Wednesday, March 3, 2010

rec.arts.movies.local.indian - 18 new messages in 7 topics - digest

rec.arts.movies.local.indian
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian?hl=en

rec.arts.movies.local.indian@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* hot - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/28a4ef0d16c28a9d?hl=en
* UK RELIGIOUS SCHOOLS FORCED TO PROMOTE ABORTION, HOMOSEXUALITY UNDER SEX-ED
BILL - 8 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/dcfc2e198d269895?hl=en
* why aus is so violent - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/436365a0f203d495?hl=en
* PAKI TALIBAN CONFIRM DEATH OF QARI ZAFAR [TIME TO ORDER UP MORE VIRGINS] - 3
messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/b055e906d4067bd1?hl=en
* Muslim Terrorism - 42 TERROR CAMPS STILL ACTIVE IN PAKISTAN - ANTONY - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/02aac0118baee199?hl=en
* MY NAME IS KHAN - MOVIE REVIEW - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/d215c97aa3af3a9a?hl=en
* "Even a moderate Muslim who reads the Koran must read that the Jews are the
sons of apes and that the infidels must be killed" - 3 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/f9457aa8e9193f02?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: hot
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/28a4ef0d16c28a9d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 1 2010 9:15 pm
From: balu


hot lip kiss
http://photoseefree.blogspot.com/2009/12/hot-lip-kiss.html
hot navel kiss
http://photoseefree.blogspot.com/2009/12/hot-navel-kiss.html
hot lip to lip kiss
http://photoseefree.blogspot.com/2009/12/hot-lip-to-lip-kiss.html
super lip kiss
http://photoseefree.blogspot.com/2009/12/super-lip-kiss.html
lip kiss club
http://photoseefree.blogspot.com/2009/12/lip-kiss-club.html
kiss club
http://photoseefree.blogspot.com/2009/12/kiss-club.html


jobs

work from home
http://anyjobseehere.blogspot.com/2009/12/work-from-home.html
online jobs
http://anyjobseehere.blogspot.com/2009/12/online-jobs.html
java jobs
http://anyjobseehere.blogspot.com/2009/12/java-jobs.html
oracle jobs
http://anyjobseehere.blogspot.com/2009/12/oracle-jobs.html
web designing jobs
http://anyjobseehere.blogspot.com/2009/12/web-designing-jobs.html


==============================================================================
TOPIC: UK RELIGIOUS SCHOOLS FORCED TO PROMOTE ABORTION, HOMOSEXUALITY UNDER
SEX-ED BILL
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/dcfc2e198d269895?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 2 2010 12:36 am
From: "Seon Ferguson"


"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:4b8c82f0$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> regn.pickfod <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote:
>>Ray Fischer wrote:
>>> regn.pickfod <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote:
>>>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>>>> regn.pickfod <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote:
>>>>>> Seon Ferguson wrote:
>>>>>>> "regn.pickfod" <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:4b857369$1@news.comindico.com.au...
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A Gay basher is a red blooded Heterosexual with faggot blood on
>>>>>>>> their boots.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> An anti Homosexual is someone who opposes the normalisation of
>>>>>>>> a perversion because it is disgusting and impacts adversely on
>>>>>>>> society's morality.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Both are just as bad. We shouldn't hate someone just because they
>>>>>>> choose to live a lifestyle we may find disgusting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We shouldn't tolerate Homosexual lifestyles.
>>>>>
>>>>> We shouldn't tolerate murderous bigots like you.
>>>>
>>>> How many AIDS victims have the mental illness prone Homosexuals
>>>
>>> And like the Nazis who tried to exerminate homosexuals you spew the
>>> same kind of evil lies and filth.
>>
>>Making Homosexual acts illegal and fining them or sending them to gaol
>>for infringing said laws is hardly extermination.
>
> It's what the nazis did.
>
>>Ease up on the Poofterphile hysteria.
>
> Ease up on the murdeorus bigotry.
>
>>Homosexuality _was_ classified as a mental condition
>
> By people like the nazis.
>
And he agrees with the Nazi's hmmm...

> --
> Ray Fischer
> rfischer@sonic.net
>


== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 2 2010 9:51 am
From: "regn.pickfod"


Ray Fischer wrote:
> regn.pickfod <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote:
>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>> regn.pickfod <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote:
>>>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>>>> regn.pickfod <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote:
>>>>>> Seon Ferguson wrote:
>>>>>>> "regn.pickfod" <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:4b857369$1@news.comindico.com.au...
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A Gay basher is a red blooded Heterosexual with faggot blood on
>>>>>>>> their boots.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> An anti Homosexual is someone who opposes the normalisation of
>>>>>>>> a perversion because it is disgusting and impacts adversely on
>>>>>>>> society's morality.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Both are just as bad. We shouldn't hate someone just because
>>>>>>> they choose to live a lifestyle we may find disgusting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We shouldn't tolerate Homosexual lifestyles.
>>>>>
>>>>> We shouldn't tolerate murderous bigots like you.
>>>>
>>>> How many AIDS victims have the mental illness prone Homosexuals
>>>
>>> And like the Nazis who tried to exerminate homosexuals you spew the
>>> same kind of evil lies and filth.
>>
>> Making Homosexual acts illegal and fining them or sending them to
>> gaol for infringing said laws is hardly extermination.
>
> It's what the nazis did.
>

So did the Allies. Were the Allies, Nazis as well?

>> Ease up on the Poofterphile hysteria.
>
> Ease up on the murdeorus bigotry.
>
The only murderous bigotry is in your head.


>> Homosexuality _was_ classified as a mental condition
>
> By people like the nazis.

_and_ the Allies


== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 2 2010 9:54 am
From: "regn.pickfod"


Ray Fischer wrote:
> regn.pickfod <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote:
>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>> regn.pickfod <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote:
>>>> Seon Ferguson wrote:
>>>>> "regn.pickfod" <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote in message
>>>>> news:4b8a34ae$1@news.comindico.com.au...
>>>>>> Seon Ferguson wrote:
>>>>>>> "regn.pickfod" <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:4b8a05f5@news.comindico.com.au...
>>>>>>>> Seon Ferguson wrote:
>>>>>>>>> "regn.pickfod" <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:4b857369$1@news.comindico.com.au...
>>>>>>>>>> Seon Ferguson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> "Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:4b84d523$0$1649$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>>>>>>>>>>>> regn.pickfod <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dr. Jai Maharaj <usenet@mantra.com and/or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.mantra.com/jai> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <sYWdnTFAUN9LARnWnZ2dnUVZ_jGdnZ2d@westnet.com.au>, "Seon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ferguson" <seongf@gmail.com> posted:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Need any more evidence you are a hater? They are not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being promoted, they are being taught nto to hate gay
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people. But that doesn't matter to gay bashers like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, I am not a hater;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, you most certainly are.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Homosexual agenda in action.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And there's that hate.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Make unsubstantiated attacks against the anti Homosexual
>>>>>>>>>>>>> individual.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Such as fabricating some "homosexual agenda"?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Doesn't he realise a "anti Homosexual individual" is a gay
>>>>>>>>>>> basher?
>>>>>>>>>> know nuthin Seon ...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A Gay basher is a red blooded Heterosexual with faggot blood
>>>>>>>>>> on their boots.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> An anti Homosexual is someone who opposes the normalisation
>>>>>>>>>> of a perversion because it is disgusting and impacts
>>>>>>>>>> adversely on society's morality.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Both are just as bad. We shouldn't hate someone just because
>>>>>>>>> they choose to live a lifestyle we may find disgusting.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We shouldn't tolerate Homosexual lifestyles. They should be
>>>>>>>> regulated to protect the community and themselves.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well you and the Taliban and the army of God will have something
>>>>>>> in common. Thank god I'm not religious.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is "Thank god I'm not religious" supposed to be a joke? Or is
>>>>>> that how you really think?
>>>>>> No wonder you support the Homosexual lifestyle.
>>>>>>
>>>>> It is humorous like thank God I'm an atheist. I don't support any
>>>>> lifestyle. I support people's rights to live life however they
>>>>> choose. It's a good thing people like you will never get your way.
>>>>
>>>> The point with jokes is they are funny the first time then they get
>>>> boring.
>>>
>>> Except that you were never funny.
>>
>> That is your opinion
>
> Widely shared.
>
>> and I defend your rightto express that opinion.
>
> Nah.
>
>> Even Faggotphiles got rights.
>
> That's how you're still allowed to post here.

Whore whore whore whore


== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 2 2010 10:44 am
From: "regn.pickfod"


Seon Ferguson wrote:
> "regn.pickfod" <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote in message
> news:4b8ac980@news.comindico.com.au...
>> Seon Ferguson wrote:
>>> "regn.pickfod" <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote in message
>>> news:4b8a34ae$1@news.comindico.com.au...
>>>> Seon Ferguson wrote:
>>>>> "regn.pickfod" <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote in message
>>>>> news:4b8a05f5@news.comindico.com.au...
>>>>>> Seon Ferguson wrote:
>>>>>>> "regn.pickfod" <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:4b857369$1@news.comindico.com.au...
>>>>>>>> Seon Ferguson wrote:
>>>>>>>>> "Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:4b84d523$0$1649$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>>>>>>>>>> regn.pickfod <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dr. Jai Maharaj <usenet@mantra.com and/or
>>>>>>>>>>>> www.mantra.com/jai> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <sYWdnTFAUN9LARnWnZ2dnUVZ_jGdnZ2d@westnet.com.au>, "Seon
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ferguson" <seongf@gmail.com> posted:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Need any more evidence you are a hater? They are not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being promoted, they are being taught nto to hate gay
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people. But that doesn't matter to gay bashers like you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, I am not a hater;
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, you most certainly are.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Homosexual agenda in action.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And there's that hate.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Make unsubstantiated attacks against the anti Homosexual
>>>>>>>>>>> individual.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Such as fabricating some "homosexual agenda"?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Doesn't he realise a "anti Homosexual individual" is a gay
>>>>>>>>> basher?
>>>>>>>> know nuthin Seon ...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A Gay basher is a red blooded Heterosexual with faggot blood on
>>>>>>>> their boots.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> An anti Homosexual is someone who opposes the normalisation of
>>>>>>>> a perversion because it is disgusting and impacts adversely on
>>>>>>>> society's morality.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Both are just as bad. We shouldn't hate someone just because
>>>>>>> they choose to live a lifestyle we may find disgusting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We shouldn't tolerate Homosexual lifestyles. They should be
>>>>>> regulated to protect the community and themselves.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Well you and the Taliban and the army of God will have something
>>>>> in common. Thank god I'm not religious.
>>>>
>>>> Is "Thank god I'm not religious" supposed to be a joke? Or is that
>>>> how you really think?
>>>> No wonder you support the Homosexual lifestyle.
>>>>
>>> It is humorous like thank God I'm an atheist. I don't support any
>>> lifestyle. I support people's rights to live life however they
>>> choose. It's a good thing people like you will never get your way.
>>
>> The point with jokes is they are funny the first time then they get
>> boring.
>> It is a pity people like me don't get our way, for we are the
>> moderates so without moderation, the scale keeps swinging from one
>> extreme to the other.
>>
> Yep but paranoid loons like you are funny 24/7 lol

So you agree I'm a moderate and without moderates the
scale tips from one extreme to another.

How `grown up` of you Seon.

Bit harsh with the `paranoid loon` insult but
you're showing signs of improvement. I'll have
you wanting to ban the Mardi Gras, before you know it.

-you know it costs the taxpayers in NSW mmm
we aren't actually told how much we are paying for the priviledge of
boosting
the turnover in a few Sydney venues by a claimed 30 Million a year
and supposedly bringing in 500 000 sex tourists from all parts of the Globe
with all the latest diseases to share around


drug use is rife
http://www.starobserver.com.au/news/2010/03/03/honesty-needed-over-drug-use/22398

Bigotry is rife
http://www.smh.com.au/national/the-diary/secret-life-of-hamish-20100207-nkxz.html
[quote stt]
ANIMAL Liberation NSW is no longer queer enough for the
Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras parade
[quote fin]

I found something cute
http://www.rainbowlabor.org/pages/

apparantly rainbow is the next word to be hijacked by the Homosexual agenda
to describe Homosexuals.

== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 2 2010 10:58 am
From: rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer)


regn.pickfod <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote:
>Ray Fischer wrote:
>> regn.pickfod <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote:
>>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>>> regn.pickfod <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote:
>>>>> Seon Ferguson wrote:
>>>>>> "regn.pickfod" <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:4b8a34ae$1@news.comindico.com.au...
>>>>>>> Seon Ferguson wrote:
>>>>>>>> "regn.pickfod" <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:4b8a05f5@news.comindico.com.au...
>>>>>>>>> Seon Ferguson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> "regn.pickfod" <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:4b857369$1@news.comindico.com.au...
>>>>>>>>>>> Seon Ferguson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:4b84d523$0$1649$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> regn.pickfod <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dr. Jai Maharaj <usenet@mantra.com and/or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.mantra.com/jai> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <sYWdnTFAUN9LARnWnZ2dnUVZ_jGdnZ2d@westnet.com.au>, "Seon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ferguson" <seongf@gmail.com> posted:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Need any more evidence you are a hater? They are not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being promoted, they are being taught nto to hate gay
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people. But that doesn't matter to gay bashers like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, I am not a hater;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, you most certainly are.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Homosexual agenda in action.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And there's that hate.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Make unsubstantiated attacks against the anti Homosexual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> individual.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Such as fabricating some "homosexual agenda"?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Doesn't he realise a "anti Homosexual individual" is a gay
>>>>>>>>>>>> basher?
>>>>>>>>>>> know nuthin Seon ...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> A Gay basher is a red blooded Heterosexual with faggot blood
>>>>>>>>>>> on their boots.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> An anti Homosexual is someone who opposes the normalisation
>>>>>>>>>>> of a perversion because it is disgusting and impacts
>>>>>>>>>>> adversely on society's morality.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Both are just as bad. We shouldn't hate someone just because
>>>>>>>>>> they choose to live a lifestyle we may find disgusting.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We shouldn't tolerate Homosexual lifestyles. They should be
>>>>>>>>> regulated to protect the community and themselves.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well you and the Taliban and the army of God will have something
>>>>>>>> in common. Thank god I'm not religious.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is "Thank god I'm not religious" supposed to be a joke? Or is
>>>>>>> that how you really think?
>>>>>>> No wonder you support the Homosexual lifestyle.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is humorous like thank God I'm an atheist. I don't support any
>>>>>> lifestyle. I support people's rights to live life however they
>>>>>> choose. It's a good thing people like you will never get your way.
>>>>>
>>>>> The point with jokes is they are funny the first time then they get
>>>>> boring.
>>>>
>>>> Except that you were never funny.
>>>
>>> That is your opinion
>>
>> Widely shared.
>>
>>> and I defend your rightto express that opinion.
>>
>> Nah.
>>
>>> Even Faggotphiles got rights.
>>
>> That's how you're still allowed to post here.
>
>Whore whore whore whore

We not interested in your sexual fantasies.

--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net

== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 2 2010 10:59 am
From: rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer)


regn.pickfod <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote:
>Ray Fischer wrote:
>> regn.pickfod <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote:
>>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>>> regn.pickfod <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote:
>>>>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>>>>> regn.pickfod <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote:
>>>>>>> Seon Ferguson wrote:
>>>>>>>> "regn.pickfod" <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:4b857369$1@news.comindico.com.au...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A Gay basher is a red blooded Heterosexual with faggot blood on
>>>>>>>>> their boots.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> An anti Homosexual is someone who opposes the normalisation of
>>>>>>>>> a perversion because it is disgusting and impacts adversely on
>>>>>>>>> society's morality.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Both are just as bad. We shouldn't hate someone just because
>>>>>>>> they choose to live a lifestyle we may find disgusting.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We shouldn't tolerate Homosexual lifestyles.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We shouldn't tolerate murderous bigots like you.
>>>>>
>>>>> How many AIDS victims have the mental illness prone Homosexuals
>>>>
>>>> And like the Nazis who tried to exerminate homosexuals you spew the
>>>> same kind of evil lies and filth.
>>>
>>> Making Homosexual acts illegal and fining them or sending them to
>>> gaol for infringing said laws is hardly extermination.
>>
>> It's what the nazis did.
>
>So did the Allies.

Not any more.

>>> Ease up on the Poofterphile hysteria.
>>
>> Ease up on the murdeorus bigotry.
>>
>The only murderous bigotry is in your head.

You're the one who hates homosexuals so much that you want to
persecute and imprison them, bigot.

>>> Homosexuality _was_ classified as a mental condition
>>
>> By people like the nazis.
>
>_and_ the Allies

You nazis STILL hate homosexuals. Sane people have gotten over it.


--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net

== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 2 2010 1:31 pm
From: "Seon Ferguson"


"regn.pickfod" <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote in message
news:4b8d5c97@news.comindico.com.au...
> Seon Ferguson wrote:
>> "regn.pickfod" <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote in message
>> news:4b8ac980@news.comindico.com.au...
>>> Seon Ferguson wrote:
>>>> "regn.pickfod" <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote in message
>>>> news:4b8a34ae$1@news.comindico.com.au...
>>>>> Seon Ferguson wrote:
>>>>>> "regn.pickfod" <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:4b8a05f5@news.comindico.com.au...
>>>>>>> Seon Ferguson wrote:
>>>>>>>> "regn.pickfod" <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:4b857369$1@news.comindico.com.au...
>>>>>>>>> Seon Ferguson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> "Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:4b84d523$0$1649$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>>>>>>>>>>> regn.pickfod <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dr. Jai Maharaj <usenet@mantra.com and/or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.mantra.com/jai> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <sYWdnTFAUN9LARnWnZ2dnUVZ_jGdnZ2d@westnet.com.au>, "Seon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ferguson" <seongf@gmail.com> posted:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Need any more evidence you are a hater? They are not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being promoted, they are being taught nto to hate gay
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people. But that doesn't matter to gay bashers like you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, I am not a hater;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, you most certainly are.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Homosexual agenda in action.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And there's that hate.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Make unsubstantiated attacks against the anti Homosexual
>>>>>>>>>>>> individual.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Such as fabricating some "homosexual agenda"?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Doesn't he realise a "anti Homosexual individual" is a gay
>>>>>>>>>> basher?
>>>>>>>>> know nuthin Seon ...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A Gay basher is a red blooded Heterosexual with faggot blood on
>>>>>>>>> their boots.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> An anti Homosexual is someone who opposes the normalisation of
>>>>>>>>> a perversion because it is disgusting and impacts adversely on
>>>>>>>>> society's morality.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Both are just as bad. We shouldn't hate someone just because
>>>>>>>> they choose to live a lifestyle we may find disgusting.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We shouldn't tolerate Homosexual lifestyles. They should be
>>>>>>> regulated to protect the community and themselves.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well you and the Taliban and the army of God will have something
>>>>>> in common. Thank god I'm not religious.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is "Thank god I'm not religious" supposed to be a joke? Or is that
>>>>> how you really think?
>>>>> No wonder you support the Homosexual lifestyle.
>>>>>
>>>> It is humorous like thank God I'm an atheist. I don't support any
>>>> lifestyle. I support people's rights to live life however they
>>>> choose. It's a good thing people like you will never get your way.
>>>
>>> The point with jokes is they are funny the first time then they get
>>> boring.
>>> It is a pity people like me don't get our way, for we are the
>>> moderates so without moderation, the scale keeps swinging from one
>>> extreme to the other.
>>>
>> Yep but paranoid loons like you are funny 24/7 lol
>
> So you agree I'm a moderate and without moderates the
> scale tips from one extreme to another.
>
How is someone who wants to make homosexuality illegal a moderate? Sure you
don't go around yelling kill gay people so I guess compared to those kooks
you are moderate.

> How `grown up` of you Seon.
>
> Bit harsh with the `paranoid loon` insult but
> you're showing signs of improvement. I'll have
> you wanting to ban the Mardi Gras, before you know it.
>
Not as long as it pours money into Sydney.

> -you know it costs the taxpayers in NSW mmm
> we aren't actually told how much we are paying for the priviledge of
> boosting
> the turnover in a few Sydney venues by a claimed 30 Million a year
> and supposedly bringing in 500 000 sex tourists from all parts of the
> Globe
> with all the latest diseases to share around
>
>
So? it brings money to Sydney. Big deal.

> drug use is rife
> http://www.starobserver.com.au/news/2010/03/03/honesty-needed-over-drug-use/22398
>
> Bigotry is rife
> http://www.smh.com.au/national/the-diary/secret-life-of-hamish-20100207-nkxz.html
> [quote stt]
> ANIMAL Liberation NSW is no longer queer enough for the
> Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras parade
> [quote fin]
>
> I found something cute
> http://www.rainbowlabor.org/pages/
>
> apparantly rainbow is the next word to be hijacked by the Homosexual
> agenda
> to describe Homosexuals.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 2 2010 1:32 pm
From: "Seon Ferguson"


"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:4b8d600b$0$1673$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> regn.pickfod <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote:
>>Ray Fischer wrote:
>>> regn.pickfod <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote:
>>>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>>>> regn.pickfod <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote:
>>>>>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>>>>>> regn.pickfod <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Seon Ferguson wrote:
>>>>>>>>> "regn.pickfod" <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:4b857369$1@news.comindico.com.au...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A Gay basher is a red blooded Heterosexual with faggot blood on
>>>>>>>>>> their boots.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> An anti Homosexual is someone who opposes the normalisation of
>>>>>>>>>> a perversion because it is disgusting and impacts adversely on
>>>>>>>>>> society's morality.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Both are just as bad. We shouldn't hate someone just because
>>>>>>>>> they choose to live a lifestyle we may find disgusting.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We shouldn't tolerate Homosexual lifestyles.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We shouldn't tolerate murderous bigots like you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How many AIDS victims have the mental illness prone Homosexuals
>>>>>
>>>>> And like the Nazis who tried to exerminate homosexuals you spew the
>>>>> same kind of evil lies and filth.
>>>>
>>>> Making Homosexual acts illegal and fining them or sending them to
>>>> gaol for infringing said laws is hardly extermination.
>>>
>>> It's what the nazis did.
>>
>>So did the Allies.
>
> Not any more.
>
>>>> Ease up on the Poofterphile hysteria.
>>>
>>> Ease up on the murdeorus bigotry.
>>>
>>The only murderous bigotry is in your head.
>
> You're the one who hates homosexuals so much that you want to
> persecute and imprison them, bigot.
>
>>>> Homosexuality _was_ classified as a mental condition
>>>
>>> By people like the nazis.
>>
>>_and_ the Allies
>
> You nazis STILL hate homosexuals. Sane people have gotten over it.
>
The only people who care if someone is gay are religious morons and neo
nazi's. Or people who's sexuality is threatened. The rest don't care if
someone is gay.

>
> --
> Ray Fischer
> rfischer@sonic.net
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: why aus is so violent
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/436365a0f203d495?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 2 2010 10:06 am
From: "harmony"

"FarmI" <ask@itshall be given> wrote in message
news:4b892007$0$12922$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
> "Arindam Banerjee" <adda1234@bigpond.com> wrote in message
> On Feb 25, 10:42 pm, "FarmI" <ask@itshall be given> wrote:
>> "Arindam Banerjee" <adda1...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:nzhhn.9622$pv.1654@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>
>> > "FarmI" <ask@itshall be given> wrote in message
>> >news:4b852577$0$25779$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
>> >> "Arindam Banerjee" <adda1...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
>>
>> >>> Which part of the Australian constitution says that Australia is a
>> >>> secular country?
>>
>> >> Chapter 5, Section 116.
>>
>> > What are the words?
>>
>> google will help you find it.
>>
>> > Is there a preamble in the Australian constitution stating that
>> > Australia
>> > is a secular country?
>>
>> No.
>>
>> > The Indian constitution has one, where India is constitutionally a
>> > socialist, secular and democratic state.
>>
>> What India has in its Constitution or in any Preamble has no bearing
>> whatsoever on what Australia has in its Consitution.
>
> Okay, found it in about 60 seconds. Basically they say that a
> person's religion will not impact upon any Govt. appointment, all
> religious rights will be protected, and so on. Good.
> Sounds secular enough to me from the Indian perspective - there
> secularism does not mean atheism. Quite the reverse, a secular state
> can and should be deeply spiritual as it is genuinely tolerant.
> Of course, what is religion and what passes for religion, are two
> different things.
>

this obviously means the whoe australia is behaving unconstitutionally.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: PAKI TALIBAN CONFIRM DEATH OF QARI ZAFAR [TIME TO ORDER UP MORE VIRGINS]

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/b055e906d4067bd1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 2 2010 12:46 pm
From: usenet@mantra.com and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)


Pakistani Taliban confirm death of Qari Zafar

Dawn
Tuesday, March 2, 2010

Islam-Is-Bad - The Pakistani Taliban confirmed Tuesday that a senior
commander wanted in the deadly 2006 bombing of the US consulate in
Karachi was killed in a suspected American missile strike in
northwestern Pakistan.

Mohammed Qari Zafar's death, which was reported earlier by Pakistani
intelligence officials, marks the latest success from Washington's
covert CIA-run drone program in Pakistan. The unmanned aircraft have
carried out more than 100 missile strikes near the Afghan border
since 2004, killing several senior Taliban and al-Qaida leaders.

The Taliban described Zafar as a martyr in a statement faxed to local
journalists and pledged to avenge his death. It is uncommon for the
Taliban to confirm the death of one of its members in a missile
strike.

''The mujahideen will soon take revenge against the Pakistani
government for his killing anywhere in the country,'' said the
statement.

Pakistani officials routinely protest the drone strikes as violations
of the country's sovereignty. But US officials, who refuse to speak
publicly about the secret program, say privately that the Pakistani
government supports the effort.

Pakistani intelligence officials said last week that Zafar was killed
Wednesday along with 13 other insurgents when three missiles struck a
compound and a vehicle in the Dargah Mandi area of the North
Waziristan tribal region. They spoke on condition of anonymity
because they were not authorised to talk to the media.

Zafar, who was a senior member of the banned al-Qaida-linked militant
group Lashkar-i-Jhangvi, orchestrated the March 2006 suicide car
bombing of the US consulate in Karachi, killing US diplomat David Foy
and three Pakistanis. He was also believed to be behind the September
2008 truck bomb blast at the Marriott Hotel in Islamabad that killed
54 people. The US had posted a $5 million dollar reward for
information leading to his capture.

More at:
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/04-taliban-confirm-qari-zafar-death-qs-09

Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti

o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the educational
purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post may not
have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of the
poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption for
fair use of copyrighted works.
o If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read,
considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal name, current
e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number.
o Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by others are
not necessarily those of the poster who may or may not have read the article.

