Sunday, March 21, 2010

rec.arts.movies.local.indian - 11 new messages in 4 topics - digest

rec.arts.movies.local.indian
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian?hl=en

rec.arts.movies.local.indian@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Every group has a troll and "alt.religion.islam" is no exception. - 4
messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/0538da13757e7be7?hl=en
* Dr Jai Maharaj is a sad Monkey - 4 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/54e137b93f3610de?hl=en
* UK RELIGIOUS SCHOOLS FORCED TO REJECT HATE - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/dcfc2e198d269895?hl=en
* DIVINE INTERVENTION - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/49395064702fcb4e?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Every group has a troll and "alt.religion.islam" is no exception.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/0538da13757e7be7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 19 2010 9:23 pm
From: "Firnando"


Every group has a troll and "alt.religion.islam" is no exception.

Our troll here is an individual who can easily detected by his indecent behavior which include sending massive messages to "alt.religion.islam" Forum, using nasty names and acting as ZIONIST BOOT LICKER BIGOT

In spite of that: He is misusing the policy of the internet service and abusing the participants by using their emails to flood the newsgroups with trash or cancel their messages!!

No matter how many times he get caught with his pants down he still manage to sneak online hiding behind stolen aliases

On the other hand; our troll now cancelling other posters messages in addition to sending out barrage spam intended to disrupt any discussion ....... he must be desperate!!

Furthermore, whenever this anti-Islam troll felt too happy, he always goes online to depress himself, he's tried 9 times to kill himself, for once I wish he'd get it right!


== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 20 2010 6:12 am
From: uNmaivirumbi


On Mar 20, 12:23 am, "Firnando" <geovani_the_ital...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Please answer this:

Can muslims answer:

1) Did Mohammad hear Koran directly from God? Did he say so? Is there
any evidence from the Koran it was directly from God? If not why do
you say it is from God?
2) Did Mohammad hear from an angel? Did Mohammad verify it was an
angel and how did he do that? If not why did he not do that and
claimed it was an angel? That too Jibreel?
3) was it not true that Khadija was the one who told him it could be
Jibreel and Mohammad did not think of that before?
4) How can God ask a 53 year old man to marry a six year old girl and
have sex with her at age 9? Did he masturbate on Ayesha even as a baby
as reported (thighing)?
5) Marrying a girl at age 9 is permitted in many Islamic countries by
law even in Saudi Arabia, is it not?
6) Does God allow a man to marry his adopted son's wife- Zainab?
7Does God allow a man to "marry" 17 year old Safiya Bint Huyay the
same night ( means sex) after murdering her husband, parents, brothers
in front of her? How old was Mohammad then? Why did Mohammad do all
this after Khadija died and never before?
8) Does God allow muslims as in Koran ( what the right hand possesses
also called ma malakat aymanukum in Koran), to capture nonmuslim women
and use them as sex slaves ( captured in war) - the real reason for
rape of nonmuslim women in many countries as this is okay as per Koran
9) Is it not true that Koran therefore is not from God at all? Could
never be? That it is satan's clever work hiding that as God's work?
Do you not think Koran is from the devil or a product of a crazed
psychopath who cooked up this?

Should you not abandon this cult and join civilized society and fight
for true dignity,progress peace and freedom?

Do you have to courage to face this and do what you have to do?

Can you really answer this or are you going to evade, abuse and curse
as usual?


== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 20 2010 11:47 am
From: "Kayed Al-Kuffar"


ARE YOU A HINDU?

If so, then: Have you ever really read the Vedas, Upanishads, Smritis and Puranas (Ramayana and Mahabharata)?

Your answer most probably will be: "No!"

The Hindu mentality is such, that it usually accepts anything without questioning its authenticity. The reason is that for several centuries the higher caste Brahmin has taught that the low caste indigenous Indian has no right to question any discrepancies in Hindu beliefs and mythology.

+Scientific errors in Vedas+

God's Revelation cannot contain scientific errors. There are uncountable errors in vedas, only few are mentioned here: as in the following quote from Hindu Scriptures of India.

This will show the Indian people unscientific Hindu Scriptures of Vedas

1-The moon is 50,000 leagues higher than the sun.
2- Moon shines by its own light.
3- night is caused by the sun's setting behind a huge mountain.
4- several thousand feet high, sun located in the centre of the earth.
5- that this world, flat and triangular.
6- world is composed of 7 states one of honey, another of sugar, a third of butter, and still another of wine,
7- the whole mass is borne on the heads of countless elephants, which in shaking produce earthquakes."

As you can see, there are at least seven clear scientific errors in this short passage of the Vedas.
ONLY ONE MISTAKE IS ENOUGH TO PROVE THAT VEDA IS NOT A BOOK OF GOD


== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 20 2010 12:37 pm
From: uNmaivirumbi


On Mar 20, 2:47 pm, "Kayed Al-Kuffar" <kayed...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ARE YOU A HINDU?

Please answer this:

Can muslims answer:

1) Did Mohammad hear Koran directly from God? Did he say so? Is there
any evidence from the Koran it was directly from God? If not why do
you say it is from God?
2) Did Mohammad hear from an angel? Did Mohammad verify it was an
angel and how did he do that? If not why did he not do that and
claimed it was an angel? That too Jibreel?
3) was it not true that Khadija was the one who told him it could be
Jibreel and Mohammad did not think of that before?
4) How can God ask a 53 year old man to marry a six year old girl and
have sex with her at age 9? Did he masturbate on Ayesha even as a baby
as reported (thighing)?
5) Marrying a girl at age 9 is permitted in many Islamic countries by
law even in Saudi Arabia, is it not?
6) Does God allow a man to marry his adopted son's wife- Zainab?
7Does God allow a man to "marry" 17 year old Safiya Bint Huyay the
same night ( means sex) after murdering her husband, parents, brothers
in front of her? How old was Mohammad then? Why did Mohammad do all
this after Khadija died and never before?
8) Does God allow muslims as in Koran ( what the right hand possesses
also called ma malakat aymanukum in Koran), to capture nonmuslim women
and use them as sex slaves ( captured in war) - the real reason for
rape of nonmuslim women in many countries as this is okay as per Koran
9) Is it not true that Koran therefore is not from God at all? Could
never be? That it is satan's clever work hiding that as God's work?
Do you not think Koran is from the devil or a product of a crazed
psychopath who cooked up this?

Should you not abandon this cult and join civilized society and fight
for true dignity,progress peace and freedom?

Do you have to courage to face this and do what you have to do?

Can you really answer this or are you going to evade, abuse and curse
as usual?


==============================================================================
TOPIC: Dr Jai Maharaj is a sad Monkey
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/54e137b93f3610de?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 20 2010 12:41 am
From: bademiyansubhanallah


Nadda resigns as HP minister to take up natl assignment
STAFF WRITER 15:59 HRS IST

Shimla, Mar 18 (PTI) Newly-appointed BJP general secretary Jagat
Prakash Nadda today resigned as cabinet minister in Himachal Pradesh
to take up his new assignment at the national level.

Nadda met Chief Minister Prem Kumar Dhumal in assembly and submitted
his resignation which was accepted.

"Yes I have submitted by resignation to the chief minister," Nadda
told PTI.

"I have asked him (Nadda) to continue till the ongoing budget session
of the assembly," Dhumal said.

Nadda in his letter to the CM said that since he has been appointed as
national general secretary of the BJP he was resigning from HP cabinet
in accordance with the party's policy of 'one man one post'.

http://www.ptinews.com/news/570541_Nadda-resigns-as-HP-minister-to-take-up-natl-assignment

JP Nadda resigns as Himachal cabinet minister
Posted by Ravinder Makhaik on Mar 18th, 2010

Shimla: Forest minister Jagat Prakash Nadda on being appointed as BJP
general secretary today submitted his resignation as a cabinet
minister in the Prem Kumar Dhumal ministry to take up his new
assignment at the national level.

Nadda met Dhumal in assembly today and submitted his resignation which
has been accepted.

"I have submitted by resignation to the chief minister," Nadda
confirmed to My Himachal News.

"I have asked the forest minister to continue till the ongoing budget
session," said the chief minister.

Nadda in his letter to the CM cited that since he had been appointed
national general secretary of party he was resigning from HP cabinet
in accordance with the party's declared policy of 'one man one post'.

http://himachal.us/2010/03/18/jp-nadda-resigns-as-himachal-cabinet-minister/19150/news/ravinder

Day curfew lifted in Bareilly
STAFF WRITER 12:37 HRS IST

Bareilly, Mar 20 (PTI) With the situation improving in riot-hit areas,
day curfew has been lifted in the city.

"The situation is completely normal and day curfew in five police
areas - Prem Nagar, Qila, Baradari, Kotwali and Subhash Nagar - has
been lifted between 5 am to 10 pm," officials said.

The situation had become a bit tense yesterday after six statues were
allegedly stolen from the ancient Jagganath Puri temple in Bada Bazar
area.

Protesting against the theft, members of a community blocked road,
which was later lifted on the assurance that the guilty would be
arrested soon.

Curfew was clamped in four of the six police areas of the city on
March 2 in the wake of communal clashes over a barawafat procession.It
was later extended to one more police area after fresh violence on
March 11.

http://www.ptinews.com/news/573674_Day-curfew-lifted-in-Bareilly

BJP demands Raj Home Minister's resignation
STAFF WRITER 23:7 HRS IST

Jaipur, Mar 19 (PTI) Holding statewide protests, BJP today demanded
the resignation of Rajasthan Home Minister Shanti Dhariwal, alleging
he had threatened its MLAs in the legislative assembly.

"Besides Dhariwal's resignation, the Congress government should revoke
the suspension of two MLAs -- R S Rathore (whip) and Hanuman Beniwal
-- who were suspended in previous two sittings of the House," Arun
Chaturvedi, its state president, told a press conference here.

The Leader of the House and Chief Minister Ashok Gehlot has not been
present in the House for the last two days and should attempt to break
the deadlock, Chaturvedi said.

"If this is not done on March 22, the BJP will hold 'Jail Bharo' in
all district headquarters," he said.

Meanwhile, BJP general secretary Vasundhara Raje alleged the state
government's repressive tactics in the assembly were a reminder of the
British period.

http://www.ptinews.com/news/573450_BJP-demands-Raj-Home-Minister-s-resignation

Praveen Togadia held for trying to walk into Kandhamal
STAFF WRITER 0:22 HRS IST

Bhubaneswar, Mar 19 (PTI) Firebrand VHP leader Praveen Togadia was
tonight arrested alongwith his supporters by the Orissa Police as they
tried to enter riot-hit Kandhamal district, defying a ban on their
visit.

Togadia, who arrived at Charichowk in Boudh district, neighbouring
Kandhamal, was held under Section 151 of the CrPc when they tried to
walk into Kandhamal district despite a ban, police said.

After they were asked not to proceed to the district, they initially
held a sit-in protest at Charichowk.

The VHP leader is now lodged at the forest inspection bungalow at
Charichowk, Lambodar Buda, Inspector-in-charge of Boudh police
station, said.

http://www.ptinews.com/news/573518_Praveen-Togadia-held-for-trying-to-walk-into-Kandhamal

Togadia released by Orissa Police
STAFF WRITER 12:11 HRS IST

Phulbani (Orissa), Mar 20 (PTI) Fireband VHP leader Praveen Togadia,
who was arrested while trying to enter riot-hit Kandhamal district
despite prohibitory orders, was today released by Orissa Police.

"Togadia was released on a bond and he left for Bhanjanagar in Ganjam
district," Kandhamal SP Pravin Kumar said.

The VHP leader was arrested last night under Section 151 of the CrPC
when he tried to walk into Kandhamal, along with supporters.

Earlier the state government had put a ban on Togadia's visit in view
of the communally-fragile nature of the district, which had seen
largescale communal violence in the wake of killing of VHP leader
Lakhsmananda Saraswati in August 2008.

Meanwhile, the district VHP unit of Kandhamal organised a 12-hour
bandh protesting Togadia's arrest.

While all shops and business establishments were closed, educational
institutions and government offices functioned as usual, police said.

http://www.ptinews.com/news/573641_Togadia-released-by-Orissa-Police

Shahnawaz not to attend BJP spokespersons' meet
STAFF WRITER 14:12 HRS IST

New Delhi, Mar 19 (PTI) BJP leader Shahnawaz Hussain, who is
reportedly sulking after he was overlooked for the post of general
secretary by party president Nitin Gadkari, is likely to keep away
from a meeting of new spokespersons convened today by Leader of
Opposition Sushma Swaraj.

