (latest moda) and the culprits behind the
political heavyweights are walking free. Where is justice, where is
the law to protect you,me our defenceless children and where are the
bloody netas ? It is time we woke up Indians and do away with all
these useless systems and traitors of the country. We fought for
freedom from British and our leaders died in vain. At least we were
not that bad under the foreigh rule I guess ! India needs a Hitler -
one man one rule. If you don't deliver you perish. Even dictatorship
is bad, but at least we would have punished those bastards and brought
them to book. With this system at least 60 years hence, we will have
advanced much more. Otherwise with the present system of governance we
will see other nations passiing by us, injustice will prevail in walks
of life and our own government will walk on us as it is happening.
Will I say "jai ho" or "Jai no?"

3 Indian-origin men in UK jailed for raping kin
PTI, Oct 18, 2009, 01.20am IST
Article Comments (3)

LONDON: Three Indian-origin men, residents of Cardiff, who repeatedly
raped a woman in their family for several years have been convicted
and sentenced to long years in prison.

The three persons sentenced by the Cardiff Crown Court are the 27-year-
old victim's step-father, step-uncle and brother-in-law. The step-
uncle and step-father are illegal immigrants, and will deported at the
end of their sentences.

The 55-year-old step-uncle, and 50-year-old step-father were jailed
with minimum recommended terms of 20 and 15 years respectively, while
her 27-year-old brother-in-law was jailed for 12 years.

The step-uncle admitted before the court that he was the father of the
child conceived when the victim was 14 years old. He was convicted of
seven counts of rape, three of indecency with a child, and one of
indecent assault.

During the hearing, the court was told that the victim's ordeal began
at the age of five when she was raped by her step-uncle. She became
pregnant at 14, but was locked in a wardrobe so that visitors would
not see her condition.

Prosecuting lawyer Marion Lewis told: "The girl was already seven
months pregnant when she first saw a doctor about her condition. When
the baby was born, the girl's parents told friends and neighbours it
was their own, before flying their daughter to India for an arranged

Judge Patrick Curran told the step-uncle: "Not content with your own
sexual abuse on her, you encouraged the others to treat her like an
unpaid and unwilling prostitute. You all then involved yourselves in a
group rape on her."

The judge said the continued presence of the two older men in the UK
was "detrimental to public interest."

The prosecuting lawyer said the girl was frightened and also believed
her mother knew what was going on.

"When aged 14 and still a pupil at school, her stomach was expanding
and a scan revealed she was seven months pregnant," Lewis said.

"Her mother beat her all over her body apart from the face with a
curtain pole. She was hidden, sometimes in a wardrobe and visitors
were told she'd gone back to India."

The victim later told the jury that her mother beat her when it was
found out that she was seven months pregnant. She said her mother had
not believed her when she had tried to tell her that she was pregnant
by a member of her own family.

"When she went to the doctors, checked me out, she realised I was
seven months pregnant, she still didn't believe me. She hit me with a
rod and stuff like that so she never believed me".

"She always said to me 'they can't do that to you, they're your
family, they can't do it' but unfortunately they did," the victim

The step-uncle admitted in court he was the father of her child, but
told the jury he had not found out until much later once DNA tests
were carried out.

After the sentence was pronounced yesterday, detective inspector Chris
Mullane of South Wales Police said the victim had been "extremely
courageous" in approaching the police.

Reader's opinions (3)

Praful R Shah Houston, Texas USA 20/10/2009 at 10:55 am

What type of animals are they. They should be hanged.
uma shankar vajpeyi london 20/10/2009 at 08:47 pm

Pamela Weber Quinn England United Jingdom 20/10/2009 at 10:05 pm

Thank goodness this young lady had the courage and support from her
fellow Britains to report this dreadful crime. I think her mother
should have also received a custodial sentance, for beating her
daughter abusing her. The trauma this young lady has endured will be
with her for a very long time. I know she will recieve help and I wish
her all the best from hence forth.

NRI held for raping minor daughter in Punjab
IANS, Mar 28, 2009, 09.32pm IST

JALANDHAR: In a third shocking case of its kind in the country in the
last two weeks, an NRI father was arrested by the Punjab police on
Saturday for allegedly raping his 13-year-old daughter.

A medical examination has confirmed the rape of the minor who lives in
a village in Phillaur town, 40 km from here.

Surinder Singh, who works in Dubai and has three children, was
arrested following a complaint by the victim and her mother. The
victim, the eldest among her siblings, later recorded her statement
before a magistrate, accusing her father of raping her.

Police officials said the father raped his daughter on Thursday night
in an inebriated state. He had come to his village on annual leave.

Earlier this week, a 20-year-old girl from Ajnala town near Amritsar
complained to the police that her father, who is a Bharatiya Janata
Party (BJP) leader, had raped her for the last eight years.

The father, Ashok Taneja, was arrested by the police after registering
a rape case against him.

Last week, the Mumbai police arrested a 49-year-old businessman who
allegedly raped his daughter for over nine years on the advice of a
black magic practitioner to get "rich quickly".

Reader's opinions (1)
mohammed waseem uae 29/03/2009 at 01:47 pm
i have no need to show in public this kind os cases.just take
them in silent place and encounter to all.

AMRITSAR: Emboldened by the story of the Mumbai sisters who went
public against their rapist father, a 21-year-old college student in
Amritsar has gone to the police with her own horror story about her
father, a local BJP leader, who she accused of raping her for eight

The man, arrested on Wednesday night, was on Thursday sent to 14-day
judicial custody. Police booked the accused, also a well-off
businessman, under section 376 (rape) of IPC. Medical examination of
the girl confirmed sexual abuse.

A student of Guru Nanak Dev University, the ravaged girl drew courage
from the Mumbai victims and spoke of her trauma to relatives from her
mother's family. They then took her mother into confidence.

"I want this man to be put behind bars or shot," the girl said, crying
bitterly. "My father, for that's what I have to call him, has crossed
all limits of human behaviour. He started sexually abusing me since
childhood. Whenever I resisted or refused to bow down to his wishes,
he would threaten to burn me with acid or kerosene."

Wiping tears with her black dupatta wrapped around her face, she said,
"I told my mother that if they (Mumbai victims) can, so can I. All my
relatives have supported me in this. After all, it can't get more
sinful than this, can it?"

The traumatised mother said, "My husband would always find a pretext
to send me away so he could be alone with our daughter. He never
allowed both of us to leave home together. In fact, I am forced to say
that my husband had physical relations with other girls in the family
as well."

The accused, who complained of failing health and admitted himself to
a hospital, in his defence, labelled his daughter and wife
"degenerates with bad character.

"My daughter had good character till two years ago but ever since she
joined university she fell in bad company and got full support of my
wife. They just want me sorted out because they're after my property,"
he said, his face covered by the blanket on his hospital bed. "I am
hurt at the allegation. I would not have minded had they blamed me for
beating them but this is something I cannot do in my wildest dreams."

BJP spokesperson Som Dutt Sharma blamed the Congress for defaming them
"during election time."

"To make matters worse for the victim, the whole family, including her
younger brother, slept in the same room. Day in and day out the girl
would have her rapist by her side, she said. Can you imagine that?"
said a neighbour.

Another rapist dad exposed, this time in Amritsar
Article Comments 68

Praveen Bangalore 26 Mar, 2009 10:52 AM

If the Girl is saying true then kill these kind of persons is the good
judgement for this case.Swapnil Bangalore 26 Mar, 2009 10:59 AM

Party with difference. It certainly has different stance on
incest.Manoj Delhi 26 Mar, 2009 11:01 AM

Shame on you TOI. This is a pathetic attempt from you to please your
masters in Congress. Where did BJP figure in all this? Were his deeds
known to the world so that BJP could sense that this is what he was
doing to his daughter? He is a normal criminal and should be treated
as such. Somebody occupying a block level position in BJP is being
highlighted by you as if the whole BJP is involved in this crime.
Journalism at its worst... selective sensationalization is the worst
kind of yellow journalism that can be perpetuated. Seems, in this
election not only political parties, even media is going to scale new
depths of irresponsible journalism. Dare you to publish this
comment.shakti singh chundawat bangalore 26 Mar, 2009 11:06 AM

incest is in vogue! :-)Ram Bangalore 26 Mar, 2009 11:08 AM

An individual person is doing rape and why is the news dragging his
party here. DO you want to communicate that BJP leaders are like this
raping their daughters? Please communicate responsibly as it is one of
the core principles of journalism. The title is misleading and
irresponsible.hashimi chennai 26 Mar, 2009 11:09 AM

india has become the incest capital of world... shame..!!San Delhi 26
Mar, 2009 11:18 AM

What is the cause for all these nuisances happening these days. We are
so detoriating that In some cases Father(s) are raping these own
daughters ??? Hell or worst than Hell... Who is to blame ??? Do not
you think TOI or so called Media, Films, TV Serials are not
responsibile for instigating or provoking our Lust... Whenever you
open any site (even News Sites like TOI), so many articles to boost
your SEX life or blah, blah... you find on screen. What is all these,
We want to know the news of world. Not how to enjoy our sex or boost
our sex. Are you (TOI) a sex boosting magzine or a nice newspaper.
Shame on you.. Kindly think judiciously and act accordingly. Do not
sell sex just to Be No 1. Peter Vaz Oman 26 Mar, 2009 11:24 AM

Shame after fame is disgusting and the sermons of these top leaders
must by exposed to a great lengths beyond borders by TOI.Are these
people barbarians or monsters of the stone age? SC must create a
stringent laws or life imprisonment or stoned to death by the public
for these cases. Nupur Pune 26 Mar, 2009 11:33 AM

Now is this Indian Culture?? Are these men out of their minds!! Dont
they have any conscience!! 8 years, 9 years...its disgusting!! We go
aorund telling the world that we are a culturally rich country...and
we have cases in Mangalore where men are hitting women..n now this!!
Totally horrifyingsabir bangalore 26 Mar, 2009 11:34 AM

Whats happening, what is moral policing doing now. Is this the
religion teaches. Come-on wake up. Come-on learn the basics of family.
a n k | t az, usa 26 Mar, 2009 11:35 AM

Its a DISGRACE, I am totally DISGUSTED!!!! We Indians speak highly of
our family and cultural values and this just goes to shows how
misinformed and clueless we are. Its a shame. bloreboy bangalore 26
Mar, 2009 11:40 AM

where was the mother all the while...she was a passive participant in
this crime & needs to get her share of the punishment.. also...these
stories if exploited for 8 years are coming up now...why not 8 years
back...the victim needs to provide proper details as to why they were
party to the game till nowRam Bangalore 26 Mar, 2009 11:40 AM

The title needs to be changed immediately. Do not name the political
party the person is affiliated to. The political party is not
preaching the person to do rape his daughter. What is the neccessity
of this news in the front page. Please act responsible.Harshal India
26 Mar, 2009 11:45 AM

This can be congress conspiracy as its just Election time, Election
commisioner should take a note of this.Ram Bangalore 26 Mar, 2009
11:48 AM

Are the COngressmen raping their mothers ? WHy drag the party's name
when an Individual is doing a criminal act. IRRESPONSIBLE reporting.
STOP THIS NEWS channel first.Naresh Dhiman Kuwait 26 Mar, 2009 11:51

He and other such fathers should be punished with extreme limits so
that this becomes a examplary punishment which will deter others from
commiting such crime.Sasi Muscat 26 Mar, 2009 11:54 AM

Its disparagement!!!!!!!!! The civic should be heedful. This is
utterly deplorable.Nirmal Jain Bhopal 26 Mar, 2009 11:55 AM

Shame on these people, who talk of sanskars to others claiming
themselves as the sole preserver of Indian Sanskriti (Culture), by
vandalising pubs and terrorising the lovers on Valentine's Day. Will
not be surprised if he is also supported as Varun Gandhi was for his
wrongdoings.Vishal D'Souza Bangalore 26 Mar, 2009 11:58 AM

Each & every small incidents of BJP leaders are highlighted on
National Media, but it's a great achivement by the BJP to win
elections even after all media houses are writing against them. Really
BJP a great performer, shame on media which is tarnishing natinal
partiotic party BJP's image in each & every aspect. But BJP's
popularity growing day by day throughout the country.Vishal D'Souza
Bangalore 26 Mar, 2009 12:00 PM

Each & every small incidents of BJP leaders are highlighted on
National Media, but it's a great achievement by the BJP to win
elections even after all media houses are writing against them. Really
BJP a great performer, shame on media which is tarnishing national
patriotic party BJP's image in each & every aspect. But BJP's
popularity growing day by day throughout the country.Vaibhav S Pune 26
Mar, 2009 12:00 PM

Sick....Anonym Bangalore 26 Mar, 2009 12:01 PM

I do not think BJP endorses this too as part of their agenda like you
people say BJP endorses communal or whatever. This is a criminal case
and should not be related to any political party while referring. The
headline is quite flashy and diverged. Nikesh Kumar Shukla Delhi 26
Mar, 2009 12:02 PM

Yes!!! This is only possible in the BJP the party with the difference.
They are so called and self declared custodian of Indian culture and
the hinduism.Bindu Bangalore 26 Mar, 2009 12:07 PM

It is absolutely revolting to read these stories, which one gets to
read too often now a days. Where is the world headed to; why is it
that the daughters are not being spared by their own fathers; where
will they find comfort and safety if not their own homes? At least one
positive aspect is that the girl had the courage to come out in the
open - women/girls have to raise their much that the
judiciary takes some strict measures against such dastardly
crimes.Rammy Sydney, Australia 26 Mar, 2009 12:10 PM

Amazing what the other readers are saying: the girl has to prove why
she kept silent? Why bring up the political party the member is
associated with? Must be election ploy? Simply amazing! Its takes a
great amount of courage to report rape, let alone incest. That is even
more so in a country like India. What will happen to this girl? Who
will marry her? Despite all these she still had the courage to tell
her relatives and all we can give her is suspicion and disdain. Where
are our morals and compassion? We should be ashamed to treat this news
this way!Riz Sydney 26 Mar, 2009 12:11 PM

funny, TOI is pro-BJP ; pls dont be mislead..SRG Mumbai 26 Mar, 2009
12:12 PM

Can't expect better from a BJP leader! All of them are either rapist
or provoke rape and murder!KRRamesh Chennai 26 Mar, 2009 12:13 PM

All this cultural damage is happening in India after the Invaders
occupied Indian Land and dominating with the Political clout. Original
Indians are now suffering! The foreign elements to be thrown out of
Our Country!ckg bangalore 26 Mar, 2009 12:15 PM

If there is anything which can be called as National Shame then it is
such news which make us hang our head. Earlier we used to eulogise our
family culture and tradition and criticise the western about there
nuclear mind, when i read such stories i feel that we are no better in
our moral degradation than others. As far as naming a political party,
it is true that one single person can not be equated with the party as
a whole, but it is necessary for the party involved to immediately
initiate action and come clean. Indian USA 26 Mar, 2009 12:17 PM

Everybody has got something to do in their day to day life. Does that
mean whatever he/she will do in their personal life will be the
resposibility of the organization he/she i working for? I am a
congress supporter but ,where is BJP involved in this shameful
incident and what they are suppsed to do in this case? Sivaram S
Pondicherry 26 Mar, 2009 12:19 PM

In continuum to the comment from manoj, delhi :: Mr. Manoj - what do
you mean by he is a normal criminal ? and you seem more bothered about
the mentioning of the party than the degree of crime involved.
However, I agree that such articles should not be featured on the
first page as it would corrupt innocent minds (if any). Though am an
atheist, I hate it when such fellows (the accused) blame it on
astrology or religion.G S wagle bangalore 26 Mar, 2009 12:22 PM

It looks like there is a well knitted propaganda to show BJP in poor
light. No need to say that all in congresswallahs are "Mahatmas".
Poeple have not forgotten the infamous Tandoori Murder episode in the
heart of the capital of the country.All the electronic media now a
days showing nothing but BJP Hatred.Is there an end for this?I find
the journalism at its worst.meeran singh ahluwal Patiala 26 Mar, 2009
12:22 PM

why you are taking only one instance of BJP leader raping his own
daughter, almost 65% of BJP leaders and workers are regularly doing
this insane thing since years but so far no one of them has been
arrested why coz of politicalconnections as every body is aware
of..the govt and public should bring this to show the world thier
cheap and vulgar mentality and they claim to rule the nation.....ha !
ha ! aks USA 26 Mar, 2009 10:16 PM

Thats very sickening to say the least. If daughters are not protected
by their own fathers who else will. Where does it leave the poor girl?
Why is the mother quiet on this? Castrate all this people who cannot
control their urges..Rape is a beastly act and that too on their own this guy must be sick and insane and should be treated
and put behind bars and asked to work for social welfare organisation
or home for the aged but do not leave this man on the roads for God's
sake. As it is there are so many criminals in many disguises roaming
around and we can ill afford another.vishwas india 27 Mar, 2009 12:37

this is nothing but a propaganda againstt BJP, earlier it was Ramsene,
then Varun and now this case which has nothing to do with BJP. voters
should not be misled with such news.Vishal Agrawal Mumbai 27 Mar, 2009
12:48 AM

It is really sad that girls are treated so badly in our country. More
girls should come out to these victims. India needs a women revolution
but of course not legally like reservation etc because that would only
empower them to do injustice. Something like misuse of dowry act by
girls. India is in a very interesting times.Salim usa 27 Mar, 2009
01:06 AM

Hang Him nowLucas Podolski Chennai 27 Mar, 2009 01:06 AMTOI has just
put a word mentioning BJP. Instead of talking about the main topic,
most of you are talking about TOI or politics. This only shows the
narrow mindedness of most of our people.Tally World 27 Mar, 2009 01:08

Sad to see that people are more worried about BJP rather than the
girl. Are you all out of your minds ? A young girl has been physically
tortured by her own father for years. Think about what she must be
going through. These kind of crimes go beyond party lines, castes and
nationalities. Go look up human rights and dignity in a dictionary.Raj
Delhi 27 Mar, 2009 01:09 AM

The act is reprehensible and the man deserves a severe punishment.
However, I think the act is completely personal and BJP should not be
dragged into it. At the same time, if BJP were smart, it would
immediately issue their own condemnation of the act. That they have
not done so shows how poor the party's PR is. I am a Congress
supporter (simply because it seems to offer better leaders and it
doesn't invoke the Hindutva message again and again). But I am a
bigger believer in democracy and for any democracy to function, we
need more than one competitive party at the national level. BJP has
failed miserably in being that party (more so post Mahajan-Vajpayee
era). I sure hope they get their act together and offer us a thriving
alternative to the Congress. Somnath New York 27 Mar, 2009 01:17 AM

Why doesnot TOI ever print the Accused side of the story? TOI should
start making another section for Rapist dads, women's newspaper,
domestic abuse. The media, people, laws every one beleives women are
innocent in this world and men are the only culprits, in fact women
drive men to do the crime.Emanuel D. Samuel Toronto, On. Canada 27
Mar, 2009 01:29 AM

Child molestation is a common phenomenon all over the world. The weak
preyed on by the strong; betrayal of trust; misplaced affection. In my
experience, it is a sickness based on a deviant love and will not stop
regardless. The main reason is the closeness of the parties and the
high percentage probability it will never be exposed. It is not
considered wicked, immoral, rather rationalized by the existence of an
immense, albeit misplaced, love.Dinkar London 27 Mar, 2009 01:37 AM

what's wrong with this world? An Indian London 27 Mar, 2009 02:04 AM

My heart goes out to this young girl and the other victims in her
family . As a nation we should support her , applaud her incredible
courage for speaking out , give her and the other victims all the
support we can and make sure the monster who perpetrated these crimes
is brought to justice . Anyone who seeks to support this monster who
dares to call himself a '' father '' on this site or any other form of
media should be condemned by right minded viewers . This is a horific
crime that deserves punishment of the stiffest kind although no
punishment would ever be enough for what this man has done . Amit
California 27 Mar, 2009 02:04 AM

As sad as the story is, I am glad that women are finally speaking up
about the abuses that they have to live with. Bravo for getting this
matter out. I share the daughters sentiment that this rapist should be
either jailed or shot. Also, Dear Editor, it is laudable that you are
printing these stories, I would however be wary or partisan politics.
In my opinion, it was completely unnecessary to state the rapists
Party Allegiance - this will only help more with vote-bank
politics...just my 2 cents..Rajkumar Patil Toronto 27 Mar, 2009 02:05

What the hell you guys are talking about? A monster father raped her
daughter for a decade, and instead of pressuring the govt for harsh
punishment for such crimes, you people are takling and playing
polytics here. If allowed and encouraged, many thousands of such
victims will come forward, who were pressured and threatened by their
own family members for years. Such criminals do not belong to any
religion, party or country. They do that hinious crime with all their
conscious and do it repeatedly, to those who are most weak and
vulnerable elements of the society:the children. I hate the so called
Sharia law, but when i read such stories, i really feel that these
criminlas should be treated and punished unhumanly;Jatin London 27
Mar, 2009 02:06 AM

I am shocked after this news in India we are finding new ones
everyday, our law should set very tight punishment for this kind of
crime so it can be a learning lesson for all Fritzl's growing in India
& anywhere in the world, Its shame we have got 2 of same kind in our
own country. Its a shame people are still talking this as Congree v/s
BJP war guys please grow up and is this what we are going to leave for
our future generations....Pls all should get together and do sumthing
about victims and help them in every way to restabilise thier life, if
they are not safe in their own houses then we can forget about
everything else..We need to first look at the core of the problems why
are people turning to their daughters as a sex object and I would say
their other family members are equally responsible for this crime who
knew about it.Jasbir Singh Sydney 27 Mar, 2009 02:10 AM

It is a normal Indian psyche, everything they do have link with
politics. Criminals can use any platform. Shankaracharia was charged,
many swamis went to jail, things happened in Aasa Ram's Ashram, Many
Mullahs or Granthis were also found engaging in immoral activities.
The real thing is getting corruption out of Police and court so that
people feel free to approach them. A website should be started where
anyone can list their problems and seek help. Pedophiles are using
everything in India including SMS, internet etc but they are going
undetected.Prasad Gowda London 27 Mar, 2009 02:17 AM

Dear editor, I am ashamed by the way your reporter has reported this
incident. There is no need to mention ones political inclination to
their personal life and the sins commited at a personal level. I am
sure a corrupt politician is as bad as this sinful man and surely you
can find many in every political party in the country!RK B'lore 27
Mar, 2009 02:27 AM

This is rediculos. There is not much to do with BJP in this case.
There are lots of MLA/MPs are horrible things including raping kids of
things. This is the part of thier culture. You go and investigate the
poltical leaders, you will find much more worst than these. There
stupid ppl here they just go on BJP. I would say, only BJP will do
better govt in the current situation for India. Rest all the parties
are hopelessinderjit U.S.A. 27 Mar, 2009 02:27 AM

Per story, the father is a FAMOUS LEADER, the obvious question will be
of what PARTY, so,the media was bound to name the party,same is with
VARUN GANDHI, he shot the lime light because of BJP, otherwise such
speeches of communal hatred are the ORDER OF THE DAY in India and WHO
CARES without the name of the party. This incident should be condemned
by all including sitting MP from Amritsar who belongs to BJP. Margo
Russia 27 Mar, 2009 02:43 AM

The burning question is MENTALITY and it has nothing to do with any
political party. Lack of openess leads to crime. In school teachers
should explain about child abuse and how kids should react. Education!
Education! Education!Thats sad .... Switzerland 27 Mar, 2009 03:04 AM

Small girls being raped by their fathers uncles or grandfathers. Its
happening since ages and its very hard to control. Small girls are
afraid to come out in public and make noise. Mothers wants to keep
their family name.. In India its happening more then we think. Shame
on you india 27 Mar, 2009 03:05 AM

It seems Indian culture died long back. What a pity thing happening in
our society. Where is human rights group? parents should see that no
tears in his /her daughter. It is very urgent for the govt to form
commission to take the task. where is relation, what relation. now
everything is dissappearing .It is difficult to express anything about
this ghastly incidents.Vikram Bangalore 27 Mar, 2009 03:23 AM