FAIR USE NOTICE: This article may contain copyrighted material the use of
which may or may not have been specifically authorized by the copyright
owner. This material is being made available in efforts to advance the
understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic,
democratic, scientific, social, and cultural, etc., issues. It is believed
that this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as
provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title
17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without
profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included
information for research, comment, discussion and educational purposes by
subscribing to USENET newsgroups or visiting web sites. For more information
go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
If you wish to use copyrighted material from this article for purposes of
your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the
copyright owner.

Since newsgroup posts are being removed
by forgery by one or more net terrorists,
this post may be reposted several times.


== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 2 2010 1:46 pm
From: "Sid9"

"usenet@mantra.com and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)" wrote in
message news:20100302Q7gqDQ9pEM0S3g09zuoJX2C@H5GJJ...
> Pakistani Taliban confirm death of Qari Zafar
>
> Dawn
> Tuesday, March 2, 2010
>
> Islam-Is-Bad - The Pakistani Taliban confirmed Tuesday that a senior
> commander wanted in the deadly 2006 bombing of the US consulate in
> Karachi was killed in a suspected American missile strike in
> northwestern Pakistan.
>
> Mohammed Qari Zafar's death, which was reported earlier by Pakistani
> intelligence officials, marks the latest success from Washington's
> covert CIA-run drone program in Pakistan. The unmanned aircraft have
> carried out more than 100 missile strikes near the Afghan border
> since 2004, killing several senior Taliban and al-Qaida leaders.
>
> The Taliban described Zafar as a martyr in a statement faxed to local
> journalists and pledged to avenge his death. It is uncommon for the
> Taliban to confirm the death of one of its members in a missile
> strike.
>
> ''The mujahideen will soon take revenge against the Pakistani
> government for his killing anywhere in the country,'' said the
> statement.
>
> Pakistani officials routinely protest the drone strikes as violations
> of the country's sovereignty. But US officials, who refuse to speak
> publicly about the secret program, say privately that the Pakistani
> government supports the effort.
>
> Pakistani intelligence officials said last week that Zafar was killed
> Wednesday along with 13 other insurgents when three missiles struck a
> compound and a vehicle in the Dargah Mandi area of the North
> Waziristan tribal region. They spoke on condition of anonymity
> because they were not authorised to talk to the media.
>
> Zafar, who was a senior member of the banned al-Qaida-linked militant
> group Lashkar-i-Jhangvi, orchestrated the March 2006 suicide car
> bombing of the US consulate in Karachi, killing US diplomat David Foy
> and three Pakistanis. He was also believed to be behind the September
> 2008 truck bomb blast at the Marriott Hotel in Islamabad that killed
> 54 people. The US had posted a $5 million dollar reward for
> information leading to his capture.
>
> More at:
> http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/04-taliban-confirm-qari-zafar-death-qs-09
>
> Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
> Om Shanti
>
> o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the
> educational
> purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post may
> not
> have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of the
> poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption for
> fair use of copyrighted works.
> o If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read,
> considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal name,
> current
> e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number.
> o Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by others
> are
> not necessarily those of the poster who may or may not have read the
> article.
>
> FAIR USE NOTICE: This article may contain copyrighted material the use of
> which may or may not have been specifically authorized by the copyright
> owner. This material is being made available in efforts to advance the
> understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic,
> democratic, scientific, social, and cultural, etc., issues. It is believed
> that this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as
> provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with
> Title
> 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without
> profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the
> included
> information for research, comment, discussion and educational purposes by
> subscribing to USENET newsgroups or visiting web sites. For more
> information
> go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
> If you wish to use copyrighted material from this article for purposes of
> your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the
> copyright owner.
>
> Since newsgroup posts are being removed
> by forgery by one or more net terrorists,
> this post may be reposted several times.
.
.
====================
Saudi Wahabiism on the way out?
Suicide bombing and terrorism denounced.
Fatwa refutes terrorism
====================

UK Muslim leader to put fatwa on Jihad

By JONNY PAUL,

02/03/2010 04:40

Ruling is most comprehensive theological refutation of Islamist terrorism.

LONDON � A revered mainstream Muslim scholar is set to announce in London on
Tuesday a fatwa (Muslim ruling) against terrorism and suicide bombing in the
name of Islam.

Sheikh Dr. Tahir ul-Qadri, a widely recognized and respected authority on
Islamic jurisprudence, will issue a comprehensive fatwa prohibiting
terrorism and suicide bombing at a press conference in Westminster, central
London.

The Pakistani-born Dr. Qadri has authored an unprecedented, 600-page fatwa
on why suicide bombings and terrorism are un-Islamic and scripturally
forbidden. The ruling is the most comprehensive theological refutation of
Islamist terrorism to date.

The fatwa will also be posted on the Internet and in English, making it
readily accessible. It will also set an important precedent and allow other
scholars to similarly condemn the ideas behind terrorism.

Dr. Qadri has used texts in the Koran and other Islamic writings to argue
that suicide and other terrorist attacks are �absolutely against the
teachings of Islam� and that �Islam does not permit such acts on any excuse,
reason or pretext.�

The fatwa condemns suicide bombers as destined for hell, refuting the claim
used by Islamists that such terrorists will earn paradise after death.

�Today�s tragedy is that terrorists, murderers, mischief-mongers and rioters
try to prove their criminal, rebellious, tyrannous, brutal and blasphemous
activities as a right and a justified reaction to foreign aggression under
the garb of defense of Islam and national interests,� he says about suicide
bombing.

�It can in no way be permissible to keep foreign delegates under unlawful
custody and murder them and other peaceful non-Muslim citizens in
retaliation for interference, unjust activities and aggressive advances of
their countries,� Qadri said, asserting, �The one who does has no relation
to Islam.�

Dr. Qadri is the founder of the international Minhaj-ul-Quran movement.
Supporters say his fatwa is significant because he is issuing it himself and
his movement, a major grass-roots global organization, has hundreds of
thousands of followers in South Asia and the UK.

The move has been welcomed by the Quilliam Foundation, a London-based
anti-extremism think-tank led by former Islamists.

�This fatwa has the potential to be a highly significant step towards
eradicating Islamist terrorism,� a Quilliam spokesperson said. �Fatwas by
Wahhabi-influenced clerics and Islamist ideologues initiated modern
terrorism against civilians. Terrorist groups such as al-Qaida continue to
justify their mass killings with self-serving readings of religious
scripture.

�Fatwas that demolish and expose such theological innovations will consign
Islamist terrorism to the dustbin of history.�

London�s Centre for Social Cohesion think-tank has also welcomed the
initiative.

CSC director Douglas Murray believes that in recent years, and since the
July 2005 terrorist attack in London, Muslim leaders have failed to
unequivocally condemn violence committed in the name of Islam.

�A sentence that may to many people seem clear, such as �There can be no
justification for the killing of innocent people� is filled with caveats �
what is an �innocent� person? Who decides who is or is not �innocent�?

�Too many Muslim religious figures sound as if they are condemning violence
when in fact they are merely condemning violence in certain situations,
against certain people,� he said.

Murray said the fatwa takes away the caveats and will have far-reaching
consequences. However he said it won�t stop Islamic terrorism
instantaneously.

�Dr. ul-Qadri is respected for his ability to cross some of the notable
sectarian boundaries that abound in the Islamic faith as in all others. Even
Muslims who might dislike him will not be able to dismiss him out of hand.

�Yet even if the contents of this fatwa are what people have long hoped for,
it will not, of course, stop Islamic terrorism straight away. A single fatwa
will not change the level of denial and lack of self-criticism inherent in
so much of modern Islam. Nor will it stop every fevered young radical eager
to kill and maim. But the trickle-down effect is important. The most violent
interpretations of Islam have indeed trickled down to terrorists via learned
scholars,� he said.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 2 2010 5:33 pm
From: "Bob Hawke"

"Sid9" <sid9@belsouth.net> wrote in message
news:hmk0vb$8t5$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> "usenet@mantra.com and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)" wrote in
> message news:20100302Q7gqDQ9pEM0S3g09zuoJX2C@H5GJJ...
>> Pakistani Taliban confirm death of Qari Zafar
>>
>> Dawn
>> Tuesday, March 2, 2010
>>
>> Islam-Is-Bad - The Pakistani Taliban confirmed Tuesday that a senior
>> commander wanted in the deadly 2006 bombing of the US consulate in
>> Karachi was killed in a suspected American missile strike in
>> northwestern Pakistan.
>>
>> Mohammed Qari Zafar's death, which was reported earlier by Pakistani
>> intelligence officials, marks the latest success from Washington's
>> covert CIA-run drone program in Pakistan. The unmanned aircraft have
>> carried out more than 100 missile strikes near the Afghan border
>> since 2004, killing several senior Taliban and al-Qaida leaders.
>>
>> The Taliban described Zafar as a martyr in a statement faxed to local
>> journalists and pledged to avenge his death. It is uncommon for the
>> Taliban to confirm the death of one of its members in a missile
>> strike.
>>
>> ''The mujahideen will soon take revenge against the Pakistani
>> government for his killing anywhere in the country,'' said the
>> statement.
>>
>> Pakistani officials routinely protest the drone strikes as violations
>> of the country's sovereignty. But US officials, who refuse to speak
>> publicly about the secret program, say privately that the Pakistani
>> government supports the effort.
>>
>> Pakistani intelligence officials said last week that Zafar was killed
>> Wednesday along with 13 other insurgents when three missiles struck a
>> compound and a vehicle in the Dargah Mandi area of the North
>> Waziristan tribal region. They spoke on condition of anonymity
>> because they were not authorised to talk to the media.
>>
>> Zafar, who was a senior member of the banned al-Qaida-linked militant
>> group Lashkar-i-Jhangvi, orchestrated the March 2006 suicide car
>> bombing of the US consulate in Karachi, killing US diplomat David Foy
>> and three Pakistanis. He was also believed to be behind the September
>> 2008 truck bomb blast at the Marriott Hotel in Islamabad that killed
>> 54 people. The US had posted a $5 million dollar reward for
>> information leading to his capture.
>>
>> More at:
>> http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/04-taliban-confirm-qari-zafar-death-qs-09
>>
>> Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
>> Om Shanti
>>
>> o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the
>> educational
>> purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post may
>> not
>> have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of
>> the
>> poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption for
>> fair use of copyrighted works.
>> o If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read,
>> considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal name,
>> current
>> e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number.
>> o Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by others
>> are
>> not necessarily those of the poster who may or may not have read the
>> article.
>>
>> FAIR USE NOTICE: This article may contain copyrighted material the use of
>> which may or may not have been specifically authorized by the copyright
>> owner. This material is being made available in efforts to advance the
>> understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic,
>> democratic, scientific, social, and cultural, etc., issues. It is
>> believed
>> that this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as
>> provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with
>> Title
>> 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without
>> profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the
>> included
>> information for research, comment, discussion and educational purposes by
>> subscribing to USENET newsgroups or visiting web sites. For more
>> information
>> go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
>> If you wish to use copyrighted material from this article for purposes of
>> your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the
>> copyright owner.
>>
>> Since newsgroup posts are being removed
>> by forgery by one or more net terrorists,
>> this post may be reposted several times.
> .
> .
> ====================
> Saudi Wahabiism on the way out?
> Suicide bombing and terrorism denounced.
> Fatwa refutes terrorism
> ====================
>
> UK Muslim leader to put fatwa on Jihad
>
> By JONNY PAUL,
>
> 02/03/2010 04:40
>
> Ruling is most comprehensive theological refutation of Islamist terrorism.
>
> LONDON � A revered mainstream Muslim scholar is set to announce in London
> on Tuesday a fatwa (Muslim ruling) against terrorism and suicide bombing
> in the name of Islam.
>
> Sheikh Dr. Tahir ul-Qadri, a widely recognized and respected authority on
> Islamic jurisprudence, will issue a comprehensive fatwa prohibiting
> terrorism and suicide bombing at a press conference in Westminster,
> central London.
>
> The Pakistani-born Dr. Qadri has authored an unprecedented, 600-page fatwa
> on why suicide bombings and terrorism are un-Islamic and scripturally
> forbidden. The ruling is the most comprehensive theological refutation of
> Islamist terrorism to date.
>
> The fatwa will also be posted on the Internet and in English, making it
> readily accessible. It will also set an important precedent and allow
> other scholars to similarly condemn the ideas behind terrorism.
>
> Dr. Qadri has used texts in the Koran and other Islamic writings to argue
> that suicide and other terrorist attacks are �absolutely against the
> teachings of Islam� and that �Islam does not permit such acts on any
> excuse, reason or pretext.�
>
> The fatwa condemns suicide bombers as destined for hell, refuting the
> claim used by Islamists that such terrorists will earn paradise after
> death.
>
> �Today�s tragedy is that terrorists, murderers, mischief-mongers and
> rioters try to prove their criminal, rebellious, tyrannous, brutal and
> blasphemous activities as a right and a justified reaction to foreign
> aggression under the garb of defense of Islam and national interests,� he
> says about suicide bombing.
>
> �It can in no way be permissible to keep foreign delegates under unlawful
> custody and murder them and other peaceful non-Muslim citizens in
> retaliation for interference, unjust activities and aggressive advances of
> their countries,� Qadri said, asserting, �The one who does has no relation
> to Islam.�
>
> Dr. Qadri is the founder of the international Minhaj-ul-Quran movement.
> Supporters say his fatwa is significant because he is issuing it himself
> and his movement, a major grass-roots global organization, has hundreds of
> thousands of followers in South Asia and the UK.
>
> The move has been welcomed by the Quilliam Foundation, a London-based
> anti-extremism think-tank led by former Islamists.
>
> �This fatwa has the potential to be a highly significant step towards
> eradicating Islamist terrorism,� a Quilliam spokesperson said. �Fatwas by
> Wahhabi-influenced clerics and Islamist ideologues initiated modern
> terrorism against civilians. Terrorist groups such as al-Qaida continue to
> justify their mass killings with self-serving readings of religious
> scripture.
>
> �Fatwas that demolish and expose such theological innovations will consign
> Islamist terrorism to the dustbin of history.�
>
> London�s Centre for Social Cohesion think-tank has also welcomed the
> initiative.
>
> CSC director Douglas Murray believes that in recent years, and since the
> July 2005 terrorist attack in London, Muslim leaders have failed to
> unequivocally condemn violence committed in the name of Islam.
>
> �A sentence that may to many people seem clear, such as �There can be no
> justification for the killing of innocent people� is filled with caveats �
> what is an �innocent� person? Who decides who is or is not �innocent�?
>
> �Too many Muslim religious figures sound as if they are condemning
> violence when in fact they are merely condemning violence in certain
> situations, against certain people,� he said.
>
> Murray said the fatwa takes away the caveats and will have far-reaching
> consequences. However he said it won�t stop Islamic terrorism
> instantaneously.
>
> �Dr. ul-Qadri is respected for his ability to cross some of the notable
> sectarian boundaries that abound in the Islamic faith as in all others.
> Even Muslims who might dislike him will not be able to dismiss him out of
> hand.
>
> �Yet even if the contents of this fatwa are what people have long hoped
> for, it will not, of course, stop Islamic terrorism straight away. A
> single fatwa will not change the level of denial and lack of
> self-criticism inherent in so much of modern Islam. Nor will it stop every
> fevered young radical eager to kill and maim. But the trickle-down effect
> is important. The most violent interpretations of Islam have indeed
> trickled down to terrorists via learned scholars,� he said.
>
>
>
>

I bet some radical Arselifter liquidates him.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Muslim Terrorism - 42 TERROR CAMPS STILL ACTIVE IN PAKISTAN - ANTONY
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/02aac0118baee199?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 2 2010 5:46 pm
From: Topaz

"This is the largest terrorist group operating within America.