Swaraj is holding a meeting of the seven BJP spokespersons to decide
allocation of work and brief them about their new job.

Sources said the meeting was being held at the behest of Chief
Spokesperson Ravi Shankar Prasad who is keen on getting his new team
cracking without any delay.

Sources close to Hussain said he is likely to keep away from the
meeting but insisted that this is due to his ill-health.

"He is a disciplined soldier of the party and will go with whatever
the party decides.

http://www.ptinews.com/news/572096_Shahnawaz-not-to-attend-BJP-spokespersons--meet

Dissent in BJP over Gadkari\'s new team – IBNLive.com
Published by admin on March 19, 2010 filed under Asian News
Headlines · Comments (0) The Hindu Dissent in BJP over Gadkari's
new team IBNLive.com BJP's latest worries- party President Nitin
Gadkari's honeymoon period is over. His first challange will be Bihar-
and state party leaders anger might cost the party dearly as Bihar
will be going to polls later this year. Shatrughan Sinha and CP Thakur
… Everyone can't be satisfied: Gadkari about dissent over his team
Economic Times Shatrughan vents ire at not being included in Nitin
Gadkari's team Daily News & Analysis Dissent in BJP over Gadkari's new
team India Today NDTV.com

http://asia.getsomenews.com/2010/03/19/dissent-in-bjp-over-gadkaris-new-team-ibnlive-com/

Raise complaints with me, not media: Gadkari
on March 19th, 2010

Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) president Nitin Gadkari Friday asked
party leaders to raise any complaints about his choice of a new team
with him and not with the media.


"Those who have complaints about the new team should speak to me, not
the media," Gadkari told the NDTV news channel, a day after actor-
turned-party MP Shatrughan Sinha's remarks on the composition of the
new team of office-bearers announced Tuesday.

Sinha Thursday recited the lyrics of an old Hindi film song in answer
to a question about the new team. "Uff na karenge, lab see lenge,
aansu pee lenge (I will not sigh, will seal my lips and swallow my
tears)," he said, expressing disappointment that leaders like Yashwant
Sinha had been left out and the team had not been able to give a
message of dynamism.

"It's wrong to say that Yashwant Sinha and Arun Shourie were excluded
because they are Advani detractors… It's not possible to include
everyone on the team," Gadkari said.

The BJP president also justified the appointment of Nehru-Gandhi
family member Varun Gandhi as party secretary, saying: "Varun Gandhi
should be given a chance, why hold the past against him?"

The party had sought to distance itself from Varun Gandhi after he
allegedly made inflammatory remarks during the Lok Sabha election
campaign last year.

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http://way2online.com/?p=33533
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http://way2online.com/?p=31483
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http://way2online.com/?p=28794
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http://way2online.com/?p=26321
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Aryan race
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not to be confused with "Arianism" which was an early non-trinitarian
form of Christianity.

This article is about the racial theory. For the full range of
meanings of "Aryan", see Aryan. For Hindu, Buddhist, Zoroastrian and
Jain spiritual interpretations, see Arya. For other uses, see Aryan
(disambiguation).
The Aryan race is a concept historically influential in European
culture in the period of the late 19th century and early 20th century.
It derives from the idea that the original speakers of the Indo-
European languages and their descendants up to the present day
constitute a distinctive race or subrace of the larger Caucasian race.
[1]

While originally meant simply as a neutral ethnic classification, it
was later used for political racism in Nazi and neo-Nazi ideological
form. It became a concept of scientific racism, and hence also in
other currents such as occultism and white supremacism.

Belief in the existence of an Aryan race is sometimes referred to as
Aryanism.

Origin of the term

Main article: Aryan
See also: Arya

The earliest epigraphically-attested reference to the word arya occurs
in the 6th century Behistun inscription, which describes itself to
have been composed "in arya [language or script]" (§ 70). As is also
the case for all other Old Iranian language usage, the arya of the
inscription does not signify anything but "Iranian".[2]
The region Aria as depicted by Waldseemuller in 1507The term Aryan
originates from the Sanskrit word arya, attested in the ancient texts
of Hinduism such as the Rigveda. Arya in Sanskrit holds the meaning
civilized or simply referring to an individual of higher
consciousness.

In the 18th century, the most ancient known Indo-European languages
were those of the Indo-Iranians' ancestors. The word Aryan was adopted
to refer not only to the Indo-Iranian people, but also to native Indo-
European speakers as a whole, including the Albanians, Kurds,
Armenians, Greeks, Latins, and Germans. It was soon recognised that
Balts, Celts, and Slavs also belonged to the same group. It was argued
that all of these languages originated from a common root—now known as
Proto-Indo-European—spoken by an ancient people who must have been the
original ancestors of the European, Iranian, and Indo-Aryan peoples.
The ethnic group composed of the Proto-Indo-Europeans and their modern
descendants was termed the Aryans.

This usage was common in the late 19th and early 20th century. An
example of an influential best-selling book that reflects this usage
is the 1920 book The Outline of History by H. G. Wells.[3] In it he
wrote of the accomplishments of the Aryan people, stating how they
"learned methods of civilization" while "Sargon II and Sardanapalus
were ruling in Assyria and fighting with Babylonia and Syria and
Egypt". As such, Wells suggested that the Aryans had eventually
"subjugated the whole ancient world, Semitic, Aegean and Egyptian
alike".[4] In the 1944 edition of Rand McNally's World Atlas, the
Aryan race is depicted as being one of the ten major racial groupings
of mankind.[5] The science fiction author Poul Anderson (1926–2001),
an anti-racist Libertarian of Scandinavian ancestry, in his many
novels, novellas, and short stories, consistently used the term Aryan
as a synonym for Indo-Europeans. He spoke of the Aryan bird of prey
which impelled those of the Aryan race to take the lead in developing
interstellar travel, colonize habitable planets in other planetary
systems and become leading business entrepreneurs on the newly
colonized planets.[6]

The use of "Aryan" as a synonym for "Indo-European" or to a lesser
extent for "Indo-Iranian", is regarded today by many as obsolete and
politically incorrect, but may still occasionally appear in material
based on older scholarship, or written by persons accustomed to older
usage, such as in a 1989 article in Scientific American by Colin
Renfrew in which he uses the word "Aryan" in its traditional meaning
as a synonym for "Indo-European".[7]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanskrit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arya

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigveda

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_languages

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Iranian_peoples

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_language

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_American

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Renfrew

19th-century physical anthropology

Main article: Caucasian race
See also: scientific racism

The 4th edition of Meyers Konversationslexikon (Leipzig, 1885-1890)
shows the Caucasian race (in blue) as comprising Aryans, Semites and
Hamites. Aryans are further subdivided into European Aryans and Indo-
Aryans (the latter corresponding to the group now designated Indo-
Iranians).In 19th century physical anthropology, represented by some
as being scientific racism, the "Aryan race" was considered a subgroup
of the Caucasian (or Europid) race, essentially corresponding to the
speakers of Indo-European languages native to Europe, Persia and the
Indo-Gangetic plain in South Asia.

The original 19th-century and early 20th-century use of the term Aryan
referred to "the early speakers of Proto-Indo European and their
descendents".[8][9] Max Müller is often identified as the first writer
to speak of an Aryan "race" in English. In his Lectures on the Science
of Language in 1861[10] he referred to Aryans as a "race of people".
At the time, the term race had the meaning of "a group of tribes or
peoples, an ethnic group".[11]

When Müller's statement was interpreted to imply a biologically
distinct sub-group of humanity, he soon clarified that he simply meant
a line of descent, insisting that it was very dangerous to mix
linguistics and anthropology. "The Science of Language and the Science
of Man cannot be kept too much asunder ... I must repeat what I have
said many times before, it would be wrong to speak of Aryan blood as
of dolichocephalic grammar".[12] He restated his opposition to this
method in 1888 in his essay Biographies of words and the home of the
Aryas.[10]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_M%C3%BCller

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cephalic_index

Müller was responding to the development of racial anthropology, and
the influence of the work of Arthur de Gobineau who argued that the
Indo-Europeans represented a superior branch of humanity. A number of
later writers, such as the French anthropologist Vacher de Lapouge in
his book L'Aryen, argued that this superior branch could be identified
biologically by using the cephalic index (a measure of head shape) and
other indicators. He argued that the long-headed "dolichocephalic-
blond" Europeans, characteristically found in northern Europe, were
natural leaders, destined to rule over more "brachiocephalic" (short
headed) peoples.[13].
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_de_Gobineau

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacher_de_Lapouge

The division of the Caucasian race into Aryans, Semites and Hamites is
in origin linguistic, not based on physical anthropology, the division
in physical anthropology being that into Nordic, Alpine and
Mediterranean. However, the linguistic classification of "Aryan"
became closely associated, and conflated, with the classification of
"Nordic".

This claim became increasingly important during the 19th century. In
the mid-19th century, it was commonly believed that the Aryans
originated in the southwestern steppes of present-day Russia. However,
by the late 19th century the steppe theory of Aryan origins was
challenged by the view that the Aryans originated in ancient Germany
or Scandinavia, or at least that in those countries the original Aryan
ethnicity had been preserved. The German origin of the Aryans was
especially promoted by the archaeologist Gustaf Kossinna, who claimed
that the Proto-Indo-European peoples were identical to the Corded Ware
culture of Neolithic Germany. This idea was widely circulated in both
intellectual and popular culture by the early twentieth century,[14]
and is reflected in the concept of "Corded-Nordics" in Carleton S.
Coon's 1939 The Races of Europe.

Other anthropologists contested such claims. In Germany, Rudolf
Virchow launched a study of craniometry, which prompted him to
denounce "Nordic mysticism" in the 1885 Anthropology Congress in
Karlsruhe, while Josef Kollmann, a collaborator of Virchow, stated in
the same congress that the people of Europe, be they English, German,
French, and Spaniard belonged to a "mixture of various races,"
furthermore declaring that the "results of craniology...[are] against
any theory concerning the superiority of this or that European race"
to others.[10]

Virchow's contribution to the debate sparked a controversy. Houston
Stewart Chamberlain, a strong supporter of the theory of a superior
Aryan race, attacked Josef Kollmann arguments in detail. While the
"Aryan race" theory remained popular, particularly in Germany, some
authors defended Virchow's perspective, in particular Otto Schrader,
Rudolph von Jhering and the ethnologist Robert Hartmann (1831–1893),
who proposed to ban the notion of "Aryan" from anthropology.[10]

Indo-Aryan migration

Main article: Indo-Aryan migration
See also: Out of India theory

Models of the Indo-Aryan migration discuss scenarios of prehistoric
migrations of the early Indo-Aryans to their historically attested
areas of settlement in the northwest of the Indian subcontinent and
from there further across all of North India. Claims of Indo-Aryan
migration are primarily drawn from linguistic[15] evidence but also
from a multitude of data stemming from genetics,[16] Vedic religion,
rituals, poetics as well as some aspects of social organization and
chariot technology.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_language

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedic_period

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedas

All discussion of historical Indo-Aryan migrations or Aryan and
Dravidian races remains highly controversial in India to this day, and
continues to affect political and religious debate. Some Dravidians,
and supporters of the Dalit movement, most commonly Tamils, claim that
the worship of Shiva is a distinct Dravidian religion going back to
the Indus Civilization,[17] to be distinguished from Brahminical
"Aryan" Hinduism. In contrast, the Indian nationalist Hindutva
movement argues that no Aryan invasion or migration ever occurred,
asserting that Vedic beliefs emerged from the Indus Valley
Civilisation,[18] which pre-dated the supposed advent of the Indo-
Aryans in India, and is identified as a likely candidate for a Proto-
Dravidian culture.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dravidian

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalitstan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamil_people

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiva

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indus_Valley_Civilization

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindutva

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indus_Valley_Civilisation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Dravidian

Some Indians were also influenced by the debate about the Aryan race
during the British Raj. The Indian nationalist V. D. Savarkar believed
in the theory that an "Aryan race" migrated to India,[19] but he
didn't find much value in a racialized interpretation of the "Aryan
race".[20] Some Indian nationalists supported the British version of
the theory because it gave them the prestige of common descent with
the ruling British class.[21]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V._D._Savarkar