India should become the first country to award death sentence for
raping minors.Raghu Prabhu melbourne 27 Mar, 2009 03:25 AMKeep
politics out of it. Let the police do their job with out any
interference. If the man has done the worng thing, let him be tried in
the proper manner. Does not matter if he is BJP or
Congress.P.M.G.,pillai Mannar, AllaPUZHA KERALA 27 Mar, 2009 03:43 AM

Because no one care for any basic ethic principles.Male memebers in
home must maintain a distance between thefemale members to prevent
these unwanted relations being developed unknowningly.Code of
behaviour for homes also is very essential to maintain proper
relationship. Original Indian India 27 Mar, 2009 03:43 AM

This is no lies, as it were a lie this man would have not complained
of chest pains. Chest pain complaints are only made by the guilty who
know its imminent of them going to jail. This man is a monster and a
threat to public safety, imagine how could someone ever do this to a
minor and keep doing it. He will surely rot in hell but the big
question is will he rot in life or get away with it? This is indeed a
rarestr of rare cases and the punishment should be rare and extreme;
Gallows or bullet (his daughter or should I say victims wish).on the
fence canada 27 Mar, 2009 04:05 AM

Well I truly sympathize with the girl and accused should be hanged to
death if proven so....but we should also spare a thought that the
accused could well be a victim of conspiracy till it is not proved.
This girl and mother may not be getting along well with this
man....could be family dispute or whatever and they could have got a
perfect plot from Mumbai event to settle the score with
India, we seem to take woman's word over man pretty easily....this
social attitude can easily be exploited by some. Just a thought. Umesh
Korea 27 Mar, 2009 04:08 AM

For last few times these type of news are becoming common in developed
cities like mumbai etc....But I heard same news earlier many times
from Punjab only.......Even in 1999 I heard such type of case first
time the place was Punjab & I was shocked even I did not believe for
sometime..but the truth...Ranjan Singh Noida 27 Mar, 2009 04:16 AM

I hope this is one of the rarest incident ever heard. I am also of the
opinion that it haas nothing to do with the party but then why every
time BJP leadres blames other's for such incidents.. Take on the
example of Mr Varun Gandhi..Who other than Varun would have courage
and guts to challenge that whatever that is being shown on news
channels have been docotred..Insane...the party stand by him. Isn't
that shows the kind of ideology these political parties have...I think
these incidents are coming in otice at the right time because you know
whom you are choosing for next 5 years...atleast you know the one you
have voted for is a rapist who raped his own daughter so atleast you
need to take extra care for your relatives..nick sharma melbourne 27
Mar, 2009 04:30 AM

Everyone over here is think from political aspect. And nearly 70%of
the messages are related to politics. what about that girl who has
been in great pain bcoz of this in human behaviors. Think like a human
being not like insane. J.S. North America 27 Mar, 2009 04:47 AM

Hold your breath mothers of India, there are more rapist fathers
hiding under a screen of pretense of being good fathers. There is a
need for mothers to talk and discuss confidential matters with their
daughters. Do not be afraid to ask if their Dads have made seductive
approaches or even rape them. Do not say it cannot happen to my
daughter and do not blame your daughter if such an incident happen. It
is all the fathers' fault and lack of disrespcet. India I believe, has
become the rape capital of the world. It is a shame to learn that
another father who should have known better raped his daughter for 8
years. There are a lot more incidents in India, which have not been
exposed because mothers and daughters depend on fathers to take care
of them. I storngly urge the government to set up shelters to take of
abused women and children. So much young lives are being destroyed and
so much of innocense and purity are being lost. People who commit such
crimes against the young should be severely punished. ABC Mumbai 27
Mar, 2009 07:28 AM

Related to this incident, I want to express one incident happened. To
one girl (my relative girl) after her marriage, her father in-law
asked her husband (ie his son) to go abroad soon after marriage. After
he (son) went abroad, one day (that time her mother-in law went to
market)that father-in-law asked her to obey for him. When she denied,
suddenly he removed her dress and touched her private part of the body
and told her that he arranged marriage for his son with her, only for
he liked her and loved her. she shouted and cried. Finally he left and
told her, "if you tell this to my son or to my wife, I will separate
you from my son. My son believe whatever I tell him". After that he
did not allow any of her relatives to talk with her in person (its
like house arrest). After one year, his son (that girls husband) came
from gulf country. The girl told all this incident to him. He was
shocked and he did not take any action. Just asked her a promise not
to tell this to anybody. Because all their property is in his fathers
name. If he go aganist his father, he may not give any property to
him. In India many girls are suffering like this. God only can save
the pity girls...... KS INDIA 27 Mar, 2009 08:23 AM

Now the man has become like an animal. Because of these few animal
men, the whole men will be looked with doubt. THEY SHOULD BE BOOKED,
MONTHS. What a shame to the country?A Ray Burdwan, WB 27 Mar, 2009
08:29 AM

Such incidents give us a glimpse as to how many other weak-willed
humans are hiding. And even worse, there are definitely some mothers,
too, who rape their sons and are under cover. The latter are very
rarely exposed because of the inability of the man to speak out. Men
can never be accepted in society as victims to women. Just imagine
their dolour.Abdullah Malaysia 27 Mar, 2009 09:10 AM

The role of mother is very crucial in preventing this kind of
incidents. After a certain age, mother should keep their daugthers
away from unwanted mingling with males.madhulika hyderabad 27 Mar,
2009 09:50 AM

This is the most heinous act did by a father.It is really shameful
that these types of father do exist in our society...............There
is not a single place on earth which is really safe for girls untill
unless they will come out on their own and onus the responsibility of
themselves and their siblings.This is the only possible solution of
this great ever existing problem..........So girls come out of your
limitations and bondages and be ready to make this world feel that
girls are really capable and competent enough to face all these

Businessman raped daughter for 9 years
Sandhya Nair , TNN, Mar 20, 2009, 02.34am IST
Article Comments (179)

MUMBAI: The sprawling township of Mira Road on the outskirts of the
metropolis woke up to the bizarre news of the arrest of a businessman
for allegedly raping his daughter over nine years, drawing macabre
parallels with Joseph Fritzl of Austria who raped his daughter over 24

Ashok Chore (name changed), aged 60, was arrested by the Mira Road
police on Wednesday night from his apartment for sexually abusing his
daughter over nine years on the advice of a `tantrik' who promised
that doing so would make him prosperous.

Arrested along with Chore was the tantrik, Hasmukh Rathod (60), who
posed as an astrologer, and Chore's 47-year-old wife, who has been
charged with abetting the heinous crime. The three were remanded to
two-day police custody by the Thane sessions court on Thursday whereas
the cops had sought a 14-day remand.

The traumatised girl, now 21, had been silent about her ordeal all
these years but mustered the courage to approach the police after her
father, she alleged, attempted to rape her 15-year-old younger sister
on the advice of the same tantrik.

The elder sister, who works for a private firm in Mumbai, had become
the target of sexual abuse at the age of 12 'when Rathod had advised
Chore to have sex with her in order to prosper. Chore and Rathod were
neighbours in Vile Parle. The maternal uncle of the young girls, who
helped them lodge a complaint, said his sister had been brainwashed by

Chore first sexually abused his elder daughter in 2000 when his
interior designing business failed. According to police, Chore used to
undress his daughter in front of his wife and have sex with her.

The fact that his business did not flourish did not prevent Chore from
continuing with his depraved act. Rathod apparently had great
influence on the Chores. He had, in 2002, managed to get the couple's
consent for sex with the elder daughter.

Chore is believed to have borrowed large amounts of money for his
business. Last November, when Chore once again confided in Rathod
about his failing business, he was advised to have sex with his
younger daughter, a class 10th student. The couple is believed to have
even taken her to Rathod's Vile Parle home for sexual encounters to
avoid the elder daughter's wrath. But when the elder daughter learnt
about it last week, she told her maternal uncle. Both the girls are
currently with their maternal uncle and grandmother.

Chore's advocate Edgar Braganza alleged that his clients were being
framed by the two siblings. ``The elder of the two daughters has
complained that she was threatened and sexually exploited by her
parents and Rathod since 2000. This girl is 21 and till date there has
been no complaint or resistance by her. Is it possible for a father to
rape a daughter for nine years and live under the same roof? Where is
the question of medical examination of the accused since it's not a
recent incident?'' Braganza argued in the court.

The police told the court that they would require a 14-day remand as
there is a possibility that the accused may be connected to a gang
involved in prostitution. (With inputs from Nitin Yeshwantrao)

Dev Kumar Dutta Mumbai 19 Mar, 2009 11:37 AM

Why're you hiding the bastard's name? Publish his picture and name
ASAP...we want to see him gaurav mubai 19 Mar, 2009 11:42 AM

This is psycho cause, people doing and thinking like this are mentally
ill. The main cause of this type scenario is arisen due to illegal
porn sites and movies which not make us mentally ill but also produce
adverse effect on our social life gaurav mumbai 19 Mar, 2009 11:43 AM

This is psycho cause, people doing and thinking like this are mentally
ill. The main cause of this type scenario is arisen due to illegal
porn sites and movies which not make us mentally ill but also produce
adverse effect on our social life vaidya pune 19 Mar, 2009 11:44 AM

kill them in public...sudhir Ahmedabad 19 Mar, 2009 11:44 AM

It would be of interest to see the opinion of the self appinted
protectors of Hinduism know about the Tantrik. Would they oppose it or
would their blind love for anything remotely hindu make them shy away
from even uttering a few words against such incidents.pramod nagpur 19
Mar, 2009 11:45 AM

aise father ko zinda rahne ka koi adhikar nahi hai aur jo 'tantrik'
aise suggestions deta ho use to beech churahe par zinda jala dena
chahiye.Mehrunnisa Farooq Qatar 19 Mar, 2009 11:48 AM

Is our Indian Culture Slowly dying ? Betiyan to baap ki Izzat thi, aab
baap hi izzat se khilwad kare. This is the worst of human crimes, on
daughters fathered by himself, the parents should be punished
severly.ilyas bharuch 19 Mar, 2009 11:49 AM

Just kill this bastered in publicS W Kamath Secunderabad 19 Mar, 2009
11:54 AM

These type of cases should not be considered as isolated ones
involving depraved individuals, if we really hope to think of India as
a modern nation in the 21st century. Why can't we have the will, at
least in such cases, for demanding the death penalty for the rapist.
Imagine if this is the scenario in Mumbai, one shudders to think of
what would be happening in rural areas. Mr.Rationality USA 19 Mar,
2009 11:55 AM

If the tantrik would have told the father to parade his daughters in
the nude, he would have done that too!. That is why I always say
11:56 AM

Stupid belief. These may be an excuse for that fellow also, who knows.
Really some of the absurd stories are slowly coming out due to media
coverage etc. Put them all the accused behind the bars for lifetime
without parole or leninency including the 'tantrik'. Shruti Ggn 19
Mar, 2009 11:59 AM

What a shame!!! These people should be hanged.Mark India 19 Mar, 2009
12:02 PM

He should be hanged to death..this is devil's job,there could be
several such cases in India,but going undercover...due to fear of
shame and disjust.puvathi pukuvathi ksa 19 Mar, 2009 12:04 PM

send this bastard also to Austria,his very own elder brother
JosefFritzl it seems both has come out from the same tunnel, shoot
them from guns from point blank range so that thier parts get blown
out , send them to the gallows,they will spoil the younger
generation ...... or dont publish such reports please!!!!!!Anuj U.P 19
Mar, 2009 12:05 PM

what a shame.... these animals should be hanged to death in public ..
they defy all morals that any society is biult on... if girls aren't
safe in thier own homes.. where else will they be safe. ?J.Mukund
Hyderabad. 19 Mar, 2009 12:07 PMSuch type of persons should be given
capital punishment. Hang them untill death.naro delhi 19 Mar, 2009
12:09 PM

This extremely appalling behaviour is surely comparable to the hedious
josep fritzl crime,send them,both husband & wife to life
imprisonment.No sane person would have an incestuous relationship
wether at the advice of a 'tantrik'or not.It defies nature and only
extremely sick minded people would resort to this kind of behaviour.I
do hope that the courts will mete out the same punishment to both
husband/wife duo as she is equally gulity of abatting this heinous
crime against her daughters.Deb Kolkata 19 Mar, 2009 12:11 PM

This types of most hatred crimes are increasing every day and it can
break the social bonding and trust and thus can result in complete
failure of a state very soon. These filthy criminals should be
punished in a way that others do not dare to think about these in
future.harees dubai 19 Mar, 2009 12:12 PM

i wonder why didnt u guys put the names of the parents n the
tantrikAsh USA 19 Mar, 2009 12:22 PM

This so sick, as bad as it can get. How can a parent do this to his
own flesh and blood just for the sake of money. He should get life in
prison.RK India 19 Mar, 2009 12:22 PMPlease Plublicly trash this
bastard and kill him...Thameem Nairobi 19 Mar, 2009 12:23 PM

Why still we are believing the astrology? If you want to get rid off
your problems, work hard and pray to god. Not to individuals like Sai
Baba, these are thieves, we are living in 21st century, they are just
spiritual guys they can't do anything. can they live for ever? why we
need to trust them? Stop. Believe yourself. Jyoti Sunnyvale, CA 19
Mar, 2009 12:25 PM

How disgusting! We need to spread more awareness among young children
in schools about matters such as incest. Maybe each school can have a
special cell which helps students who face such problems in their own
homes and escalates the case to the police if necessary.Theresa Dubai
19 Mar, 2009 12:25 PM

I was traumatized this last few days hearing the details of incest
case in Austria. Hearing of a similar story in my own city really
makes me sad. I'm sure there are many more cases which are not
reported due to social stigma. I pray that reading about these stories
other kids will break their silence and expose these evil deeds of
their parentsCapt. Brian Fernandez Bandra, Mumbai 19 Mar, 2009 12:29

This is what happens when we make wealth and money the one and only
principle in our lives!RG Mumbai 19 Mar, 2009 12:30 PM

Found guilty, hang this guy..this is really bad.Kamal Gurgaon 19 Mar,
2009 12:31 PM

Totally Disgusting, This old businessman of 60 years should be hanged
for this heinous crime. Zaheer Australia 19 Mar, 2009 12:33 PM

hard to swollow..some tantrik say something and this dumbhead spoils
the whole meaning of fatherhood. its a shame that todays women has no
burrow left to hide. whom do they trust now?shabana Bangalore 19 Mar,
2009 12:33 PM

It is even more revolting and diabolic than Josef Fritzl's case.
Fritzl is diagnosed as psychotic and a pervert and he did all that in
a secret way till he was caught. Unbelievable greed and perversion is
evident in this case than just superstition.Any adjective will fall
short to explain this heinous act. Both the parents are a classic
example of inhumanity and a shame for term "parent".we can only
imagine the mental state of the child in this case whose trust and
faith in her parent as well as life is so ruthlessly breached. There
is no punishment which is enough for such a punishment
is perhaps the easiest way out for the accused shabana Bangalore 19
Mar, 2009 12:33 PM

It is even more revolting and diabolic than Josef Fritzl's case.
Fritzl is diagnosed as psychotic and a pervert and he did all that in
a secret way till he was caught. Unbelievable greed and perversion is
evident in this case than just superstition.Any adjective will fall
short to explain this heinous act. Both the parents are a classic
example of inhumanity and a shame for term "parent".we can only
imagine the mental state of the child in this case whose trust and
faith in her parent as well as life is so ruthlessly breached. There
is no punishment which is enough for such a punishment
is perhaps the easiest way out for the accused vicky uae 19 Mar, 2009
12:34 PM

how come he raped his own daughter .this guys hast to punished with
sex torture to them.jalaluddin palekar. UAE. 19 Mar, 2009 12:37 PM

Have islamic Laws to protect the society from such Evil acts.
Jalaluddin Palekar. UAE.mmalbari Kochi 19 Mar, 2009 12:37 PM

When there is a question of Rape and Molestation, We Indians cannot be
behindPinaki Sengupta Rishra 19 Mar, 2009 12:37 PM

A law should now be framed and exemplary punishment to be given to all
the accused so nobody will even dare to do such a crime ever.santosh
sinha beijing 19 Mar, 2009 12:38 PM

It can happen only in mumbai in Indiasaj thomas dubai 19 Mar, 2009
12:39 PM

crime against women are increasing ,,,,and there is no one to voice
against it ,,,,,,,its the poor and the oppressed who are left to the
fate... no one.. is there to raise voice where are the moral police
who raised so many issues ....about culture ,,,, i have decided not to
vote ...anyone ...who are good for nothingGaurav Delhi 19 Mar, 2009
12:40 PM

Before any thing is done to the father i want that bloody, Tantrik to
be punished. And also the father must be given as harsh punishment as
any one could ever getKobita Bangalore 19 Mar, 2009 12:44 PM

How disgusting can one get. Really pains me to note the extent one can
go to gain wealth. The culprits should be punished appropriately.Avi
Australia 19 Mar, 2009 12:45 PM

Highly obnoxious act. Shame on such dads.ajaz bangalore 19 Mar, 2009
12:47 PM

This is totally inhuman the father and the tantrik should be burnt
alive is totally inhuman JJJJJ Pak 19 Mar, 2009
12:48 PM

This is what you are indians..anne India 19 Mar, 2009 12:49 PMGive him
sever punishment so that in futher no father can do this. This is
really a shame. How can a father do this to his own flesh. I request
and appeal all the girls come forwards when this things start
happenning with them.dont keep quite, it is shame, but instead of
suffering, better to complain and get rid of this devil fathers. It is
big shame when mother who support her husband.We read this all
happening in foreign country, but this thing happening India. Now no
one will come to protect this types of issues which is against our
culture.Sabeera Mumbai 19 Mar, 2009 12:53 PM

This rapist dad should be hanged along with his wife. Severe
punishment should be given to both. In Mumbai all this sort of things
happens. Even many daughter in-law's are suffering from issues like
this. I am one person from Mumbai faced by father in-law (but somehow
saved myself), but my husband did not believe. Many pity girls are
living in the world. dr.anupam rajasthan 19 Mar, 2009 12:57 PM

that tantrik and father must be hang on,how anybody can even think
just for moneydr.anupam rajasthan 19 Mar, 2009 12:57 PM

that tantrik and father must be hang on,how anybody can even think
just for moneydr.anupam rajasthan 19 Mar, 2009 12:57 PM

that tantrik and father must be hang on,how anybody can even think
just for moneyshoukat firfiray NRI 19 Mar, 2009 12:57 PM

both (culprit and tantrik should be given capital punishment (hang to
death in public) for lesson to masses. There should not be any lapses
in passing the verdict from judiciary. Rajehs Chennai 19 Mar, 2009
12:58 PM

He is not a human being.....I think may be an animal..Only animals do
see such a difference in sexfaisal dhahran 19 Mar, 2009 01:01 PM

What if this is NOT true? What if the girls wanted money or something
from their parents, like to marry someone they did not like, etc? Why
are people being areested just on the word of someone without any
evidence???? If this is another case of lying, like so many are in
India, then the parents should use every legal means to sue the
government and the police.Nikit Mumbai 19 Mar, 2009 01:01 PM

This sought of people humiliates our society and even the man kind,
they should be sentenced to death and especially the tantrik in
public. These guys are humiliating all of us.dr.anupam rajasthan 19
Mar, 2009 01:01 PM

that tantrik and father must be hang on,how anybody can even think
just for moneydr.anupam rajasthan 19 Mar, 2009 01:01 PM

that tantrik and father must be hang on,how anybody can even think
just for moneyRaj Chennai 19 Mar, 2009 01:05 PM

Those men should be cut downAN INDIAN Abroad 19 Mar, 2009 01:05 PMT

his person his wife and the "TANTRIK" all are animals, they should be
punished severely. Shame on him for committing such a heinous crime.
No lawyer shoudl help these people and no police officer should
support them. Shame on them for bringing disgrace on India and Indian
people.s. wadhwa new delhi 19 Mar, 2009 01:06 PM

The laws in our country need to be flexible enough to warrant instant
punishment in such heinous cases.Ramanpreet Delhi, India 19 Mar, 2009
01:09 PM

such a shame full incident. it appears we indians have lost our
cultural values which is always being cherished by others. i am so
disappoited with this factRaj USA 19 Mar, 2009 01:11 PMSick.R.KUMAR
NCR 19 Mar, 2009 01:14 PM

photographs of such crimnals should be published prominantly in the
media and then the punishment should be --hanging them upside down in
a public place till they die and their dead bodies thrown to dogs &
vultures.DONALD ALMAS DUBAI 19 Mar, 2009 01:17 PM

THE CORRUPTION INVOLVED. H K Bhargava Bangkok Thailand 19 Mar, 2009
01:18 PM

Do not bring religion into this. The Girl's Father needs to be
executed as he actually performed the crime. Tantric comes next and
also needs a VERY HARSH punishment.S.L.J.Gallyot Mumbai 19 Mar, 2009
01:19 PM

No leniency should be shown to such a pervert. The crime is worse
because it has violated the safety and security that a father brings
to his family. the tantrik is equally guilty and should face the same
life imprisonment.We have perverts masquerading as tantrics and
swamis. The Parivar has been obstructing the introduction of the
Superstitious practices bill for obvious reasonsNitin Valecha Delhi 19
Mar, 2009 01:21 PM

The case presents the levels of superstition(s) that are still
embedded in our society and the influence of it on even the educated
masses. The culprit(s)(Father & Tantrik) should be given the severest
punishment as it defames and clobbers the "Parent-child" relationship
and falls inot the "rarest of rare" category.Dr. M M Tiwari Raipur 19
Mar, 2009 01:28 PM

No words to condemn the henious crime.How can one even think such
inhuman acts that too from literate persons.Where our society is
leading to?There may be many other cases which are not reported.This
is just superstition,no Tantrik can ever do anything except befooling
persons to make his money.Exemplary punishment must be given to
Father,Mother and the Tantrik. Qaari Mumbai 19 Mar, 2009 01:29 PM

The problem here is two fold. Tantrik or occultist can not be banned
because many people have faith in them. These people may feel deprived
of the gain if there is ban on practices based on supernatural powers.
All the money spent on CHANDRAYAN project is waste if the BABAS can
bring moon on palm of your hand. But the BABAS can be watched for
criminal acts. Second problem is INCEST. This can be controlled simply
if the police support is guarunteed which is for what ever reason
absent in many cases. The victims in many cases may not have sense,
mental or physical strentgh to oppose the criminal act. Neighbours
surely become aware of such acts if it continues for long time. They
don't intervene for not buying trouble in case there is no
administrative support to them. To have sympathy for victim may cost
dear and that is the reason no one comes near. Kunal Pune 19 Mar, 2009
01:29 PM

Horrible! Put aside culture stuff, it just shows to what extent a
human mind can go for some selfish benefitssahil india 19 Mar, 2009
01:34 PM

please let us know the name of that criminalAlihusain Mira Road 19
Mar, 2009 01:34 PM

It is a shame for Mira road residents to have such type of acts. As a
resident of Mira Road I feel that these people should be punished in
public by the people. Abdul Azeez Ullal Mangalore, Karnataka 19 Mar,
2009 01:35 PMOnly animals can do like this. Hang this bitch as soon as
possibleamer hyd 19 Mar, 2009 01:36 PM

The case has to be interogated as soon as possible Courts should not
delay such a things for long periods. Which can give rise to such a
criminals as per the tantriks this are very foolish people spoiling
lifes of innocent people for their sake and livelibood if they found
guilty their heads must be cut in public. so that any body with
thoughts of gaining powers or wealth should not believe such a
tantriks who are ready to murder the humanity.Ghanav sydney 19 Mar,
2009 01:41 PM

its funny hw a freakkin antrik can mislead a father to rape his own
daughters... to hell with him n da couple. dese guys hav no right 2
livekasmur hyderabad 19 Mar, 2009 01:41 PM

he should be fired in front of the public.he is not a father he is a
mad dog and mad dogs should not be left kill himSanjit Bal Gurgaon 19
Mar, 2009 01:42 PM