On January 26, 1972, a JDL team firebombed the New York City offices
of a US-Soviet cultural exchange agency. Killed in the fire was a
27-year-old secretary (who happened to be Jewish). Thirteen others
were injured. One participant, Sheldon Siegel, confessed to police
that he had made the bomb, and provided the names of the others
involved in the crime. Several years later Kahane acknowledged JDL
responsibility for the crime. However, the case against the JDL
members who were charged in the incident was eventually dismissed on a
technicality. (note 36)

In May 1972, ten JDL thugs broke into the Austrian consulate in
Washington, DC, and beat Austria's ambassador to the US, Karl Gruber,
as well as the building's janitor. (note 37)

In May 1974, JDL members attacked Arab-American community activist Dr.
Mohammed Mehdi with a lead pipe, sending him to the hospital with a
broken back. It took nearly a year for the police to make an arrest,
even though a perpetrator had appeared on television to boast of the
deed. A short time later, Mehdi's offices in Manhattan were almost
totally destroyed in an apparent arson attack. (note 38)

On February 21, 1975, a US federal court found Kahane guilty of
violating terms of a probation stemming from his 1971 felony
conviction for manufacturing firebombs. He had been forbidden from
having anything to do with bombs, dynamite or other weapons, or
encouraging violence. Citing incriminating letters written by Kahane
in which he had urged followers to assassinate Russian and Arab
diplomats, the judge sentenced the rabbi to one year imprisonment.
Kahane served eight months of this term in a Manhattan halfway house,
which he was allowed to leave every day to eat in kosher restaurants.
Kahane used this period of "imprisonment" to conduct JDL business.
(note 39)

In 1975, 21-year-old JDL member David Kamaiko hijacked an executive
helicopter in New York City, demanding $2 million ransom to buy guns
for the JDL. Kamaiko shot the pilot before he was himself subdued.
(note 40)

In 1978, Canadian JDL leader Joseph Schachter bombed the home of
right-wing activist Donald Andrews. (note 41)

On April 11, 1982, JDL member Allan Goodman opened fire with a machine
gun at a Muslim house of worship in Jerusalem, killing two Palestinian
Arabs: an elderly man and a 20-year-old youth. After entering the
mosque, he continued firing, critically wounding several people.
Goodman, from Baltimore, Maryland, had received paramilitary training
at the JDL's Camp Jedel in New York state. In an interview, Kahane
said of the crime, "There was nothing wrong with what he did...the act
was perfectly correct." (note 42)

In 1987, three members of the Jewish Defense League were arrested for
their involvement in at least six bombing attacks carried out the New
York area between 1984 and 1987. The accused were Jay Cohen, Sharon
Katz and Victor Vancier, head of the JDL in the New York area. After
admitting his role in the terror bombings, Vancier was sentenced in
October 1987 to ten years imprisonment. Another JDL member, Murray
Young, was sentenced to five years in prison. (note 43)

FBI officials believe that the JDL was behind the bomb blast in
mid-August 1985 that killed Tscherim Soobzokov in Paterson, New
Jersey, and a similar (although non-fatal) bombing attack in early
September 1985 directed against Elmars Sprogis in Brentwood, New York.
Soobzokov and Sprogis were falsely alleged to have been "Nazi war
criminals." (note 44)

In January 1991, Kurt Haber-identified in newspaper reports as a
"Jewish Holocaust survivor"-was charged with making criminal threats
against the Arab-American Anti-Discrimination Committee. (note 45)

Alex Odeh Murder

Perhaps the most widely-publicized crime in which the JDL has been
implicated is the murder on October 11, 1985, of Alex Odeh, West Coast
regional director of the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee.
Odeh was killed in a bomb blast when he entered his group's office in
Santa Ana, southern California. (note 46)

An FBI official announced in 1985 that the Jewish Defense League was
believed responsible for the murder of Odeh and at least two other
terrorist incidents on the East Coast. "We are attributing the three
bombings to the JDL," said FBI official Lane Bonner. (note 47)

Similarly, an FBI report released in July 1986 cited "elements" of the
Jewish Defense League as responsible for the murder of Odeh. (note 48)

Three JDL members were identified by US federal investigators in 1988
as the perpetrators of the bombing that took Odeh's life. The accused
assassins, who were born in the USA but fled to Israel to avoid
punishment, are Keith Fuchs, Andy Green and Robert Manning. (note 49)

Law enforcement officials in Los Angeles and New York have named
Robert Manning-an important Jewish Defense League activist-as a
suspect in at least four political bombings in 1985, including the one
that killed Odeh. Manning, authorities said, had a two-decade history
of violent activities that also included threats against producers of
a television show. (note 50)

After joining the southern California chapter of the Jewish Defense
League as a charter member in 1971, Manning quickly earned a
reputation as a particularly tough street fighter. JDL chief Irv Rubin
praised him as a "pretty strong boy. I've seen him fight. We tangled
with Nazis in the streets, Arabs in the streets. He was a real active
guy." (note 51) In a 1988 court document, a federal prosecutor wrote:
"It became known that [Manning], while purporting to act on behalf of
the Jewish cause, on several occasions placed or threw explosive
devices at locations of Arab antagonists." (note 52)

The Israeli government sought to obstruct the FBI's investigation of
the Odeh slaying, the federal agency charged in November 1987. (note
53) Manning himself tried to evade extradition by claiming heart
trouble, by taking 20 sleeping pills, and by charging that he was
being wrongfully persecuted simply because he is a pious, orthodox
Jew. In spite of all this, Manning was finally extradited to the
United States in July 1993. (note 54)

Official Confirmation of JDL Terrorism

The US Justice Department's Federal Bureau of Investigation has
repeatedly characterized the JDL as a terrorist and criminal
organization. A report issued in 1985 by the FBI's Terrorist Research
and Analytical Center confirmed: (note 55)

In FBI terrorism analyses published since 1981, responsibility for 18
terrorist incidents has been attributed to groups seeking to publicize
past and present injustices suffered by the Jewish people. While
claims for some of these acts have been made in the names of the
"Jewish Defenders,' "United Jewish Underground," and "Jewish Direct
Action," 15 of the incidents were attributed to the Jewish Defense
League (JDL), by far the most well known of these groups.
Also in 1985, the FBI named the Jewish Defense League as the second
most active terrorist group in the United States. (Only Puerto Rican
terrorists were more active during this period.) The FBI linked the
JDL to 37 terrorist attacks carried out from 1977 to 1984. (note 56)

Two years later, the FBI announced that Jewish extremist groups had
carried out 24 terrorist acts from 1981 through 1986, 17 of which were
the work of the Jewish Defense League. (note 57)

Another US federal government agency, the Department of Energy,
similarly characterized the JDL in a report issued in 1986: (note 58)

For more than a decade, the Jewish Defense League (JDL) has been one
of the most active terrorist groups in the United States. Although the
JDL maintains that it is a political action group concerned with
dramatizing the plight of Soviet Jewry and, in more general terms,
protecting Jews and Jewish interests worldwide, the FBI has long
classified it as a terrorist organization.

...The underlying purpose of the JDL is to reverse the mythical image
of the Jews as victims. This militancy also fuels the anti-Soviet
campaign designed to create and foment new sources of tension in
Soviet-American relations ...

The JDL, however, has also attacked Arab, Iranian, Iraqi, Egyptian,
Palestinian, Lebanese, French, and German targets in the United States
... In 1978 [for example], Egyptian diplomats were targeted...Attacks
have also been staged by League chapters in France, Britain, Italy and
Israel.

In more recent years, the official report went on,
The JDL has pursued a dual-track strategy of acts of civil
disobedience and generally peaceful protest, along with acts of
outright terrorism...Bombing is the JDL's favorite tactic, accounting
for 78 percent of all JDL incidents. Shootings are next, accounting
for 16 percent, followed by arson, vandalism, and kidnaping,
accounting for one percent each ...

Since 1968, JDL operations have killed seven persons and wounded at
least 22...Sixty-two percent of all JDL attacks are directed against
property; 30 percent against businesses; four percent against
academics and academic institutions; and two percent against religious
targets.

Typically, an anonymous caller will claim responsibility for a
specific terrorist act for either the JDL or one of its alleged
subgroups, only to have an official spokesman for the JDL deny the
group's involvement the following day.

In the past, although the JDL was among the most active terrorist
organizations in the United States, the threat it posed appeared to be
primarily symbolic...Recent events, however, suggest that this view
requires revision. The increase of militant Jewish terrorism
represents not only an escalation of violence, but a significant
change in targeting patterns, as well as a dramatic shift in tactics.

...The group appears to be concentrating its efforts on persons and
institutions it considers to be enemies of Judaism and Israel. The
targets now [1986] include alleged former Nazis and war criminals;
Palestinian and Arab individuals and institutions; and persons and
so-called research centers promoting views about the Holocaust that
minimize the dimensions of Jewish suffering.

Perhaps the most far-reaching change, however, is the increasing use
of assassination, both to draw attention to the terrorists' causes and
to eliminate perceived enemies of the Jewish people and Israel.
Mordechai Levy and the Jewish Defense Organization
Besides Kahane, two of the most prominent JDL activists have been Irv
Rubin and Mordechai Levy. Each has been repeatedly arrested for
criminal activities.

Until 1982 or 1983, Mordechai (Mark) Levy was one of the most active
of Jewish Defense League activists. (note 59) Among his numerous
arrests was one in 1981 as a suspect in a car bombing. (note 60) On
one occasion he dressed up in a full regalia Nazi uniform to apply for
a parade permit to march at Independence Hall in Philadelphia,
apparently in an effort to alert the local Jewish community to the
"dangers of neo-Nazism." (note 61)

After leaving the JDL (supposedly because it was not "militant
enough") he founded the Jewish Defense Organization. He claimed that
his group, based in New York City, had more than 3,000 members. (The
real figure was probably no more than a few dozen.) In the years that
followed, Levy and rival Zionist militant Irv Rubin engaged in
increasingly bitter feuding.

In August 1989, Levy was arrested following a dramatic night-time
confrontation with Rubin and other JDL members. Fearing that Rubin was
trying to kill him, Levy went to the roof of the building where he
lived and began spraying the lower Manhattan street with semiautomatic
rifle fire, wounding an air-conditioning repairman as he sat in his
parked van. (note 62) Levy was later sentenced to four and a half
years imprisonment for injuring the 69-year-old repairman. (note 63)

On April 22, 1993, Jewish Defense Organization members attacked
demonstrators who had gathered in Washington, DC, to protest the US
Holocaust Memorial Museum. At least one person was seriously injured.
A JDO spokesman told reporters that several members of his group had
attacked and beat "four or five" of the 150 or so persons who had
rallied to express their opposition to the Museum. (note 64)

One of the victims was David Willcox, a 52-year-old employee of the
Washington Suburban Sanitary Commission. He was standing on a street
corner when three men wearing black "paramilitary" uniforms and skull
caps with the Star of David attacked, beating him on the head and legs
with metal pipes. Willcox required hospitalization and 12 stitches in
his head.

Two JDO members later confirmed the attack against Willcox. JDO
spokesman Michael Schneider told a reporter that his group would
continue to do "whatever is necessary " to "defend" Jews, including
attacking "enemies" in the street. The FBI said that it is
investigating the attack against Willcox as a possible act of
"domestic terrorism," while city police announced that they were
looking into the incident as a possible "hate crime." (As we go to
press, though, no arrests have been made.)