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racialized

Genetic studies

A genetic study in the year 2000 in Andhra Pradesh state of India
found that the upper caste Hindus were closer relatives to Eastern-
Europeans than to Hindus from lower castes.[22] However, a study
conducted by the Centre for Cellular and Molecular Biology in 2009 (in
collaboration with Harvard Medical School, Harvard School of Public
Health and the Broad Institute of Harvard and MIT) analyzed half a
million genetic markers across the genomes of 132 individuals from 25
ethnic groups from 13 states in India across multiple caste groups.
[23] The study asserts, based on the impossibility of identifying any
genetic indicators across caste lines, that castes in South Asia grew
out of traditional tribal organizations during the formation of Indian
society, and was not the product of any Aryan invasion and
"subjugation" of Dravidian people.[24]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centre_for_Cellular_and_Molecular_Biology

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvard_Medical_School

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvard_School_of_Public_Health


Occultism

Theosophy

Mme. Blavatsky and Henry Steel Olcott, a lawyer, agricultural expert,
and journalist who covered the Spiritualist phenomena.Main article:
Root race
These debates were addressed within the Theosophical movement founded
by Helena Blavatsky and Henry Olcott at the end of the nineteenth
century. This philosophy took inspiration from Indian culture, in this
case, perhaps, from the Hindu reform movement the Arya Samaj founded
by Swami Dayananda.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theosophy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madame_Blavatsky

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Steel_Olcott

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arya_Samaj

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Dayananda

Blavatsky argued that humanity had descended from a series of "Root
Races", naming the fifth root race (out of seven) the Aryan Race. She
thought that the Aryans originally came from Atlantis and described
the Aryan races with the following words:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_Race

"The Aryan races, for instance, now varying from dark brown, almost
black, red-brown-yellow, down to the whitest creamy colour, are yet
all of one and the same stock -- the Fifth Root-Race -- and spring
from one single progenitor, (...) who is said to have lived over
18,000,000 years ago, and also 850,000 years ago -- at the time of the
sinking of the last remnants of the great continent of Atlantis."[25]
Blavatsky used "Root Race" as a technical term to describe human
evolution over the large time periods in her cosmology. However, she
also claimed that there were modern non-Aryan peoples who were
inferior to Aryans. She regularly contrasts "Aryan" with "Semitic"
culture, to the detriment of the latter, asserting that Semitic
peoples are an offshoot of Aryans who have become "degenerate in
spirituality and perfected in materiality."[26] She also states that
some peoples are "semi-animal creatures". These latter include "the
Tasmanians, a portion of the Australians and a mountain tribe in
China." There are also "considerable numbers of the mixed Lemuro-
Atlantean peoples produced by various crossings with such semi-human
stocks -- e.g., the wild men of Borneo, the Veddhas of Ceylon, classed
by Prof. Flower among Aryans (!), most of the remaining Australians,
Bushmen, Negritos, Andaman Islanders, etc."[27]

Despite this, Blavatsky's admirers claim that her thinking was not
connected to fascist or racialist ideas, asserting that she believed
in a Universal Brotherhood of humanity and wrote that "all men have
spiritually and physically the same origin" and that "mankind is
essentially of one and the same essence".[28] On the other hand, in
The Secret Doctrine, Blavatsky states: "Verily mankind is 'of one
blood,' but not of the same essence."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Brotherhood

Blavatsky connects physical race with spiritual attributes constantly
throughout her works:

"Esoteric history teaches that idols and their worship died out with
the Fourth Race, until the survivors of the hybrid races of the latter
(Chinamen, African Negroes, &c.) gradually brought the worship back.
The Vedas countenance no idols; all the modern Hindu writings do".
[29]
"The intellectual difference between the Aryan and other civilized
nations and such savages as the South Sea Islanders, is inexplicable
on any other grounds. No amount of culture, nor generations of
training amid civilization, could raise such human specimens as the
Bushmen, the Veddhas of Ceylon, and some African tribes, to the same
intellectual level as the Aryans, the Semites, and the Turanians so
called. The 'sacred spark' is missing in them and it is they who are
the only inferior races on the globe, now happily -- owing to the wise
adjustment of nature which ever works in that direction -- fast dying
out. Verily mankind is 'of one blood,' but not of the same essence. We
are the hot-house, artificially quickened plants in nature, having in
us a spark, which in them is latent".[30]
According to Blavatsky, "the MONADS of the lowest specimens of
humanity (the "narrow-brained" savage South-Sea Islander, the African,
the Australian) had no Karma to work out when first born as men, as
their more favoured brethren in intelligence had".[31]

She also prophecies of the destruction of the racial "failures of
nature" as the future "higher race" ascends:

"Thus will mankind, race after race, perform its appointed cycle-
pilgrimage. Climates will, and have already begun, to change, each
tropical year after the other dropping one sub-race, but only to beget
another higher race on the ascending cycle; while a series of other
less favoured groups -- the failures of nature -- will, like some
individual men, vanish from the human family without even leaving a
trace behind".[32]
It is interesting to note that the second subrace of the Fifth or
Aryan root race, the Arabian, is regarded by Theosophists as one of
the Aryan subraces. It is believed by Theosophists that the Arabians,
although asserted in traditional Theosophy to be of Aryan (i.e., Indo-
European) ancestry, adopted the Semitic language of the people around
them who had migrated earlier from Atlantis (the fifth or (original)
Semite subrace of the Atlantean root race). Theosophists assert that
the Jews originated as an offshoot of the Arabian subrace in what is
now Yemen about 30,000 BC. They migrated first to Somalia and then
later to Egypt where they lived until the time of Moses. Thus,
according to the teachings of Theosophy, the Jews are part of the
Aryan race.[33]

Ariosophy

Main article: Ariosophy

Guido von List (and his followers such as Lanz von Liebenfels) later
took up some of Blavatsky's ideas, mixing her ideology with
nationalistic and fascist ideas; this system of thought became known
as Ariosophy. It was believed in Ariosophy that the Teutonics were
superior to all other peoples because according to Theosophy the
Teutonics or Nordics were the most recent subrace of the Aryan root
race to have evolved.[34] Such views also fed into the development of
Nazi ideology. Theosophical publications such as The Aryan Path were
strongly opposed to the Nazi usage, attacking racialism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guido_von_List

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanz_von_Liebenfels

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariosophy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_languages

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Aryan_Path

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racialism

The idea of the Northern origins of the Aryans was particularly
influential in Germany. It was widely believed that the "Vedic Aryans"
were ethnically identical to the Goths, Vandals and other ancient
Germanic peoples of the Völkerwanderung. This idea was often
intertwined with anti-Semitic ideas. The distinctions between the
"Aryan" and "Semitic" peoples were based on the aforementioned
linguistic and ethnic history.

Semitic peoples came to be seen as a foreign presence within Aryan
societies, and the Semitic peoples were often pointed to as the cause
of conversion and destruction of social order and values leading to
culture and civilization's downfall by proto-Nazi and Nazi theorists
such as Houston Stewart Chamberlain and Alfred Rosenberg.

According to the adherents to Ariosophy, the Aryan was a "master race"
that built a civilization that dominated the world from Atlantis about
ten thousand years ago. This alleged civilization declined when other
parts of the world were colonized after the 8,000 BC destruction of
Atlantis because the inferior races mixed with the Aryans but it left
traces of their civilization in Tibet (via Buddhism), and even in
Central America, South America, and Ancient Egypt. (The date of 8,000
BC for the destruction of Atlantis in Ariosophy is 2,000 years later
than the date of 10,000 BC given for this event in Theosophy.) These
theories affected the more esotericist strand of Nazism.

A complete, highly speculative theory of Aryan and anti-Semitic
history can be found in Alfred Rosenberg's major work, The Myth of the
Twentieth Century. Rosenberg's well-researched account of ancient
history, melded with his racial speculations, proved to be very
effective in spreading racialism among German intellectuals in the
early twentieth century, especially after the First World War.

These and other ideas evolved into the Nazi use of the term "Aryan
race" to refer to what they saw as being a master race of people of
northern European descent. They worked to maintain the purity of this
race through eugenics programs (including anti-miscegenation
legislation, compulsory sterilization of the mentally ill and the
mentally deficient, the execution of the institutionalized mentally
ill as part of a euthanasia program).

Heinrich Himmler (the Reichsführer of the SS), the person ordered by
Adolf Hitler to implement the final solution (Holocaust), told his
personal masseur Felix Kersten that he always carried with him a copy
of the ancient Aryan scripture, the Bhagavad Gita because it relieved
him of guilt about what he was doing — he felt that like the warrior
Arjuna, he was simply doing his duty without attachment to his actions.
[35]

Himmler was also interested in Buddhism and his institute Ahnenerbe
sought to mix some traditions from Hinduism and Buddhism.[36] Himmler
sent a 1939 German expedition to Tibet as part of his research into
Aryan origins.

Neo-Nazism

The Sun wheel is used as the symbol of the Aryan raceSince the
military defeat of Nazi Germany by the Allies in 1945, some neo-Nazis
have expanded their concept of the Aryan race, moving from the Nazi
concept that the purest Aryans were the Teutonics or Nordics of
Northern Europe to the idea that the true Aryans are everyone
descended from the Western or European branch of the Indo-European
peoples.[citation needed] "Moderate" "white nationalists" who embrace
what is called pan-Aryanism want to establish a democratically
governed Aryan Federation.[37] On the other hand, according to
Nicholas Goodrick-Clark, many neo-Nazis want to establish an
autocratic state modeled after Nazi Germany to be called the Western
Imperium.[38]

This proposed state would be led by a Führer-like figure called the
Vindex, and would include all areas inhabited by the Aryan race
(defined as non-Jews of European ancestry), i.e. Europe (includes all
of Russia), Anglo-America, South Africa (may include Rhodesia (now
called Zimbabwe)) with its white minority, Australia, New Zealand, and
southern South America (that is Chile, Argentina, eastern Bolivia,
southern Brazil, Uruguay, and possibly Paraguay.) Only those of the
Aryan race would be full citizens of the state. The Western Imperium
would embark on a vigorous and dynamic program of space exploration.
The concept of the Western Imperium as outlined in the previous three
sentences is based on the original concept of the Imperium as outlined
in the 1947 book Imperium: The Philosophy of History and Politics by
Francis Parker Yockey as further updated, extended and refined in the
early 1990s in pamphlets published by David Myatt. [39][40][41]

Various concepts of Aryanism and how they should be implemented are
debated on the Stormfront website.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Parker_Yockey

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Myatt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stormfront_(website)

Tempelhofgesellschaft

A neo-Nazi esoteric Nazi Gnostic sect headquartered in Vienna, Austria
called the Tempelhofgesellschaft, founded in the early 1990s, teaches
a form of what it calls Marcionism. They distribute pamphlets claiming
that the Aryan race originally came to Atlantis from the star
Aldebaran.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Nazi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esoteric_Nazism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnostic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-volkisch_movements#Tempelhofgesellschaft_.28Gnostic_sect.29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcionism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_race#The_civilization_of_Atlantis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldebaran

See also

Anatolian hypothesis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatolian_hypothesis
Aryan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan
Germanic peoples
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_peoples
Indo-Aryan
migrations
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Aryan_migrations
Nordic theory
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_theory
Nordic race
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_race
Proto-Indo-Europeans

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-Europeans
Indo-European
language family
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_language_family
Kurgan hypothesis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurgan_hypothesis
Race Life of the Aryan Peoples
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_Life_of_the_Aryan_Peoples
Scandinavism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavism
White nationalism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_nationalism
White supremacy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_supremacy

Philosophical:

Esotericism in Germany and Austria
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esotericism_in_Germany_and_Austria
Thule Society
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thule_Society
Germanic Neopaganism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_Neopaganism
Neo-völkisch
movements
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-v%C3%B6lkisch_movements

Third Reich specific:

Aryanization
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryanization
Aryan paragraph
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_paragraph
Honorary Aryan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honorary_Aryan
Ahnenpass
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahnenpass
Aryan Games
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_Games

Contemporaneous concepts of race:

Alpine race
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpine_race
Armenoid race
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenoid_race
Dinaric race
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinaric_race
East Baltic race
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Baltic_race
Iranid race
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranid_race
Mediterranean race
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_race

References

Constructs such as ibid., op. cit. and loc. cit. are discouraged by
Wikipedia's style guide for footnotes as they are easily broken.
Please improve this article by replacing them with named references
(quick guide), or an abbreviated title.