Such a person does not deserve a trail or has any right to recourse of
law. This person deserves the death penalty for completely depraving
the image of a parent and runining the life of his own daughters.
Callous, self centered and depraved people like him and his wife have
no right to live in civilized society.Tauseef Ahmed Delhi 19 Mar, 2009
01:43 PM

Such a shameful incident like this not only put a dent in our culture
but also made mockery of father child relation. A person like him
should be hanged in public so that nobody else could even dare to
think about such henious thing.Rajesh Qatar 19 Mar, 2009 01:43 PM

These crimnals must be punished as per Islamic Law (Shariyah). stone
them and cut the head publically for the lesson of people like Saudi
Arabia. Saudi Arabia has the lowest crime (tend to zero) in the world
due to Islamic Law. Thanks to all om US 19 Mar, 2009 01:44 PMhow some
one can rape some one for 7 this possibleAbhishek MEERUT
19 Mar, 2009 01:50 PM

Ofcourse such a man should be hanged to death if he has committed such
a heinous crime. But, addition to this, Common man has his/her mind
set to believe such incidence to be absolutely truth without any
proofs and evidences and at once get sympathesised with the victim.
Truth must be Explored first!!vinod pune 19 Mar, 2009 01:51 PM

the father should be shot at sight..Samad Khan Bangalore 19 Mar, 2009
01:53 PM

This is sick!! Rape your own child for greed of money. Indian society
was known for its modesty, principals and values.Somewhere along the
recent way, we Indians have lost it all and have become a very
greedy,insensitive and a shallow society. Why take the man to court??
Hang him at Ghandi chowk along with the tantrik.SMF Dubai,UAE 19 Mar,
2009 01:52 PM

India should adopt the Sharia law(Islamic law).This is the only answer
to such henious crimes.People will think twice even before they think
of such evil acts. Think about it India.It will make difference.This
is the true Law.Neel Gagan New Delhi 19 Mar, 2009 01:53 PM

This is just rubbish...they have not done it just becoz Tantrik has
told..or for money...root cause may be non-fullfillment of sexual
desires. It is shameful that Mother was knowing all about it....and
she did nothing to stop it... Bose Delhi 19 Mar, 2009 02:02 PM

If this comes out to be true ultimately, then the only punishment for
these beasts is a single shot at the back of their
head....PERIOD.....Its sickening to the stomach...SMF Dubai,UAE 19
Mar, 2009 01:52 PM

India should adopt the Sharia law(Islamic law).This is the only answer
to such henious crimes.People will think twice even before they think
of such evil acts. Think about it India.It will make difference.This
is the true Law.Neel Gagan New Delhi 19 Mar, 2009 01:53 PM

This is just rubbish...they have not done it just becoz Tantrik has
told..or for money...root cause may be non-fullfillment of sexual
desires. It is shameful that Mother was knowing all about it....and
she did nothing to stop it... lenna kanpur 19 Mar, 2009 01:55 PM

for everything..ranging from terrorism to lack of morality...we
Indians tend to blame the this episode of a father raping
his daughters...let us blame western countries
again.....ha..ha........ha...zh7272 south africa 19 Mar, 2009 02:04 PM

Apply sharia law to correct these greedy and crook so that we can be a
good example to the whole world.neha india 19 Mar, 2009 02:05 PMdnt
knw hw a father can do this to his own daughters.. Amol Bangalore 19
Mar, 2009 02:09 PM

This is an example of what these tantriks are doing to our society.
Why not pass on a law to make this illegal, so these practices can not
be carried out. There are thousands of tantriks today in any city of
India. Also, another thing that happens is astrology, although not
this bad, but it definately influence people to take decisions based
on some stupid stars, we should come out and ban these things once and
forever from our country. People are openly allowed to offer advise
without any scientif support. This is stupid and if we tolerate this,
its going to make us look like real stupid society. I am sure there
are thousands of such cases in various forms hiding throughout India.
Time to pass a law to make this illegal.Peter Oman 19 Mar, 2009 02:10

Signs of our times and deeds of these parents are difficult for us to
digest in reading this article.Life for those kids will be deplorable
and unthinkable.It's a crime before God and Humanity and TOI must
publish the photos of these culprits.Money is still God for many until
this day.How come are these fraudsters caught by the media during the
Global recession period?Nanoti S.K. Nasik 19 Mar, 2009 02:12 PM

It is really shamful that father is raping his own daughters.
Undoudtebly, only punishment for the father should be hanged to death.
In the same time, all sympathy should be extended to the victims, who
have suffered such a crime in their early childhood from their own
father.Rashmi Bangalore 19 Mar, 2009 02:12 PM

This is a ridiculous thing , how one can even think of doing this. he
should be punished as hang till death that also in front of
public.Girish Delhi 19 Mar, 2009 02:13 PM

We should not let this guy die simply by hanging or shooting him. We
should first break his 2-3 bone here and there and then cut his flesh
at multiple places. Remember, do not let this guy. Keep breaking his
bones but keep him alive so that he beg for death.J D Barman India 19
Mar, 2009 02:13 PM

is he a father and most astonishing that is he a human being or a wild
animal. He and his associates should not be forgiven and should be
rewarded with an appropriate punishment.INDIAN INDIA 19 Mar, 2009
02:15 PM

SMAMEFULL ACTS. isar mumbai 19 Mar, 2009 02:16 PM

Mulsim law is great on this count. India should adpot the mulsim law
against all such crimes for every such criminal irrespective of
religionR C SHAH MUMBAI 19 Mar, 2009 02:16 PM


HE SHALL BE HANGED UNTIL DEATHRahul Mumbai 19 Mar, 2009 02:16 PM

What a shame. Madhukar Bengaluru 19 Mar, 2009 02:17 PMBoth the father
as well as the mother should be hanged.Soumitra Noida 19 Mar, 2009
02:19 PM

burn his whole body with cigarette... give him antibiotics ... let
those wounds heal ... burn him again ... repeat it for the rest of his
life. Prakasam Bharat 19 Mar, 2009 02:21 PMHang that father, mother
and Tantrik, after whipping them for 90 days.sorry4victims Kolkata 19
Mar, 2009 02:24 PM

i m really sorry for the victims of such heinous crimes. Joseph Fritzl
in Austria can now at least hold his head high knowing that he is not
the only person committing such crimes. May God Help the world. May
Peace prevail.joson mumbai 19 Mar, 2009 02:27 PM

Only solution for Humanity .. An end to evil acts, an end to crime ,
and for a peace all over the world . , implement Islamic law.. Today
Saudi Arabia has the lowest crime rate .. owing to Islamic law
onlyIndian Dubai 19 Mar, 2009 02:29 PM

Sickening act. All the three deserve a killing by throwing stones at a
public place. No lawyer should take their case. TAHER EBRAHIM JEDDAH
19 Mar, 2009 02:29 PM

First collect hard evidence and proof him as he did this heinous crime
against his own daughters then only hang him along with his "TANTRIK".
Kumar UAE 19 Mar, 2009 02:31 PM

Why produce in court and creat tension in everybody. Please kill the
husband and wife.Indian Mumbai 19 Mar, 2009 02:33 PM

Error!!! this happened in Mumbai as says the headlines.. but the
article is begin with NEW DELHI: .. delhi is on tis reporter's mind
too much for such stuff?? Suman Kashyap Hong Kong 19 Mar, 2009 02:39

To, those advocating Sharia law, as per Sharia they need four eye
witnesses to prove a rape, which is very difficult to get. Hence if
Sharia is applied the beats will be more encouraged as there will
almost never be 4 people watching a rape.Surendran Middle East 19 Mar,
2009 02:40 PM

Extremely shameful for every Indian. This men-shaped animal must be
hanged until death alongwith his wife and tantrik. Government must
concentrate on finding such tantrik working throughout the country
which badly damage a community altogether.seema chembur 19 Mar, 2009
02:40 PM

Its realy horrible incident to see Father raping his own daughters
with his better half help How can mother of 2 tell her husband to have
sex with their daughter They both father and mother of the sibling
should be hanged Thats the best punishmentRafeeq London 19 Mar, 2009
02:48 PM

How long will tantriks and religious extremistis hijack us? Its ironic
and pathetic that even the educated people get trapped by these
senseless people. Give them a punishment no one ever can dare to even
think of commiting such crimes. Tabi Dubai 19 Mar, 2009 02:52 PM

Father, Mother & all other persons involved in this crime, should be
hanged till death that too in some public area. This will give a great
message to the other criminals.....Vijay Hyderabad 19 Mar, 2009 02:56

this kind of acts should be condemned and the culprits should be
punished. Our laws has to be changed so that people will not hide
behind the loopholes and escape from punishment. I request the
concerned authorities to wake up and take action againist them without
wasting much time.rene fernandez bahrain 19 Mar, 2009 02:58 PM

with reference to the rape of women in India, what has L.K.Advani/
Sonia Gandhi done to change the law ? Advani wanted to bring in
tougher punishments to the rapists. Why did he not push for life
imprisnment ? This issue must be raised in this elections and vote
ONLY for the candidates promise to support this legislation. We must
try to stop crimes against women/children AJAY BADIYAL NOIDA 19 Mar,
2009 03:09 PM

incedences like this will destroy relationship of father and
daughter.hussain mumbai 19 Mar, 2009 03:09 PM

three of them should be hanged till death....but other than this our
police should start strict action/investigation against such type of
tantrik ; there are lots in india...Ahmed Sharif Dubai 19 Mar, 2009
03:12 PM

These joseph fritzls must be awarded deaths. what kind of world we are
living in, ladies please beware of outsiders as well as insiders. THE
WORLD HAS CHANGED A LOT. In the name of faith it is an insult to
religion by these creepy TANTRICS.Shabu Dubai 19 Mar, 2009 03:13 PM

This is relly Shamefull for all indians and we are sorry for the
victims and we want immidiate actian agains this bastard no need to
put him in jail for years. he should kill by stones in front of people
and should be live telecast on all chanells then in future any body
even don't think like this . He want more money for whome ???? and
it's my requset to indian Govt give Authority to Victim Girls for
giving punishment to that bloody Tantrik .Shabu Dubai 19 Mar, 2009
03:14 PM

This is really Shamefull for all indians and we are sorry for the
victims and we want immidiate action against this bastard no need to
put him in jail for years. he should be killed by stones in front of
people and should be live telecast on all chanells then in future any
body even don't think like this . He want more money for whome? and
it's my requset to indian Govt give Authority to Victim Girls for
giving punishment to that bloody Tantrik .AH Syndey 19 Mar, 2009 03:14

I too have been dreaming of becoming wealthy for a long time. Does
this Tantrik also offer his daughter (or wife, depending upon who can
take it) for such services? When will people give up superstition in
India?sadeq Duabi 19 Mar, 2009 03:24 PM

Now we need to stop this type of crimes in our society, only possible
by beheading these criminals in front of public to make society aware
what'll happen before committing this type crimesAnonymously_Yours
Europe 19 Mar, 2009 03:28 PM

It is stunning that everyone seems to comment on how the accused party
should be dealt with. People have suggested overtly sadist cruelties
too, providing an insight into the natural mindset of the human
community. Oddly, no one seems to have mentioned any sort of monetary
help, psychological counseling or shelter and future support
commitment for the victims, one of whom happens to be at a tender age
below 18. Once again, it's exciting to note how frustrated and
carnally active the society is, given a chance to vent our anger, most
of us would turn into savage beasts to punish the guilty...yet few or
none would stand to help the deceasedShyam Noida 19 Mar, 2009 03:32 PM

The tantrik stuff has been added just to save the man from his crime.
It seems to be a ploy by his lawyer. I a sure there was no outsider to
instigate the accused.GSM MUMBAI 19 Mar, 2009 03:32 PM

Kill this man and tantrik. There is no other punishment for guys like
these. DEEPAK GHOSH FARIDABAD 19 Mar, 2009 03:41 PM

OFF. THIS MUST BE THE LAW NOW.Illur Iqbal Bangalore 19 Mar, 2009 03:42

Please do Insert a Burning Rod to the beloved Parents for doing this
CrimeRubi London 19 Mar, 2009 03:51 PM

What a shame!!I really feel sorry for the girl,this man should be
given such a punishment by law,that the whole world eyes will be open
and no one will dare to do this again after seeing the
punishment.sharda goregaon 19 Mar, 2009 03:56 PMcut his private part
completelyAnita Dsilva Dubai 19 Mar, 2009 04:06 PM

This is really a VERY SHAMEFUL act. Have we human beings lost our
moral values? to top it all, a Mother encouraging such an act gives me
goosebumps, a I am a mother of 2 girls myself but in my sane head I
would give up my life but save my children from such ordeal. This is
actually a SORRY state of today's world. GOD HELP US!!!SJ dubai 19
Mar, 2009 04:09 PM

I can only say that this is the result of getting in love with western
civilization...progress and modernization does not mean that we leave
our values & culture..incest is a normal thing in west as we all know
and sadly it is entering into our society just coz we feel that
whatever west does is good..we need soul searchingAmrit Lal Toppo
Ahmedabad 19 Mar, 2009 04:20 PM

This is absolutely shamful to the society,father is raping his own
daughters more than 3000 thousand time. he is not worthy to be called
father by his daughters. he should be punished. he has turned satan he
is no more human being. Amrit Lal Toppo Ahmedabad 19 Mar, 2009 04:20

This is absolutely shamful to the society,father is raping his own
daughters more than 3000 thousand time. he is not worthy to be called
father by his daughters. he should be punished. he has turned satan he
is no more human being. rajeev gurgaon 19 Mar, 2009 04:43 PM

This kind of crimes should be dealt with only one kind of punishment.
Take them in full public view, cut the pvt part of this man and the
tantrik into pieces and offer it to the dogs!! Hang the lady! The
entire activity should be lively telecast to prevail deterrent for any
prospective criminal!!!Mohammed bombay 19 Mar, 2009 04:49 PM

Tantrik said and father raped his own daughter for 9 long years..WOW.
even hollywood can't make this kind of sense less Movie it could
happen only in indiaReader Pune 19 Mar, 2009 04:51
PMSHAMEFUL.........Asim Ali Khan Jeddah 19 Mar, 2009 04:54 PM

No need to produce them before the court. Straight hang them. Dont
give time to investigate. Both the parents should be hanged till
death.Clive Kuwait 19 Mar, 2009 05:02 PM

I agree that the faces of Such criminals have to be shown in the media
as soon as their crime is established. Even their names should be
shown in bold. And they should not be hanged immediately. They have to
be tortured for years so that they repent for their crimeSrikanth Bhat
Chennai 19 Mar, 2009 05:03 PM

Rape, molestation, child abuse and many such in-humane acts have been
hitting the headlines of late. The legal proceedings get dragged for
years owing to the loop holes in our legal system. Why doesn't our
judicial come out with a ruthless punishment as a reply to this
devilish act. Amputate hands, legs & organ and hang till death. Human
Rights may have their reservations on this, but HR is for Humans
(victims) and not for the devils (criminals).Srikanth Bhat Chennai 19
Mar, 2009 05:04 PM

Rape, molestation, child abuse and many such in-humane acts have been
hitting the headlines of late. The legal proceedings get dragged for
years owing to the loop holes in our legal system. Why doesn't our
judicial come out with a ruthless punishment as a reply to this
devilish act. Amputate hands, legs & organ and hang till death. Human
Rights may have their reservations on this, but HR is for Humans
(victims) and not for the devils (criminals).Blank India 19 Mar, 2009
05:15 PM

I am at loss of words...on how to condemn this ...this mind
goes blank on hearing acts like this what's wrong man...where is this
going...even if one person is doing this, -what are the reasons, how
can someone stoop so low -Is there something that can be done
here...punishing/killing them is just a can it solve the
problem - Are they mentally so sick?? Manasakanthi, Konanakunte,
Bangalore 19 Mar, 2009 05:16 PM

Its disgraceful to the indian community and we feel sorry for the poor
girl who when thru this commotion all these years. People of strange
attitude are still in existence.Both the father and mother should be
punished and the punishment should be viewed in all the TV channels
(Breaking news). A new law should be framed for such people. There
might be still more People who are behaving similar to this and it
will teach them a lesson that they cant escape the law. Shaindil
bangalore 19 Mar, 2009 05:20 PM

The daughter and mother should have murdered this opportunistic and
dirty guy long back. If the tantric tells this guy to eat shit, will
he do that? This is the truth India 19 Mar, 2009 05:28 PM

Incest-raping your own kids- is rampant in India, rural and urban. It
has always been a 'family secret' where the mother actually provides
the daughter to her husband. Please do not blame the West, instead
praise them. They widely publicize any incest, whereas Indian
politicians and goons silence the victims. No one hears of their
cries, all pretend that everything is hunky dory in our nation. Wake
up, look around, there will always be examples right under your nose.
Why else to praise the West? because they teach our kids to have guts
to speak up. Ask any older gynecologist, they have been seeing this
for decades.GE Australia 19 Mar, 2009 05:56 PM

India is truly the rape capital of the world.sanjay dubai 19 Mar, 2009
06:01 PM

i am totally in favour of what rajeev from gurgaon has mentioned. it
will be a lesson for those cases which are not out in public
yet.jahangir houlader maldives 19 Mar, 2009 06:06 PM

I think the man should be handed over to the people and tell the mob o
do whatever they like to do.Muhammad MN 19 Mar, 2009 06:11 PM

This is shameful.Adnan Oman 19 Mar, 2009 06:35 PM

Isn't this unbelievable? The heinous act depicts the greed of an
mentally ill individual & to what extent he can fall for the sake of
his worldly desires. All three should be tortured to death for
resorting to one of the worst crime. They have not only ruined their
daughters life but also defamed the father - daughter relationship.
kumar mumbai 19 Mar, 2009 06:37 PM

Even the judiciary would shed tears for the innocent girls. The so
called business man and his wife have no place to live in the human
habituate and so is the tantrik. all this three should get the capital
punishment with no right to appeal. God knows how many people this
tantrik must have brain washed. The police should investigate this
angle too.GANI AHMED SHAIKH DUBAI 19 Mar, 2009 07:27 PM

this kind of people should be hanged in public, this so called
tantriks take people for a ride. COMMON FOLKS WE ARE IN MODERN WORLD
DON'T BELIEVE IN THIS THINGS.Sule Paritosh Plano 19 Mar, 2009 07:28 PM

please try to understand that Merely Beating a Single person wont stop
such activities from happening in future. A businessman has no
religion / ethics. His only intention is money. I also feel that his
Wife is equally responsible for the Crime. Please dont publish the
name of the culprit, as people can Backtrace to their daughters and
make their life miserable Agniyah Shaikh Sharjah 19 Mar, 2009 08:12 PM

International Women's Day was celebrated all over the world recently
with great pomp and show! In the heart of Mumbai these two girls
suffered meanwhile. And how many suffer daily in the same manner!
Girls must be given the courage to openly protest any wrong done to
them. The mother seem to be an impossible person- She should be given
the toughest sentence for her 'silence' and approval for this criminal
act.Abu Abdullah USA 19 Mar, 2009 08:35 PM

Absolutely appalling. What were these middle-aged "adults" thinking?
The Austrian "incest dad" was enough as a pervert in this
world.Tanveer London 19 Mar, 2009 08:37 PM

stupid comment from SJ, Dubai 'incest is a normal thing in west as we
all know and sadly it is entering into our society'. One must be an
idiot to thing incest is 'normal' in any society. In no society incest
is normal. Stop this hatred for west. By that logic, the 60 yr old and
the tantrik was influenced by the west to do such thing!!!!!! what a
laugh!!!! stop blaming the west. this things happens in any society
and we must admint that our indian society also has such incest,
though its not common. Most of the cases are suppressed because of
loss of family honor (the so-called izzat), reputation to the society/
comminuty/country etc.Somnath New York 19 Mar, 2009 09:02 PM

There is no real upliftment of women, such issues would have never
occurred if govt provided more jobs and education than making laws in
favour of women. The laws need to be gender neutral and govt should
promote more jobs and education for women and make them independent.
Govt's policies are just eye wash and at the ground level it never
reaches the general public.Raj Orlando, Florida 19 Mar, 2009 10:01 PM

Media is more active nowadays and due to which more cases will come
out like this incidence. There may be many more incidences like this
in India but victim do not come out. My suggestion : every school must
be visited by two to three psycratist, once in 3 months where all the
students are being checked for any personal problems. These problems
could be rape, bitting by parents, torture, children are having lack
of attention in class, poor health effecting their school activities.
Such psychartist prepare report on each student with all facts and
suggest right remedy or if necessary police complain. This kind of
routine check will encourage children to come out with the fact of any
kind of personal suffering or any kind of psychological problems
disturbing them. Prevention is better for children and for their
natural growth. Nitasha Chennai 19 Mar, 2009 10:33 PM

The lack of education causes people to behave in such a hienous
way.Can you imagine any sane,sensible family consulting a 'tantrik' &
not straight away delivering him to the nearest police station when he
comes up with this vile remedy?I salute the girl for having the
courage in going against her parents & protecting her
sister.Unfortunately,it will leave severe scars on her mind which no
punishment to the parents & the great tanrik can cure.Abhay Dang
Delhi, India 19 Mar, 2009 10:35 PM

Religion does destroy common sense.Abhay Dang Delhi, India 19 Mar,
2009 10:38 PM

One day a woman commits suicide because her daughter refused to study.
And now this. Really, Indians have lost their brains!!Manoj Gupta
Bangalore 19 Mar, 2009 10:52 PM

Oh My God!!! It has happened in India also!!!Shame india 20
Mar, 2009 12:18 AM

Another Fritzel!!!kg india 20 Mar, 2009 12:20 AM

Another Fritzel!!!SUMIT DELHI 20 Mar, 2009 12:21 AMwell this is
disturbing thing but do not over highlight this story otherwise that
will give a big impact on father and daughter relationship
universal.amit california 20 Mar, 2009 12:23 AM

Incest laws in the west are more stringent that in the East. In the
west - marrying a first cousin in illegal, it happens in India all the
time. As far as this case - it is a shameful act. The government
should do something about this quick, hopefully they are able to get
the case to hearing before the girl dies of old age...pathetic..monika
glasgow 20 Mar, 2009 12:47 AM

The real culprits in cases like these are indian wives cum
mothers,they have only one mission in their lives which is to keep
evil husbands happy,he might be an addict,a convict,an abuser,but she
will always protect his image and think she will go to heaven if she
does his seva,such women can sacrifice anything even children ,and
because of them india now has a land of courageous abusers who take
pride in their sins, I am a women and I am ashamed of what happened
just because of a coward mother,perhaps time has come to teach all
wives,bhaus,daughters,the real meaning of seva and sacrifice.We have
to stop blaming literacy for everything, our values are corrupted, and
noone can change values,only parents can. So lets be honest with
eachother and be brave enough to stop men when they do wrong not
support them when they speak ,behave,act,wrong and abuse defenceless
children. Sandeep London 20 Mar, 2009 12:58 AM

I have no words...people are so greedy for money & sex that they dont
even see if that's outsider or their own daughter. Religion got
nothing to do with this nor education its an individual and not about
a country, city, religion nor eastern or western countries. People
like them should not be hanged coz that would be too easy...cut their
private part that's the best option & that should be enforced as
global law...shame what a sick human being.Raghunathan Sharjah, UAE 20
Mar, 2009 01:12 AM

I read all the comments. I have no words to say. I am feeling so
shameful and angered by the act of these three bastards. Even a
punishment of death will not solve this issue. This man (father)
should witness his wife being raped by the Tantric. Tantric should
witness his wife being raped by the businessman and the businessman
should pay him 1 Rupee as the cost of the action. Only this could be
the worst of unimaginable punishment to all the three. In India??????
which taught the value of Astrology and all the other remedial
measures to cure the problems by prayers?????????? Where is God?????
Where are these insane people???? All my friends and my family are
very upset and sad. What will happen to these girls? Will anyone marry
them? Can they live a moderate genuine life hereafter? God only can
answer and save their lives. I and my family and all my friends prayed
for them this evening. May God show them a better life from this
evening. Raghunathan, Sharjah.SALMAN RIYADH 20 Mar, 2009 02:15 AM

FROM ALLAHsaad uddin saudi arabia 20 Mar, 2009 02:15 AM

dear sir, through your esteemed daily i want to convey my feeling like
any other value loving indians. India is known for its cultural and
religious values across the world but the reality is,as the Mumbai
businessman's case shows that we are deviating very fast to an unknown
limit of moral devastation for which unbridled media is responsible to
a large extent.Sexual harassmment has become regular appearences in
the news papers.And I believe the cases behind the screen are
certainly larger than the noticed ones.So to give a halt or at least
to minimise this kind of heinious crimes the law making agencies
should amend the existing laws towards some tougher ones and convicts
are to be punished puclicly. yours smartindian US 20 Mar, 2009 02:51

Parents and Tantrik must to be killed in public. Freddie Pereira
Sydney 20 Mar, 2009 04:41 AM

This is Insane, After Slum Dog's success all over the world...this
story is very shocking. What has happened to all the so called "Indain
Traditional Culture" which is always Portrayed as a Big Strength
compared to the rest of the world. I am ashamed to call myself an
Indian after this devestating act by the Indian Parents ! Kishore
California, USA 20 Mar, 2009 05:56 AM

The father, mother and Tantrik trio should be shot dead on the
spot. .Derek Canada 20 Mar, 2009 06:34 AM

Surprising none has written that it is the influence of western
culture that is the cause of this heinous crime. Are you guys
surprised that this happens in India too?Suhail USA 20 Mar, 2009 06:34

what a narrow minded and stupid guy. No wonder his business failed,
thomson Abudhabi 20 Mar, 2009 07:19 AMshoot the both stupid husband
and stupid mother&tanric in the public.Crescentman Assam 20 Mar, 2009
09:37 AM

People believe in fast bucks rather than hard work. This mindset has
been taken advantage by jothids and tantriks which needs to be
arrested immediately. Behind everything, the economic considerations
are the root cause. I appeal to the Govt. to come up with
comprehensive, transparent and inclusive 33% reservations to women
immediately without any delay.pankaj khatwani china 20 Mar, 2009 09:37

india police should be very hard with this type of tantrik!!!! and
this type of parents if they dont know meaning of children ,why were
they born , she is so great she geve birth to her doughter and felt
pain for 9 monthskiran pune 20 Mar, 2009 09:54 AM

Dear folk why dont u see whats going under your skin . recently there
was a news of a female australian teacher who torchered their male
student for having sex for marks ?? where r u staying ????archana
delhi 20 Mar, 2009 10:05 AM

It is shame on us ..such an incident is happening in India now.Shame
on such fathers and the co-supporters.He should be punished and
sentenced to death so that others learn.Vipin Chennai 20 Mar, 2009
11:01 AM

The only way to stop rape crimes in India is not by just bringing
those case into light and imprision them that to for how many years
4-6 max.They wont pay nor such crimes can ever be stopped. If the
government and judicial system is realy looking for an answer to stop
then Death sentence have to be imposed for this crime. I tell you
there will be more than 100 case which will fall under this but even
if it becomes 1000 justice must be served. DEATH CAN ONLY DEAL WITH
RAPE CHARGES. People fighting for human rights must understand for
what they are fighting for and most importantly for whom.I hope some
day the judical system of our country will pass with LAW without
debating in our parliment.