Irv Rubin

Since the early 1970s, Irv Rubin has been perhaps the most prominent
Jewish Defense League activist and spokesman. After a time as leader
of the group's JDL's West coast operations, he emerged as "national
chairman" of the post-Kahane JDL. By 1979, Rubin had managed to get
arrested 39 times in connection with JDL activities. (note 65)

In March 1992, Irv Rubin was arrested on suspicion of conspiring to
commit murder. He was released a few days later after the Los Angeles
district attorney's office determined that police lacked sufficient
evidence to hold him. (note 66)

In August 1992, Rubin's JDL succeeded in forcing a Los Angeles
restaurant and nightclub, the Largo, to cancel a concert on behalf of
the Palestine Aid Society, to raise money for humanitarian assistance.
Rubin warned Largo proprietor Mark Flanagan that he could "expect
trouble" and an "angry protest" unless he cancelled the event. Soon
after, Flanagan discovered that his business' door locks had been
destroyed by still-dripping fast-acting molecular glue. Then, just
hours before the event was to begin, Flanagan canceled the concert out
of fear that patrons might be victims of a possible JDL attack. (note
67)

Violence Against Holocaust Revisionists

Among the most persistent targets of Jewish terrorists in recent years
have been those who reject the generally accepted Holocaust story that
six million Jews were systematically murdered in Europe during the
Second World War.

In recent decades, a growing number of scholars have been citing an
impressive body of evidence that raises serious doubts about many
supposedly well-documented aspects of the Holocaust story. These
"Holocaust revisionists" include acclaimed best-selling British
historian David Irving, French professor Dr. Robert Faurisson and Dr.
Arthur Butz of Northwestern University. (For more about Holocaust
revisionism and the arguments of revisionist historians, write for a
catalog of books, tapes and other material from the Institute for
Historical Review.)

Incidents of violence against revisionist "thought criminals" have
included:

George Ashley, a high school history teacher and supporter of the IHR,
has been the target of several terrorist attacks because of his
revisionist views. In April 1982, two bricks were hurled through the
front window of his suburban Los Angeles home. One month later, two
gasoline fire bombs were thrown against the front of his house, and in
December of 1982, JDL criminals ransacked Ashley's home, causing an
estimated $26,000 in damage. (note 68) Mordechai Levy later boasted:
"We warned him [Ashley] that if he continued his activity, he would
pay a consequence...We warned that if the school board does not stop
Ashley, we would stop him." (note 69) In July 1984, Ashley received
repeated telephone calls from someone who threatened to bomb his home.
A JDL member identified by police from tape-recordings of the threats
was later arrested. (note 70) In August 1984, JDL member Michael S.
Canale was arrested on suspicion of making a bomb threat against
George Ashley. (note 71)

In May 1985, Ashley's home was the target of a another bomb attack, in
which no one was hurt. The letters "JDL" were spray-painted on the
walkway leading to Ashley's front door. (note 72) This attack was
cited in a January 1986 federal government report: (note 73) The
following month [May 1985], the JDL claimed credit for bombing the
house of George Ashley, Los Angeles-area high school teacher who had
told students that the number of Jews killed by the Nazis during World
War II was considerably less than the commonly accepted figure of six
million, and that not more than a million Jews perished during the
war. Dr. Charles Weber, a contributor to the IHR's Journal of
Historical Review, had his car vandalized in two separate incidents
during the month of April 1985. A note from the JDL, which threatened
to escalate the attacks into a bombing, was left behind in the second
incident. (note 74) Dr. Reinhard K. Buchner, a professor of physics at
California State University, Long Beach, and a member of the IHR
Editorial Advisory Committee (1980-1983), was the victim of repeated
JDL harassment in 1981, 1982 and early 1983. He was spat upon,
physically attacked, threatened by phone, and harassed at his office
and home. (note 75) German-Canadian publisher Ernst Z�ndel, a
prominent revisionist activist, has been repeatedly attacked by the
Jewish Defense League. In December 1983, JDL thugs beat him on the
steps of Toronto's Old City Hall. The JDL carried out another attack
against him on February 6, 1984. In September 1984, Z�ndel's home in
Toronto was damaged in a pipe-bomb attack. A group calling itself "The
People's Liberation Army of the Jewish Defense League" claimed
responsibility in a phone call to a local television station. In
January 1985, a JDL mob attacked Z�ndel, his attorney Doug Christie
and Christie's female legal secretary at the entrance to a Toronto
courthouse.

The office of a German-American group was set on fire in 1985,
apparently because of the organization's skepticism about Holocaust
claims. According to a report on terrorism issued in January 1986 by
the federal Department of Energy, in June 1985 (note 76), an anonymous
caller stated that the JDL had intentionally set fire to the offices
of the German-American Political Action Committee in Santa Monica,
California. The German-American group probably incurred the JDL's
wrath by its advocacy of the view that "Jews were not gassed by the
Nazis...[and that] numbers and reports of predetermined extermination
are greatly exaggerated by professional liars."

Target: Institute for Historical Review

Since its founding in 1978, the Institute for Historical Review has
been the leading American publisher of books and other materials
questioning the Holocaust extermination story. For this reason, its
office in southern California, as well as individual IHR employees,
soon became targets of a systematic campaign that included a drive-by
shooting, three firebombings, vandalization of IHR employee-owned
automobiles, slashings of 22 tires of employee automobiles,
JDL-organized demonstrations outside the IHR office, and numerous
telephone threats during office hours and at night to IHR employees at
home. So intense did the harassment become that the family of one IHR
employee was forced to move. (note 77)

During the course of a JDL demonstration in front of the IHR office on
March 19, 1981, Mordechai Levy and other JDL protesters attacked the
car of the landlord's agent, who had arrived to ensure security. While
shouting threats, Levy smashed the right front passenger window of the
man's car as he drove off. (note 78)

A few weeks later, on April 5, 1981, JDL hoodlums staged another
violent demonstration outside the IHR office, during which an IHR
employee was thrown to the ground and beaten.

In the early morning hours of June 25, 1981, came the first
firebombing attack against the IHR office. Fortunately, the arson
device-similar to a "Molotov cocktail"-caused only minor damage. A man
claiming to represent the "Jewish Defenders" announced responsibility
for the attack in phone calls to news agencies. (note 79)

The second arson attack against the IHR office came on April 25, 1982,
in which a copy machine, a few pieces of furniture and some records
were damaged. In a telephone message to a local news agency, a group
calling itself "the Jewish Defenders" claimed responsibility. (note
80)

In an attack on September 5, 1982, the IHR office was riddled with
gunfire, demolishing two windows and damaging the front door.
Additionally, a small arson device caused some slight damage to the
front of the office. Later that day, as throughout the week, came a
barrage of murder-threatening telephone calls. Although the caller's
voice was identified as that of Mordechai Levy, typically, no one was
arrested in the case. (note 81)

Fire-Bombing Arson Attack

This terror campaign culminated in a devastating arson attack on the
Institute's offices and warehouse in Torrance on July 4, 1984 -- the
209th anniversary of American independence. Damage in the attack,
carried out in the early morning hours of the 4th, was estimated at
$400,000. (note 82)

In a special edition of the IHR Newsletter (August 1984), IHR Director
J. Marcellus summed up:

As a physical entity, the Institute for Historical Review has
virtually ceased to exist. Ninety percent of our book and tape
inventory-the largest collection of revisionist historical literature
to be found anywhere-has been wiped out. Every last piece of office
equipment and machinery-including desks, chairs, files and shelves-lay
in charred heaps of useless, twisted scrap. Manuscripts, documents,
artwork, galleys and film negatives-products of more than six long
years of a tough, dedicated effort to bring suppressed historical data
to people the world over-no longer exist. Tens of thousands of
books...estimated at over $300,000 in value, are gone...More than
2,500 square feet of space that was once the world's most
controversial publisher lies blackened in chaos and total ruin.
Two days later, JDL leader Irv Rubin showed up at the site of the
gutted IHR offices to publicly praise the arson attack. The JDL, he
declared, "wholeheartedly applauds the recent devastation of the
offices of the Institute for Historical Review." Denying any personal
responsibility himself, Rubin said that the criminal attack had been
carried out by a former JDL activist named Larry Winston (Joel Cohen).
"I believe, with all my heart, that he [Winston/Cohen] had something
to do with this" arson, Rubin declared. (note 83)
Although no one was ever arrested in connection with the 1984
firebombing, the sophisticated nature of the attack suggests that it
could have been the work of trained operatives of a foreign
governmental agency.

Apart from local news coverage, American newspapers and television
reported almost nothing about this act of criminal "book burning."
This skewed media treatment moved noted journalist Alexander Cockburn
to observe (in the pages of the liberal weekly The Nation): (note 84)
The outfit in the United States that does publish material belittling
generally accepted accounts of the Nazi extermination of the Jews is
called the Institute for Historical Review. I don't recall much fuss
when its offices in Torrance, California, were firebombed in July
1984. Perhaps this is what Mailer meant by "sophistication" in
handling such heterodox opinion.

At the same time, though, a few prominent voices courageously spoke
out against the attack. American historian John Toland-who received
the Pulitzer prize for general non-fiction in 1971 for his book The
Rising Sun -- wrote to the IHR: (note 85)

When I learned of the torching of the office-warehouse of the
Institute for Historical Review, I was shocked. And when I heard no
condemnation of this act of terrorism on television and read no
protests in the editorial pages of our leading newspapers or from the
halls of Academe, I was dismayed and incensed...I call on all true
believers in democracy to join me in public denunciation of the recent
burning of books in Torrance, California.

British historian David Irving, author of numerous acclaimed,
best-selling works of history, declared: "I was deeply shocked to hear
of the fire-bomb attack on your premises."

JDL Harassment of IHR Conference

In mid-February 1989, Jewish Defense League intimidation brought on
the cancellation of a three-day Institute for Historical Review
conference at two hotel sites in southern California.
Arrangements had been made months in advance to hold the Ninth IHR
Conference at the Red Lion Inn hotel in Costa Mesa. Several days
before it was to begin, the hotel received the first of a barrage of
telephone threats warning that if it permitted the IHR gathering to
take place as scheduled, there would be large, disruptive
demonstrations in front of the hotel. It didn't take many such threats
to persuade general manager Russell Cox to cave in to the Zionist
group, and to cancel the hotel's contract with the IHR. Cox then added
insult to injury by permitting JDL chief Rubin to hold a "news
conference" in the hotel lobby.

Arrangements were then hastily made to relocate the IHR gathering to a
nearby Holiday Inn hotel. However, just hours before it was to
commence- and as attendees were arriving-the Holiday Inn likewise
cancelled out, bowing to JDL threats similar to those made against the
Red Lion Inn.

At this point, and with help from former US Congressman John Schmitz,
IHR Director J. Marcellus made emergency arrangements with Joe
Bischof, proprietor of the "Old World Village" shopping center in
Huntington Beach, to hold the IHR Conference there. Bischof refused to
bow to JDL intimidation, including a demonstration at the site by a
handful of sorry-looking placard-waving JDLers led by Rubin, who
shouted insults at passersby. In spite of the disruption, and some
inconvenience for attendees, the Ninth IHR Conference proved one of
the most successful and high-spirited ever. (note 86)

JDL Thugs Attack Young Jewish Revisionist

On January 22, 1992, revisionist activist David Cole was attacked by
JDL thugs at a meeting held at the University of California at Los
Angeles. Before the meeting began, JDL leader Rubin first tried to
push the youthful Cole down a flight of stairs. JDL hoodlums also
harassed and pushed around meeting organizer Robert Morrissey. After
the meeting commenced, JDL punks tried to shout down the speakers, and
then threw food at Cole. Finally, a JDL thug assaulted Cole-who is
Jewish-hitting him in the face and bloodying his nose. (note 87)
The tumult was recorded on videotape by a camera crew of the CBS
television news program "48 Hours," as well as by news crews of two
local Los Angeles television stations. Neither of the two local
stations mentioned a word of the incident in their nightly news
broadcasts. Similarly, CBS officials decided not to air even a second
of this outburst, not even in a segment about Holocaust revisionism
that was part of the CBS television network's hour-long
magazine-format program "48 Hours" broadcast of February 26, 1992.
Network officials apparently decided that scenes of Zionist hoodlums
beating a young Jewish revisionist would not "fit" with the image of
revisionism that CBS wanted to project to its many viewers. (note 88)

Violence in Europe
The Murder of Fran�ois Duprat

In France, Fran�ois Duprat-a gifted young historian, educator, and
prolific writer-was murdered in 1978, thereby becoming the first
person to be killed because of his support for Holocaust revisionism.
Duprat had publicized the writings of former concentration camp inmate
Paul Rassinier, distributed a booklet, Did Six Million Really Die?,
and had published a revisionist article of his own, "The Mystery of
the Gas Chambers." (note 89)

As a result of such activism, the 38-year-old teacher was assassinated
on March 18, 1978, when the car he was driving was blown up in a bomb
blast. His wife, who was with him, lost the use of her legs in the
attack. A Jewish "Remembrance Commando" and a "Jewish Revolutionary
Group" promptly claimed responsibility for the murder. (note 90) So
sophisticated was the attack that it is difficult to believe that no
government agency was involved.

The Israel Connection

It is no secret that Israel provides training and weapons for local
"Jewish defense groups" in the United States and many other countries.
Victor Ostrovsky, a former intelligence case officer of the Mossad,
Israel's spy and secret service agency, confirms this connection in
his much-discussed book, By Way of Deception. (note 91) One department
of the Mossad, writes Ostrovsky, is the Tsafririm, which is
responsible for setting up Jewish defense groups, called "frames," or
misgerot, all over the world, now including some parts of the United
States, where anti-Semitism is regarded as a threat ... The main job
is to help the leaders of Jewish communities outside Israel plan for
their own security. Part of this is done through the hets va-keshet,
or "bow and arrow," Israel's paramilitary youth brigades.