^ Mish, Frederic C., Editor in Chief Webster's Tenth New Collegiate
Dictionary Springfield, Massachusetts, U.S.A.:1994--Merriam-Webster
See original definition (definition #1) of "Aryan" in English--Page
66
^ cf. Gershevitch, Ilya (1968), "Old Iranian Literature", Handbuch der
Orientalistik, Literatur I, Leiden: Brill, pp. 1–31 , p. 2.
^ Wells, H.G. The Outline of History New York:1920 Doubleday & Co.
Chapter 19 The Aryan Speaking Peoples in Pre-Historic Times Pages
271-285
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Outline_of_History
^ H.G. Wells describes the origin of the Aryans (Proto-Indo
Europeans):
http://www.bartleby.com/86/19.html
^ Rand McNally's World Atlas International Edition Chicago:1944 Rand
McNally Map: "Races of Mankind" Pages 278–279--In the explanatory
section below the map, the Aryan race (the word "Aryan" being defined
in the description below the map as a synonym for "Indo-Europeans") is
described as being one of the ten major racial groupings of mankind.
Each of the ten racial groupings is depicted in a different color on
the map and the estimated populations in 1944 of the larger racial
groups except the Dravidians are given (the Dravidian population in
1944 would have been about 70,000,000). The other nine groups are
depicted as being the Semitic race (the Aryans (850,000,000) and the
Semites (70,000,000) are described as being the two main branches of
the Caucasian race), the Dravidian race, the Mongolian race
(700,000,000), the Malayan race (Correct population given on page
413--64,000,000 including half of the Malay States, Micronesia, and
Polynesia), the American Indian race (10,000,000), the Negro race
(140,000,000), the Native Australians, the Papuans, and the Hottentots
and Bushmen.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dravidian_race

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongoloid_race

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malayan_race

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_people_of_the_Americas

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australoid_race

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australoid_race

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capoid_race

^ See, for example, the Poul Anderson short stories in the 1964
collection Time and Stars and the Polesotechnic League stories
featuring Nicholas van Rijn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_and_Stars

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_van_Rijn
^ Renfrew, Colin. (1989). The Origins of Indo-European Languages. /
Scientific American/, 261(4), 82-90.
^ Mish, Frederic C., Editor in Chief Webster's Tenth New Collegiate
Dictionary Springfield, Massachuetts, U.S.A.:1994--Merriam-Webster
Page 66
^ Widney, Joseph P Race Life of the Aryan Peoples New York: Funk &
Wagnalls. 1907 In Two Volumes: Volume One--The Old World Volume Two--
The New World ISBN B000859S6O
http://books.google.com/books?id=s9UKAAAAIAAJ&printsec=titlepage#v=onepage&q=&f=false

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Pomeroy_Widney
^ a b c d Andrea Orsucci, "Ariani, indogermani, stirpi mediterranee:
aspetti del dibattito sulle razze europee (1870-1914)", in Cromohs,
1998 (Italian)
http://www.cromohs.unifi.it/3_98/orsucci.html
^ OED under race, n.6 I.1.c has "A group of several tribes or peoples,
regarded as forming a distinct ethnic set. Esp. used in 19th-cent.
anthropological classification, sometimes in conjunction with
linguistic groupings."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OED
^ Speech before the University of Stassbourg, 1872, Chaudhuri, Nirad,
Scholar Extraordinary: The Life of Professor the Rt. Hon. Freidrich
Max Muller, Chatto and Windus, 1974, p.313
^ Vacher de Lapouge (trans Clossen, C), Georges (1899). "Old and New
Aspects of the Aryan Question". The American Journal of Sociology 5
(3): 329–346. .
^ Arvidsson, Stefan (2006). Aryan Idols. USA: University of Chicago
Press, 143. ISBN 0-226-02860-7.
^ The Quest for the Origins of Vedic Culture: The Indo-Aryan Migration
Debate, Edwin Bryant, 2001
^ Trivedi, Bijal P (2001-05-14). [http://www.genomenewsnetwork.org/
articles/05_01/Indo-European.shtml
"Genetic evidence suggests European
migrants may have influenced the origins of India's caste system"].
Genome News Network (J. Craig Venter Institute).
http://www.genomenewsnetwork.org/articles/05_01/Indo-European.shtml.
Retrieved 2005-01-27.
^ It is claimed that the Pashupati seal represents Shiva. J. Marshall
1931: Vol. 1, 52-55. Mohenjo-Daro and the IVC. London: Arthur
Probsthain.
^ Although most pro-Aryan migration theory scholars also agree that a
part of the IVC culture has influenced Hinduism. Renfrew says: "it is
difficult to see what is particularly non-Aryan about the Indus Valley
Civilization. Renfrew 1988:188-190. Archaeology and Language. New
York: Cambridge University Press
^ Bryant 2001:271, Talageri 2000. The Rigveda.
^ After all there is throughout this world so far as man is concerned
but a single race - the human race, kept alive by one common blood,
the human blood. All other talk is at best provisional, a makeshift
and only relatively true. (...) Even as it is, not even the aborigines
of the Andamans are without some sprinkling of the so-called Aryan
blood in their veins and vice-versa. Truly speaking all that one can
claim is that one has the blood of all mankind in one's veins. The
fundamental unity of man from pole to pole is true, all else only
relatively so. Savarkar: "Hindutva". Vinayak Damodar Savarkar,
Savarkar Samagra: Complete Works of Vinayak Damodar Savarkar in 10
volumes, ISBN 81-7315-331-0
^ Erdosy 1995:21, The Indo-Aryans of ancient South Asia.
^ http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=11381027
^ Indians are one people descended from two tribes
http://www.dnaindia.com/scitech/report_indians-are-one-people-descended-from-two-tribes_1292864
^ Aryan-Dravidian divide a myth: Study, Times of India
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news/india/Aryan-Dravidian-divide-a-myth-Study/articleshow/5053274.cms
^ The Secret Doctrine, the Synthesis of Science, Religion and
Philosophy, Vol.II, p.249
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_Doctrine
^ Ibid., p.200
^ Ibid., pp.195-6
^ The Key to Theosophy, Section 3
^ The Secret Doctrine, the Synthesis of Science, Religion and
Philosophy, Vol. II, p.723
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_Doctrine
^ Ibid., p 421
^ Ibid., p.168
^ Ibid., p.446
^ Powell, A.E. The Solar System: A Complete Outline of the
Theosophical Scheme of Evolution London:1930 The Theosophical
Publishing House Pages 298-299
^ Goodrick-Clarke, Nicholas The Occult Roots of Nazism: Secret Aryan
Cults and Their Influence on Nazi Ideology New York:1992 New York
University Press Chapter 13 "Herbert Reichstein and Ariosophy" Pages
164-176
^ Padfield, Peter Himmler New York:1990--Henry Holt Page 402
^ P.7, New Religions and the Nazis, By Karla Powne
^ Fundamentals of Pan-Aryanism:
http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?p=940600

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herrenvolk

^ Goodrick-Clarke, Nicholas (2003). Black Sun: Aryan Cults, Esoteric
Nazism and the Politics of Identity. New York: New York University
Press. pp. 221. ISBN 0-8147-3155-4.
^ Goodrick-Clarke, Nicholas Black Sun: Aryan Cults, Esoteric Nazism,
and The Politics of Identity New York: 2002--N.Y. University Press,
See Chapters 4 and 11 for extensive information about the proposed
"Western Imperium"

^ "Vindex—The Destiny of the West—Imperium of the West" by David
Myatt:
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=423609919&blogId=497426085

^ [http://www.natvan.com/national-vanguard/130/index.html
"Space Exploration: An Expression of the Aryan Soul" by John Clarke
National Vanguard magazine Issue 130, January-February 2006:]

Further reading

The Arctic Home in the Vedas by Bal Gangadhar Tilak
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Arctic_Home_in_the_Vedas

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bal_Gangadhar_Tilak

Arvidsson, Stefan. Aryan Idols. The Indo-European Mythology as Science
and Ideology. Chicago: University of Chicago Press. 2006 ISBN
0-226-02860-7
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Arvidsson

Poliakov, Leon. The Aryan Myth: A History of Racist and Nationalistic
Ideas In Europe New York: Barnes & Noble Books. 1996 ISBN
0-7607-0034-6
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Poliakov

Widney, Joseph P. Google Books edition of Race Life of the Aryan
Peoples Race Life of the Aryan Peoples New York: Funk & Wagnalls. 1907
In Two Volumes: Volume One--The Old World Volume Two--The New World
ISBN B000859S6O
http://books.google.com/books?id=s9UKAAAAIAAJ&printsec=titlepage#v=onepage&q=&f=false

External links

The Aryan race
http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/ListOfCollatedArticles/TheAryanRace.html
Indo-European Languages
http://www.bookrags.com/Indo-European_languages
Aryan by Kim Pearson
http://kpearson.faculty.tcnj.edu/Dictionary/aryan.htm
Iranian Branch of the Indo-European Family
http://www.nvtc.gov/lotw/months/february/IranianBranch.html
Races and Ethnic Groups of Iran
http://www.farhangsara.com/races.htm
Forensic Anthropology
http://www.port.ac.uk/departments/academic/biology/research/forensicanthropology/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_race

...and I am Std Harth


== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 20 2010 6:00 am
From: chhotemianinshallah


Whose abuse is it anyway?

Sharad Pawar is not new to verbal abuse. Before Bal Thackeray cosied
up to him in recent times, he was wont to call the Maratha warlord the
most colourful names. Among the more mentionable of them were
`maidyancha pota ' (a sack of flour) and a dog (I would rather not
repeat the Marathi as that sounds worse).He also continuously poked
fun at Pawar's ample girth, saying he might be getting stuck in his
commode each morning. To be noted: Thackeray himself preferred Indian
toilets. Hotels he stayed at in Maharashtra had to modify their rooms
for the purpose and when he thought he might be thrown into jail by
Chhagan Bhujbal his primary concern, ahead of other comforts, was if
he would get an Indian toilet in his cell — though Michael Jackson did
use a Western one when he came calling at Matoshree in 1997!

Pawar was so sickened by all such politically irrelevant comments that
he warned Thackeray about the consequences: "I am from the rural areas
and a rural rustic can get more colourful abuse out of his mouth than
someone like Thackeray, city born and bred can ever fathom. So don't
tempt me.'' That shut Thackeray up quite adequately because he could
not be sure about how insulting Pawar could get or even if he could
match the latter's vocabulary, word for word.

I guess Thackeray had reason to run scared. Because he knew Pawar
could say the worst possible things about somebody and still keep the
language parliamentary. Like the time in the Eighties — I recall I
was shocked out of my wits when he referred to then opposition leader
Mrinal Gore as `Pootna Maushi'.

Gore was a well-known socialist and she was very adept at her job as
an opposition leader. She was one of the primary persons who had
exposed Pawar's alleged involvement in what we then referred to as the
`dereservation scam'. Decoded, this was simply that soon after he
became Chief Minister in 1988, Pawar decided that more than 250 plots
in Bombay which had been reserved for schools, gardens, hospitals and
other public spaces would be, well, dereserved and handed over to
private builders for commercial constructions. Pawar had overruled the
objections of both bureaucrats and municipal authorities about the
advisability of turning Bombay into more of a concrete jungle thus.

Gore tabled the whole list of the plots, along with a minute by minute
account of how they were dereserved, in the Maharashtra Assembly —
leading Chhagan Bhujbal, then the Shiv Sena's lone legislator in the
House, to stick another unforgettable tag on Pawa: Bhookhandanche
Shrikhand Khalle (he has eaten shrikhand out of plots of land).

But while Pawar could brush aside such labels, what he could not get
over was the complete exposure of his integrity (since then wherever
Pawar goes, land scams, true or not, follow).

Why I believe Pawar's abuse of Gore was unforgivable was because of
the choice of his words — which were not unparliamentary by themselves
but the circumstances under which they were uttered were downright
vicious. Pootna was the rakshasi who had been assigned by Lord
Krishna's maternal uncle Kansa to poison the baby God through her
milk. Everyone knows the legend: how Baby Krishna bit her breasts and
destroyed both her and her evil purpose.

Gore had, at the time, been recovering from breast cancer and I
thought it was particularly nasty, downright mean and very hurtful of
Sharad Pawar to allude to a worthy opponent in such unpleasant and
personally painful terms. I was little more than a rookie at the time
and I recall rushing to Gore's party office at the Vidhan Bhavan soon
after Pawar's volley – I wanted to sympathise more than get a reaction
out of her to that insult.