...and I am Sid Harth

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 24 2010 9:41 am
From: chhotemianinshallah

Kali (demon)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is about the Hindu demon. For other uses, see Kali
Not to be confused with the goddess Kali.


In Hinduism, Kali (IAST: káli; Devnāgari: कलि; from a root kad
"suffer, grieve, hurt; confound, confuse") is the reigning lord of
Kali Yuga and nemesis of Kalki, the 10th and final avatar of the Hindu
god Vishnu. According to the Vishnu Purana, he is a negative
manifestation of Vishnu, who along with his extended evil family,
perpetually operates as a cause of the destruction of this world.[1]
In the Kalki Purana, he is portrayed as a demon and the source of all
evil. In the Mahabharata, he was a gandharva who possessed Nala,
forcing him to lose his Kingdom in a game of dice to his brother
Pushkara. His most famous incarnation is the Kaurava King Duryodhana.
Kali is the prototype for the demon Kroni and his incarnation Kaliyan
of Ayyavazhi mythology.


See also: The Gandharvas mentioned in Mahabharata

Damayanti speaking with a celestial swan.According to the Mahabharata,
the gandharva Kali became jealous when he was late to Princess
Damayanti's marriage ceremony and discovered she had overlooked the
deities Indra, Agni, Varun, and Yama (and ultimately himself) to
choose Nala as her husband. In anger, Kali spoke to his companion
Dvapara, the personification of Dwapara Yuga:

"I am ill able, O Dwapara, to suppress my anger. I shall possess Nala,
deprive him of his kingdom, and he shall no more sport with Bhima's
daughter. Entering the dice, it behoveth thee to help me." [2]

Kali traveled to Nala's kingdom of Nishadhas and waited twelve long
years for the right moment to strike. Because Nala had rendered
himself impure by not washing his feet before his prayers, Kali was
able to bewitch his soul. Kali then appeared before Pushkara and
invited him to play a game of dice with his brother, guaranteeing
Nala's downfall. Dwarpa took the form of the Vrisha die that would be
used in the fixed game. Kali forced Nala to lose and, each time, he
would raise the stakes higher despite the protest of his advisors and
wife. Finally, Nala lost his kingdom to Pushkara. Both he and
Damayanti were exiled to the forest.

Duryodhana as depicted in Yakshagana popular drama from
KarnatakaDuring their exile, Kali drove Nala to abandon Damayanti, who
later enacted a curse against everyone that had caused the downfall of
her husband. She eventually returned home after a short time as a hand-
maiden to the Princess of Chedi. Nala, meanwhile, saved the Naga
Karkotaka from fire (where he was cursed to suffer by sage Narada).
Intending to exorcize the devil within him, the serpent bit Nala,
injecting him with deadly poisons that forever tortured Kali. The
venom also changed Nala into an ugly dwarf named Bahuka. He later
became the charioteer of the Ayodhya King Rituparna, who was a master
mathematician and dice player.

Years later, King Rituparna revealed to Bahuka the supreme skill of
controlling the dice in exchange for horsemanship lessons. This skill
awakened Nala from Kali's control and allowed him (with the help of
Damayanti's curse and Karkotaka's venom) to exorcise the demon;
vomiting him in the form of poison from his mouth. Nala forced the
Kali's trembling spirit into a Vibhitaka tree. He then counted the
fruits of the tree and left in search of his wife and later regained
his true form. Kali returned to his abode as well.

Kali was later incarnated as king Duryodhana, eldest of the one
hundred Kaurava brothers. His companion Dvapara became his uncle
Sakuni. The day Duryodhana was born, he unleashed a donkey-like scream
which the donkeys outside the home replied to. Despite the advise from
Vidura to discard the evil baby, Duryodhana's father Dhritarashtra
kept the child because demons had received a boon from Shiva that the
future king would be invincible.[3][4]

Puranic accounts

The Kalki Purana describes him as a huge being, the color of "soot,"
with a large tongue, and a terrible stench. From his birth, he carried
an Upaasthi (worship) bone. The Kalki Purana says this demon "chose
gambling, liquor, women and gold as his permanent abodes."[5] The
Sanskrit-English Dictionary states Kali is "of a class of mythic
beings (related to the Gandharvas, and supposed by some to be fond of
gambling)".[6] The Bhagavata Purana describes him as a sudra wearing
the garments of a king.[7] An early 20th century anti-beef eating
pamphlet protesting the slaughter of the sacred cow in India portrays
Kali as a brownish-skinned demon with a dog-like face, protruding
fangs, pointed ears, long green bushy hair and wearing a red loin
cloth and golden jewelry. (See Religion and politics)

The names of the four yugas of time—Satya, Treta, Dvapara and Kali—are
named after "dice throws" from a game of dice popular during the Vedic
period. Their order coincides with the favorability of each throw:
Satya is the best throw, whereas Kali is considered the worst.[8][9]
During the Mahabharata, king Nala exorcises the disembodied spirit of
Kali to a vibhitaka tree,[10] the nuts of which were used to create
the dice for the vedic dice game.[11] Therefore, not only Kali's name,
but his penchant for gambling and reputation as being evil comes from
this dice game.

The churning of the ocean of milk

According to a lesser known Madhva version of the legend, during the
churning of the ocean of milk, a great poison known as halahala was
produced, which Vayu, the god of wind, rubbed in his hands to reduce
its potency. Then a small portion was given to god Shiva, turning his
throat blue. The rest was collected in a golden vessel and digested by
Vayu. (One source states he drank the Kalakuta poison of Vasuki nāga.
[12] Still others more commonly state that Shiva drank alone.[13]) A
little portion of poison that wasn't swallowed by Shiva became the
body of Kali. From this poison also came, "cruel objects like snakes,
wolves, and tigers."[3]

Later, when the asura Rahu was decapitated by Vishnu's Mohini avatar,
the demon's allies attacked her and all except Kali were killed.
Having the power to possess the bodies of immortal and mortal beings,
he entered the hearts of man and escaped death.[14] He occasionally
entered Shiva and caused him to write evil scriptures, which created
great confusion and misconceptions. Because Kali was "invisible,
unimaginable, and present in all" the only way to correct the chaos
born from the miswritten texts was to completely renew the sacred
scriptures entirely. Thus Vishnu descended to earth as Vedavyasa, the
compiler of the sacred scriptures Vedas and the writer of the Puranas.

Markandeya Purana

According to Markandeya Purana, the Brahmin Pravara was given a
magical ointment that allowed him to fly. But when he flew to the
Himalayas, the ointment was washed away from the bottoms of his feet
keeping him from returning home to his wife. During this time, the
nymph Varuthini fell madly in love with him and begged the Brahmin to
stay with her forever. But eventually, he rejected her. He prayed to
Agni who returned him home safely.

The gandharva Kali was in love with Varuthini and had been rejected by
her in the past. He saw how she hungered for the Brahmin, so he took
on the appearance of Pravara and came before the courtesan. He led her
into the bedchamber and told her to close her eyes during their shared
pleasure [sambhoga]. (Another version of this tale explains the reason
he told her to shut her eyes was because gods revert to their true
forms whenever they do the basest of things, such as eating, sleeping,
and making love (including dying for demons).) As they made love,
Varuthini noticed that his body became flaming hot and believed it was
because his Brahmin spirit was infused with the sacrificial fire.
After climax, Kali, still-as-Pravara, left the apsara and returned to
his abode. Varuthini soon became pregnant and nine months later gave
birth to a human child that not only looked like the Brahmin but
possessed his soul as well.[15] The authors of the book Science in
Culture comment this was an example of the Sanskrit phrase "from his
semen and from her thinking," meaning the child was indeed Pravara's
child because she believed it was his.[16]

In another version, Kali stipulates he will only marry the apsara if
she keeps her eyes closed while they are in the forest (presumably
making love). However, Kali leaves after their marriage and the birth
of their son Svarocisa. Svarocisa grows up to become a very learned
scholar of the Vedas and learns to speak the languages of all
creatures from one of his three wives. He later marries a goddess and
fathers Svarocisa Manu, one of the progenitors of mankind.[17] (See

Bhagavata Purana

The Bhagavata Purana states the very day and moment god Krishna left
this earth, Kali, "who promotes all kinds of irreligious activities,
came into this world."[18] Thus, Kali simply came into being because
the prosperity brought by Krishna left after his death.

After setting off to wage war against the evils of the world with his
armies, Emperor Parikshit, the grandson of Arjuna, came across a Sudra
dressed as a king who was beating a cow and an ox with a club.
Parikshit immediately lead his chariot over to the scene and angrily
berated the sudra for abusing the sacred cow and her mate. However,
this was no ordinary sudra and these were no ordinary bovine, for the
sudra was Kali and the cow and ox were embodiments of the earth
goddess and Dharma. The Emperor noticed the ox was standing on one of
his legs because the other three had been broken by Kali. Dharma
explained his four legs represented "austerity, cleanliness, mercy and
truthfulness", but he had only the leg of "truth" to stand on since
the other three had been broken by kali over the preceding yugas.[7]
Kali was intent on breaking all the legs that supported the reign of
dharma so he could effect the expansion of his own dark reign on
earth. The earth goddess cried for she had once been plentiful, but
when Krishna died and ascended to heaven, she was forsaken and all of
the prosperity left from the world. She feared evil kings like Kali
would continue to lay waste to the earth.

When Parikshit raised his sword to kill Kali, the sudra stripped
himself of his royal garments and prostrated himself at the emperor's
feet. The emperor knew Kali tainted the world with his evil and so had
no place in it and raised his sword once more. But Kali interceded
again and begged the emperor to spare his life and allow him a place
to live within his empire. Parikshit decided that Kali would live in
"gambling houses, in taverns, in women of unchaste lives, in
slaughtering places and in gold".[19] And as long as Parikshit ruled
India, Kali stayed within the confines of these five places. This act
allowed Dharma to regain his legs and the earth to be relieved of much
burden. However, Parikshit was later cursed to die by snake bite after
hunting in the forest and throwing a dead snake on an unresponsive
sage practicing austerities. Upon the emperor's death, "Kali made his
way to other places like wild fire and established his power
throughout the length and breadth of the whole world."[19][20]

In another version of the tale, Kali enters into the Emperor's crown
when Parikshit gives him permission to reside wherever there is gold.
Upon returning home after offending the sage, Parikshit says to
himself, "Kali-yug's abode is in gold; this was on my head; hence I
had so evil a thought that, having taken a dead snake cast it on the
sage's neck. Therefore, I now understand that Kali-yug has taken his
revenge on me. How shall I escape this grievous sin?"[21][22]

Kalki Purana

KalkiMain article: Kalki Purana

The beginning of the Kalki Purana describes Kali's lineage starting
with the creator-god Brahma, his great-great grandfather, and ending
with the birth of his children's children. Instead of being born of
poison from the churning of the ocean of milk, he is the product of a
long line of incestuous monsters born from Brahma's back. (See Family
Lineage below) Kali and his family were created by Brahma to hurry the
dissolution of the cosmos after the pralaya period was over. When his
family takes human form on earth, they further taint the hearts and
minds of mankind to bring about the end of Dvapara Yuga and the
beginning of Kali Yuga. During the first stage of Kali-Yuga, the
Indian caste system breaks down and god-worship is forsaken by man.
All through the second, third, and fourth stages, man forgets the name
of god and no longer offers Yagya (offerings) to the Devas. It is at
this point when god Vishnu reincarnates as Kalki in the name of the
Devas and all of mankind to rid the cosmos of Kali's dark influence.

The remainder of the tale describes Kalki's childhood, military
training under the immortal Parashurama, his marriage, his preparation
for war against Kali, and the decisive war between the two. Kalki
kicks off his campaign by performing the Ashvamedha sacrifice and
leading his armies behind the horse as it runs freely from kingdom to
kingdom. If any evil king tries to stop the horse, Kalki engages them
in combat. After defeating them, he continues to follow the horse
until all evil kingdoms are vanquished. When Kali finally faces
Kalki's forces, his entire family blood line is wiped out by the
avatar's generals and he presumably dies from wounds inflicted by
Dharma and Satya Yuga personified. Kalki, meanwhile, battles and
simultaneously kills the demon's most powerful generals, Koka and
Vikoka, twin devils adept in the dark arts.[5]


Kali dies one-third of the way through the Kalki Purana. During the
decisive battle between Kali and Kalki's armies, Kali tried to face
both Dharma and Satya Yuga personified, but was overwhelmed and fled
on his donkey because his chariot had been destroyed, leaving his owl-
crested war flag to be trampled on the battlefield. Kali retreated to
the citadel of his capital city of Vishasha where he discovered his
body had been mortally stabbed and burned during his battle with the
two devas. The stench of his blood billowed out and filled the
atmosphere with a foul odor. When Dharma and Satya burst into the
city, Kali tried to run away, but, knowing his family had been
destroyed, coupled with his grevious wounds, he "entered his
unmanifested years".[5] This might lead some to believe he died, but
one version of the Kalki Purana in the book The Origins of Evil in
Hindu Mythology states Kali does not die but, instead, escapes through
time and space to live in the Kali Yuga of the next Kalpa. The author
comments, "Unlike most battles between gods and demons, however, this
apparent victory is immediately undercut, for Kali escapes to reappear
in 'another age'—in our age, or the next Kali Age."[23] Since he had
the power to manifest himself in human form on earth, he was able to
forsake his dying corporal form to escape in spirit.

Family lineage

Kali is the great-great grandson of Lord Brahma. He is the son of
Krodha (Anger) and his sister-turned-wife Himsa (Violence). He is the
grandson of Dambha (Vanity) and his sister-turned-wife, Maya
(Illusion). He is the great-grandson of Adharma (Impropriety) and his
wife, Mithya (Falsehood). Adharma was originally created from Lord
Brahma's back as a Maleen Pataka (a very dark and deadly sinful

B.K. Chaturvedi, a modern translator of the Kalki Purana, states in a
foot note that the growth of this dark sinful object into Adharma
seems to, "convey the growth of Kaliyuga and its obnoxious

Vishnu Purana

Kali's family lineage is told differently in the Vishnu Purana, which
is a father purana to the Kalki Purana:

The wife of Adharma (vice) was Himsá (violence), on whom he begot a
son Anrita (falsehood), and a daughter Nikriti (immorality): they
intermarried, and had two sons, Bhaya (fear) and Naraka (hell); and
twins to them, two daughters, Maya (deceit) and Vedaná (torture), who
became their wives. The son of Bhaya and Máyá was the destroyer of
living creatures, or Mrityu (death); and Dukha (pain) was the
offspring of Naraka and Vedaná. The children of Mrityu were Vyádhi
(disease), Jará (decay), Soka (sorrow), Trishńa (greediness), and
Krodha (wrath). These are all called the inflictors of misery, and are
characterised as the progeny of Vice (Adharma). They are all without
wives, without posterity, without the faculty to procreate; they are
the terrific forms of Vishńu, and perpetually operate as causes of the
destruction of this world. On the contrary, Daksha and the other
Rishis, the elders of mankind, tend perpetually to influence its
renovation: whilst the Manus and their sons, the heroes endowed with
mighty power, and treading in the path of truth, as constantly
contribute to its preservation.

In this version, Himsa is Adharma's wife instead of his granddaughter.

Bhagavata Purana

According to the Bhagavata Purana, Adharma is the husband of Mrishá
(falsehood), and the father of Dambha (hypocrisy) and Máyá (deceit),
who were adopted by Nirritti (Hindu god/dess of misery). The series of
their descendants is also somewhat varied from our text; being in each
descent, however, twins which intermarry, or Lobha (covetousness) and
Nikriti, who produce Krodha (wrath) and Hinsá: their children are,
Kali (wickedness) and Durukti (evil speech): their progeny are, Mrityu
and Bhí (fear); whose offspring are, Niraya (hell) and Yátaná

In this version, Mrisha is the wife of Adharma and not Himsa or

Linga Purana

The Linga Purana enumerates Adharma among the Prajapatis (Lords of

Dharma Personified

Since Dharma is one of the major antagonists of Kali, it is important
to note this personified deity has his own line of offspring that work
against the demon and his family to bring balance to the world. The
following comes from the Vishnu Purana:

The progeny of Dharma by the daughters of Daksha were as follows: by
Sraddha he had Kama (desire); by Lakshmi, Darpa (pride); by Dhriti,
Niyama (precept); by Tushti, Santosha (content); by Pushti, Lobha
(cupidity); by Medhá, Sruta (sacred tradition); by Kriya, Danda, Naya,
and Vinaya (correction, polity, and prudence); by Buddhi, Bodha
(understanding); by Lajj, Vinaya (good behaviour); by Vapu, Vyavasaya
(perseverance). Santi gave birth to Kshema (prosperity); Siddhi to
Sukha (enjoyment); and Kírtti to Yasas. These were the sons of Dharma;
one of whom, Kama, had Hersha (joy) by his wife Nandi (delight).

Again, the Bhagavata Purana gives a different account of his
children's names.[25]


Kali's sister-turned-wife, Durukti (Calumny), gave him two offspring:
a son named Bhayanak (Fear) and a daughter named Mrityu (Death). His
son and daughter gave him two grandchildren: a boy named Naraka (Hell)
and a girl named Yatana (Torture).[5] Again, there are some
discrepancies here. The Vishnu Purana says Mrityu and Bhayanak are his
brother and sister. Mrityu is even represented as male instead of

Kali is the grandfather of Svarocisa Manu, one of the progenitors of
mankind.[17] As previously mentioned, Kali had a son named Svarocisa
with the Apsara Varuthini. Svarocisa once traveld to Mt. Mandara and
was met by Manorama, a cursed-woman being chased by a demon. In the
past, she had made fun of a sage practicing Tapasya austerities on Mt.
Kailas and was cursed to be captured by a demon. When her friends
Vibhavari and Kalavati berated the sage for enacting a curse for such
a minor offence, he cursed one to be a leper and the other a carrier
of diseases. Manorama had knowledge of a powerful spiritual weapon,
but did not know how to wield it, so she taught it to Svarocisa. When
the demon leaped out of the forest and grabbed a hold of the woman,
Svarocis called forth the weapon. But the demon stayed his hand and
explained he was actually Manorama's father, Indivara. He had also
been cursed to become a demon by the sage Brahmamitra because he tried
to covertly obtain the secrets of Ayurveda medicine without the sage's
knowledge. The sage told him that the curse would end when he was
about to eat his own daughter. Once he regained his true form,
Indivara taught Svarocisa the Ayurveda medication, which he used to
cure Manorama's friends. He later married the three and had three sons
with them. He learned the languages of all creatures from Vibhavari
and the Padmini vidya from Kalavati.

Despite his prosperity, Svarocis was unhappy in his life and could
hear the ducks and deer talking about him behind his back. One day he
went hunting and took aim at a boar, but a deer came through the
clearing and asked to be shot in its place. When he enquired why, the
deer told him that she was really the goddess of the forest and wished
to marry Svarocisa. So he embraced the deer and she turned into a
beautiful woman. Together, they had a son named Dyutiman, who later
became the Svarocisa Manu.[17]

One source states, "Kali's wife Alakshmi and her sons who supervise
evil also came from Kshirasagara [the ocean of milk]."[3] Alakshmi is
the elder sister of the goddess Lakshmi, the consort of Vishnu.[26]
Since the Kalki Purana states his wife Durukti is his sister, Alakshmi
would be a second wife because she is not directly related to him.