... Often youths from other countries are brought over [to Israel] to
spend the summer learning about security, picking up such skills as
completing obstacle courses, pitching tents, and learning how to use a
sniper rifle and Uzi assault rifle. Still others learn upgraded
security skills, such as how to build a slick, for hiding weapons or
documents, when and how to do security checks, as well as fundamentals
of investigation and intelligence gathering.
Israel provides weapons for the many "Jewish defense groups," confirms
Ostrovsky, indirectly through known arms dealers.

Tagar/Betar

In Europe the most important Zionist terrorist group is Tagar, the
youth (or "student") branch of the radical Zionist movement Betar. The
Tagar/Betar group has carried out numerous criminal attacks against
"enemies," including Holocaust revisionists. Headquartered in Paris,
Tagar/Betar has close ties with the Israeli government, and
particularly with the political party of Begin and Shamir. Tagar is
reportedly controlled by Israel's covert operations agency, the
Mossad. (note 92)

Tagar activists have often boasted of their determination to "strike"
against anyone who "denies the Holocaust." Tagar admitted
responsibility for a physical assault against French revisionist
historian Olivier Mathieu during a television interview in February
1990. Three months later, Tagar thugs sacked the "Ogmios" bookstore in
Paris (which carried revisionist titles).

Tagar/Betar activists receive combat training along military lines
from Israeli army officers. Tagar members wear paramilitary blue
uniforms with white ties (the Zionist colors). Tagar/Betar has
operated in Europe with the knowledge and approval of high French
officials such as Prime Minister Laurent Fabius (who is Jewish). In
more than one Tagar/Betar attack against opponents, French police have
passively stood by. (note 93)

Tagar activists have operated in France under other names, including
"Jewish Defense Organization" and "Jewish Combat Organization."
Private para-military groups are strictly forbidden in France, except
Jewish ones. Between June 1976 and April 1991, such Jewish "militias"
have carried out 50 attacks. In effect, Jewish terrorists in Europe
can attack their "enemies" with impunity. (note 94)

Tagar has also been active in the United States. In February 1992, the
"Tagar Student Zionist Organization at the Ohio State University" in
Columbus organized a protest meeting against Holocaust revisionism.
The group distributed a leaflet-which, typically, contained factual
falsehoods-specifically attacking revisionist activist Bradley Smith.
(note 95)

Robert Faurisson

Dr. Robert Faurisson-Europe's most prominent Holocaust revisionist
(and a member of the Editorial Advisory Committee of the IHR's Journal
of Historical Review) -- was severely injured in a nearly fatal attack
on September 16, 1989. (note 96)

After spraying a stinging gas into his face, temporarily blinding him,
three assailants punched him to the ground and then repeatedly kicked
him in the face and chest. The 60-year-old scholar, who had been out
walking his poodle in a park in his home town of Vichy, suffered a
broken jaw and severe head injuries. Physicians operated for four and
a half hours to repair his jaw and treat a broken rib and badly
swollen face.

A group calling itself "The Sons of the Memory of the Jews" claimed
responsibility for the savage attack. In a statement, the group
threatened:

"Professor Faurisson is the first, but will not be the last. Let those
who deny the Shoah [Holocaust] beware." (note 97) While French police
officially would acknowledge only that "three young Jewish activists
from Paris" had carried out the assault, the attackers are strongly
suspected to have been with the Tagar/Betar organization. (note 98)
Prominent individuals and organizations in France, along with the
country's most influential daily newspaper, Le Monde, condemned the
attack. However, French-Jewish "Nazi hunter" Serge Klarsfeld sought to
excuse or justify the crime. "Someone who has provoked the Jewish
community for years should expect this sort of thing," he said. "One
cannot insult the memory of the victims without inviting the
consequences." (note 99)

While the September 1989 attack against Faurisson was the most
vicious, it was neither the first nor the last. Between November 1978
and May 1993, he was attacked on ten separate occasions. (note 100)

Other Terrorist Incidents in Europe

On November 5, 1980, an arson attack destroyed the office, warehouse
and printing plant in Sussex, southern England, of the firm that
prints Did Six Million Really Die? and other revisionist publications
of the Historical Review Press. Damage was estimated at 50,000 pounds.
A leftist journalist, Manny Carpel, was found guilty of the crime, and
sentenced to two and a half years imprisonment. (He served only a
little more than a year.) In January 1984, in Cologne, Germany,
Professor Hermann Greive, a non-Jewish authority on Jewish religious
writings, was shot to death by a member of Kahane's Kach group. The
murder was reportedly carried out in keeping with a Jewish scriptural
injunction that demands death for non-Jews who "pry" into Jewish
religious writings. (note 101)

On February 10, 1988, terrorists set fire to the automobile of German
historian Ernst Nolte while it was parked at the Free University in
Berlin, where he was a professor. An anonymous letter, signed with a
five-pointed star, declared: "We attack Nolte because he is one of
those who personally represents the continuity of fascism" and as
co-founder of a "reactionary" group called the "Academic Freedom
League." Nolte had been widely criticized for his moderately
revisionist views of Second World War history. (note 102)

On April 20, 1991, Betar/Tagar thugs carried out a violent attack
against several persons who were to attend a conference in Paris on
the French writer Marc Augier. (Under the pen name of Saint-Loup,
Augier wrote a series of books on the French "Legion of Volunteers,"
which fought on the eastern front during the Second World War.) Three
or four of the victims were hospitalized. One, a 67-year-old woman,
was in a coma for two months. Two Tagar members were arrested in
connection with the attack, but two and a half years later they had
still not been brought to trial. (note 103) A bookstore in Paris had
to be shut down for good in 1992 after repeated violent attacks by
Jewish militants. The bookstore was targeted because it sold
revisionist titles and was operated by revisionist publisher Pierre
Guillaume.

On October 19, 1992, a team of about 30 Betar activists shoved and
insulted pedestrians, smashed automobiles, and threw tear gas at
police in the central plaza of the German city of Rostock. The group
was led by the "Nazi-hunting" (and anti-revisionist) husband-wife team
of Serge and Beate Klarsfeld. The Betar activists, some of them
carrying Israeli flags, insulted passersby with shouts of "Dirty
Germans! Dirty Nazis!". (note 104) In December 1992, the chief of the
Jewish Defense League in Israel announced that he was sending teams of
killers to Germany to murder "neo-Nazis." Every German who cries "Heil
Hitler," or otherwise identifies himself as a Nazi, declared
33-year-old Rabbi Baruch Ben-Joseph (Baruch Green), is a target for
death. (note 105) Prominent German far-right political figures are not
the only persons on the Israel JDL's hit list, confided one JDL
member: "Persons behind the scenes are often more important, such as
the professor who denies or whitewashes the Holocaust in a book."
(note 106)


Conclusion

As this report shows, non-governmental Zionist terrorism has been a
problem for more than twenty years. It remains a serious problem
today.

Espousing Jewish supremacy, the Zionist terrornetwork operates
internationally, linking Israel, Europe and the United States. In
addition to the suffering and destruction resulting directly from its
many crimes, the network's campaign of bigotry fosters a dangerous
climate of hate and intolerance. Through intimidation, threat and
violence, Jewish-Zionist terrorists have succeeded in silencing
numerous voices. Many others have never spoken up out of fear that
they might likewise become victims.

Particularly alarming is the important support provided to these
criminal groups by the government of Israel. This official
collaboration poses a threat not only to the freedom and security of
individuals in many countries, but to the very freedom and sovereignty
of nations.

At the same time, though, the danger should not be exaggerated.
Zionist power is formidable but not limitless.
For one thing, Jewish militants are often so inept and mutually
suspicious that they squander much of their energy on attacks against
each other. (note 107)

Moreover, the number of individuals and organizations that Zionist
militants perceive as "anti-Semitic enemies" has increased so
dramatically in recent years that any one person or group is less
likely to be singled out for attack. (Even the much-feared
"anti-Semite" epithet has lost much of its impact. In 1991, an Israeli
government cabinet minister denounced President George Bush as
"anti-Semitic" because he wasn't acting quickly enough in approving a
$10 billion loan guarantee to Israel.)"

No User


http://www.ihr.org/ www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/

http://www.natvan.com http://www.nsm88.org

http://heretical.com/ http://immigration-globalization.blogspot.com/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: MY NAME IS KHAN - MOVIE REVIEW
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/d215c97aa3af3a9a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 2 2010 7:24 pm
From: usenet@mantra.com and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)


Forwarded article

My Name is Khan -- Movie Review

Tuesday, March 2, 2010

My Name is Khan -- Movie Review

By Desh Kapoor
kavitachhibber.com

Last night, I went to watch "My Name is Khan". A lot has been said
about the movie by many parties, and it is best to see things for
yourself to make a sound judgment than to trash it or eulogize it by
hearsay.

First lets get the assessment of the movie related stuff out. Story-
wise and innovativeness wise it was a bummer. Shah Rukh was copying
Dustin Hoffman to the hilt. The story had a strong flavor of Rain
Man, of how Dustin Hoffman (Raymond) and Tom Cruise (Charlie) go
around the country and the sort of experiences they have. The parts
on how SRK goes to the small Georgian town of Wilhimena after the
hurricane was over dramatized and also the part on Obama. It wasn't
such an intelligent plot and in the end pretty melodramatic.
Compared to "3 Idiots", it was really mediocre.. and honestly there
were many weaknesses in "3 Idiots" itself.

Now, what was disturbing was not its mediocrity but three things:
Stereotypes, Exaggeration andContext. Lets talk about these aspects
of the movie.

Stereotypes

What was really sad about this movie was that it was made ostensibly
to disparage Stereotypes ("My name is Khan and I am not a
Terrorist"), and yet it tried to do that by RE-INFORCING stereotypes
for everyone else (Non-Muslims) in an attempt to bring home its
message. It was almost as if one wanted to appear Holy by throwing
mud at the others so one could look cleaner in comparison!

White people, overwhelmingly, were shown to be heartless or racial.
Black people were supposed to be dumb and poor, and therefore, nice.
Muslims, were shown to be besieged everywhere -- whether its India or
US, and therefore retaliating. Law enforcement officials in the US
were shown, as a generality, to be without any humanity or not
following any rule of law.. and above all, threatening.

I will speak to these in detail, but one small piece -- which was
specific and bad case of mis-information and lack of credible
research into this movie was Rizwan's (SRK) experience in the jail!
The torture of sleeplessness and other things (change of
temperatures, lack of access to information, unusable toilet seats)
are NOT from the US jail system (however bad it may be), but from
Guantanamo Bay prisons. Yes, the torture in Guantanamo has happened
and it is disturbing, but to suggest that every Muslim, despite his
or her medical condition, who goes to a US Jail, is subjected to such
torture as a regular means of treatment is farcical, very
mischievious and plays right in to the hands of the Jihadi
propaganda.

Now about the stereotypes that this movie promoted.

White people

Lets be clear. White man is generally taken to be a proxy of the
"West". So, when one talks of stereotypes of Whites or of the West,
the world talks of basically synonyms. Unfortunately, that is the
truth behind the scenes. Hence, I wanted to get that pretense of the
holier-than-thou liberals out of the way! When you are showing a
stereotype about Whites, you are basically trying to make a statement
on the West.

So, from the boys who killed Sam, to the people who threaten the shop
keepers to the law enforcement agencies..... it seems White people
are incarnations of devil and somehow highly insensitive! And
against their normal grain, they turn "human" only when they are
close to you as friends but change when they face any tough situation
(Reese abetted killing of Sam because of his anger). Somehow, it is
always a matter of celebration and something out of usual, if they
"act nicely" to you. If you listen to the Jihadi talk and read their
propaganda, this is precisely what they are always trying to portray
about the white man and the West!! MNIK's portrayal of the White Man
(and West by proxy) is a page out of Jihadi propaganda book and NOT
based on a liberal and secular sensibilities!

I have spoken on my blog against how Avatar shows as if unless White
man helps people of some other planet, even those tribes won't do
anything worthwhile (reinforcing the "White Man's burden"
construct!). So, stereotypes are perpetuated in both ways. And
trying to portray the other extreme because Hollywood portrays one is
very self-defeating indeed..

So, while James Cameron's stereotype in Avatar betrays a Colonial
mind-set and therefore offensive; Karan Johar and SRK's stereotype
betrays the "Muslim ghettoes and Jihadi brain-washing" mind-set and
therefore offensive.

Truth is somewhere in between.

Black People

Black People, whenever shown, are shown as "victims", "stupid" and
"downtrodden" who are nice to talk to simply because of their "subtly
projected" lower economic condition and IQ. Its the romantic
(socialist ideology driven primarily) notion that many times Raj
Kapoor showed of the poor slum dwellers vs Rich men in his movies.
Bollywood movies have many times been down this road of showing poor
men with humanity and rich men as heartless as a stereotype, which is
a completely Socialist and Communist construct. Not all poor and
downtrodden are nice and not all rich and privileged are inhuman.
And since, in the US, only blacks happen to be embodiment of poverty
and downtrodden and White men as the rich abettors of crime in the
popular folk-lore perpetuated around the world, especially so in the
Jehadi narratives, that's what somehow creeps into this movie as
well.

Muslims

Muslims are somehow shown as besieged every where. They are victims
incarnate. Whether it is the narrative after the riots or in the
speech of the extremist in the mosque (which was not the point Rizwan
counters, rather he clarifies a theological point of sacrifice of his
son's blood by Ishmael). Even in school its the same narrative as it
is in businesses.