However, Gore spoke of everything else but that abuse. And when I
asked her for a reaction, she said she had not heard anything at all
and there was no point reacting to something she did not know about.
Since Gore had very much been present during Pawar's outburst, I
realised that she was either very hurt or very forgiving. In either
case, her response was very dignified and, in the absence of
television channels in that era, the whole episode was put to rest
almost immediately.

So, if an eon later, Satyavrat Chaturvedi now calls Sharad Pawar
another colourful name, I am not surprised that the Maratha strongman
should not find it too hard to forget and forgive. For Chaturvedi's
terms of reference were neither personal nor could be too hurtful
(except to the extent that he chose to abuse at all) – those are
terms used almost like punctuation in many North Indian tongues. But
while MCs and BCs might be lingua franca in the North, I agree with
Pawar that it was quite unparliamentary language to have been used at
all.

Perhaps Chaturvedi should have taken lessons from Pawar before he got
abusive: on how to be parliamentary and unpleasant at one and the
same time!

Comments

One Response to "Whose abuse is it anyway?"

Rajen Kaushal says:
March 20, 2010 at 7:10 am
By far, conclusion is that unparliamentary language has no place on
high seats like CM. Thackerays comments are given more weightage by
Media otherwise, going by their political stature, they do not deserve
much weightage.

After exorbitant rise in food prices and sugar, Sharad Pawar's
response was poor but going by Congress rules after independendence,
Congress, a party of capitalist never contained inflation and many
fold increase in food prices after independence is evident. Moreover,
while appointing ministers, Govt. must ensure that a person does not
become minister for industry from his home state. Maharastra houses
major sugar mills and Sharad Pawar should not have been Agricultural
Minister. What better or clean administration Manmohan Singh,
projected and perceived as honest man by Indians, provide?

http://blogs.hindustantimes.com/singly-political/2010/03/19/whose-abuse-is-it-anyway/

Beat men fair and square

IF THE BILL DOES BECOME LAW, THOUGH,
I AM SURE AT LEAST THE YADAVS, WHO
ARE NOW OPPOSING IT VOCIFEROUSLY,
WILL BE AMONG THE FIRST TO BRING OUT
THEIR WIVES AND DAUGHTERS-IN-LAW TO
OCCUPY HIGH POSITIONS

Ihave always been agnostic when it comes to women's
reservation: I am not against it per se, but I am not for
it either. My reservations about, well, reservation for
women is based on observation of how it has played out
in Maharashtra, which was among the first states to introduce
a 33 per cent quota for women in local self-government
bodies.
When I travelled to the villages, I noticed that most of
the women sarpanchs were wives of powerful men of the
area. Though it is getting slightly better these days, most
of these women did not take decisions on their own —
and if they did, their husbands would still beat them up.
In the cities, it was only somewhat better — the men
might not beat up women but the latter were certainly
puppets in the hands of their husbands.
I recall one particular woman corporator who had a
fairly bad reputation for just being who she was: the conservative
wife of a local party boss. Her husband took to
threatening people in her name and her mother-in-law
set up a desk right at her front door to rake in the earnings
— she personally counted the cash all day long!
It drove even members of her own party crazy. One of
them told me wryly, "I am against women's reservation
only for this. Give a man a ticket and only he is corrupt,
give a woman a ticket and her whole family becomes
extortionists.''
Of course, I did not agree with that perception and
ticked him off quite soundly.
I notice, though, that at least the Brihanmumbai
Municipal Corporation (BMC) has got better over the
years. But several years ago former Chief Minister
Manohar Joshi had told us, after fielding women relatives
of Shiv Sainiks, quite unabashedly, "We are a purushi
(male) party. Electable women are very difficult to find.''
However, when Bombay Mayor Shraddha Jadhav gave
away awards on International Women's Day this year, all
top officials on the dais were women: Shailaja Girkar is
the Deputy Mayor, Mridula Joshi is the Municipal
Secretary and Manisha Mhaiskar is the Additional
Municipal Commissioner. One half was there on account
of the benefit of reservation; the other half had got there
on their own steam, perhaps pipping several worthy men
at the post.
So while I saluted all those women, my ambivalence
towards women's quota continued, even as the UPA government
failed to have the Bill passed in Parliament on
Monday.
If the Bill does become law, though, I am sure at least
the Yadavs, who are now opposing it vociferously, will be
among the first to bring out their wives and daughtersin-
law to occupy high positions — yes, even the 'par kati'
ones — remember Sharad Yadav's obnoxious remark
about women with short hair? His wife has (or at least
had at the time he made that remark) short hair.
Next would be the girlfriends, as we have seen many politicians
promote their paramours even without the benefit
of reservations. I wonder how long it will be before the
common woman, without the benefit of a Godfather in
politics, gets an opportunity to enter a legislative body
on her own merit.
But if she did, I am not so sure it would be fair to restrict
women to constituencies for just five or ten years. Former
Speaker Somnath Chatterjee had represented his constituency
in the Lok Sabha for ten terms — if not 50 years,
given several mid-term polls, this meant at least 40 years
at a stretch. Why should women not have similar right
to continue for as long as the voters want them?
If I were into electoral politics, I certainly would be
highly resentful at the injustice and unfairness of it all.
Yet, there is really no other way out of the situation. Which
once again reinforces my ambivalence about a quota for
women.

So it is just as well that I am not a politician with parliamentary
ambitions. I prefer to best the men at their
own game and beat them in their own backyards. As
Pratibha Patil did. And as many other exemplary women
are doing. ■ sanandan@hindustantimes.com

http://www.hindustantimes.com/images/HTPopups/120310/10_03_M_MTR_16.pdf

How does she do it?

I have said all I wanted to say about my reservations about the
women's reservation bill in my column anandan on Wednesday this week.

Like I said in the column, I am agnostic about the bill – I neither
believe in it nor do I knock it. I simply doubt that it will help at
all (help the common woman, that is).

But whatever my reservations, I am amazed at how Sonia Gandhi managed
to have the bill passed in the Rajya Sabha on Tuesday, March 9. That
morning it looked as though not just the fate of the bill but also her
authority over her party was at risk. For, I know as a matter of fact
that many men in her party were as determined as Lalu and Mulayam
Yadav to ensure that it never became law and I thought they would
surreptitiously pitch in to scuttle the bill. But now I do not think
too many of them will dare voice their opposition.

I wonder what makes Sonia Gandhi take all the right calls and achieve
miracle after miracle in such quick succession. This particular bill
had been hanging in the balance for 14 years and when several more
stable governments could not manage to get it through, it really did
require a great deal of political will to push it at the risk of so
much endangerment of the UPA's future.

I have heard people say quite often that we cannot find one single
Indian to rule this country and follow it up with the query: why
should Indians have to kowtow to the Italian bahu of Mrs Indira
Gandhi? In fact, I am looking to all those critics for an answer: yes,
really, why?

But I think I have a clue. And that came from a British diplomat to
quite another question. We were discussing how the Indian diaspora was
among the highest wage earners everywhere else in the world (and thus,
not surprisingly, they incurred the wrath of the locals in their
adopted countries for beating them to and keeping their jobs by sheer
dint of hard work). Yet, when it came to our own country, we were
among the poorest, most backward and taking too long getting anywhere.

The diplomat said, "Perhaps the answer lies in the fact that Indians
follow the rules to the `t' wherever they live abroad. In India they
break the law all the time and so make it difficult for both
themselves and others to get along.''

Then a Congress worker told me why he preferred Sonia Gandhi to her
husband, Rajiv. "She has a very European outlook on rules and honour.
She keeps her word and will not allow any violations. For example, if
the maximum age for a youth congress leader is 35, she will not allow
any one older to be elected to that post. No other considerations like
caste et al except what is stated in the rulebook. That is heartening
for the rest of us: we know we will eventually get there if we fit the
bill and no one can bring any untoward influence to bear upon her to
push us off the ladder. Even Rajivji was not so correct, he would
allow the occasional jugaad. ''

That was a eulogy of his party president, of course, but I now wonder
if that is true. Perhaps she does bring a sense of honour and follows
the rules in everything she does and so succeeds more than others who
believe in, well, jugaad (manoeuvring people and situations to suit
their needs).

But on Tuesday, as she gave interviews to women journalists on
television, I was impressed by Sonia's tone and pitch – happy but
thanking all the men for having made it possible. Gracious for their
support to both the Left parties and the BJP which have knocked her
endlessly over various issues but not gloating about it at all a la
the Yadavs, keeping a door open for the allies and, of course, very
self-effacing.

I say `self-effacing' because when I first met her in Nasik several
years ago, after she first took over the party's reigns in the middle
of an election in 1998 and miraculously helped a losing Congress win
45 of the 48 Lok Sabha seats from Maharashtra, she was quick to give
the credit to Sharad Pawar. And when we asked her about her role as
the Congress president, she said, "I am only the latest in a long
series of Congress presidents. Other Congress leaders have been around
longer than I have been and it is they who have done things for the
party, not me. I am still learning.''

I guess she has learnt well by now and I remark upon another thing: in
the decade at the start of which even her own party men took her with
several fistfuls of salt to now, she seems to have muted the criticism
about her being a misfit in Indian politics and put their uncertainty
about her ability to deliver to rest.

The Congress is the most indisciplined, chaotic and irreverent party I
know. Yet they revere their party president more than the Shiv Sainiks
do Bal Thackeray or the BJP does its own succession of party chiefs.
Perhaps that is because she delivers to them nine times out of ten,
while others do not. But I continue to wonder: did Sonia Gandhi learn
it all at the feet of her mother-in-law or is she bringing a European
sense of commitment to her party that helps her defeat the might of
the BJP and its formidable allies in 2004 and return with an even
greater majority in 2009? And now give to Indian women what no man (or
even woman — most notably Indira Gandhi) has dared or cared to before?

(9 votes, average: 5 out of 5)

Posted by Sujata Anandan on Friday, March 12, 2010 at 9:05 pm

28 Responses to "How does she do it?"

vijai lugani says:
March 13, 2010 at 3:25 am
she leaenedrned the political process in india under the leader ship
of mrs. indra gandhi and of cousrse from rajiv gandhi. she knows upto
this time how to bring together different political shades under one
umberala when requied, she does not believe in cast and creed.she is
hard worker and of couse haverahul and pryanka and some faithful
polrical advisers. the author of this artical is absoultely right in
every aspect and more ever she is not power hungry. if she does not
like some people she can show them door to get out.

Nikhil Reply:

March 14th, 2010 at 3:13 am

Vijay Lugani,

If I write about the good qualities of my dhobi they're not too far
from the ones that you wrote – hardworking, honest, faithful,
relatively selfless and mostly fair. For that matter these qualities
are universal and necessary to succeed in any profession. What makes
Sonia different from us is she finds herself married in to the most
politically influential family in our country where political power is
hereditary and party members are expected to bow to the whips of party
leaders.

Ajay says:
March 13, 2010 at 5:16 am
Interesting thoughts… However, I think many Europeans may feel that
Italian background is bit different from that of Western European one…

Ed says:
March 13, 2010 at 5:53 am
Take a dig on this topic at

[ http://pages.rediff.com/we-evolve/21809#allfeeds ]

The bill is only useful when it break the poverty lines, dynasty lines

It should be 35% (poor women), 35%(poor men), 30% (talented)

70% should be representative of poor.

It should be 35% (poor women), 35%(poor men), 30% (talented –
scientist, economist, etc)

THE BIG QUESTION IS how do we qualify to be

1 )Identify 70% – Poor & most popular 10 candiate representing Poor
People from certain region (MP/MLA area) to whom the Election
commision will fund campaign money

2 )To keep tap on Rich person whose campaign funds/money has to be
capped by Election commision and made almost equal to 1).

3 )Criteria to identify 30% (talented people)

Ways to find the list 1) and 2) and 3) is something ruling party needs
to think and debate instead of wasting time.

To gauge 1), we need to count the strongest of the following points by
Election Commision and more can be added by debates

A) Years of work

B) Have an open debate at ONE or TWO cantenders preferred location
agreed by each contenders,
let contenders speak what they have done and want to do.

Make people/choser stand in different locations on the debate ground
to exibit their support.

The count done to choose the top 10.