There are a number of connections and similarities between Kali and
Alakshmi. First and foremost, Alakshmi's sister is the consort of Lord
Vishnu, who sent his Kalki avatar to earth to defeat Kali.[26] Second,
legends say she was born either from the churning of the ocean of
milk, the poison from Vasuki (who helped churn the ocean) or the back
of Prajapati.[26][27] As previously mentioned, Kali is said to have
been born from the halahala poison created from churning the ocean or
from a lineage created from Lord Brahma's back.[3][5] Third, Alakshmi
takes the form of an owl.[26] Kali's emblem on his war flag is of an
owl.[5] Fourth, whenever Alakshmi enters a house, families fight and
turn on one another.[28] The presence of Kali and his family on earth
causes mankind to fight and turn on one another. Finally, Alakshmi is
said to ride a donkey.[26] Kali also rides a donkey in the Kalki

Role in modern communalism

Further information: Communalism (South Asia) and Religious violence
in India

Anti-beef eating pamphlet (1890 CE) showing Kali (far right)
attempting to slaughter a sacred cow.
The color version ran by the Ravi Varma Press (c. 1912).Kali's image
was used in several pamphlets circulated by various Agorakshanasabh
("cow protection leagues") and "wandering ascetics" as a protest
against the Muslim practice of beef-eating during the British raj.[29]
[30] These pamphlets were produced in a time when Hindu-Muslim riots
over cow slaughter occurred in several areas of India; including
Azamgarh district (1893), when a total of 100 people died in similar
conflagrations throughout the empire; Ayodhya (1912-1913); and
Shahabad (1917).[31] One such pamphlet entitled "The Present State"
showed a cow being slaughtered by a trio of "Muhammadan" butchers.[29]
[30] Another portrayed Kali raising a sword above the head of a sacred
cow, whose body was illustrated to be a microcosmic paradise in which
all the Hindu gods resided. There were many different editions of this
version. For instance, one showed a woman labeled "The Hindu" waiting
with bowl-in-hand for the cow's calf to finish suckling before she
could get milk. A form of Krishna labeled Darmaraj ("Ruler of Dharma")
stood behind the cow and Kali was, again, harassing her with his
sword. Still, a different one deleted the woman and calf and instead
portrayed Dharmaraj in front of the cow pleading mat maro gay sarv ka
jivan hai ("don't kill the cow, everyone is dependent on it"), while
Kali rebuts he manusyaho! Kaliyugi Mansahari jivom ko dekho ("mankind,
look at the meat-eating souls of the kaligyug").[29]

Some Hindus considered Kali's presence in the picture to be a
representation of the Muslim community.[29][30] When one of the
versions of these pamphlets came into the possession of a state
official in 1893, he commented that the image "contained a
representation of a Musalman [Muslim] advancing to slay the cow ...".
[29] One book states, "The Magistrate [at Deoria] found Muhammadans
excited because they heard a picture was in circulation representing a
Muhammadan with a sword drawn sacrificing a cow, and this they
considered an insult."[29] In 1915, a color version of this picture
ran by the Ravi Varma Press[32] caught the attention of the colonial
censors and was presumably censored in some way.[29]

In popular culture

Nala Damayanti (1921): This big-budget film depicts a famous episode
from the Mahabharata, starting with Narada's ascent of Mount Meru. It
shows Swarga, the Heaven of Indra, the Transformation in the Clouds of
the Four Gods into impersonations of King Nala, Swan Messengers of
Love, the Transformation of Kali into a Serpent, the Meeting of Kali
and Dwarpa and the Four Gods amidst the Blue Air.[33]


^ a b CHAP. VII
^ a b c d e Chapter X Samudra mathana
^ a b c d e f g h i Chaturvedi, B.K. Kalki Purana. New Delhi: Diamond
Books, 2004 (ISBN 81-288-0588-6)
^ Monier-Williams, Monier, Sir.Sanskrit-English Dictionary ISBN
^ a b Canto 1: Creation, Chapter 17
^ Glass, Marty. YUGA: An Anatomy of Our Fate. Sophia Perennis, 2004
(ISBN 0900588292)
^ "Terminalia belerica (Combretaceae) is a large deciduous tree
growing to a height of 25 – 30 meters, occurring throughout India up
to 1000 meters elevation, except in the dry regions of western
India ..." [1]
^ Smith, Frederick M. The Self Possessed: Deity And Spirit Possession
in South Asian Literature And Civilization. Columbia University Press,
2006 (ISBN 0231137486)
^ Mutalik, Keshav M. Jagannath Dasa's Harikathamrutasara (Quintessence
of Hari's Saga). Bombay: Focus (ISBN 81-7154-787-7)
^ In another version given by Shaivites, Shiva alone drank the deadly
poison, but his consort Parvati squeezed his neck to keep it from
reaching his stomach.[2] Still, some traditions state Vayu drank first
and Shiva last and that Vayu himself is an aspect of Shiva.

^ The same source says Kali can never enter the bodies of Vishnu, his
consort Lakshmi, or Vayu.
^ Doniger, Wendy. The Bedtrick: Tales of Sex and Masquerade.
University Of Chicago Press, 2000 (ISBN 0226156427)
^ Graubard, Stephen R. and Everett Mendelsohn. Science in Culture. Ed.
Peter Galison and Stephen Graubard. Transaction Publishers, 2001 (ISBN
^ a b c Prasad, Ramanuj. Know The Puranas. Pustak Mahal, 2005 (ISBN
^ Canto 1: Creation, Chapter 18
^ a b Sastri, Natesa S. M. Hindu Feasts: Fasts And Ceremonies: Fasts
and Ceremonies. Laurier Books Ltd., 2003 (ISBN 8120604024)
^ See chapters 16, 17, and 18
^ The Prema-Sagara: Or the Ocean of Love (PDF ONLY)
^ Bahadur, S.P. Gitavali: Complete Works of Goswami Tulsidas (Volume
III). India: Prachya Prakashan, 1979 (ISBN 8121506697)
^ O'Flaherty, Wendy Doniger. The Origins of Evil in Hindu Mythology.
University of California Press, 1980 (ISBN 0520040988)
^ a b See 55:14
^ See 55:13
^ a b c d e Pattanaik, Devdutt. Lakshmi: The Goddess of Wealth and
Fortune-An Introduction. Vakils Feffer & Simons Ltd, 2003 (ISBN
^ Krishna, Nanditha. The Book of Vishnu. Penguin Global, 2001 (ISBN
^ Chakrabarty, Dipesh. Provincializing Europe. Princeton University
Press, 2000 (ISBN 0691049092)

^ a b c d e f g Pinney, Christopher. Photos of the Gods: The Printed
Image and Political Struggle in India. Reaktion Books, 2004 (ISBN
^ a b c Gupta, Charu. Sexuality, Obscenity, And Community: Women,
Muslims, and the Hindu Public in Colonial India. Palgrave Macmillan,
2006 (ISBN 0312295855)
^ Paradox of the Indian Cow: Attitudes to Beef Eating in Early India
^ A lithograph press founded by Indian artist Ravi Varma in 1894.[3]
^ Plot Summary for Nala Damayanti (1921)

External links

Look up Kali in Wiktionary, the free dictionary.

Places of Kali – Podcast of Kali's tale from the Bhagavata Purana.
કલિયુગનાં ચાર આશ્રયસ્થાન (Kaliyuga's mainstay) – The tale of Kali and
Parikshit in Gujarati.

Srimad Bhagavatam: Cant 1 – See chapters 16 and 17.
A very large detailed painting of King Parikshit about to kill Kali.

/ History / Myths of Origins /

Paradox of the Indian Cow:
Attitudes to Beef Eating in Early India

By DN Jha
Renowned historian writes on beef eating in ancient India and
associated issues

An average Indian of today rooted in what appears to him as his
traditional Hindu religious heritage carries the load of the
misconception that his ancestors, especially the Vedic Aryans,
attached great importance to the cow on account of its inherent
sacredness. The 'sacred' cow has come to be considered a symbol of
community identity of the Hindus whose cultural tradition is often
imagined as threatened by the Muslims who are thought of as
beefeaters. The sanctity of the cow has, therefore, been announced
with the flourish of trumpets and has been wrongly traced back to the
Vedas, which are supposedly of divine origin and fountainhead of all
knowledge and wisdom. In other words, some sections of Indian society
have traced back the concept of sacred cow to the very period when it
was sacrificed and its flesh was eaten.

More importantly, the cow has tended to become a political instrument
at the hand of rulers over time. The Mughal emperors (e.g. Babar,
Akbar, Jahangir and Aurangzeb etc) are said to have imposed a
restricted ban on cow slaughter to accommodate the Jaina or
Brahmanical feeling of respect and veneration of the cow[1].
Similarly Shivaji, sometimes viewed as an incarnation of God who
descended on earth for the deliverance of the cow and brahmin, is
described as proclaiming: "We are Hindus and the rightful lords of the
realm. It is not proper for us to witness cow slaughter and the
oppression of brahmanas"[2].

But the cow became a tool of mass political mobilization when the
organized Hindu cow protection movement, beginning with the Sikh Kuka
(or Namdhari) sect in the Punjab around 1870 and later strengthened by
the foundation of the first Gorakshini Sabha in 1882 by Dayanananda
Saraswati, made this animal a symbol to unite a wide ranging people,
challenged the Muslim practice of its slaughter and provoked a series
of serious communal riots in the 1880s and 1890s. Although attitudes
to cow killing had been hardening even earlier, there was undoubtedly
a 'dramatic intensification' of the cow protection movement when in
1888 the North-Western Provinces High Court decreed that a cow was not
a sacred object.[3] Not surprisingly cow slaughter very often became
the pretext of many Hindu-Muslim riots, especially those in Azamgarh
district in the year 1893 when more than one hundred people were
killed in different parts of the country. Similarly in 1912-1913
violence rocked Ayodhya and a few years later, in 1917, Shahabad
witnessed a disastrous communal conflagration.[4]

The killing of the kine seems to have emerged again and again as a
troublesome issue on the Indian political scene even in independent
India despite legislation by several state legislatures prohibiting
cow slaughter and the Directive Principles of State Policy in the
Indian Constitution which directs the Indian state to "…to take steps
for… prohibiting the slaughter of cows and calves and other milch and
draught cattle". For instance, in 1966, nearly two decades after
Indian independence, almost all the Indian communal political parties
and organizations joined hands in masterminding a massive
demonstration by several hundred thousand people in favour of a
national ban on cow slaughter which culminated in a violent rioting in
front of the Indian Parliament resulting in the death of at least
eight persons and injury to many more. In April 1979, Acharya Vinoba
Bhave, often supposed to be a spiritual heir to Mahatma Gandhi, went
on a hunger strike to pressurize the central government to prohibit
cow slaughter throughout the country and ended it after five days when
he succeeded in getting the Prime Minister Morarji Desai's vague
assurance that his government would expedite anti-slaughter
legislation. Since then the cow ceased to remain much of an issue in
the Indian political arena for many years, though the management of
cattle resources has been a matter of academic debate among
sociologists, anthropologists, economists and different categories of
policy framers.

The veneration of cow has been, however, converted into a symbol of
communal identity of the Hindus and the obscurantist and
fundamentalist forces obdurately refuse to appreciate that the
'sacred' cow was not always all that sacred in the Vedic and
subsequent Brahmanical and non-Brahmanical traditions and that its
flesh, along with other varieties of meat, was quite often a part of
the haute cuisine in early India. Although the Shin, Muslims of
Dardistan in Pakistan, look on the cow as other Muslims do the pig,
avoid direct contact with cows, refuse to drink cow's milk or use cow
dung as fuel and reject beef as food,[5] the self-styled custodians of
non-existent 'monolithic' Hinduism assert that the practice of beef
eating was first introduced in India by the followers of Islam who
came from outside and are foreigners in this country, little realising
that their Vedic ancestors were also foreigners who ate the flesh of
the cow and various other animals. Fanaticism getting precedence over
fact, it is not surprising that the Rashtriya Svayamsevak Sangha
(RSS), the Vishwa Hindu Parishad, the Bajrang Dal and their numerous
outfits have a national ban on cow slaughter on their agenda and the
Chief Minister of Gujarat (Keshubhai Patel) announced some time ago,
as a pre-election gimmick, the setting up of a separate department to
preserve cow breeds and manage Hindu temples.[6] More recently, a
Bajrang Dal leader has threatened to enroll 30 lakh volunteers to
agitate against cow slaughter during the month of Bakrid in 2002.[7]
So high-geared has been the propaganda about abstention from beef
eating as a characteristic trait of 'Hinduism' that when the RSS
tried to claim Sikhs as Hindus, it led to vehement opposition from
them and one of the Sikh youth leaders proposed, "Why not slaughter a
cow and serve beef in a gurudwara langar?"[8]

The communalists who have been raising a hullabaloo over the cow in
the political arena do not realise that beef eating remained a fairly
common practice for a long time in India and that the arguments for
its prevalence are based on the evidence drawn from our own scriptures
and religious texts. The response of historical scholarship to the
communal perception of Indian food culture, however, has been sober
and scholars have drawn attention to the textual evidence of beef
eating which, in fact, begins to be available from the oldest Indian
religious text Rgveda, supposedly of divine origin. H.H. Wilson,
writing in the first half of the nineteenth century, had asserted:
"the sacrifice of the horse or of the cow, the gomedha or asvamedha,
appears to have been common in the earliest periods of the Hindu
ritual". The view that the practice of killing of cattle at sacrifices
and eating their flesh prevailed among the Indo-Aryans was put forth
most convincingly by Rajendra Lal Mitra in an article which first
appeared in the Journal of the Asiatic Society of Bengal and
subsequently formed a chapter of his book The Indo-Aryans published in
1891. In 1894 William Crooke, a British civil servant, collected an
impressive amount of ethnographic data on popular religious beliefs
and practices in his two-volume book and devoted one whole chapter to
the respect shown to animals including the cow[9]. Later in 1912, he
published an informative piece on the sanctity of cow in India. But he
also drew attention to the old practice of eating beef and its
survival in his own times.[10] In 1927, L. L. Sundara Ram made a
strong case for cow protection for which he sought justification from
the scriptures of different religions including Hinduism. However he
did not deny that the Vedic people ate beef, [11] though he blamed the
Muslims for cow slaughter. Later in the early forties P. V. Kane in
his monumental work History of Dharmasastra referred to some Vedic and
early Dharmasastric passages which speak of cow killing and beef
eating. H.D. Sankalia drew attention to literary as well as
archaeological evidence of eating cattle flesh in ancient India.[12]
Similarly, Laxman Shastri Joshi, a Sanskritist of unquestionable
scholarship, drew attention to the Dharmasastra works, which
unequivocally support the prevalence of the practice of flesh eating
including beef eating in early India.[13]

Needless to say that the scholarship of all of the scholars mentioned
above was unimpeachable, and that none of them seems to have anything
to do with any anti- Hindu ideology. H.H. Wilson, for example, was the
first occupant of the Chair of Sanskrit at Oxford in 1832 and was not
as avowedly anti-Indian as many other imperialist scholars. Rajendra
Lal Mitra, a product of the Bengal renaissance and a close associate
of Rabindranath's elder brother Jyotindranath Tagore, made significant
contribution to India's intellectual life, and was described by Max
Mueller as the 'best living Indologist' of his time and by
Rabindranath Tagore as "the most beloved child of the muse".[14]
William Crooke was a well-known colonial ethnograher who wrote
extensively on peasant life and popular religion without any marked
prejudice against Hinduism.[15] L. L. Sundara Ram, despite his
somewhat anti-Muslim feeling, was inspired by humanitarian
considerations. Mahamahopadhyaya P.V. Kane was a conservative Marathi
brahmin and the only Sanskritist to be honoured with the title of
Bharatratna. H.D. Sankalia combined his unrivalled archaeological
activity with a profound knowledge of Sanskrit. Besides these scholars
several other Indian Sanskritists and Indologists, not to mention a
number of western scholars, have repeatedly drawn our attention to the
textual evidence of eating beef and other types of animal flesh in
early India. Curious though it may seem, the Sangh Parivar, which
carries a heavy burden of "civilisational illiteracy", has never
turned its guns towards them but against historians who have mostly
relied on the researches of the above-mentioned distinguished

While the contribution of the scholars mentioned above cannot be
minimised, the limitation of their work lies in the fact that they
have referred to isolated bits of information on beef eating
concentrating mainly on the Vedic texts without treating it as part of
the flesh eating tradition prevalent in India. Unlike their works,
therefore, the present paper seeks to draw attention to the Indian
textual evidence of cattle killing and beef eating widely dispersed
over time so as to indicate its continuity for a long time in the
Brahmanical society and to suggest that the idea of cow's supposed
holiness does not tie up with practices current in Indian society.


The early Aryans, who migrated to India from outside,
brought along with them their earlier cultural traits. Therefore, even
after their migration into the Indian subcontinent, for several
centuries, pastoralism, nomadism and animal sacrifice remained
characteristic features of their life till sedentary field agriculture
became the mainstay of their livelihood. Animal sacrifices were very
common, and in the agnadheya, which was a preparatory rite preceding
all public sacrifices, a cow was required to be killed.[16] In the
asvamedha, the most important of public sacrifices, first mentioned in
the Rgveda and discussed in the Brahmanas, more than 600 animals
(including wild ones like boars) and birds were killed and its finale
was marked by the sacrifice of 21 cows, which, according to the
dominant opinion were sterile ones.[17] In the gosava, an important
component of the public sacrifices like the rajasuya and vajapeya, a
sterile spotted cow was offered to Maruts and seventeen 'dwarf heifers
under three' were done to death in the pancasaradiyasava.[18] The
killing of animals including the cattle figures in several other
yajnas including caturmasya, sautramani and independent animal
sacrifice called pasubandha or nirudhapasubandha.[19] These and
several other major sacrifices involved killing of animals including
the cattle, which constituted the chief form of the wealth of the
early Aryans. They, not surprisingly, prayed for cattle and sacrificed
them to propitiate their gods.

The Vedic gods, for whom the various sacrifices were performed, had no
fixed menu of food. Milk, butter, barley, oxen, goats and sheep were
offered to them and these were their usual food, though some of them
seem to have had their special preferences. Indra had a special liking
for bulls (RV, V.29.7ab; VI.17.11b; VIII.12.8ab X.27.2c; X. 28. 3c;X.
86.14ab). Agni was not a tippler like Indra, but was fond of animal
food including the flesh of horses, bulls and cows (RV, VIII. 43.11;
X. 91.14ab). The toothless Pusan, the guardian of the roads, ate mush
as a Hobson's choice. Soma was the name of a heady drink but, equally
importantly, of a god and killing of animals including cattle for him
(RV, X.91.14ab) was basic to most of the Rgvedic yajnas. The Maruts
and the Asvins were also offered cows. The Vedas mention about 250
animals out of which at least 50 were deemed fit for sacrifice and by
implication for divine as well as human consumption. The animal food
occupied a place of importance in the Vedic sacrifices and dietetics
and the general preference for the flesh of the cow is undeniable. The
Taittiriya Brahmana (III.9.8) categorically tells us: "Verily the cow
is food" (atho annam vai gauh) and the Satapatha Brahmana (III.1.2.21)
refers to Yajnavalkya's stubborn insistence on eating the tender
(amsala) flesh of the cow.

According to the subsequent Brahmanical texts (e.g. Grhyasutras and
Dharmasutras) the killing of animals and eating of beef was very much
de rigeur. The ceremony of guest-reception (known as arghya in the
Rgveda but generally as madhuparka in subsequent texts) consisted not
only of a meal of a mixture of curds and honey but also of the flesh
of a cow or bull. Early lawgivers go to the extent of making flesh
food mandatory in madhuparka --- an injunction more or less dittoed
by several later legal texts (AsGS, I.24.33; KathaGS, 24,20; SankhGS,
II.15.2; ParGS, I.3.29). A guest therefore came to be described by
Panini as a goghna (one for whom the cow is slain). The sacred thread
ceremony was not all that sacred; for it was necessary for a snataka
to wear an upper garment of the cowhide (ParGS, II.5.17-20).

The slaughter of animals formed an important component of the cult of
the dead in the Vedic texts as well as in later Dharmasastra works.
The thick fat of the cow was used to cover the dead body (RV, X.14-18)
and a bull was burnt along with the corpse to enable the departed to
ride with in the nether world. The funerary rites included feeding of
the brahmins after the prescribed period and quite often the flesh of
the cow/ ox was offered to the dead (AV, XII.2, 48). The textual
prescriptions indicate the degree of satisfaction obtained by the
Manes depending upon the animal offered---- the cow's flesh could keep
them contented for at least a year! The Vedic and the post-Vedic
texts also often mention the killing of animals including the kine in
several other ritual contexts. The gavamayana, a sessional sacrifice
performed by the brahmins was, for example, marked by animal slaughter
culminating in an extravagant bacchanalian communal festival
(mahavrata) in which cattle were slaughtered. There was, therefore, a
relationship between the sacrifice and sustenance. But this need not
necessarily mean that different meat types were eaten only if offered
in a sacrifice. Thus in the grhamedha, which has been discussed in
several Srautasutras, an unspecified number of cows were slain not in
the strict ritual manner but in the crude and profane manner.[20]
Archaeological evidence also suggests non-ritual killing of cattle.
This is indicative of the fact that beef and other animal flesh formed
part of the dietary habits of the people and that the edible flesh was
not always ritually consecrated, though some scholars have argued to
the contrary.[21] Despite the overwhelming evidence of cattle killing,
several scholars have obdurately held that the Vedic cow was sacred
and inviolable on the basis of the occurrence of the word aghnya/
aghnya in the Atharvaveda and the use of words for cow as epithet or
in simile and metaphor with reference to entities of highest religious
significance. But it has been convincingly proved that if the Vedic
cow was at all inviolable, it was so only when it belonged to a
brahmin who received cows as sacrificial fee (daksina).[22] But this
cannot be taken to be an index of the animal's inherent sanctity and
inviolability in the Vedic period or even later.