Now, I have lived through the years since 9-11 in the US. I have
been working with Muslims and also seen the businesses in Houston,
the most conservative of cities as they come in the US. No other
businesses have prospered as much as those of people who worked hard
and had the right idea. There are Pakistani women and men who have
grown exponentially and from a strictly desi clientele gotten a
strong American clients on their roster of customers. Yes, and I am
talking of Salons more than any other businesses.. IN HOUSTON!! So,
if I were to talk of California, the most liberal state in the US and
San Francisco, one of the decidedly most liberal of cities in that
state, then the narrative of Mandira's salon going out of business
because of her Khan last name is nothing but a cruel caricature! It
is so misinformed and misinformingthat it could have easily been
written by the likes of Zaid Hamid and Hamid Gul than by a well
informed Secularist or Humanist Muslim.

To epitomize Muslims as Victims is a strong Jehadi need and
imperative. If you understand the historic narrative of Islam, you
will realize that Victimization has been very deeply stitched into
its fabric. And with the narrative of Victimization has come closely
the narrative of "fighting back" and killing the other. In Quran,
however, the narrative of Victimization is defined from the
standpoint of Belief (in the 3 main tenets of Islam -- Day of
Judgment, Belief in Allah, and following Muhammad's example) and
retaliation is to Non-Belief (or Kufr).

Victimization as a central precept has been the most effective way of
creating converts to any cause, with a apparently egalitarian agenda
but, which in reality, turns out to be an extremist agenda.
Communism is another great example of that.

There can never be an equality of human experiences, and it cannot be
enforced by any means ever. What is there however, scientifically
and spiritually, is the equality of existence itself. This equality
cannot be enforced but can be experienced.

The issue is that those who have set out to take their followers to
the "promised land of equality" have turned them into extremists who
fight the world which lives and revels in its diversity.

Enforcing Equality NECESSARILY leads to Suppression of Diversity.

It is no wonder therefore, that in the societies and the groups where
enforcement (not exploration) of Equality is the Central precept,
expression of desent is highest evil! Whether it is Islamic
societies or the Communist societies, heretical expression is
reserved the highest punishment.

It is in this context of the "Three Narratives", as I call them, that
the depiction of Victimization should be viewed. The Three
Narratives are:

Narrative # 1: Explicitly desire that you want to push your ideology
on the other guy and that the other guy should swear by your ideology
as the ONLY "Truth" and that such a desire is an order of your god.
Any action that bars you from carrying out such an action is
sufficient and legitimate proof of "Victimization".

Narrative #2: That, if you are "Victimized", you have enough and
sufficient justification to Kill the "perpetrator" -- the guy who
wanted to NOT go by your desires of swearing by your ideology and
bowing to your god.

Narrative #3: The ideology is not "Anti-Peace" or against humanity as
the Narrative #2 may suggest. Killing, after all, is only a
specialized punishment for those who "Harm" or "Victimize" you.
Otherwise, its all "good".

If you look Sura 2 from verse 191 through 192, the entire argument
for the three narratives is clearly and unequivocally established.

It is clear if one were to look closely, that Victimization as a
narrative is the CENTRAL argument that abets Terrorism, also called
Jihad. I know that there are diferent "types" of Jihad listed in the
book, but until now, I have not seen anyone practising them nor
discussing them as an anti-dote to violence and way to peace in the
world, specially in a dialog with the extremists. So, let's go by
what is being practised and not what exists merely in arguments.

Exaggeration

This was the most mischievious of the entire story line. Yes,
attacks happened on Sikhs and on Muslims in the US post 9-11, but
they were by NO MEANS or stretch of imagination, a trend! I was not
following all the attacks, but if I would have to hazard a guess not
more than maybe couple of dozen attacks may have occured on the
Muslim families and individuals due to religious intolerance. I know
a few Sikhs also got killed, but even those attacks were less than
half a dozen in the last 10 years.

I don't know of ANY incident where school kids would have targeted
the Muslim kids in a way to kill them or subject violence on them.
My daughter and those of my friends also go to schools in Texas,
which as I said before, is as conservative as any state in the US can
get. And these kids have Muslims, indeed my daughter had a Pakistani
Muslim in her class. I have asked her about him and what other kids
think of him. There is nothing different that they think of him than
her or other friends of a different enthnicity.

I have seen quite a few countries and interacted with people of still
many more countries, even those I have not visited. And I can say
categorically that US and Canada are perhaps the MOST tolerant
countries on the face the earth right now. The crimes of
discrimination get so much coverage because these societies accept
and encourage dissent and justice. The plight of minorities in say,
Saudi Arabia or Pakistan or even Malaysia (the most progressive of
Islamic nations) can only be imagined.

And that is what makes this attempt in MNIK, if it was to talk about
HUMANITY and not forward the Muslim agenda per se, seem even more
disingenuous. Which leads me to the next category of my assessment -
the Context of the movie.

Context

Throughout the movie, I was trying to understand -- who was the target
audience of the message?

Because there seemed to be many.

In your face was thrown that it was the Non-Muslim world at large,
which was, for no particular reason, mis-understanding the Muslims,
and therefore indulging in a monumental injustice to the "Humanity at
large". The misunderstanding of the Muslims was not just a
Perception issue but a Injustice to Humanity issue.

Let me take an example. Rizwan goes to a motel of a Gujarati Hindu -
Jitesh-bhai. While they are talking, some white man (again a white
mind you!) came and threw stone at his window and drove away. In
anger, Jitesh-bhai, who has been having such attacks, because a
"silly white American" cannot tell the difference between a Hindu and
a Muslim, starts to shout how he hates the Muslims for having brought
such attacks on him even though he has nothing to with Jihad or
Islam. In fact, he might consider his own to be at the receiving end
of the same Jihadis back home!!

Now, this is shown as his injustice against humanity or at least as
insensitivity. Now, if one were to look at it purely the standpoint
of an Indian Muslim, he might think it was bad. But think of it from
the standpoint of a Hindu Businessman, who understands perfectly well
that here he is targeted as a proxy for being Muslim, and in India
the Pakistani and Pakistan-trained Indian Mujahideen target his
kith/kin because he is NOT Muslim!

Don't you think his plight is even worse?

In some cases, the context was also to educate the Muslims, specially
the scene in the Mosque where the discussion on Ishmael story takes
place and in a scene where Rizwan refers to the verse which says that
"killing one innocent* is like killing humanity" (* What is an
innocent from a theological standpoint as it is
believed/progagated/interpreted in many Mullahs can be viewed in the
videos below.)

It is very clear in the eyes of these people and others who follow
them that equal rights are only reserved for Muslims. These guys
speak up which many believe in because of their interpretations.

By the way the verse that Rizwan cites is not as unequivocal for
peace promotion as it is made out to be.

The story was of two brothers, son of Adam, where one brother murders
the other and the one who dies, accepts death. The son of Adam, who
is the murderer of his own brother is then sent, by Allah, a raven
(crow) who digs the ground to show how the murderer could hide his
brother's corpse and cover him up. This brother then becomes
repentent of what he had done. (link to all verses in this Sura)

http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/005.qmt.html

Then comes this verse, where it is said in context of the Children of
Israel or the Adam. However, this verse does NOT come without
conditions. Even though, killing any one from their own tribe/family
will be like killing the entire tribe, it can still be done if it is
believed:

(i) the other person murdered someone
(ii) spreading mischief in the land

Now, look at the video from Dr. Zakir Naik above to understand what
he is saying about the non-believers in Saudi Arabia. Non believers,
according to Ulemas cannot be allowed to propagate their faith in
Muslim lands, because that will create mischief. Now, one may be
tempted to ask the question, how does this logic change in the land
where Muslims live.. but as a minority? Mischief has nothing to do
with the numbers. It has to do with the faith/belief of one's own
self and that of the other!

005.032

YUSUFALI: On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel
that if any one slew a person -- unless it be for murder or for
spreading mischief in the land -- it would be as if he slew the whole
people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the
life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our
messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them
continued to commit excesses in the land.

PICKTHAL: For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel
that whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or
corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind,
and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the
life of all mankind. Our messengers came unto them of old with clear
proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty), but afterwards lo! many of them
became prodigals in the earth.

SHAKIR: For this reason did We prescribe to the children of
Israel that whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or
for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men; and
whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept alive all men; and
certainly Our messengers came to them with clear arguments, but even
after that many of them certainly act extravagantly in the land.

So, if Muslims were indeed the target audience, wouldn't it have been
better to analyze strains like Sufism?

Religious beliefs have NOTHING to do with God or Liberation. So, if
any one -- SRK or any other person -- says that he wanted to reinforce
a certain religious context because he felt it took one to God, then
that is patent nonsense!

Honest spiritual exploration is the only credible way to liberation
of mankind from its limited belief systems and to a more larger
whole. Honestly, Quranic Islam is not necessarily equal to
Spirituality. Sufism has tried to break away from it and in a lot of
cases the Sufis were forced to tow the traditionalist agenda simply
because of the force and fear of death. Some did fight that but many
did not and served the agenda of the religious.

For example, Tansen and AR Rehman were Hindus by belief and on their
brush with a "Sufi" converted. Now, Sufis are taken as Spiritualists
extraordinaire without argument. But anyone who even begins on a
spiritual journey understands that conversion is a decidedly
tribalistic agenda and has nothing to do with an Infinite
consciousness known as God. A real spiritualist will never talk of
religion or conversion. The very fact that these individuals were
converted by so-called Sufis is more a comment on those "Sufis" than
on anyone else.

So, just as wearing saffron and calling one a Guru does not mean that
one is Enlightened, similarly wearing large hair locks and talking
Sufi mumbo-jumbo does not mean that one is Enlightened. Therefore,
one needs to explore honestly.

Mainstream Islam based on Hadith and Quran has issues, whether SRK
and others may like one to believe or not is another question. But
there is a major issue with regards to how it approaches the non-
believers. Here are some verses in Quran that one would need to
discuss before we actually get to the peaceful verse that Rizwan
utters.

Some Quranic Verses Justifying Violence against non-believers

2:193, 8:39, 8:73, 85:10, 9:14-15, 8:17, 9:13, 2:251, 2:154, 9:19,
9:11, 9:120, 2:44, 8:72, 9:38, 33:36, 4:89, 9:12, 2:178, 5:45, 42:39,
5:33, 8:12, 47:4, 9:5, 2:190-194, 2:216-218, 3:167-175, 4:66, 4:74-
78, 4:95-96, 4:104, 5:54, 6:162, 8:12-16, 8:38-40, 8:57-62, 8:65-66,
8:72-75, 9:12-14, 9:19-21, 9:29, 9:36, 9:39, 9:44-46, 9:52, 9:81,
9:36-38, 9:93-94, 9:100, 9:123, 16:110, 22:39-40, 22:58, 25:68,
26:227, 33:25, 33:60-62, 47:20-21, 47:35, 48:16-22, 48:29, 49:9-10,
49:15, 57:10-11, 59:13-14, 61:4, 61:11-12, 73:20

It is a matter of concern for both the Believers and Non-believers
that such discussion is not undertaken.

So, wouldn't it have been better if one were to make a movie to
explore the spiritual questions by a Muslim and take on the religion
itself? Taking on of religion by the spiritual has been done many
times fruitfully -- J. Krishnamurti has done it, Buddha did it, Nanak
did it. It is a worthy exploration.

Reinforcing of religion can hardly be an attempt in the direction of
peace of any durable nature.

In my considered view, if one is serious about humanity, from a
Humanistic perspective, Islam (or any other religion) is not
important. However, an honest and independent exploration of the
spiritual will be of far greater value! Reinforcing the greatness of
any religion, as MNIK tries to do, is a meaningless exercise.

Desh Kapoor is a consultant and loves writing on different things.
You can read his blog at http://www.drishtikone.com

End of forwarded article

Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: "Even a moderate Muslim who reads the Koran must read that the Jews are
the sons of apes and that the infidels must be killed"
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/f9457aa8e9193f02?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 2 2010 7:44 pm
From: usenet@mantra.com and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)


In article <bb637f7d-dde9-4461-82d9-4b026badce4e@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
fanabba <fanabba@aol.com> posted:
>
> "Even a moderate Muslim who reads the Koran must read that the Jews
> are the sons of apes and that the infidels must be killed"
>
>
> http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/02/even-a-moderate-muslim-who-reads-the-koran-must-read-that-the-jews-are-the-sons-of-apes-and-that-the.html

Definition of a Moderate Muslim

Skittlebrau
http://skittlebrau.org/archives/20
Saturday, September 30, 2006

I left a flippant comment where I indicated my definition
of a "moderate" Muslim was also known as an "informant".
It was partially in jest, but partially serious in
remembering that, in fact, it was a Muslim informant who
helped UK law enforcement agencies foil the recent big
plot to destroy several airplanes using liquid
explosives. This kind of Muslim deserves recognition for
his actions, despite what he or she believes or espouses
as a part of his private life.

I think most of the frustration we feel when we pine for
a real, influential, "moderate" force in the Islamic
community, is a frustration in a lack of...

(Excerpt) Read more at skittlebrau.org ...
http://skittlebrau.org/archives/20

1 Posted on 9/30/2006 by most

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

-To: most

Oxymoron

2 Posted on 9/30/2006 by kinoxi (.)

Reply to 1

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

-To: kinoxi

Wanna know who the moderate Muslims are?

They're the one screaming "Death to extremists!! Behead
the extremists!! May Allah punish all extremists!!"

;^)

3 Posted on 9/30/2006 by elcid1970

Reply to 2

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-To: most

Moderate Muslim; Cuts heads off with a sharp knife.
Extreme Muslim; Cuts heads off with a dull knife.