C) Ensure rotation between Male and Female, thus women whose work and
popularity is on her own rather than backing of GOONDAS should be
preferred for qualifying 1)
People backed by money and goonda power cannot qualify for 1)

D) Every term, Election commision can choose certain region by Gender,
thus they can choose between the women & men that qualify for 1) or
term when both women & men qualify for 1)

Debate should be there to decide if 2)candiates should be allowed to
contest irrespective of gender.

Cap/restriction of number of time(2 times max) a candiate can stand
for elections in a sequence.

Debate on how election commsion will enforce 1) on all parties and in
all regions.
Debate on how to lessen the dynasty and family business and bring
democracy by Election Commission criteria in 1).

Nikhil Reply:

March 14th, 2010 at 4:11 am

Ed,

Because you write of so many different, often contradictory,
qualifications for running for office may be you should be our next
Election Commission.

Vijay Saini says:
March 13, 2010 at 6:36 am
Meekly following Sonia Gandhi is the slave mentallity. Although India
is a free country now, it would take us a very long time to get over
the slave mindframe. I think we are ripe and ready for foreign rule by
proxy. Any country can capture us in reality.

AB says:
March 13, 2010 at 7:56 am
Funny article, then lets elect Silvio Berlusconi as president of
India.Problem solved

Jitendra says:
March 13, 2010 at 9:18 am
I have never read such a degrading article. It is a shame that we
still have white man's lackey amongst us. It is achivement of Mcaulays
education aystem that country continues to create such people even
after 62 years. She can do it because congis are a party of chamchas
and nincompoops including PM. Not a single congi has any moral, ethics
and no one is ready to stand up for the good of country. They only
stand up to save their chair and that depends of congi president. This
article talks of European values and commitment. Is author trying to
say that India does not have people with values and commitments. We
have plenty of people but stupid system of election where masses of
Idiots vote on the basis of caste, religion and personal loyalties.
What a stupid assumption on the part of author that Eurpeons are
better then us. In western coutries it is the system that works but
people are no different from us.

This bill is wrong because it will create rabris. Every from of
reservation and quota should be removed if country has to make any
progress. Otherwise mediocres will continue to stuff this country and
we will reamin a third world country forever. Singapore, Japan and
Malayasia are better than us without importing any whity. Have you
ever thought why we are still joke of the world after 62 years.
Reservation is an indication of failures of Govt economic and social
policies, and majority of the time Congi traitors have been in rule.
Wake up and get rid of banana spine and start believing in yourself
and it is shame that congis have imposed a whity on us. It hurts my
self respect.

LAKSHMANAN says:
March 13, 2010 at 9:32 am
Any type of reservations, on a permanent basis, is a threat to
liberty, standard of life, freedom and finally to democracy. See what
is happening in government due to reservations, especially reservation
policy in promotions. Merit is sidelined and in the name of social
justice many people occupy posts which they would not have got but for
reservations. It is not their fault and no one is worried about the
declining standard of Administration which is directly affecting the
generl public.

The introduction of reservation for women may be an eye opener in the
years to come and after 10 or 15 years every all shall join together
to undo reservations of any kind, I hope.

Nikhil says:
March 13, 2010 at 10:11 am
Oh god! When will journos stop sucking toes of the Nehru-Gandhi
family? Perhaps, never.

Bhukkal Reply:

March 13th, 2010 at 10:21 am

Thats the best summarisation of this article, Nikhil. Well the journos
are on fat pay packets….there is no responsible and honest journalism
left, they have to also buy flats in posh areas, salaries will cater
to their chai paani only… Shameless Creed, I wish there were Kiran
Bedis in Journalism as well.

Ekta B says:
March 13, 2010 at 11:07 am
Although an expat now, this is definitely the way I see things under
Sonia Gandhi in India, a very well written article indeed.
I have now lived overseas for the last 14 years and as someone who has
been given their fair share in an adopted and foreign land and made to
feel so at home, I must say it feels good to read that Sonia has
achieved in India (not from a political but recognition stand-point)
what we hope to achieve overseas as immigrant Indians.
I hope there are more people like her from different political
persuasions for it would make for a better and stronger India.

Nikhil Reply:

March 14th, 2010 at 3:01 am

Ekta B,

To be where Sonia is in politics today, one has to first marry in to
the most politically influential family in a country where dynastic
politics reigns supreme. This privilege is found only in India and not
in the West. After looking at the success of political heirs in India,
I'm convinced humans are capable of being reasonably successful if
they're thrown in any job.

As far as success of foreigners in India is concerned, we already do
it well in many different spheres.

Anil says:
March 13, 2010 at 2:29 pm
Basically I am against any kind of reservations. The historic bill
however was a necessity because of our historic suppression of the
female gender over thousands of centuries. The real necessity is the
empowerment to the women. The glaring example is in the way women are
treated in Army. The strangest thing is that people have totally
forgotten the most maligned PM Mr H D Devegowda (the humble farmer)
and his Law Minister Ram Das Khalap who tabled the bill for the first
time.

Anil Reply:

March 13th, 2010 at 2:44 pm

One more point about our Constitution. India gave voting rights to
women since its independence. USA gave voting rights to women almost
80 years after the blacks got to vote in 1870 !

Gopi Thomas says:
March 13, 2010 at 6:30 pm
Although I do not care about congress party and its politics, I do
admire and respect Mrs Gandhi. Like many, I was questioning her
selection, her "foreign" status, her commitment etc. I have come 180
degrees around, she is an exemplary leader, good disciplinarian. I
firmly believe now, that she at the core, is 100% "Indian", much much
more than many of her followers or other Indians. I do believe she
wants to create a better and new India on the foundation of our
ancient and rich heritage. Originally it was the call of her husband;
now I truly believe, to her, it is now the call of the country.

Atul8 says:
March 13, 2010 at 8:52 pm
In all my years of international travel, I learnt a valuable lesson
about myslef and my countrymen…. we lack accountability & discipline.

Of course, controlling the congress coffers does help, but Sonia'
foreign roots are really an advantage in this Jugaad ridden society

Most important, normally europeans are not given to visions of
grandeur when in power, unlike in our case where the lust for that red
light on the car is more important than perforing their gievn jobs.

It has to be the European sense of commitment….all the way!!

Nikhil Reply:

March 14th, 2010 at 4:02 am

Atul8,

If you think Sonia's european heritage makes her special in Indian
politics, too bad we let the British go, is it not?

The European sense of commitment and discipline were not achieved
overnight by passing bills for quotas in European governments. If
you're suggesting to overcome lack of accountability and discipline in
India through more political quotas, perhaps, you should continue with
your international travel till you see clear.

Atul8 Reply:

March 14th, 2010 at 10:19 am

Nikhil,

My response in one line -

Too bad we did not embrace and carry forward the sense of discipline &
accountability when we let the British go.

You need to do something about your aggression – it is colouring your
usual objectivity

Nikhil Reply:

March 14th, 2010 at 4:44 pm

Atul8,

The sense of discipline & accountability is not a British – or should
I say Italian – USP. Such characteristics are universal and cultivated
in societies where merit and systems are valued more than quotas and
personalities. We could not develop that sense because of intellectual
lethargy and we let 'some' leaders off the hook when they dilute
democractic processes.

What you may see as aggression, I see it as a natural response to the
perfidy of the mainstream media. Happy international traveling, for
you.

Atul8 Reply:

March 15th, 2010 at 5:46 pm

Nikhil,

Whatever we are, we have done unto ourselves – good or bad.

But when a discussion veers away from the issue to personalities, then
it becomes a clear indication that objectivity is losing out.

Musnt let that happen in the interest of a healthy debate.

Nikhil Reply:

March 16th, 2010 at 1:14 am

Atul8,

Dear, the article revolves around hollow personality and not
substance. The comments will not be too far off, would they? I
fundamentally disagree with your point of view and I had to express it
in a sharp way.

Atul8 Reply:

March 18th, 2010 at 12:43 am

Nikhil,

You were not being sharp. You were being obtuse.

However, enough has been exchanged on this topic, and we should move
on.

Nikhil Reply:

March 18th, 2010 at 5:31 am

Atul8,

It provoked you, that's all I wanted. Enough said!

Harish says:
March 15, 2010 at 3:31 pm
Is ambika soni ghost writing these articles

You did hit it out of the park with the European honour bit maam…
stupid and rash…but..takes guts..the right wing is sort of like the
australian team in the early part of last decade on the internet…and
they are still reeling in shock and have not attacked this piece in
earnest even after two days…

Rajeev says:
March 16, 2010 at 1:07 am
This article truly reflects dark skinned Indians' mentality…eternal
slaves

Anil says:
March 16, 2010 at 2:17 am
The Congress is the most indisciplined, chaotic and irreverent party I
know. Yet they revere their party president more than the Shiv Sainiks
do Bal Thackeray or the BJP does its own succession of party chiefs.

The first sentence is unadultyerated lie.. i have never seen any
congress man being anythgin beyond yesman to the nehru family figure..
Somehow this is being presented as virtue which it is not.

BJP is nto family rule Shiv sena could be another matetr altogether
but to ask BJP men to be supine and fawning liek congressmen towards
their leader is negating the intra party democracy of BJP. Everyone is
free to express hsi/per opninon noone need fawn like congressmen do to
the later of 10 janpath.

Rajeev says:
March 16, 2010 at 9:53 pm
I get a feeling that Anandan may be dreaming for Congress ticket in
2014..Good going..Why don't you start licking feet of Sonia like
Barkha did recently.

http://blogs.hindustantimes.com/singly-political/2010/03/12/how-does-she-do-it/

Kill Bill, for men's and women's sake

Amid riotous scenes, India's upper house passed a controversial
legislation to reserve a third of seats in federal and state
legislatures for women. The constitutional amendment "one that changes
the scope of India's Constitution" is likely to scrape through the
powerful lower house, too. Despite overreaching itself, the government
of the day will probably survive.
In principle, empowering women is the way to go. Yet this triumph is a
zero-sum game. One participant's gains can come only from another's
equivalent losses. It seeks to pay Paul by robbing Peter.

This bill is deeply flawed because collateral damages have not been
addressed. Since it will be a zero-sum game, it will have a direct
bearing on representations of minority communities, backward castes
and marginalized women themselves. The Bill is anti-minority, anti-
backwards, and both anti-women and anti-men.

In a largely risk-averse political system, Congress chief Sonia Gandhi
can take the credit for pulling out a Bill that previous governments
"including those run by her own party" had abandoned, and for driving
it past dissenters whom she may in future need.

Imposing a 33 per cent quota seems momentous in a country where female
foetuses are aborted, wives spanked and women are paid less than a
third the male average in unorganized jobs. In reality, the quota can
add to the sort of disequilibrium current legislatures are made of.

Even setting aside the fact that some male MPs will naturally have to
step down for women, the proposed law fundamentally changes the basic
nature of India's electoral representation.

With a 15-year shelf-life, 33 per cent of the seats will be blocked in
rotation and will be done in a way that a seat shall be reserved once
in three back-to-back elections. The revolving quota is the Bill's
most serious flaw.

Two-thirds of candidates, men and women, will be unseated every time
and one-thirds will have no chance of being re-elected from the same
seat. This one-third will be left wondering if they will get to retain
their seats, depending on the outcome of the lottery.

On the whole, it will set off largescale churning "every single time"
that will make elections farcical. Electors will vote in, rather than
vote out incompetent representatives. With frequently changing
representatives, what would voters go by in deciding whom to elect?

The role of past performance in deciding a candidate's fate will be
further lessened, thereby blunting the only weapon the common man has.
Constituencies will cease to matter for candidates. The veterans and
more guile among candidates will resettle themselves, pushing out less
iconic politicians.

Accountability will suffer because a candidate will less likely go to
the same voter every time. The voters' powers to rate a candidate's
performance will diminish, paving the way for a greater role of money
in deciding electoral outcomes.

A "sense of belonging" is part and parcel of Indian politics.
Constituencies are nursed by politicians who invest time, efforts and
money into the place they hope to get elected from.

Can we have compelling women leaders if they do not have strong
permanent political bases? The current Bill is paternalistic; it seeks
to make rolling-stone politicians of women, or "one-time players", to
use women activist Madhu Kishwar' words.

Several women's rights organisations have highlighted these fault
lines. NGO Manushi advocates an alternative Bill, requiring political
parties to reserve nominations (tickets) for women, not seats.
Feminist fundamentalists, however, in their zeal, have failed to
appreciate the serious weaknesses hidden in the proposed amendment.