Nor can one make too much of the doctrine of non-killing (ahimsa) in
relation to the cow. Gautama Buddha and Mahavira emphasized the idea
of non-violence, which seems to have made its first appearance in the
Upanisadic thought and literature. But despite their vehement
opposition of the Vedic animal sacrifice, neither they nor their
followers were averse to eating of meat. The Buddha is known to have
eaten beef and pork and the texts amply indicate that flesh meat very
well suited the Buddhist palate. Asoka, whose compassion for animals
is undeniable, allowed certain specified animals to be killed for his
kitchen. In fact, neither Asoka's list of animals exempted from
slaughter nor the Arthasastra of Kautilya specifically mentions cow as
unslayable. The cattle were killed for food throughout the Mauryan

Like Buddhism, Jainism also enthusiastically took up cudgels for non-
violence. But meat eating was so common in Vedic and post-Vedic times
that even Mahavira, the founder of Jainism, is said to have eaten the
meat of a cockerel. Perhaps the early Jainas were not strict
vegetarians. A great Jaina logician of the eighth century,
Haribhadrasuri, tells us that the monks did not have objection to
eating flesh and fish, which were given to them by householders,
though there is irrefutable textual evidence to show that meat eating
became a strong taboo among the followers of Jainism. The
inflexibility of the Jaina attitude to meat eating is deeply rooted in
the basic tenets of Jaina philosophy, which, at least in theory, is
impartial in its respect for all forms of life without according any
special status to the cow. Thus, although both Buddhism, and, to a
greater extent, Jainism contributed to the growth of ahimsa doctrine,
neither seems to have developed the sacred cow concept


Despite the Upanisadic, Buddhist and Jaina advocacy of ahimsa, the
practice of ritual and random of killing animals including the cattle
continued in the post-Mauryan centuries. The law book of Manu (200 BC-
AD 200), which is the most representative of the legal texts and has
much to say on the lawful and forbidden food, contains several
passages on flesh eating, which have much in common with earlier and
later Brahmanical juridical works. Like the earlier law books, it
mentions the animals whose flesh could be eaten. Manu's list includes
the porcupine, hedgehog, iguana, rhinoceros, tortoise and the hare and
all those domestic animals having teeth in one jaw only, the only
exception being the camel (V.18); and, it is significant that the cow
is not excluded from the list of edible animals. Eating meat on
sacrificial occasions, Manu tells us, is a divine rule (daivo vidhih
smrtah), but doing so on other occasions is a demoniac practice (V.
31). Accordingly one does not do any wrong by eating meat while
honouring the gods, the Manes and guests (madhuparka ca yajne ca
pitrdaivatakarmani), irrespective of the way in which the meat was
procured (V.32, 41). Manu asserts that animals were created for the
sake of sacrifice, that killing on ritual occasions is non-killing (V.
39) and injury (himsa) as enjoined by the Veda (vedavihitahimsa) is
known to be non-injury (V.44). In the section dealing with rules for
times of distress, Manu recalls the legendary examples of the most
virtuous brahmins of the days of yore who ate ox-meat and dog-meat to
escape death from starvation (X.105-9). Manu's latitudinarian attitude
is clear from his recognition of the natural human tendency of eating
meat, drinking spirituous liquor and indulging in sexual intercourse,
even if abstention brings great rewards (V.56). He further breaks
loose the constraints when he says: "the Lord of creatures (Prajapati)
created this whole world to be the sustenance of the vital spirit;
both the immovable and the movable (creation is) the food of the vital
spirit. What is destitute of motion is the food of those endowed with
locomotion; (animals) without fangs (are the food) of those with
fangs, those without hands of those who possess hands, and the timid
of the bold. The eater who daily even devours those destined to be his
food, commits no sin; for the creator himself created both the eaters
and those who are to be eaten" (V.28-30). This injunction removes all
restrictions on flesh eating and gives an unlimited freedom to all
desiring to eat animal flesh and since Manu does not mention beef
eating as taboo one can infer that he did not treat cow as sacrosanct.
Manu contradicts his own statements by extolling ahimsa (X.63), but
there is no doubt that he permitted meat eating at least on ritual
occasions (madhuparka, sraddha etc) when the killing of the cow and
other cattle, according to his commentator Medhatithi (9th century),
was in keeping with the Vedic and post- Vedic practice
(govyajamamsamaproksitambhaksyed… madhuparkovyakhyatah tatra

Yajnavalkya (AD 100-300), like Manu, discusses the rules regarding
lawful and forbidden food. Although his treatment of the subject is
less detailed, he does not differ radically from him. Yajnavalkya
mentions the specific animals (deer, sheep, goat, boar, rhinoceros
etc) and birds (e.g. partridge) whose flesh could satisfy the Manes (I.
258-61). According to him a student, teacher, king, close friend and
son-in-law should be offered arghya every year and a priest should be
offered madhuparka on all ritual occasions (I.110). He further enjoins
that a learned brahmin (srotriya) should be welcomed with a big ox or
goat (mahoksam va mahajam va srotriyayopakalpayet) delicious food and
sweet words. This indicates his endorsement of the earlier practice of
killing cattle at the reception of illustrious guests. Yajnavalkya,
like Manu, permits eating of meat when life is in danger, or when it
is offered in sacrifices and funerary rites (i.179). But unconsecrated
meat (vrthamamsam, anupakrtamamsani), according to him, is a taboo (I.
167, 171) and any one killing animals solely for his own food and not
in accordance with the Vedic practice is doomed to go to hell for as
many days as the number of hair on the body of the victim (I.180).
Similarly Brhaspati (AD 300-500), like Manu, recommends abstention
from liquor (madya), flesh (mamsa) and sexual intercourse only if they
are not lawfully ordained[24] which implies that whatever was lawful
was permitted. The lawgivers generally accept as lawful all those
sacrifices, which, according to them, have Vedic sanction. The
sacrificial slaughter of animals and domesticated bovines, as we have
seen, was a Vedic practice and therefore may have been fairly common
among the Brahmanical circles during the early Christian centuries and
even well into the later half of the first millennium AD. It would be,
however, unrealistic to assume that the dharmic precept of restricting
animal slaughter to ritual occasions was always taken seriously either
by brahmins for whom the legal injunctions were meant or by other
sections of society.[25] It is not surprising, therefore, that
Brhaspati, while discussing the importance of local customs, says that
in Madhyadesa the artisans eat cows (madhyadese karmakarah silpinasca

The evidence from the epics is quite eloquent. Most of the characters
in the Mahabharata are meat eaters and it makes a laudatory reference
to the king Rantideva in whose kitchen two thousand cows were
butchered everyday, their flesh, along with grains, being distributed
among the brahmins (III.208.8-9)[27]. Similarly the Ramayana of
Valmiki makes frequent reference to the killing of animals including
the cow for sacrifice as well as food. Rama was born after his father
Dasaratha performed a big sacrifice involving the slaughter of a large
number of animals declared edible by the Dharmasastras, which, as we
have seen, sanction ritual killing of the kine. Sita, while crossing
the Yamuna, assures her that she would worship her with thousand cows
and a hundred jars of wine when Rama accomplishes his vow. Her
fondness for deer meat drives her husband crazy enough to kill Marici,
a deer in disguise. Bharadvaja welcomes Rama by slaughtering a fatted
calf in his honour.[28]

The non-vegetarian dietary practices find an important place in the
early Indian medical treatises, whose chronology broadly coincides
with that of the law books of Manu and Yajnavalkya, and the two epics.
Caraka (1st-2nd century), Susruta (3rd –4th century) and Vagbhata (7th
century) provide an impressive list of the variety of fish and flesh
and all three of them speak of the therapeutic uses of beef[29]. The
continuity of the tradition of eating flesh including that of the
cattle is also echoed in early Indian secular literature till late
times. In the Gupta period, Kalidasa alludes to the story of Rantideva
who killed numerous cows every day in his kitchen.[30] More than two
centuries later, Bhavabhuti (AD 700) refers to two instances of guest
reception, which included the killing of a heifer[31]. In the 10th
century Rajasekhara mentions the practice of killing an ox or a goat
in honour of a guest[32]. In the 12th century Sriharsa mentions a
variety of non-vegetarian delicacies served at a dazzling marriage
feast and refers to two interesting instances of cow killing[33],
though, in the same century Somesvara shows clear preference for pig
flesh over other meat types and does not mention beef at all.


While the above references, albeit limited in number, indicate that
the ancient practice of killing the kine for food continued till about
the 12th century, there is considerable evidence in the commentaries
on the kavya literature and the earlier Dharmasastra texts to show
that the Brahmanical writers retained its memory till very late times.
Among the commentators on the secular literature, Candupandita (late
13th century) from Gujarat, Narahari[34] (14th century) from Telengana
in Andhra Pradesh, and Mallinatha[35] (14th-15th century), who is
associated with the king Devaraya II of Vidyanagara (Vijayanagara),
clearly indicate that, in earlier times, the cow was done to death for
rituals and hence for food. As late as the 18th century Ghanasyama, a
minister of a Tanjore ruler, states that the killing of cow in honour
of a guest was the ancient rule.[36]

Similarly the authors of Dharmasastra commentaries and religious
digests from the 9th century onwards keep alive the memory of the
archaic practice of beef eating and some of them even go so far as to
permit eating beef in specific circumstances. For example, Medhatithi
(9th century), probably a Kashmirian brahmin, says that a bull or ox
was killed in honour of a ruler or any one deserving to be honoured
and unambiguously allows eating the flesh of cow (govyajamamsam) on
ritual occasions[37]. Several other writers of exegetical works seem
to lend support to this view, though some times indirectly.
Visvarupa[38] (9th century), a brahmin from Malwa and probably a pupil
of Sankara, Vijnanesvara[39] (11th century), who may have lived not
far from Kalyana in modern Karnataka, Haradatta[40] (12th century),
also a southerner (daksinatya), Laksmidhara[41] (12th century), a
minister of the Gahadwala king, Hemadri[42] (late 13th century), a
minister of the Yadavas of Devagiri, Narasimha/ Nrsimha[43] (14th
century), possibly from southern India, and Mitra Misra[44] (17th
century) from Gopacala (Gwalior) support the practice of killing a cow
on occasions like guest-reception and sraddha in ancient times. As
recently as the early 20th century, Madana Upadhyaya from Mithila
refers to the ritual slaughter of milch cattle in the days of yore.
[45] Thus even when the Dharmasastra commentators view cow killing
with disfavour, they generally admit that it was an ancient practice
and that it was to be avoided in the kali age.


While the above evidence is indicative of the continuity of the
practice of beef eating, the lawgivers had already begun to discourage
it around the middle of the first millennium when the Indian society
began to be gradually feudalized leading to major socio-cultural
transformation. This phase of transition, first described in the epic
and Puranic passages as kaliyuga, saw many changes and modification in
social norms and customs. The Brahmanical religious texts now begin to
speak of many earlier practices as forbidden in the kaliyuga –
practices which came to be known as kalivarjyas. While the number of
kalivarjyas swelled up over time, most of the relevant texts mention
cow killing as forbidden in the kali. According to some early medieval
lawgivers a cow killer was an untouchable and one incurred sin even by
talking to him. They increasingly associated cow slaughter and beef
eating with the proliferating number of untouchable castes. It is,
however, interesting that some of them consider these acts as no more
than minor behavioural aberrations like cleaning one's teeth with
one's fingers and eating only salt or soil.[46]

Equally interesting is the fact that almost all the prescriptive texts
enumerate cow killing as a minor sin (upapataka) and none of them
describe it as a major offence (mahapataka). Moreover the Smrti texts
provide easy escape routes by laying down expiatory procedures for
intentional as well as inadvertent killing of the cow. This may imply
that that cattle killing may not have been uncommon in society and the
atonements were prescribed merely to discourage eating of cattle
flesh. To what extent the Dharmasastric injunctions were effective,
however, remains a matter of speculation; for the possibility of at
least some members eating beef on the sly cannot be ruled out. As
recently as the late 19th century Swami Vivekananda was alleged to
have eaten beef during his stay in America, though he vehemently
defended his action.[47] Similarly in early twentieth century Mahatma
Gandhi spoke of the hypocrisy of the orthodox Hindus who "do not so
much as hesitate or inquire when during illness the doctor …
prescribes them beef tea."[48] Even today 72 communities in Kerala--
not all of them untouchable perhaps--- prefer beef to the expensive
mutton and the Hindutva forces are persuading them to go easy on it.


Although cow killing and beef eating gradually came to be viewed as a
sin and a source of pollution from the early medieval period, the cow
and its products (milk, curds, clarified butter, dung and urine) or
their mixture called pancagavya had been assuming a purificatory role
from much earlier times. The Vedic texts attest to the ritual use of
cow's milk and milk products, but the term pancagavya occurs for the
first time in the Baudhayana Dharmasutra. The law books of Manu,
Visnu, Vasistha, Yajnavalkya and those of several later lawgivers like
Atri, Devala and Parasara mention the use of the mixture of the five
products of the cow for both purification and expiation. The
commentaries and religious digests, most of which belong to the
medieval period, abound in references to the purificatory role of the
pancagavya. The underlying assumption in all these cases is that the
pancagavya is pure. But several Dharmasastra texts forbid its use by
women and the lower castes. If a sudra drinks pancagavya, we are told,
he goes to hell.[50]

It is curious that the prescriptive texts, which repeatedly refer to
the purificatory role of the cow, also provide much evidence of the
notion of pollution and impurity associated with this animal.
According to Manu (V.125) the food smelt by the cow has to be
purified. Other early lawgivers like Visnu (XXIII.38) and Yajnavalkya
(I.189) also express similar views. The latter in fact says that while
the mouth of the goat and horse is pure that of the cow is not. Among
the later juridical texts, those of Angirasa, Parasara, Vyasa and so
on, support the idea of the cow's mouth being impure. The lawgiver
Sankha categorically states that all limbs of the cow are pure except
her mouth. The commentaries on different Dharmasastra texts reinforce
the notion of impurity of the cow's mouth. All this runs counter to
the ideas about the purificatory role of the cow.

Needless to say, then, that the image of the cow projected by Indian
textual traditions, especially the Brahmanical- Dharmasastric works,
over the centuries is polymorphic. Its story through the millennia is
full of inconsistencies and has not always been in conformity with
dietary practices prevalent in society. It was killed and yet the
killing was not killing. When it was not slain, mere remembering the
old practice of butchery satisfied the brahmins. Its five products
including faeces and urine have been pure but its mouth has not been
so. Yet through these incongruous attitudes and puzzling paradoxes the
Indian cow has struggled its way to sanctity. But its holiness is
elusive. For, there is no cow- goddess, nor any temple in her honour.
[51] Nevertheless the veneration of this animal has come to be viewed
as a characteristic trait of modern day non-existent monolithic
'Hinduism' bandied about by the Hindutva forces.

[1] L.L. Sundara Ram, Cow Protection in India, The South Indian
Humanitarian League, George Town, Madras, 1027, pp.122-123, 179-190.

[2] Siva Digvijaya quoted in Sundara Ram, op. cit. p.191.

[3] Sandria B. Freitag, "Contesting in Public: Colonial Legacies and
Contemporary Communalism", in David Ludden, ed., Making India Hindu,
Delhi: Oxford University Press, 1996, p.217.

[4] Idem, Collective Action and Community: Public Arena and the
Emergence of Communalism in North India, Delhi: Oxford University
Press, 1990, Chapter 6; Gyan Pandey, 'Rallying round the Cow', in
Subaltern Studies, Vol.. II, Ranajit Guha, (ed.), Delhi: Oxford
University Press, 1983, pp. 60- 129.

[5] Frederick J. Simoons, "Questions in the Sacred-Cow Controversy",
Current Anthropology, 20(3), September 1979, p.468.

[6] The Times of India, 28 May 1999, p.12.

[7] Frontline, 13 April 2001.

[8] Rajesh Ramachandran, "A Crisis of Identity", The Hindustan Times,
7 May 2000.

[9] W. Crooke, The Popular Religion and Folklore of Northern India, 2
Vols, Delhi: 4th reprint, Munshiram Manoharlal, 1978.

[10] W. Crooke, 'The Veneration of the Cow in India', Folklore, 13
(1912), pp.275-306.

[11] Sundara Ram, Cow Protection in India, Madras: The South Indian
Humanitarian League, 1927, p.8, passim.

[12] H.D. Sankalia, " (The Cow) In History", Seminar No. 93, May 1967.

[13] "Was the Cow Killed in Ancient India?" Quest, (75), March-
April 1972, pp. 83-87.

[16] J.C. Heesterman translates a passage of the Kathaka Samhita
(8.7:90.10) relating to the agnadheya as: 'they kill a cow, they play
a dice for [shares in] her, they serve her up to those seated in the
assembly hall': Broken World of Sacrifice, Chicago: University of
Chicago Press, 1993, p.283, note 33.

[17] Louis Renou, Vedic India, Varanasi, reprint, Indological Book
House, 1971 p.109.

[18] R.L. Mitra, Indo-Aryans: Contributions to the Elucidation of
Ancient and Medieval History, 2 Vols, Varanasi: reprint, Indological
Book House, 1969, p.363.

[19] A.B. Keith, Religion and Philosophy of the Veda and Upanisads,
Delhi: Indian reprint, Motilal Banarsidass, 1970, p.324; P.V. Kane,
History of Dharmasastra, II, pt.2, Chapter

[20] J. C. Heesterman, op.cit., pp. 190-93, 200-02.

[21] For different views see Hanns-Peter Schmidt, 'Ahimsa and
Rebirth' in Inside The Texts Beyond The Texts: New Approaches to the
Study of the Vedas, M. Witzel (ed.), Cambridge, Massachusetts, 1997,
pp. 209-10; Cf. J.C. Heesterman, 'Vratya and Sacrifice', Indo-Iranian
Journal, 6 (1962), pp. 1-37.

[22] William Norman Brown, 'The Sanctity of Cow in Hinduism', Madras
University Journal, 27.2 (1957), pp. 29-49.

[23] Medhatithi on Manu, V.27, 41 see Manava-Dharma-Sastra, ed., V.N.
Mandalik, Bombay, 1886, pp.604, 613.

[24] Brhaspatismrti cited in Krtyakalpataru of Laksmidhara,
trtiyabhaga, ed., K.V. Rangaswami Aiyangar, Baroda Oriental Institute,
Baroda,1950, p.326

[25] Contra Francis Zimmermann (The Jungle and the Aroma of Meats,
Berkeley: University of California Press, 1987, p.180ff) asserts that
only consecrated meat was eaten and Hanns Peter Schmidt seems to be in
agreement with him

('Ahimsa and Rebirth', op.cit., p.209). But the evidence from the
Buddhist Jatakas, Kautilya's Arthasastra, and Asokan inscriptions etc
does not support this view.

[26] Brhaspatismrti, 128b, Gaekwad Oriental Series, Baroda, 1941.

[27] For further references see S. Sorensen, An Index to the Names in
the Mahabharata, Delhi: Motilal Banarsidas, 1963, pp.593-94.

[28] R. L. Mitra, op.cit., vol.I, p. 396.

[29] Caraka Samhita: Sutrasthanam, II.31, XXVII.79: Susruta Samhita:
Sarirasthanam, III.25; Astanga Hrdayam: Sutrasthanam, VI.65.

[30] Meghaduta, with the commentary of Mallinatha, ed. and tr., M. R.
Kale (ed. & tr.), Delhi: Motilal Banarsidass, Delhi, 1979, I.48.

[31] Mahaviracarita, Rampratap Tripathi Shastri (ed. with Hindi tr.),
Allahabad: Lok Bharati Prakashan, 1973. III.2. Uttararamacarita, with
notes and the commentary of Ghanasyama, P.V. Kane and C. N. Joshi (ed.
and tr.), Delhi: Motilal Banarsidass, 1962, Act IV.

[32] Balaramayana, of Rajasekhara, Ganagasagar Rai (ed.) Varanasi:
Chowkhamba, 1984. I.38a

[33] Naisadhamahakavyam, with the commentary of Mallinatha, Haragovind
Shastri (ed.) Varanasi, Chowkhamba, 1981 XVII.173, 197.

[34] Naisadhacarita of Sri Harsa, K.K. Handiqui (tr. with
commentaries), Poona, Deccan College, 1965, p.472.

[35] Naisadhamahakavyam, p. 1137.

[36] Meghaduta, Kale's edn, p.83.

[37] Medhatithi on Manu, V.26-7,41. See Manava-Dharma-Sastra (with the
commentaries of Medhatithi, Sarvajnanarayana, Kulluka, Nandana and
Ramacandra), V. N. Mandalika (ed.), Bombay: Ganpat Krishnaji's Press,
1886, pp.604, 613.

[38] Visvarupa on Yajnavalkya, I. 108. See Yajnavalkyasmrti (with
the commentary Balakrida of Visvarupacarya), Mahamahopadhyaya T.
Ganapati Sastri (ed.), Delhi: 2nd edn, Munshiram Manoharlal, 1982, p.

[39] Mitaksara on Yajnavalkya, I. 108. See Yajnavalkyasmrti with
Vijnanesvara's Mitaksara, Gangasagar Rai (ed.), Delhi; Chowkhamba
Sanskrit Pratisthan, 1998, p.54.

[40] Haradatta on Gautama, XVII.30.

[41] Krtyakalpataru, Niyatakalakandam, trtiyabhagam, K.V. Rangaswami
Aiyangar (ed.), Baroda: Oriental Research Institute, 1950, p.190

[42] P. V. Kane, History of Dharmasastra, III, Poona: Bhandarkar
Oriental Research Institute, 1973, p.929.

[43] R. L. Mitra, op.cit., p.384.

[44] Mitra Misra on Yajnavalkya, I. 108.

[45] Palapiyusalata Gourisayantralaya, Darbhanga, Samvat 1951.

[46] Atrismrti, verse 314 in Astadasasmrtyah (with Hindi tr by
Sundarlal Tripathi, Khemraj Shrikrishnadas, Venkateshwar Steam Press,
Bombay, Saka 1846.

[47] Romain Rolland, The Life of Vivekanada and the Universal Gospel,
Advaita Ashrama, Calcutta, Eleventh Impression, August 1988, p.44 fn.

[48] M. K. Gandhi, An Autobiography or The Story of My Experiments
with Truth, Navajivan Trust, Ahmedabad, 1927, reprint 2000, p.324.
Gandhi saw a five-footed "miraculous" cow at the Kumbha Mela at
Allahabad in 1915, the fifth foot being nothing but "a foot cut off
from a live calf and grafted upon the shoulder of the cow" which
attracted the lavish charity of the ignorant Hindu (ibid., p.325).

[49] India Today, 15 April 1993, p.72.

[50] Visnusmrti, LIV.7; Atrismriti, verse 297, etc.

[51] A.L. Basham, The Wonder That Was India, Delhi, Rupa & Co., 27th
Impression, 1996, p.319.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It has been suggested that this article or section be merged with
Bhadrakali. (Discuss)

For other uses, see Kali (disambiguation).

"Kalika" redirects here. For other uses, see Kalika (disambiguation).
"The black one" redirects here. For the 2005 drone metal album, see
Black One. For the male choral group, see The Black Ones.

Kali (Sanskrit: काली, Bengali: কালী, both Kālī), also known as Kalika
(Bengali: কালিকা, Kālikā), is the Hindu goddess associated with
eternal energy. The name Kali comes from Kāla which means black, time,
death, lord of death, shiva etc. kAli means "the black one". Since
Shiva is called Kāla - the eternal Time, Kālī, his consort, also means
"the Time" or "Death" (as in time has come). Hence, Kali is considered
the goddess of time and change. Although sometimes presented as dark
and violent, her earliest incarnation as a figure of annihilation
still has some influence. More complex Tantric beliefs sometimes
extend her role so far as to be the "ultimate reality" or Brahman. She
is also revered as Bhavatarini (literally "redeemer of the universe").
Comparatively recent devotional movements largely conceive Kali as a
benevolent mother goddess.

Kali is represented as the consort of god Shiva, on whose body she is
often seen standing. She is associated with many other Hindu goddesses
like Durga, Bhadrakali, Sati, Rudrani, Parvati and Chamunda. She is
the foremost among the Dasa-Mahavidyas, ten fierce Tantric goddesses.


Kālī is the feminine of kāla "black, dark coloured" (per Pāṇini
4.1.42). In the Mundaka Upanishad Kali is mentioned as one of the
seven tongues of Agni, the Rigvedic God of Fire (Mundaka Upanishad
2:4), thus giving rise to Kali's tongue, seen in images. It appears as
the name of a form of Durga in the Mahabharata 4.195, and as the name
of an evil female spirit in Harivamsa 11552.

Kāla means black and also time, death, lord of death, shiva etc. kAli
means "the black one". Since Shiva is called Kāla - the eternal Time,
Kālī, his consort also means "the Time" or "Death" (as in time has
come). "कालः शिवः । तस्य पत्नीति - काली । kālaḥ śivaḥ । tasya patnīti
- kālī" - [from Shabdakalpadrum]. The association is seen in a passage
from the Mahābhārata, depicting a female figure who carries away the
spirits of slain warriors and animals. She is called kālarātri (which
Thomas Coburn, a historian of Sanskrit Goddess literature, translates
as "night of death") and also kālī (which, as Coburn notes, can be
read here either as a proper name or as a description "the black one").

Kali's association with blackness stands in contrast to her consort,
Shiva, whose body is covered by the white ashes of the cremation
ground (Sanskrit: śmaśāna) in which he meditates, and with which Kali
is also associated, as śmaśāna-kālī.


According to David Kinsley, Kali is first mentioned in Hinduism as a
distinct goddess, related to war, around 600 CE. Scriptures like Agni
Purana and Garuda Purana describe her terrible appearance and
associate her with corpses and war. The oldest mention of Kali dates
back to Rigvedic age. The 'Ratri Sookta' in Rigveda actually calls her
as Goddess 'Ratri' and regards Ratri as the Supreme force in the
universe. In the Tantras, she is regarded as the Shakti (Power) of The
Great Mahākāla (a form of Lord Shiva). Her portrayal on dead bodies in
crematorium symbolizes her presence in the hearts of devotees who have
killed their Earthly desires and want Supreme Consciousness in the lap
of the Ultimate Mother, Kali. In another form, she is regarded as the
destroyer, the Mahakali as Kali Tantra says-"kāli kālanāt" meaning
Kali is the one who finishes. Kalika Purana depicts her as the "Adi
Shakti" (Fundamental Power) and "Para Prakriti" or beyond nature.