4 Posted on 9/30/2006 by tobyhill
(The War on Terrorism is not for the weak.)

Reply to 1

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-To: elcid1970

A moderate muzzie is one that has run out of ammo

5 Posted on 9/30/2006 by Robert Warren Linville
(So proud of Free Republic that I use my real name)

Reply to 3

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-To: kinoxi

> Oxymoron

Or ignorance. A moderate muslim is one who is either
ignorant what Islam is all about, or in denial.

6 Posted on 9/30/2006 2:13:03 PM by Always Right

Reply to 2

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-To: most

How do they "moderate these commandments of muuuhamhead?
(Pigs be inseminating her)

Quran-4:89 � Take not friends from their ranks until they
flee in the way of Allah. But if they turn renegades,
seize them and kill them wherever ye find them; and take
no friends or helpers from their ranks.

Sura 9:5 of the "Koranus," "Slay the idolaters wherever
you find them, and take them captives and besiege them
and lie in wait for them in every ambush."

"Make war upon such of those to whom the Scriptures have
been given as believe not in God." Sura 9:29

"Strike off their heads then, and strike off from them
every finger tip." - Sura 8:12

There is no moderation, either they submit to the
koranus, or they dont.

7 Posted on 9/30/2006 by rawcatslyentist
(Never hurl the letter Q into a privet bush)

Reply to 1

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

-To: rawcatslyentist

Moderate Muslim?

These things require context:

What Arab Civilization?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1601183/posts

Arabs and Muslims appeared on the world scene in 630
A.D., when the armies of Muhammad began their conquest
of the Middle East. We should be very clear that this
was a military conquest, not a missionary enterprise,
and through the use of force, authorized by a
declaration of a Jihad against infidels, Arabs/Muslims
were able to forcibly convert and assimilate non-Arabs
and non-Mulsims into their fold. Very few indigenous
communities of the Middle East survived this --
primarily Assyrians, Jews, Armenians and Coptics (of
Egypt).

Having conquered the Middle East, Arabs placed these
communities under a Dhimmi (see the book Dhimmi, by
Bat Ye'Or) system of governance, where the communities
were allowed to rule themselves as religious
minorities (Christians, Jews and Zoroastrian). These
communities had to pay a tax (called a Jizzya in
Arabic) that was, in effect, a penalty for being non-
Muslim, and that was typically 80% in times of
tolerance and up to 150% in times of oppression. This
tax forced many of these communities to convert to
Islam, as it was designed to do.

To speak of a 'moderate Muslim' while ignoring reality of
the Arab/Muslim history is a little short sighted, imo.

8 Posted on 9/30/2006 by the anti-liberal
(OUR schools are damaging OUR children)

Reply to 7

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

-To: rawcatslyentist

The United States currently has foreign aid/military
assistance agreements and treaties with 36 different
predominately Muslim nations. Of the top 16 nations
receiving foreign aid last year, 6 were Islamic
republics: Egypt is number 2, Afghanistan is number 3,
Pakistan is number 4, Sudan is number 6, Jordan is number
7 and Indonesia is number 13. The foreign aid to those
six Muslim nations alone dwarfs what we give to Israel,
the number one foreign aid recipient.

Notice that the list above doesn't include other Muslim
nations that we have strong trade and strategic ties to
like Saudi Arabia, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates, and
Kuwait.

We are spending half a trillion dollars to nation build
in Iraq and Afghanistan.

There BETTER be "moderate Muslims!"

9 Posted on 9/30/2006 by jamese777

Reply to 7

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

-To: Robert Warren Linville

Heh, heh!

Or else, a moderate hezziemuzzie is one who realizes he
will get his sh#& blown away if he threatens anyone.

10 Posted on 9/30/2006 by elcid1970

Reply to 5

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

-To: elcid1970

Well, that fear would still make him more reality-
oriented than the worst of the muslims. Letting in reason
can do wonders for a fellow's longetivity. A moderate
indeed!

11 Posted on 9/30/2006 by most

Reply to 10

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

-To: most

a moderate (also read good) muslim is a dead muslim

12 Posted on 9/30/2006 by pipecorp
( Al Lahsuchs...Islam: nothing that a good crusade
wouldn't fix ;; mercy is wasted on the merciless.)

Reply to 1

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

-To: most

Moderate Muslims, like unicorns, elves and the tooth
fairy, are not endangered species, they never existed!

13 Posted on 9/30/2006 by backtothestreets

Reply to 1

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

-To: most

> "A moderate indeed"

Touche. I shot down my own (sarcastic) argument. Someone
who would rather live than die, or who hopes to live to
see the triumphant outcome of his cause, is not your
typical suicide bomber. Yeah, WHAT moderates?

I'll try again: a moderate Muslim is your local 7-11
manager or falafel shop owner who quietly cheered
discreetly with his fellow Muslims, as they watched
reruns of the collapse of the WTC towers.

):^(

14 Posted on 9/30/2006 by elcid1970

Reply to 11

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

-To: most

I'll take "things that a unicorn would be surprised to
see exists" for $400, Alex.

15 Posted on 9/30/2006 by thoughtomator
(Islam delenda est)

Reply to 1

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

End of forwarded messages from:
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1711353/posts

Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti

o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the educational
purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post may not
have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of the
poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption for
fair use of copyrighted works.
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== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 2 2010 7:56 pm
From: usenet@mantra.com and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)


The cutter must get the virgins and the foot-holder only "seconds".

Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti

In article <4b8dd207$0$12457$bbae4d71@news.suddenlink.net>,
"harmony" <aka@hotmail.com> posted:
>
> according to my break-away mommedan friend in houston who understands
> mummudism very well, a terrorist muslim is one who cuts throat of kafir
> while moderate muslim holds the feet of kafir down.

> "fanabba" <fanabba@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:bb637f7d-dde9-4461-82d9-4b026badce4e@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>
> > "Even a moderate Muslim who reads the Koran must read that the Jews
> > are the sons of apes and that the infidels must be killed"
>
> http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/02/even-a-moderate-muslim-who-reads-the-koran-must-read-that-the-jews-are-the-sons-of-apes-and-that-the.html
>


== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 2 2010 7:58 pm
From: usenet@mantra.com and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)


The mythical moderate Muslim

Forwarded message from "G.Subramaniam" <gsub...@comcast.net>

[ Subject: The mythical moderate muslim
[ From: "G.Subramaniam" <gsub...@comcast.net>
[ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004

The Mythical Moderate Muslim

By Yashiko Sagamori
Mar 17, '04 / 24 Adar 5764

Primitive tribes offer sacrifices hoping to mollify
whatever nonexistent beings they believe in. New York
Times columnist Paul Krugman seems to belong to a very
sophisticated tribe that, according to the recently
retired Malaysian Prime Minister, rules the world by
proxy. One would think Mr. Krugman should be above such
crude superstitions. Nevertheless, in his column on
October 21, he suggests that Secretary of Defense
Rumsfeld should fire General Boykin in order to mollify
moderate Muslims.

General Boykin, the leading anti-terror expert at the
Pentagon and a devout Christian, had openly and publicly,
on several occasions, expressed his personal opinion of
Islam, which happens to be rather low. Considering where
the terror is coming from, this is far less surprising
than Mr. Krugman's eagerness to sacrifice both General
Boykin and the First Amendment in order to mollify
moderate Muslims. I'd like to ask Mr. Krugman what gives
him reason to believe that the beings he is trying to
mollify actually exist.

The official, politically correct point of view says that
Islam is just another monotheistic religion, not that
different from Judaism or Christianity. If that is true,
then moderate Muslims must exist, just like moderate
members of other faiths. However, moderate members of
other faiths do not require sacrificial mollification -
that's basically how we tell moderates from extremists.
Therefore, either moderate Muslims are mythical
creatures, or we need substantially different criteria to
identify them. That dilemma alone should make us
suspicious as to whether Islam is "just another
religion". Obviously, it is important that we determine
how a moderate Muslim can be distinguished from a Muslim
extremist.

Why not ask Muslims themselves? Irshad Manji, a young
Canadian author, has published a book titled "The Trouble
With Islam." Since we don't hear too many Muslim voices
criticizing their religion, her book deserves our
attention. This is what the author herself says on her
promotional website (www.muslim-refusenik.com/...dex.html):
"I appreciate that every
faith has its share of literalists. Christians have their
Evangelicals. Jews have the ultra-Orthodox. For God's
sake, even Buddhists have fundamentalists. But what this
book hammers home is that only in Islam the literalism is
mainstream." Apparently, the terms "literalism" and
"fundamentalism" in the quotation above are used
interchangeably, as synonyms of religious extremism.
Unfortunately, the author fails to mention the most
important difference between "literalists" in Islam and
other religions. Evangelical Christians may believe that
heaven is reserved for them alone. Ultra-Orthodox Jews
may display intimate understanding of the murkiest places
in the Talmud. I have no idea what extreme fundamentalist
Buddhists do that sets them apart from their moderate
coreligionists. What I do know however is that no
religion except Islam pursues the idea of physical
extermination of those who believe differently. The
concept of holy war is unique to Islam. Jihad is the
absolute monopoly of Muslims. There is no parallel to it
in any other religion in the world (Yes, I have heard
about Crusades, but Christianity does not mandate them,
and do you know when the last Crusade ended?). So, here
we have it in plain English, as simple as A, B, C: A.
According to the Koran, holy war against the infidels is
a sacred duty of every Muslim. B. According to Ms. Manji,
mainstream Muslims interpret Koran literally. The
conclusion is inevitable: C. Mainstream Muslims perceive
war against the infidels - meaning you and me - as their
sacred duty. Once you understand that, you don't need
books to explain to you what exactly the trouble with
Islam is. The trouble with Islam derives from the fact
that mainstream Islam openly calls for murder of all
infidels. That's why Islam is not "just another
religion". That's what, in my view, allows to classify
all its followers as extremist. What then, besides our
stubborn, groundless faith in the general goodness of our
fellow human beings, leads us to believe that moderate
Muslims are not just a figment of our imagination? How do
they manifest themselves in the real world?

It would be utterly useless to look for them in Gaza,
Judea, or Samaria. Unlike bin Laden, terrorists occupying
Israeli lands do not live in caves. They live in small
towns, villages, and crowded refugee camps where everyone
knows everything about everyone else. They couldn't
survive for a day without popular support. When someone
gives them a reason to doubt the sincerity of his
support, they label him a collaborator and murder him on
the spot. Indeed, the PA-sponsored educational system
guarantees that innocent children are indoctrinated in
the most murderous variety of Islamic extremism - thereby
losing their innocence - at the earliest possible age.
Therefore, in Israel, a moderate Muslim is a dead Muslim,
which is bad news for those who want us to believe that
there is a peaceful solution to the continuing Arab war
against Israel.

Let's look elsewhere. Afghanistan, liberated by the
United States from the medieval tyranny of the Taliban is
about to publish the draft of its first constitution.
Their new constitution is going to be firmly based on
Islamic principles. The country itself is soon to be
renamed the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan. We wouldn't
call a Jew or a Christian who wanted his religion to
become the basis of his country's constitution a
moderate, would we? Here, in the United States, we value
the separation of church from state so much that we
launch court battles to remove the Ten Commandments and
every reference to God from everything that is even
remotely related to the government.

If Islam is "just another religion", shouldn't the same
criteria apply to Muslim countries? And if the same
criteria do apply, we have to conclude that President
Karzai installed in Afghanistan by the American military
and unable to survive now or in the foreseeable future
without the American military presence, is not a moderate
Muslim, but an outright religious extremist. His "Very
correct" remark to Mahadir's call for the extermination
of Jews shows that he is a political extremist as well.

Therefore, the only practical question regarding
Afghanistan is why did the United States have to waste
lives of its soldiers and tens of billions of dollars in
order to replace one bunch of Muslim extremists with
another? It might have been worthwhile had it improved
our security at home, but, as we know, that didn't
happen. Therefore, we have to conclude that the United
States has once again won a battle but lost the war. The
same will inevitably happen in Iraq. The desperate search
for moderate Muslims goes all around the world. It is
especially urgent in Europe, whose face is being
irreversibly altered by mass immigration from Islamic
countries.

Recently, the British government appealed to the growing
British Muslim community to isolate extremists in their
midst. It's not hard to predict the response. Actually,
there will be no response, because everyone in any Muslim
community is an extremist. Such is the nature of Islam,
and the only thing that I find hard to comprehend is the
self-imposed blindness of the British government.
Apparently, such is the price of liberalism and political
correctness. Bye-bye, Europe. We are next.

I don't think World War II could be won if the Allies,
instead of eradicating Nazism, attempted to replace Nazi
extremists with moderate Nazis. Actually, nobody was
looking for moderate Nazis during World War II. But those
were simpler, purer times.

Today, the mythical moderate Muslim remains the focal
point of the US foreign policy in the Middle East. The
blind faith in his existence has already led the United
States to many monumental failures, and many more are to
be expected in the future.

Meanwhile, the moderate Muslim, along with the Big Foot,
the unicorn, and the Loch Ness monster, remains more
elusive than a cure for cancer. There is at least a
theoretical possibility that a cure for cancer can be
found one day, unless of course Islam takes over and
drags us all down into its own endless Dark Ages.

www.israelnn.com/article.php3?id=3461

End of forwarded message from "G.Subramaniam" <gsub...@comcast.net>

Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti

o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the educational
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have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of the
poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption for
fair use of copyrighted works.
o If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read,
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o Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by others are
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FAIR USE NOTICE: This article may contain copyrighted material the use of
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that this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as
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