Though it will not exactly result in separate electorates, the women's
reservation Bill, in spirit, moves towards that direction. But
proponents of the Bill deny such a possibility. Separate electorates,
theoretically, are those where electors and the elected belong to the
same community, sex or caste.

The Constituent Assembly "which served as India's first Parliament
until it framed the Constitution" had overturned separate electorates
granted by the British government to minorities, especially Muslims
and Sikhs.,

Framers of the Constitution opted to keep the highest elected
institution free from preferential treatment, preferring the "first
past the post system"over proportional representation, save for time-
bound reservation for Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes to enable
them to overcome disadvantages.

The Constituent Assembly initially included minority safeguards in its
Report on Minority Rights adopted in August 1947 and in the Draft
Constitution's Part XIV. However, subsequent nationalist arguments
"situated in the immediate past history of Partition" paved the way
for a reversal of minority safeguards.

The principal arguments against it were that such rights were based on
caste and religion, and religion-based separate electorates had been
the immediate trigger for Partition. With the Muslim League and the
Sikh Panthic Party in disarray, Muslim and Sikh acquiescence on
reversing minority safeguards was ultimately secured.

The reversal was done by a close vote in the Constituent Assembly
Advisory Committee meeting, but key Muslim leaders, including Congress
leader Maulana Azad, abstained. (R. Retzlaff points out in "The
Problem of Communal Minorities in the Drafting of the Indian
Constitution" that the Constitution would have included political
safeguards for religious minorities had framing been completed during
the initial timetable fixed for it. Also see Rochana Bajpai's Minority
Rights in Indian Constitution, Working Paper 30).

If the women's Bill is passed in its current form, then a clear case
emerges for compensatory minority safeguards to be reactivated, not
separate electorates but reserved seats.

In fact, parties like Rashtriya Janata Dal, the Samajwadi Party and
Muslim organizations have demanded a quota-within-quota in women's
reservation.

Muslim representation in the federal legislature is dwindling: from 48
in 1985, it is 29 at present. In all 15 Lok Sabha elections, only 14
Muslim women have been elected. Kerala has two Muslim federal
lawmakers, Tamil Nadu and Andhra Pradesh have 1 each. States such as
Mahrashtra, Gujarat, Haryana and Rajasthan have none..

The women's reservation Bill is based on the presumption of
homogeneity in the status of women. Homogeneity is a stupid idea when
applied to assess communities horizontally. Not all women, like
Muslims, are equally disadvantaged or privileged.

Since privileged groups are always in a better position to leverage
concessions, the proposed amendment will help privileged women gain at
the expense of less-privileged ones. Though ideally, the highest
elected forum should be able to be free from all reservations, a quota
that specifically addresses maginalised women would have been
pragmatic.

The Congress, at his stage, clearly has not thought of the jigsaw
puzzle that awaits it. It is simply basking in the glory of a
political stunt. The BJP has eyes set on inroads through upper-caste
women. The Left’s euphoria matches Abdullah’s in this Urdu
proverb: begaani shaadi me Abdullah diwana (Abdullah is rejoicing at
an uninvited wedding).

(10 votes, average: 2.7 out of 5)

Posted by Zia Haq on Sunday, March 14, 2010 at 8:04 pm
Filed under India · Tagged collateral damages, Congress chief Sonia
Gandhi, elections, India's Constitution, legislation, Madhu Kishwar,
Scheduled Castes, Scheduled Tribes

36 Responses to "Kill Bill, for men's and women's sake"

Gopi Thomas says:
March 14, 2010 at 9:48 pm
Churning, short terms etc are good; and an increased representation
for women is even better. Democracy works through elected
representatives voting on changes and issues. I do hope Lok Sabha
votes for this; and if they do, I hope people like Zia will shut up.
These are the same people who want reservation for this group of
people and that group of people; what is wrong with having seats
reserved for women?

Panchayaths, municipality, and Corporation elections (and mayoral
slots) in Kerala have been reserved for women in the last 15 years,
and it ahs produced real grass roots level progress. A bigger
representation by women in Parliamenta nd aswemblies will only do
good.

Vijay Bhatia Reply:

March 15th, 2010 at 2:53 am

Gopi, you are arguing in favor of increased representation of women in
Parliament and Assemblies. That of course is very much desirable. But
this bill, in its current form is a sure prescription of political
chaos.
What this bill means is that no male leader can represent same
constituency more than twice! And this will do no long term good for
women politicians either. Because, before they can gain ground and
experience, they will have to move on, since in next election cycle
the seat won't be reserved!

Here is a very Rational take on this important issue (feel free to
comment):-

http://rationalopinion.blogspot.com/2010/03/no-good-womens-reservation-bill.html

[Reply]

Vijay Reply:

March 15th, 2010 at 8:09 am

No one is arguing against a bigger representation by omen in
Parliament and assemblies will be good. The debate is about how to
achieve it.
The bill in its current form is sure recipe for political chaos.
Here is another rational opinion on this important issue:-

http://rationalopinion.blogspot.com/2010/03/no-good-womens-reservation-bill.html

Bell Bajao Reply:

March 15th, 2010 at 8:17 pm

"Panchayaths, municipality, and Corporation elections (and mayoral
slots) in Kerala have been reserved for women in the last 15 years,
and it ahs produced real grass roots level progress. A bigger
representation by women in Parliamenta nd aswemblies will only do
good."

Indeed! We've seen this happen in other parts of the company as well.
Reservation in panchayat has actually empowered women in villages and
has helped a lot in their upliftment.

VARUN SAXENA says:
March 15, 2010 at 1:53 am
Mr.Zia, the bill has certain Issues and to a certain the bill proposed
by Madhu Kishwar is in someways better.
But what I cannot understand is this. You said "The Bill is anti-
minority, anti-backward". Can you pls explain How ?

How can women reservation bill be Anti Muslim ? How come just about
everything becomes Anti Muslim ?

I hope this bill passes with some modifications and not the
modifications which Mulayam and Laloo are suggesting but the ones
suggested by Learned People.
The only reason Mulayam and Laloo are against this Bill is that most
of the MPs' of these 2 parties are big goons and only through these
goondaism of these goons alongwith folling Muslims and Lower Castes by
pitting them against Upper Castes do they win elections.

Now it can be safely said that more than 95% goons in INDIA would be
men. Henceforth with Women having 33% reservations the chances of
these parties winning Elections will be inversely affected

Ashish says:
March 15, 2010 at 2:21 am
I agree that while the objective is laudable, the bill as it stands
today is deeply flawed. I am not comfortable with the idea of having
no power over my MP (man or woman) who knows that he/ she will not
need my vote next time.

I liked the arguments put forward by Karan Thapar favouring changes to
the bill in his column earlier today.

Am I against reserving seats for women? No, I am not. But, this bill
in its present form; no, it does not appeal to me. MPs are not IAS
officers that they can serve one constituency (district) for 2 terms
and then move to another one for the next terms.

However, trust Zia to use the Women's reservation bill to ask for
reservations for Muslims.
Way to go Zia; suck up to Mulayam now. Who knows, he might make you an
MLA/ MP from Delhi.

Vini says:
March 15, 2010 at 2:27 am
The headline of this post should be: Kill Bill, for men's sake. After
all, all the rhetoric we have heard in recent days about the bill
being a threat to parliamentary democracy, equality… blah, blah,
blah…. including this blogpost… is simply a smokescreen to hide the
truth that no man wants to be caught admitting: That men, don't want
to share power with women. Ever.

Yes the Bill has flaws, but those flaws can be addressed without
killing the Bill.

What I want to say here first is that I take extreme offense at the
use of the word 'spanking' to trivialize a serious issue like domestic
violence. Do you have any idea what domestic violence is? Perhaps not.
That's why you treat it so flippantly.

As for the rest of the blog, it is all conjecture. You and all the
doomsayers don't know if this bill will work till it is implemented.
It might just. And forget that old argument that it will be taken over
by elite women. So far it's been elite men in charge.. so what's wrong
with elite women having a go?

As for the problems of revolving quota that you bring up as the Bill's
most serious flaw, I think you can argue the other way too. That is,
MPs from reserved constituencies will work extra hard in the reserved
constituency to ensure that they get a ticket when the seat is not
reserved any more because of the good work they would have hopefully
done.

Ashish Reply:

March 16th, 2010 at 6:02 pm

@Vini,
Mr Zia can't just win, can he ?
For the first time, Zia tried arguing for the majority (men!). And,
still, he finds very few supporters!

Not speaking for Zia here; just speaking for myself.

I support the objectives behind the bill; as a man. I see in India a
huge need to balance the power structure which is so tilted in favour
of men. Also, as others have pointed out in comments, an increased
representation for women is inversely correlated (or so we hope) to
the criminality quotient of our legislatures.
I do not wish this bill to be killed. I do however wish this bill to
be amended to somehow handle the rotation issue. Like I had said,
Karan Thapar made some excellent suggestions. So did the legal cell
head of the Shiv Sena on TV.

Ma'am, most men on this blog are not against the bill; please do not
make the mistake of thinking men oppose the bill. Far from it.
Certainly not because we will lose a chance to be an MP/ MLA… I doubt
any of us commenting here have realistically ever thought of
contesting elections.

All men are not Laloo Yadav/ Sharad Yadav/ Mulayam Yadav.. luckily all
women are not Mayawati, Mamata or Jayalalitha either who promote
women even less than men do.
May I also mention that I have a vested interest? As one with two
daughters, at least one of whom is seriously disinclined to study
(admittedly early days, she is just 6), I love the new career options
this bill opens up for her.

Vijay Bhatia says:
March 15, 2010 at 2:55 am
"I am not comfortable with the idea of having no power over my MP (man
or woman) who knows that he/ she will not need my vote next time."

Excellent point Ashish!
Here is my take on this important issue, if you like:-

http://rationalopinion.blogspot.com/2010/03/no-good-womens-reservation-bill.html

K says:
March 15, 2010 at 4:09 am
I dont understand what makes the women reservation bad but all those
other reservations (BC,SC,OBC etc.) good ? Both types are aimed at the
'marginalized' and both actually lower the quality of politicians we
elect and even more importantly, both a against the constitution which
lets the people decide who should represent them.

Quota has only helped influential sections of SC,BC,OBC. This is not
like a 'Kaun Banega Crorepati' where an unknown, marginalized dalit or
lady can make it to the parliament, no matter how much quota is
introduced.

As Sonia shockingly and sadly commented, people like Lalu will have
greater control over parliament and greater share of black money
because he has seven daughters and the power to field them in
elections.

peshori ahuja says:
March 15, 2010 at 5:41 am
Reservation itself means that the comunity, the religion, the class,
or any groupthat asks or gets reservation is not capable of attaining
the efficiency of the level that is attained by those for whom there
is no reservation.

Not only that but by asking or getting the reservation makes the
reserveds a second class citizens and it makes the clever politicians
more manipolative and powerful.

Vijay says:
March 15, 2010 at 8:14 am
For most parts I agree with Zia's reasoning. This bill in it's current
form is a sure recipe for political chaos. Political commitment by
parties is way to go.
Why political parties have to be coerced by laws? Where did the days
go, when parties used to organize "aandolans" for social cause? Why
not even congress want to field more women candidates, unless coerced
by the law?
This is anything but LEADERSHIP.

Here is another rational opinion on this important issue:-

http://rationalopinion.blogspot.com/2010/03/no-good-womens-reservation-bill.html

Joseph James says:
March 15, 2010 at 8:20 am
The writer bases his arguments against the women's bill on the false
premise that the retention of a constituency by a sitting member is
the be-all and end-all of democracy. In an advanced stage of
democracy, every election will bring in new candidates as it is
happening in the southern states. In fact, a constituency must be
nursed by a party and not by individuals. At any rate, going by the
arguments of bill's opponents like Zia, the candidates displaced by
the reservation are going to promote women from their families. This
will mean that, certain constituencies which were individual pocket
boroughs earlier will now become family pocket boroughs. Or ingenious
candidates will now start nursing two constituencies instead of one.
In short the electorate, now, stand to receive more attention from the
politicians, which isn't a bad thing after all. Moreover, rotational
unseating is applicable only to men, not to women. So, performing
women members can continue to represent their constituencies even when
they become unreserved. This will push the female strength in the
parliament beyond the mandatory 33%. The argument that the bill
doesn't address the grievances of marginalized women doesn't hold
water either. As of today all women are marginalized. The quota within
quota can come in the second stage. After all this is a mere
beginning. Amendments can be introduced later to make it foolproof. It
must be given time to evolve like the anti-defection law. What's most
worrying about the anti-bill movement is that it seems to be centred
around the Muslim interests. Even the socialist parties are
purportedly doing it please the Muslim minority. I do not think Islam
is as anti-women and anti-progress as it is usually made out to be.