In Tantra

Kali Yantra

Goddesses play an important role in the study and practice of Tantra
Yoga, and are affirmed to be as central to discerning the nature of
reality as are the male deities. Although Parvati is often said to be
the recipient and student of Shiva's wisdom in the form of Tantras, it
is Kali who seems to dominate much of the Tantric iconography, texts,
and rituals.[3] In many sources Kali is praised as the highest reality
or greatest of all deities. The Nirvana-tantra says the gods Brahma,
Vishnu, and Shiva all arise from her like bubbles in the sea,
ceaselessly arising and passing away, leaving their original source
unchanged. The Niruttara-tantra and the Picchila-tantra declare all of
Kali's mantras to be the greatest and the Yogini-tantra, Kamakhya-
tantra and the Niruttara-tantra all proclaim Kali vidyas
(manifestations of Mahadevi, or "divinity itself"). They declare her
to be an essence of her own form (svarupa) of the Mahadevi.[4]

In the Mahanirvana-tantra, Kali is one of the epithets for the
primordial sakti, and in one passage Shiva praises her:

At the dissolution of things, it is Kala [Time] Who will devour all,
and by reason of this He is called Mahakala [an epithet of Lord
Shiva], and since Thou devourest Mahakala Himself, it is Thou who art
the Supreme Primordial Kalika. Because Thou devourest Kala, Thou art
Kali, the original form of all things, and because Thou art the Origin
of and devourest all things Thou art called the Adya [primordial
Kali]. Resuming after Dissolution Thine own form, dark and formless,
Thou alone remainest as One ineffable and inconceivable. Though having
a form, yet art Thou formless; though Thyself without beginning,
multiform by the power of Maya, Thou art the Beginning of all,
Creatrix, Protectress, and Destructress that Thou art.[3]
The figure of Kali conveys death, destruction, and the consuming
aspects of reality. As such, she is also a "forbidden thing", or even
death itself. In the Pancatattva ritual, the sadhaka boldly seeks to
confront Kali, and thereby assimilates and transforms her into a
vehicle of salvation.[5] This is clear in the work of the Karpuradi-
stotra[6], a short praise to Kali describing the Pancatattva ritual
unto her, performed on cremation grounds. (Samahana-sadhana)

He, O Mahakali who in the cremation-ground, naked, and with
dishevelled hair, intently meditates upon Thee and recites Thy mantra,
and with each recitation makes offering to Thee of a thousand Akanda
flowers with seed, becomes without any effort a Lord of the earth. 0
Kali, whoever on Tuesday at midnight, having uttered Thy mantra, makes
offering even but once with devotion to Thee of a hair of his Sakti
[his female companion] in the cremation-ground, becomes a great poet,
a Lord of the earth, and ever goes mounted upon an elephant.[5]
The Karpuradi-stotra clearly indicates that Kali is more than a
terrible, vicious, slayer of demons who serves Durga or Shiva. Here,
she is identified as the supreme mistress of the universe, associated
with the five elements. In union with Lord Shiva, who is said to be
her spouse, she creates and destroys worlds. Her appearance also takes
a different turn, befitting her role as ruler of the world and object
of meditation.[7] In contrast to her terrible aspects, she takes on
hints of a more benign dimension. She is described as young and
beautiful, has a gentle smile, and makes gestures with her two right
hands to dispel any fear and offer boons. The more positive features
exposed offer the distillation of divine wrath into a goddess of
salvation, who rids the sadhaka of fear. Here, Kali appears as a
symbol of triumph over death.[8]

[edit] In Bengali tradition

Kali Puja festivalKali is also a central figure in late medieval
Bengali devotional literature, with such devotees as Ramprasad Sen
(1718–75). With the exception of being associated with Parvati as
Shiva's consort, Kali is rarely pictured in Hindu mythology and
iconography as a motherly figure until Bengali devotions beginning in
the early eighteenth century. Even in Bengali tradition her appearance
and habits change little, if at all.[9]

The Tantric approach to Kali is to display courage by confronting her
on cremation grounds in the dead of night, despite her terrible
appearance. In contrast, the Bengali devotee appropriates Kali's
teachings, adopting the attitude of a child. In both cases, the goal
of the devotee is to become reconciled with death and to learn
acceptance of the way that things are. These themes are well addressed
in Ramprasad's work.[10]

Ramprasad comments in many of his other songs that Kali is indifferent
to his wellbeing, causes him to suffer, brings his worldly desires to
nothing and his worldly goods to ruin. He also states that she does
not behave like a mother should and that she ignores his pleas:

Can mercy be found in the heart of her who was born of the stone? [a
reference to Kali as the daughter of Himalaya]
Were she not merciless, would she kick the breast of her lord?
Men call you merciful, but there is no trace of mercy in you, Mother.
You have cut off the heads of the children of others, and these you
wear as a garland around your neck.
It matters not how much I call you "Mother, Mother." You hear me, but
you will not listen.[11]
To be a child of Kali, Ramprasad asserts, is to be denied of earthly
delights and pleasures. Kali is said to not give what is expected. To
the devotee, it is perhaps her very refusal to do so that enables her
devotees to reflect on dimensions of themselves and of reality that go
beyond the material world.[11][12]

A significant portion of Bengali devotional music features Kali as its
central theme and is known as Shyama Sangeet. Mostly sung by male
vocalists, today even women have taken to this form of music. One of
the finest singers of Shyama Sangeet is Pannalal Bhattacharya.

In Bengal, Kali is venerated in the festival Kali Puja - the new moon
day of Ashwin month which coincides with Diwali festival.


Slayer of Raktabija

In Kali's most famous myth, Durga and her assistants, Matrikas, wound
the demon Raktabija, in various ways and with a variety of weapons, in
an attempt to destroy him. They soon find that they have worsened the
situation, as for every drop of blood that is spilt from Raktabija,
the demon reproduces a clone of himself. The battlefield becomes
increasingly filled with his duplicates.[13] Durga, in dire need of
help, summons Kali to combat the demons. It is also said that Goddess
Durga takes the form of Goddess Kali at this time.

The Devi Mahatmyam describes:

Out of the surface of her (Durga's) forehead, fierce with frown,
issued suddenly Kali of terrible countenance, armed with a sword and
noose. Bearing the strange khatvanga (skull-topped staff ), decorated
with a garland of skulls, clad in a tiger's skin, very appalling owing
to her emaciated flesh, with gaping mouth, fearful with her tongue
lolling out, having deep reddish eyes, filling the regions of the sky
with her roars, falling upon impetuously and slaughtering the great
asuras in that army, she devoured those hordes of the foes of the

Kali destroys Raktabija by sucking the blood from his body and putting
the many Raktabija duplicates in her gaping mouth. Pleased with her
victory, Kali then dances on the field of battle, stepping on the
corpses of the slain. Her consort Shiva lies among the dead beneath
her feet, a representation of Kali commonly seen in her iconography as

In the Devi Mahatmya version of this story, Kali is also described as
a Matrika and as a Shakti or power of Devi. She is given the epithet
Cāṃuṇḍā (Chamunda), i.e. the slayer of the demons Chanda and Munda.
[16] Chamunda is very often identified with Kali and is very much like
her in appearance and habit.[17]


Bhadrakali (A gentle form of Kali), circa 1675.
Painting; made in India, Himachal Pradesh, Basohli,

now placed in LACMA.In her most famous pose as Daksinakali, it is said
that Kali, becoming drunk on the blood of her victims on the
battlefield, dances with destructive frenzy. In her fury she fails to
see the body of her husband, Shiva, who lies among the corpses on the
battlefield.[18] Ultimately the cries of Shiva attract Kali's
attention, calming her fury. As a sign of her shame at having
disrespected her husband in such a fashion, Kali sticks out her
tongue. However, some sources state that this interpretation is a
later version of the symbolism of the tongue: in tantric contexts, the
tongue is seen to denote the element (guna) of rajas (energy and
action) controlled by sattva, spiritual and godly creatures who served
as assassins.[19]

One South Indian tradition tells of a dance contest between Shiva and
Kali. After defeating the two demons Sumbha and Nisumbha, Kali takes
up residence in a forest. With fierce companions she terrorizes the
surrounding area. One of Shiva's devotees becomes distracted while
performing austerities, and asks Shiva to rid the forest of the
destructive goddess. When Shiva arrives, Kali threatens him, claiming
the territory as her own. Shiva challenges Kali to a dance contest,
and defeats her when she is unable to perform the energetic Tandava
dance. Although in this case Kali is defeated, and is forced to
control her disruptive habits, there are very few other images or
other myths depicting her in such a manner.[20]

Maternal Kali

Another myth depicts the infant Shiva calming Kali. In this similar
story, Kali again defeated her enemies on the battlefield and began to
dance out of control, drunk on the blood of the slain. To calm her
down and to protect the stability of the world, Shiva is sent to the
battlefield, as an infant, crying aloud. Seeing the child's distress,
Kali ceases dancing to take care of the helpless infant. She picks him
up, kisses his head, and proceeds to breast feed the infant Shiva.[21]
This myth depicts Kali in her benevolent, maternal aspect; something
that is revered in Hinduism, but not often recognized in the West.

Ekamukhi or "One-Faced" Murti of Mahakali displaying ten hands holding
the signifiers of various Devas


Main article: Mahakali

Mahakali (Sanskrit: Mahākālī, Devanagari: महाकाली), literally
translated as Great Kali, is sometimes considered as a greater form of
Kali, identified with the Ultimate reality of Brahman. It can also
simply be used as an honorific of the Goddess Kali,[22] signifying her
greatness by the prefix "Mahā-". Mahakali, in Sanskrit, is
etymologically the feminized variant of Mahakala or Great Time (which
is interpreted also as Death), an epithet of the God Shiva in
Hinduism. Mahakali is the presiding Goddess of the first episode of
the Devi Mahatmya. Here she is depicted as Devi in her universal form
as Shakti. Here Devi serves as the agent who allows the cosmic order
to be restored.


Statue from Dakshineswar Kali Temple, West Bengal, India; along with
her Yantra.Kali is portrayed mostly in two forms: the popular four-
armed form and the ten-armed Mahakali form. In both of her forms, she
is described as being black in color but is most often depicted as
blue in popular Indian art. Her eyes are described as red with
intoxication, and in absolute rage, her hair is shown disheveled,
small fangs sometimes protrude out of her mouth, and her tongue is
lolling. She is often shown naked or just wearing a skirt made of
human arms and a garland of human heads. She is also accompanied by
serpents and a jackal while standing on a seemingly dead Shiva,
usually right foot forward to symbolize the more popular Dakshinamarga
or right-handed path, as opposed to the more infamous and
transgressive Vamamarga or left-handed path.[23]

In the ten-armed form of Mahakali she is depicted as shining like a
blue stone. She has ten faces and ten feet and three eyes. She has
ornaments decked on all her limbs. There is no association with Shiva.

The Kalika Purana describes Kali as possessing a soothing dark
complexion, as perfectly beautiful, riding a lion, four-armed, holding
a sword and blue lotuses, her hair unrestrained, body firm and

In spite of her seemingly terrible form, Kali Ma is often considered
the kindest and most loving of all the Hindu goddesses, as she is
regarded by her devotees as the Mother of the whole Universe. And,
because of her terrible form she is also often seen as a great
protector. When the Bengali saint Ramakrishna once asked a devotee why
one would prefer to worship Mother over him, this devotee rhetorically
replied, "Maharaj, when they are in trouble your devotees come running
to you. But, where do you run when you are in trouble?"[26]

According to Ramakrishna, darkness is the Ultimate Mother, or Kali:

My Mother is the principle of consciousness. She is Akhanda
Satchidananda; indivisible Reality, Awareness, and Bliss. The night
sky between the stars is perfectly black. The waters of the ocean
depths are the same; The infinite is always mysteriously dark. This
inebriating darkness is my beloved Kali.

-Sri Ramakrishna

Throughout her history artists the world over have portrayed Kali in
myriad poses and settings, some of which stray far from the popular
description, and are sometimes even graphically sexual in nature.
Given the popularity of this Goddess, artists everywhere will continue
to explore the magnificence of Kali's iconography. This is clear in
the work of such contemporary artists as Charles Wish, and Tyeb Mehta,
who sometimes take great liberties with the traditional, accepted
symbolism, but still demonstrate a true reverence for the Shakta sect.

Popular form

Classic depictions of Kali share several features, as follows:

Kali's most common four armed iconographic image shows each hand
carrying variously a sword, a trishul (trident), a severed head and a
bowl or skull-cup (kapala) catching the blood of the severed head.

Two of these hands (usually the left) are holding a sword and a
severed head. The Sword signifies Divine Knowledge and the Human Head
signifies human Ego which must be slain by Divine Knowledge in order
to attain Moksha. The other two hands (usually the right) are in the
abhaya (fearlessness) and varada (blessing) mudras, which means her
initiated devotees (or anyone worshiping her with a true heart) will
be saved as she will guide them here and in the hereafter.[27]

She has a garland consisting of human heads, variously enumerated at
108 (an auspicious number in Hinduism and the number of countable
beads on a Japa Mala or rosary for repetition of Mantras) or 51, which
represents Varnamala or the Garland of letters of the Sanskrit
alphabet, Devanagari. Hindus believe Sanskrit is a language of
dynamism, and each of these letters represents a form of energy, or a
form of Kali. Therefore she is generally seen as the mother of
language, and all mantras.[28]

She is often depicted naked which symbolizes her being beyond the
covering of Maya since she is pure (nirguna) being-consciousness-bliss
and far above prakriti. She is shown as very dark as she is brahman in
its supreme unmanifest state. She has no permanent qualities — she
will continue to exist even when the universe ends. It is therefore
believed that the concepts of color, light, good, bad do not apply to
her — she is the pure, un-manifested energy, the Adi-shakti.[29]

[edit] Mahakali form

The Dasamukhi MahakaliKali is depicted in the Mahakali form as having
ten heads, ten arms, and ten legs. Each of her ten hands is carrying a
various implement which vary in different accounts, but each of these
represent the power of one of the Devas or Hindu Gods and are often
the identifying weapon or ritual item of a given Deva. The implication
is that Mahakali subsumes and is responsible for the powers that these
deities possess and this is in line with the interpretation that
Mahakali is identical with Brahman. While not displaying ten heads, an
"ekamukhi" or one headed image may be displayed with ten arms,
signifying the same concept: the powers of the various Gods come only
through Her grace.

Shiva in Kali iconography

In both these images she is shown standing on the prone, inert or dead
body of Shiva. There is a mythological story for the reason behind her
standing on what appears to be Shiva's corpse, which translates as

Once Kali had destroyed all the demons in battle, she began a terrific
dance out of the sheer joy of victory. All the worlds or lokas began
to tremble and sway under the impact of her dance. So, at the request
of all the Gods, Shiva himself asked her to desist from this behavior.
However, she was too intoxicated to listen. Hence, Shiva lay like a
corpse among the slain demons in order to absorb the shock of the
dance into himself. When Kali eventually stepped upon her husband she
realized her mistake and bit her tongue in shame.[30]

The Tantric interpretation of Kali standing on top of her husband is
as follows:

The Shiv tattava (Divine Consciousness as Shiva) is inactive, while
the Shakti tattava (Divine Energy as Kali) is active. Shiva, or
Mahadeva represents Brahman, the Absolute pure consciousness which is
beyond all names, forms and activities. Kali, on the other hand,
represents the potential (and manifested) energy responsible for all
names, forms and activities. She is his Shakti, or creative power, and
is seen as the substance behind the entire content of all
consciousness. She can never exist apart from Shiva or act
independently of him, i.e., Shakti, all the matter/energy of the
universe, is not distinct from Shiva, or Brahman, but is rather the
dynamic power of Brahman.[31]

Kali in Traditional Form, standing on Shiva's chest.While this is an
advanced concept in monistic Shaktism, it also agrees with the Nondual
Trika philosophy of Kashmir, popularly known as Kashmir Shaivism and
associated most famously with Abhinavagupta. There is a colloquial
saying that "Shiva without Shakti is Shava" which means that without
the power of action (Shakti) that is Mahakali (represented as the
short "i" in Devanagari) Shiva (or consciousness itself) is inactive;
Shava means corpse in Sanskrit and the play on words is that all
Sanskrit consonants are assumed to be followed by a short letter "a"
unless otherwise noted. The short letter "i" represents the female
power or Shakti that activates Creation. This is often the explanation
for why She is standing on Shiva, who is either Her husband and
complement in Shaktism or the Supreme Godhead in Shaivism.

To properly understand this complex Tantric symbolism it is important
to remember that the meaning behind Shiva and Kali does not stray from
the non-dualistic parlance of Shankara or the Upanisads. According to
both the Mahanirvana and Kularnava Tantras, there are two distinct
ways of perceiving the same absolute reality. The first is a
transcendental plane which is often described as static, yet infinite.
It is here that there is no matter, there is no universe and only
consciousness exists. This form of reality is known as Shiva, the
absolute Sat-Chit-Ananda — existence, knowledge and bliss. The second
is an active plane, an immanent plane, the plane of matter, of Maya,
i.e., where the illusion of space-time and the appearance of an actual
universe does exist. This form of reality is known as Kali or Shakti,
and (in its entirety) is still specified as the same Absolute Sat-Chit-
Ananda. It is here in this second plane that the universe (as we
commonly know it) is experienced and is described by the Tantric seer
as the play of Shakti, or God as Mother Kali.[32]

Kali and Bhairava (the terrible form of Shiva) in Union, 18th century,
NepalFrom a Tantric perspective, when one meditates on reality at
rest, as absolute pure consciousness (without the activities of
creation, preservation or dissolution) one refers to this as Shiva or
Brahman. When one meditates on reality as dynamic and creative, as the
Absolute content of pure consciousness (with all the activities of
creation, preservation or dissolution) one refers to it as Kali or
Shakti. However, in either case the yogini or yogi is interested in
one and the same reality — the only difference being in name and
fluctuating aspects of appearance. It is this which is generally
accepted as the meaning of Kali standing on the chest of Shiva.[31]

Although there is often controversy surrounding the images of divine
copulation, the general consensus is benign and free from any carnal
impurities in its substance. In Tantra the human body is a symbol for
the microcosm of the universe; therefore sexual process is responsible
for the creation of the world. Although theoretically Shiva and Kali
(or Shakti) are inseparable, like fire and its power to burn, in the
case of creation they are often seen as having separate roles. With
Shiva as male and Kali as female it is only by their union that
creation may transpire. This reminds us of the prakrti and purusa
doctrine of Samkhya wherein prakāśa- vimarśa has no practical value,
just as without prakrti, purusa is quite inactive. This (once again)
stresses the interdependencies of Shiva and Shakti and the vitality of
their union.[33]

Gopi Krishna proposed that Kali standing on the dead Shiva or Shava
(Sanskrit for dead body) symbolised the helplessness of a person
undergoing the changing process (psychologically and physiologically)
in the body conducted by the Kundalini Shakti.[34]


In the later traditions, Kali has become inextricably linked with
Shiva. The unleashed form of Kali often becomes wild and
uncontrollable, and only Shiva is able to tame her. This is both
because she is often a transformed version of one of his consorts and
because he is able to match her wildness. The ancient text of Kali
Kautuvam describes her competition with Shiva in dance, from which the
sacred 108 Karanas appeared. Shiva won the competition by acting the
urdva tandava, one of the Karanas, by raising his feet to his head.
Other texts describe Shiva appearing as a crying infant and appealing
to her maternal instincts. While Shiva is said to be able to tame her,
the iconography often presents her dancing on his fallen body, and
there are accounts of the two of them dancing together, and driving
each other to such wildness that the world comes close to unravelling.

Shiva's involvement with Tantra and Kali's dark nature have led to her
becoming an important Tantric figure. To the Tantric worshippers, it
was essential to face her Curse, the terror of death, as willingly as
they accepted Blessings from her beautiful, nurturing, maternal
aspect. For them, wisdom meant learning that no coin has only one
side: as death cannot exist without life, so life cannot exist without
death. Kali's role sometimes grew beyond that of a chaos — which could
be confronted — to that of one who could bring wisdom, and she is
given great metaphysical significance by some Tantric texts. The
Nirvāna-tantra clearly presents her uncontrolled nature as the
Ultimate Reality, claiming that the trimurti of Brahma, Visnu and
Rudra arise and disappear from her like bubbles from the sea. Although
this is an extreme case, the Yogini-tantra, Kamakhya-tantra and the
Niruttara-tantra declare her the svarupa (own-being) of the Mahadevi
(the great Goddess, who is in this case seen as the combination of all

The final stage of development is the worshipping of Kali as the Great
Mother, devoid of her usual violence. This practice is a break from
the more traditional depictions. The pioneers of this tradition are
the 18th century Shakta poets such as Ramprasad Sen, who show an
awareness of Kali's ambivalent nature. Ramakrishna, the 19th century
Bengali saint, was also a great devotee of Kali; the western
popularity of whom may have contributed to the more modern, equivocal
interpretations of this Goddess. Rachel McDermott's work, however,
suggests that for the common, modern worshipper, Kali is not seen as
fearful, and only those educated in old traditions see her as having a
wrathful component. Some credit to the development of Devi must also
be given to Samkhya. Commonly referred to as the Devi of delusion,
Mahamaya, acting in the confines of (but not being bound by) the
nature of the three gunas, takes three forms: Maha-Kali, Maha-Lakshmi
and Maha-Saraswati, being her tamas-ika, rajas-ika and sattva-ika
forms. In this sense, Kali is simply part of a larger whole.

1947 TIME Magazine cover by Boris Artzybasheff depicting a self-
hurting Kālī as a symbol of the partition of IndiaLike Sir John
Woodroffe and Georg Feuerstein, many Tantric scholars (as well as
sincere practitioners) agree that, no matter how propitious or
appalling you describe them, Shiva and Devi are simply recognizable
symbols for everyday, abstract (yet tangible) concepts such as
perception, knowledge, space-time, causation and the process of
liberating oneself from the confines of such things. Shiva,
symbolizing pure, absolute consciousness, and Devi, symbolizing the
entire content of that consciousness, are ultimately one and the same
— totality incarnate, a micro-macro-cosmic amalgamation of all
subjects, all objects and all phenomenal relations between the "two."
Like man and woman who both share many common, human traits yet at the
same time they are still different and, therefore, may also be seen as

Worshippers prescribe various benign and horrific qualities to Devi
simply out of practicality. They do this so they may have a variety of
symbols to choose from, symbols which they can identify and relate
with from the perspective of their own, ever-changing time, place and
personal level of unfolding. Just like modern chemists or physicists
use a variety of molecular and atomic models to describe what is
unperceivable through rudimentary, sensory input, the scientists of
ontology and epistemology must do the same. One of the underlying
distinctions of Tantra, in comparison to other religions, is that it
allows the devotee the liberty to choose from a vast array of
complementary symbols and rhetoric that which suits one's evolving
needs and tastes. From an aesthetic standpoint, nothing is interdict
and nothing is orthodox. In this sense, the projection of some of
Devi's more gentle qualities onto Kali is not sacrilege and the
development of Kali really lies in the practitioner, not the murthi.

A TIME magazine article of October 27, 1947, used Kālī as a symbol and
metaphor for the human suffering in British India during its partition
that year.[36]

In New Age and Neopaganism

An academic study of Western Kali enthusiasts noted that, "as shown in
the histories of all cross-cultural religious transplants, Kali
devotionalism in the West must take on its own indigenous forms if it
is to adapt to its new environment."[37] The adoption of Kali by the
West has raised accusations of cultural misappropriation:

"A variety of writers and thinkers [...] have found Kali an exciting
figure for reflection and exploration, notably feminists and
participants in New Age spirituality who are attracted to goddess
worship. [For them], Kali is a symbol of wholeness and healing,
associated especially with repressed female power and sexuality.
[However, such interpretations often exhibit] confusion and
misrepresentation, stemming from a lack of knowledge of Hindu history
among these authors, [who only rarely] draw upon materials written by
scholars of the Hindu religious tradition. The majority instead rely
chiefly on other popular feminist sources, almost none of which base
their interpretations on a close reading of Kali's Indian background.
[...] The most important issue arising from this discussion – even
more important than the question of 'correct' interpretation –
concerns the adoption of other people's religious symbols. [...] It is
hard to import the worship of a goddess from another culture:
religious associations and connotations have to be learned, imagined
or intuited when the deep symbolic meanings embedded in the native
culture are not available."[38]

Gerald Gardner was reportedly particularly interested in Kali whilst
he was in the far east, before returning to England to write his
seminal works on Wicca[citation needed].


^ Encyclopedia International, by Grolier Incorporated Copyright in
Canada 1974. AE5.E447 1974 031 73-11206 ISBN 0-7172-0705-6 page 95
^ Mahābhārata 10.8.64-69, cited in Coburn, Thomas; Devī-Māhātmya —
Crystallization of the Goddess Tradition; Motilal Banarsidass, Delhi,
1984; ISBN 81-208-0557-7 pages 111–112.
^ a b D. Kinsley p. 122.
^ D. Kinsley p. 122–123.
^ a b D. Kinsley p. 124.
^ Karpuradi Stotra, Tantrik Texts Vol IX, Arthur Avalon (Sir John
Woodroffe), Calcutta Agamanusandhana Samiti, 1922.
^ D. Kinsley p. 124–125.
^ D. Kinsley p. 125.
^ D. Kinsley p. 126.
^ D. Kinsley p.125–126.
^ a b D. Kinsley p. 128.
^ & Images of Kali
^ D. Kinsley p. 118.
^ Devi Mahatmyam, Swami Jagadiswarananda, Ramakrishna Math, 1953.
^ D. Kinsley p. 118–119.
^ Wangu p. 72.
^ Kinsley p. 241 Footnotes.
^ D. Kinsley pp. 119, 130.
^ McDermott 2003.
^ D. Kinsley p. 119.
^ D. Kinsley p. 131.
^ Offering Flowers, Feeding Skulls By June McDaniel p.257
^ The Art of Tantra, Philip Rawson, Thames & Hudson, 1973.
^ Sankaranarayanan. S. Devi Mahatmya. p 127.
^ David Gordon White (ed.), Tantra in Practice, ISBN 81-208-1778-8
^ Sri Ramakrishna (The Great Master), Swami Saradananda, Ramakrishna
Math, 1952, page 624, Sri Ramakrishna: The Spiritual Glow, Kamalpada
Hati, P.K. Pramanik, Orient Book Co., 1985, pages 17–18.
^ Tantra in Practice, David Gordon White, Princeton Press, 2000, page
^ Tantra in Practice, David Gordon White, Princeton Press, 2000, page
^ Tantra in Practice, David Gordon White, Princeton Press, 2000, page
^ Hindu Gods & Goddesses, Swami Harshananda, Ramakrishna Math, 1981,
pages 116–117.
^ a b Tantra (The Path of Ecstasy), Georg Feuerstein, Shambhala, 1998,
pages 70–84, Shakti and Shâkta, Arthur Avalon (Sir John Woodroffe),
Oxford Press/Ganesha & Co., 1918.
^ Tantra in Practice, David Gordon White, Princeton Press, 2000, page
463–488, Shakti and Shâkta, Arthur Avalon (Sir John Woodroffe), Oxford
Press/Ganesha & Co., 1918.
^ Impact of Tantra on Religion & Art, T. N. Mishra, D.K. Print World,
1997, V.
^ Krishna, Gopi (1993)Living with Kundalini: (Shambhala, 1993 ISBN
^ Tantra (The Path of Ecstasy), Georg Feuerstein, Shambhala, 1998,
Shakti and Shâkta, Arthur Avalon (Sir John Woodroffe), Oxford Press/
Ganesha & Co., 1918.
^ The Trial of Kali, TIME Magazine, October 27, 1947.
^ McDermott, Rachel Fell, "The Western Kali", in Hawley, John Stratton
& Wulff, Donna M., Devi: The Goddess in India, p. 305.
^ McDermott, Rachel Fell, "The Western Kali", in Hawley, John Stratton
& Wulff, Donna M., Devi: The Goddess in India, pp. 281–305.
Shakti and Shâkta, Arthur Avalon (Sir John Woodroffe), Oxford Press/
Ganesha & Co., 1918
Sri Ramakrishna (The Great Master), Swami Saradananda, Ramakrishna
Devi Mahatmyam, Swami Jagadiswarananda, Ramakrishna Math, 1953
The Art of Tantra, Philip Rawson, Thames & Hudson, 1973
Hindu Gods & Goddesses, Swami Harshananda, Ramakrishna Math, 1981
Sri Ramakrishna: The Spiritual Glow, Kamalpada Hati, P.K. Pramanik,
Orient Book Co., 1985
Hindu Goddesses, David R. Kinsley, University of California Press,
Kali (The Black Goddess of Dakshineswar) Elizabeth U. Harding, Nicolas
Hays, 1993
Impact of Tantra on Religion & Art, T. N. Mishra, D.K. Print World,
Indian Art (revised), Roy C. Craven, Thames & Hudson, 1997
A Dictionary of Buddhist & Hindu Iconography (Illustrated), Frederick
W. Bunce, D.K. Print World, 1997
Tantra (The Path of Ecstasy), Georg Feuerstein, Shambhala, 1998
Oxford Concise Dictionary of World Religions, John Bowker, Oxford
Press, 2000
Tantra in Practice, David Gordon White, Princeton Press, 2000
Encountering Kali (In the margins, at the center, in the west), Rachel
Fell McDermott, Berkeley : University of California Press, 2003
[edit] Further reading
Shanmukha Anantha Natha and Shri Ma Kristina Baird, Divine Initiation
Shri Kali Publications (2001) ISBN 0-9582324-0-7 - Has a chapter on
Mahadevi with a commentary on the Devi Mahatmyam from the Markandeya
Swami Jagadiswarananda, tr., Devi Mahatmyam Chennai, Ramakrishna Math.
ISBN 81-7120-139-3
Elizabeth Usha Harding, Kali: The Black Goddess of Dakshineswar ISBN
Devadatta Kali, In Praise of The Goddess, The Devimahatmyam and Its
Meaning ISBN 0-89254-080-X
David Kinsley, Hindu Goddesses: Vision of the Divine Feminine in the
Hindu Religious Traditions ISBN 81-208-0379-5
Rachel Fell McDermott, Encountering Kali: In the Margins, at the
Center, in the West (ISBN 0-520-23240-2)
Ajit Mookerjee, Kali: The Feminine Force ISBN 0-89281-212-5
Swami Satyananda Saraswati, Kali Puja ISBN 1-887472-64-9
Ramprasad Sen, Grace and Mercy in Her Wild Hair: Selected Poems to the
Mother Goddess ISBN 0-934252-94-7
Sir John Woodroffe (aka Arthur Avalon)Hymns to the Goddess and Hymn to
Kali ISBN 81-85988-16-1
Robert E. Svoboda, Aghora, at the left hand of God ISBN 0-914732-21-8
Dimitri Kitsikis, L'Orocc, dans l'âge de Kali ISBN 2-89040-359-9
Lex Hixon, Mother of the Universe: Visions of the Goddess and Tantric
Hymns of Enlightenment ISBN 0-8356-0702-X
Neela Bhattacharya Saxena, In the Beginning is Desire: Tracing Kali's
Footprints in Indian Literature ISBN 818798161X
The Goddess Kali of Kolkata (ISBN 81-7476-514-X) by Shoma A.
Encountering The Goddess: A Translation of the Devi-Mahatmya and a
Study of Its Interpretation (ISBN 0-7914-0446-3) by Thomas B. Coburn
Dictionary of Hindu Lore and Legend (ISBN 0-500-51088-1) by Anna
Kali: The Black Goddess of Dakshineswar (ISBN 0-89254-025-7) by
Elizabeth Usha Harding
In Praise of The Goddess: The Devimahatmyam and Its Meaning (ISBN
0-89254-080-X) by Devadatta Kali
Hindu Goddesses: Vision of the Divine Feminine in the Hindu Religious
Traditions (ISBN 81-208-0379-5) by David Kinsley
Tantric Visions of the Divine Feminine (ISBN 0-520-20499-9) by David
Offering Flowers, Feeding Skulls: Popular Goddess Worship in West
Bengal (ISBN 0-195-16791-0) by June McDaniel
Encountering Kali: In the Margins, at the Center, in the West (ISBN
0-520-23240-2) by Rachel Fell McDermott
Mother of My Heart, Daughter of My Dreams: Kali and Uma in the
Devotional Poetry of Bengal (ISBN 0-19-513435-4) by Rachel Fell
Kali: The Feminine Force (ISBN 0-89281-212-5) by Ajit Mookerjee
Seeking Mahadevi: Constructing the Identities of the Hindu Great
Goddess (ISBN 0-791-45008-2) Edited by Tracy Pintchman
The Rise of the Goddess in the Hindu Tradition (ISBN 0-7914-2112-0) by
Tracy Pintchman

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Kali at the Open Directory Project

Goddess as Kali - The Feminine Force in Indian Art
Article of the Month - August 2000 Printer Friendly Version
PDF (Acrobat) - 382 kb

Share this Page with a friend The worship of a mother goddess as the
source of life and fertility has prehistoric roots, but the
transformation of that deity into a Great goddess of cosmic powers was
achieved with the composition of the Devi Mahatmya (Glory of the
goddess), a text of the fifth to sixth century, when worship of the
female principle took on dramatic new dimensions. The goddess is not
only the mysterious source of life, she is the very soil, all-creating
and all consuming.

Kali makes her 'official' debut in the Devi-Mahatmya, where she is
said to have emanated from the brow of Goddess Durga (slayer of
demons) during one of the battles between the divine and anti-divine
forces. Etymologically Durga's name means "Beyond Reach". She is thus
an echo of the woman warrior's fierce virginal autonomy. In this
context Kali is considered the 'forceful' form of the great goddess

Kali is represented as a Black woman with four arms; in one hand she
has a sword, in another the head of the demon she has slain, with the
other two she is encouraging her worshippers. For earrings she has two
dead bodies and wears a necklace of skulls ; her only clothing is a
girdle made of dead men's hands, and her tongue protrudes from her
mouth. Her eyes are red, and her face and breasts are besmeared with
blood. She stands with one foot on the thigh, and another on the
breast of her husband.

Kali's fierce appearances have been the subject of extensive
descriptions in several earlier and modern works. Though her fierce
form is filled with awe- inspiring symbols, their real meaning is not
what it first appears- they have equivocal significance:

Kali's blackness symbolizes her all-embracing, comprehensive nature,
because black is the color in which all other colors merge; black
absorbs and dissolves them. 'Just as all colors disappear in black, so
all names and forms disappear in her' (Mahanirvana Tantra). Or black
is said to represent the total absence of color, again signifying the
nature of Kali as ultimate reality. This in Sanskrit is named as
nirguna (beyond all quality and form). Either way, Kali's black color
symbolizes her transcendence of all form.

A devotee poet says:

"Is Kali, my Divine Mother, of a black complexion?
She appears black because She is viewed from a distance;
but when intimately known She is no longer so.
The sky appears blue at a distance, but look at it close by
and you will find that it has no colour.
The water of the ocean looks blue at a distance,
but when you go near and take it in your hand,
you find that it is colourless."

... Ramakrishna Paramhansa (1836-86)

Kali's nudity has a similar meaning. In many instances she is
described as garbed in space or sky clad. In her absolute, primordial
nakedness she is free from all covering of illusion. She is Nature
(Prakriti in Sanskrit), stripped of 'clothes'. It symbolizes that she
is completely beyond name and form, completely beyond the illusory
effects of maya (false consciousness). Her nudity is said to represent
totally illumined consciousness, unaffected by maya. Kali is the
bright fire of truth, which cannot be hidden by the clothes of
ignorance. Such truth simply burns them away.

She is full-breasted; her motherhood is a ceaseless creation. Her
disheveled hair forms a curtain of illusion, the fabric of space -
time which organizes matter out of the chaotic sea of quantum-foam.
Her garland of fifty human heads, each representing one of the fifty
letters of the Sanskrit alphabet, symbolizes the repository of
knowledge and wisdom. She wears a girdle of severed human hands- hands
that are the principal instruments of work and so signify the action
of karma. Thus the binding effects of this karma have been overcome,
severed, as it were, by devotion to Kali. She has blessed the devotee
by cutting him free from the cycle of karma. Her white teeth are
symbolic of purity (Sans. Sattva), and her lolling tongue which is red
dramatically depicts the fact that she consumes all things and denotes
the act of tasting or enjoying what society regards as forbidden, i.e.
her indiscriminate enjoyment of all the world's "flavors".

Kali's four arms represent the complete circle of creation and
destruction, which is contained within her. She represents the
inherent creative and destructive rhythms of the cosmos. Her right
hands, making the mudras of "fear not" and conferring boons, represent
the creative aspect of Kali, while the left hands, holding a bloodied
sword and a severed head represent her destructive aspect. The
bloodied sword and severed head symbolize the destruction of ignorance
and the dawning of knowledge. The sword is the sword of knowledge,
that cuts the knots of ignorance and destroys false consciousness (the
severed head). Kali opens the gates of freedom with this sword, having
cut the eight bonds that bind human beings. Finally her three eyes
represent the sun, moon, and fire, with which she is able to observe
the three modes of time: past, present and future. This attribute is
also the origin of the name Kali, which is the feminine form of
'Kala', the Sanskrit term for Time.

Another symbolic but controversial aspect of Kali is her proximity to
the cremation ground:

O Kali, Thou art fond of cremation grounds;
so I have turned my heart into one
That thou, a resident of cremation grounds,
may dance there unceasingly.
O Mother! I have no other fond desire in my heart;
fire of a funeral pyre is burning there;
O Mother! I have preserved the ashes of dead bodies all around
that Thou may come.
O Mother! Keeping Shiva, conqueror of Death, under Thy feet,
Come, dancing to the tune of music;
Prasada waits With his eyes closed

... Ramprasad (1718-75)

Kali's dwelling place, the cremation ground denotes a place where the
five elements (Sanskrit: pancha mahabhuta) are dissolved. Kali dwells
where dissolution takes place. In terms of devotion and worship, this
denotes the dissolving of attachments, anger, lust, and other binding
emotions, feelings, and ideas. The heart of the devotee is where this
burning takes place, and it is in the heart that Kali dwells. The
devotee makes her image in his heart and under her influence burns
away all limitations and ignorance in the cremation fires. This inner
cremation fire in the heart is the fire of knowledge, (Sanskrit:
gyanagni), which Kali bestows.

The image of a recumbent Shiva lying under the feet of Kali represents
Shiva as the passive potential of creation and Kali as his Shakti. The
generic term Shakti denotes the Universal feminine creative principle
and the energizing force behind all male divinity including Shiva.
Shakti is known by the general name Devi, from the root 'div', meaning
to shine. She is the Shining One, who is given different names in
different places and in different appearances, as the symbol of the
life-giving powers of the Universe. It is she that powers him. This
Shakti is expressed as the i in Shiva's name. Without this i, Shiva
becomes Shva, which in Sanskrit means a corpse. Thus suggesting that
without his Shakti, Shiva is powerless or inert.

Kali is a particularly appropriate image for conveying the idea of the
world as the play of the gods. The spontaneous, effortless, dizzying
creativity of the divine reflex is conveyed in her wild appearance.
Insofar as kali is identified with the phenomenal world, she presents
a picture of that world that underlies its ephemeral and unpredictable
nature. In her mad dancing, disheveled hair, and eerie howl there is
made present the hint of a world reeling, careening out of control.
The world is created and destroyed in Kali's wild dancing, and the
truth of redemption lies in man's awareness that he is invited to take
part in that dance, to yield to the frenzied beat of the Mother's
dance of life and death.

O Kali, my Mother full of Bliss! Enchantress of the almighty Shiva!
In Thy delirious joy Thou dancest, clapping Thy hands together!
Thou art the Mover of all that move, and we are but Thy helpless toys

...Ramakrishna Paramhans

Kali and her attendants dance to rhythms pounded out by Shiva (Lord of
destruction) and his animal-headed attendants who dwell in the
Himalayas. Associated with chaos and uncontrollable destruction,
Kali's own retinue brandishes swords and holds aloft skull cups from
which they drink the blood that intoxicates them. Kali, like Shiva,
has a third eye, but in all other respects the two are distinguished
from one another. In contrast to Shiva's sweet expression, plump body,
and ash white complexion, dark kali's emaciated limbs, angular
gestures, and fierce grimace convey a wild intensity. Her loose hair,
skull garland, and tiger wrap whip around her body as she stomps and
claps to the rhythm of the dance.

Many stories describe Kali's dance with Shiva as one that "threatens
to destroy the world" by its savage power. Art historian Stella
Kramrisch has noted that the image of kali dancing with Shiva follows
closely the myth of the demon Daruka. When Shiva asks his wife Parvati
to destroy this demon, she enters Shiva's body and transforms herself
from the poison that is stored in his throat. She emerges from Shiva
as Kali, ferocious in appearance, and with the help of her flesh
eating retinue attacks and defeats the demon. Kali however became so
intoxicated by the blood lust of battle that her aroused fury and wild
hunger threatened to destroy the whole world. She continued her
ferocious rampage until Shiva manifested himself as an infant and lay
crying in the midst of the corpse-strewn field. Kali, deceived by
Shiva's power of illusion, became calm as she suckled the baby. When
evening approached, Shiva performed the dance of creation (tandava) to
please the goddess. Delighted with the dance, Kali and her attendants
joined in.

This terrific and poignant imagery starkly reveals the nature of Kali
as the Divine Mother. Ramaprasad expresses his feelings thus:

Behold my Mother playing with Shiva,
lost in an ecstasy of joy!
Drunk with a draught of celestial wine,
She reels, and yet does not fall.
Erect She stands on Shiva's bosom,
and the earth Trembles under Her tread;
She and Her Lord are mad with frenzy,
casting Aside all fear and shame.

... Ramprasad (1718-75)

Kali's human and maternal qualities continue to define the goddess for
most of her devotees to this day. In human relationships, the love
between mother and child is usually considered the purest and
strongest. In the same way, the love between the Mother Goddess and
her human children is considered the closest and tenderest
relationship with divinity. Accordingly, Kali's devotees form a
particularly intimate and loving bond with her. But the devotee never
forgets Kali's demonic, frightening aspects. He does not distort
Kali's nature and the truths she reveals; he does not refuse to
meditate on her terrifying features. He mentions these repeatedly in
his songs but is never put off or repelled by them. Kali may be
frightening, the mad, forgetful mistress of a world spinning out of
control, but she is, after all, the Mother of all. As such, she must
be accepted by her children- accepted in wonder and awe, perhaps, but
accepted nevertheless. The poet in an intimate and lighter tone
addresses the Mother thus:

O Kali! Why dost Thou roam about nude?
Art Thou not ashamed, Mother!
Garb and ornaments Thou hast none;
yet Thou Pridest in being King's daughter.
O Mother! Is it a virtue of Thy family that Thou
Placest thy feet on Thy husband?
Thou art nude; Thy husband is nude; you both roam cremation grounds.
O Mother! We are all ashamed of you; do put on thy garb.
Thou hast cast away Thy necklace of jewels, Mother,
And worn a garland of human heads.
Prasada says, "Mother! Thy fierce beauty has frightened
Thy nude consort.

... Ramaprasad

The soul that worships becomes always a little child: the soul that
becomes a child finds God oftenest as mother. In a meditation before
the Blessed Sacrament, some pen has written the exquisite assurance:
"My child, you need not know much in order to please Me. Only Love Me
dearly. Speak to me, as you would talk to your mother, if she had
taken you in her arms."

Kali's boon is won when man confronts or accepts her and the realities
she dramatically conveys to him. The image of Kali, in a variety of
ways, teaches man that pain, sorrow, decay, death, and destruction are
not to be overcome or conquered by denying them or explaining them
away. Pain and sorrow are woven into the texture of man's life so
thoroughly that to deny them is ultimately futile. For man to realize
the fullness of his being, for man to exploit his potential as a human
being, he must finally accept this dimension of existence. Kali's boon
is freedom, the freedom of the child to revel in the moment, and it is
won only after confrontation or acceptance of death. To ignore death,
to pretend that one is physically immortal, to pretend that one's ego
is the center of things, is to provoke Kali's mocking laughter. To
confront or accept death, on the contrary, is to realize a mode of
being that can delight and revel in the play of the gods. To accept
one's mortality is to be able to let go, to be able to sing, dance,
and shout. Kali is Mother to her devotees not because she protects
them from the way things really are but because she reveals to them
their mortality and thus releases them to act fully and freely,
releases them from the incredible, binding web of "adult" pretense,
practicality, and rationality.

We hope you have enjoyed reading the article. Any comments or feedback
that you may have will be greatly appreciated. Please send your
feedback to

...and I am Sid Harth


== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 24 2010 5:31 am
From: WINRAJAtnj


== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 24 2010 12:42 pm
From: "regn.pickfod"

Ray Fischer wrote:
> regn.pickfod <> wrote:
>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>> regn.pickfod <> wrote:
>>>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>>>> regn.pickfod <> wrote:
>>>>>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>>>>>> regn.pickfod <> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>>>>>>>> regn.pickfod <> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> regn.pickfod <> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> regn.pickfod <> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regn.pickfod <> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regn.pickfod <> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regn.pickfod <> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your hatred is not a good reason.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nonsense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Truth. Your hatred is not a good enough reason.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robust social f
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your hatred of homoseuals is obvious.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To you, in your head.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You want to imprison and persecute gays. That is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hatred.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I want the laws changed and I want Homosexuals to comply
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with those laws and _not_ go to gaol.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You want to imprison and persecute gays. Hiding behind
>>>>>>>>>>>>> laws that you want is chickenshit cowardice.
>>>>>>>>>>>> The laws were there many years before I was born.
>>>>>>>>>>> They do not exist now, bigot.
>>>>>>>>>> They have existed and they will exist again,
>>>>>>>>> People reject your kind of hate.
>>>>>>>> It isn't hate,
>>>>>>> You lie in order to justify making people suffer.
>>>>>>> That is hate.
>>>>>> I tell the truth to help a known minority suffering a
>>>>> You're a liar and a bigot.
>>>> Homosexuals are known to have a higher than average
>>>> symptoms of mental disease.
>>> Is there no sleazy propaganda that you won't wallow in?
>> If you know anything about Homosexuals then you know it is
> If I know anything about bigots it is that you care nothing for the
> truth. You care only about rationaliziing your insane hatred.

Homosexuals are Bigots too.

>>>> They have a higher incidence
>>>> of self destructive tendencies which means they have a mental
>>>> disorder
>>> You have a mental disorder therefore you should be in prison.
>> Bigotry is perfectly natural and perfectly healthy.
> Crazy people can never admit that they're crazy.

With your arguement utterly lost you sink to ongoing personal attack,
not caring that it is ignorant perceptions like your's that continue to
allow pain and suffering for these Homosexuals whose lifestyle you
supposedly defend.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 24 2010 10:04 pm
From: (Ray Fischer)

regn.pickfod <> wrote:
>Ray Fischer wrote:
>> regn.pickfod <> wrote:
>>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>>> regn.pickfod <> wrote:
>>>>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>>>>> regn.pickfod <> wrote:
>>>>>>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>>>>>>> regn.pickfod <> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> regn.pickfod <> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> regn.pickfod <> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regn.pickfod <> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regn.pickfod <> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regn.pickfod <> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regn.pickfod <> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your hatred is not a good reason.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nonsense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Truth. Your hatred is not a good enough reason.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robust social f
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your hatred of homoseuals is obvious.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To you, in your head.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You want to imprison and persecute gays. That is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hatred.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I want the laws changed and I want Homosexuals to comply
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with those laws and _not_ go to gaol.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You want to imprison and persecute gays. Hiding behind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> laws that you want is chickenshit cowardice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The laws were there many years before I was born.
>>>>>>>>>>>> They do not exist now, bigot.
>>>>>>>>>>> They have existed and they will exist again,
>>>>>>>>>> People reject your kind of hate.
>>>>>>>>> It isn't hate,
>>>>>>>> You lie in order to justify making people suffer.
>>>>>>>> That is hate.
>>>>>>> I tell the truth to help a known minority suffering a
>>>>>> You're a liar and a bigot.
>>>>> Homosexuals are known to have a higher than average
>>>>> symptoms of mental disease.
>>>> Is there no sleazy propaganda that you won't wallow in?
>>> If you know anything about Homosexuals then you know it is
>> If I know anything about bigots it is that you care nothing for the
>> truth. You care only about rationaliziing your insane hatred.
>Homosexuals are Bigots too.

Grow up, asshole.

Ray Fischer

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