Dr. P.K. Jha says:
March 15, 2010 at 8:43 am
Reservation in any form is bad, be it caste-based or gender-based or
religion-based. As Karan Thapar says, the whole issue of reservation
is an offense, for it leads to severe discrimination. The proposed
bill for women is no exception.

The women in favor of this bill are virtually projecting themselves as
handicapped. Strangely, they are the ones who also insist on gender
equality.

Every policy of reservation is initially deemed to end after a period
of ten to fifteen years, and this one is no exception. However, we
know from our experience that this kind of promise is basically a
hogwash.

There is still time for good sense to prevail. For heaven's sake,
withdraw the bill.

sks says:
March 15, 2010 at 9:05 am
The fact is that a woman might actually do very well in 5 years to be
re-elected again. Why should anyone presume that they will not get
reelected! It might be the best strategy to break the current fiefdom
without performance!
By the way, which sane person uses the word spanked for abuse!

Shrinivas says:
March 15, 2010 at 9:22 am
Some of the objections to the bill are valid, but since for 60 years
the disparity, marginalization and backwardness of women is not
addressed by the the political system, only quota is the solution.
Though this is meant for 15 years, we can imagine this not going away
after that.
The people who suggest that let parties reserve % of candidacy to
women is not going to work, as we all know that just to satisfy the %
the parties will give tickets where they don't stand a chance to win.
Now, about quota within quota, I believe being women, representing
women and fighting for women is a bigger cause than representing a
cast, community or a section of society. So let's fight for the the
right cause first. These parties who are making hoopla about quota in
quota, did not bother to give tickets neither to women nor minorities
in the same %.

Sid says:
March 15, 2010 at 9:26 am
First of All welcome change from Zia Haq – atleast instead of calling
for Fatwa – he is trying to engage in a debate! However, it is NOT an
intellectual debate because:
1. For Muslims there are many forums & 80% our media is in FOREFRONT
to project their interests & represent their view points.
2. For OBC & SC, 63 years have gone by, except for their leaders
becoming Zillionaires, NO REAL improvements have been seen in their
lives. Many CMs ruled for long time (Laloo, Karunanadhi, Mulayam,
Mayawathi etc). Same is true of Muslims (all Bollywood big guns are
Muslims – do they donate any charity to good Muslim organizations?)
Money also comes from Gulf employed Muslims.
3. My wife should be writing this – but she is BUSY listening to
Bollywood songs, so SPIRITED men like me have to take up the cause of
WOMEN!
4. Most important – Laloo has commented – women's bill OVER his dead
body – such GOLDEN oppertunity may NEVER again come in our life times,
so why NOT KILL TWO wonderful birds with one STONE. Don't even THINK –
JUST go for the KILL by voting BLINDLY for women's bill!

n s parameswaran says:
March 15, 2010 at 9:54 am
The people who call themselves secular, liberal and progressive are
the people who ask for communal reservation for Muslims under the garb
of 'Monorities'. . When they practice 'Communalism' it is called
'Progressive Politics', and when Hindus object to it they are labelled
'Communal'.

If muslims are backward then the reason is they want to be backward.
They never started or took admission in schools and colleges and
instead started "madarassa', learnt Quaran by rote. Now how can they
get jobs which such 'UN"Qualifications. Then they blackmail the
majority with cries of injustice and opression. Spineless parties like
Congress, Left and Opportunistic and unprincipled parties like RJD,
SP, DMK, AIADMK, JD(Secular), Left and the whole bandwagon of seculars
have fallen for this blackmail and ruined India.

MUSLIMS SHOULD NEVER EVER BE GIVEN RESERVATION UNDER ANY
CIRCUMSTANCES.

Tanuj says:
March 15, 2010 at 12:07 pm
The britishers used seperate electorate to divide & rule. By giving
reservation based on religion we would be doing the same. Who stops a
party to give a ticket to a muslim lady from one of the reserved
seats?
I think it is a landmark bill and should be supported by all.

Gurmeet says:
March 15, 2010 at 1:15 pm
I think this bill will prove to be a boon for all women, but
especially for Muslim women. Representation of Muslim women has so far
been very weak. When one-third of the seats are reserved for women, a
substantial number of muslim majority constituency will have to elect
a woman. There is an excellent chance that those constituencies shall
be represented by Muslim women. It is also likely that these women
will not be the burka or naquab clad women, who are oppressed by the
fundamentalists in the Muslim society, but would be more socially
progressive and liberated from the dogmas. This is likely because the
arduous task of reaching and engaging with the electorate will be so
much easier for the progressive Muslim women. These women will serve
as the role model of rest of the young women in Muslim society, which
will ultimately be a good thing both for the Muslims and therefore for
India.

Vini says:
March 15, 2010 at 2:57 pm
The headline of this post should be: Kill Bill, for men's sake. After
all, all the rhetoric we have heard in recent days about the bill
being a threat to parliamentary democracy, equality… blah, blah,
blah…. including this blogpost… is simply a smokescreen to hide the
truth that no man wants to be caught admitting: That men, don't want
to share power with women.

Yes the Bill has flaws, but those flaws can be addressed without
killing the Bill.

What I want to say here is that I take extreme offense at the use of
the word 'spanking' to trivialize a serious issue like domestic
violence. Do you have any idea what domestic violence is? Perhaps not.
That's why you treat it so flippantly.

As for the rest of the blog, it is all conjecture. You and all the
doomsayers don't know if this bill will work till it is implemented.
It might just. And forget that old argument that it will be taken over
by elite women. So far it's been elite men in charge.. so what's wrong
with elite women having a go?

As for the problems of revolving quota that you bring up as the Bill's
most serious flaw, I think you can argue the other way too. That is,
MPs from reserved constituencies will work extra hard in the reserved
constituency to ensure that they get a ticket when the seat is not
reserved any more because of the good work they would have hopefully
done.

Ziauddin Shafi says:
March 15, 2010 at 6:59 pm
The simple fact is that, if you want to prevent a civil war in our
country, you will have to simply amend it and incorporate all the
demands that are being raised here. No, this is not a threat – nobody
can threaten a civil war damn it, this is just a forecast of shape of
things to come. Maoists on the rampage, Yadavs fully agitated, Muslims
further discriminated against and lesser represented in the power
share, Dalits more oppressed than before – and the high caste hindus
more getting more power in the process. This is a sure formula of
inciting a civil war – thank you congress, bjp and cpim – you are
about to do something which china, usa, europe & pakistan would have
loved to do – have a great civil war in india so that it receds back
to the middle ages – then it would be easier for the buccanneers of
the khyber to get in and set up shop. India had always suffered due to
the high caste hindus throughout its history – and alas would continue
to do so because of them.

S Singh Reply:

March 15th, 2010 at 8:45 pm

Ziauddin

Nice "hope"!

Believe me, your hope will not happen. India is beyond that.
Skirmishes will be there, appeasing politicians will continue to
appease, country will progress at a rate less than what it could have.
A growing India uplifts all; the huge spending govt does on
disadvantaged will only grow.

If 10% of so called high caste Hindus control the whole India, one
should congratulate them on their skills.

Have you tabulated the "classification" of the top 100 richest
Indians ? Do you know how many Brahmins are in the richest 100? It is
4.

sanjeev says:
March 15, 2010 at 7:06 pm
@ Zia
i could guess that Zia will ultimately turn to his muslim
reservation.

You need a serious therapy of "reverse brainwashing"

I f these skull caps and three quarter pyajama's got reservation then
this will be step towards another Pakistan in the making. Remember the
process started this way in 1909…Morley Minto Reforms

SKS Mumbai says:
March 15, 2010 at 9:31 pm
'The Bill is anti-minority, anti-backwards, and both anti-women and
anti-men'

If we exclude the women and men, it would read like a pre-partition
Muslim League's pamphlet.

'Framers of the Constitution — —- —– save for time-bound reservation
for Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes to enable them to overcome
disadvantages.'

Except for the rotation part (clearly a problem), how is current bill
different from above?

'The principal arguments against it were that such rights were based
on caste and religion and religion-based separate electorates had been
the immediate trigger for Partition'

Just immediate trigger? Or the whole basis?
Zia sahab, are you suggesting that proportional representation was the
way to go? We thought that all those wanted proportional (actually
more than proportinal with a veto as well) representation crossed over
in 1947.

'With the Muslim League and the Sikh Panthic Party in disarray, Muslim
and Sikh acquiescence on reversing minority safeguards was ultimately
secured'

Indeed, after Mr Jinnah and Muslim League left India in 1947, Muslims
of India had nobody to represent them, exactly as Mr Jinnah had
insisted all along. Our Hindu Communal Leaders foolishly questioned Mr
Jinnah's premise. (For Mr Jinnah and ML, Hindu communalism was
represented by Gandhi, Nehru and congress, rarely did they talk of
Hindu Mahasabha)

'In fact, parties like Rashtriya Janata Dal, the Samajwadi Party and
Muslim organizations have demanded a quota-within-quota in the women's
reservation'

Yup, the 'Strongest Argument' against the bill.

Mr Zia's Final Conclusions:
Congress acted dumb, Left dumber.
The Bill is a victory for Hindutva driven Bramhin-Bania combine!!
Do we need any other reason to oppose the Bill?

Rajeev says:
March 16, 2010 at 1:17 am
The best thing will be to merge India with pakistan and name is
Greater pakistan. Gives muslims like Zia 100% reservation with right
to kill or convert non-muslims especially hindus.

Anil says:
March 16, 2010 at 1:45 am
One participant's gains can come only from another's equivalent
losses. It seeks to pay Paul by robbing Peter

Do you have same sentiments in matters of reservation for muslims..

Hypocricy at its very best

Zia Haq Reply:

March 16th, 2010 at 5:52 pm

Unfortunately, of late, I haven't been able to read up on the comments/
invectives that follow because of lack of time.

On your charge of hypocricy: What I said is up here for you to read
again. But Here's what I didn't say anywhere: that Muslims should get
separate electorates (something simply out of question) or political
reservation. On the contrary, I said: "Though ideally, the highest
elected forum should be able to be free from all reservations, a quota
that specifically addresses maginalised women would have been
pragmatic." What does this tell you?

Even so, I am not against political reservation for women per se, but
not in the current form. I would much rather have political parties
give nomination to the extent of 33 per cent. Who or what stops them.
And please understand, I do not advcoate any quota on the basis of
homogeneity. I said so: "Homogeneity is a stupid idea when applied to
assess communities horizontally. Not all women, like Muslims, are
equally disadvantaged or privileged." Therefore, I will never advocate
quota for all Muslims.

Understand that before I decide to write or take a position, I do
consider all relevant issues before arriving at an informed decision
and not simply think with a Muslim hat on. The Bill, in its current
form, suffers from inherent flaws. Its bearing on representations of
minority is one such flaw, among others. It is a given that Muslim
representation will be severely affected. And therefore it is a
legitimate concern. Moreover, blocking such a huge number of seats for
women in this way — I have argued — legitimises the demand for a quota
within quota for backward women, which will include Muslims, OBCs etc.
Nobody is even talking about Muslim political reservation. it's not
required, not recommended and not demanded. The demand is for
political representation, not reservation.

Anil says:
March 16, 2010 at 1:48 am
NO muslim reservation in legislation.. we do not want start of another
pakistan movemenet.. this is how it all started in past..

Anil says:
March 16, 2010 at 2:08 am
See the thuggery of parties sekeing quota withitn quota.. these people
will make you belive as if they have bene emporing the women i within
their community caste only the general category women have faced
dicrmination. But fact is noone acroos the party caste creed lines
have bene empowering women. There is a common threat fo discrimantion
against women by their respective male folks.. Who stops these idiots
shouting for quota within quota from giving tickets to more and more
muslim and backward and sc/st and what nto women.

One fo the guy was saying woman; reseervation will dilute sc/st
reservation as if sc/st woman are nto sc/st.

These thuigs who support reservation when it's conveneint to them are
suddenly parooting reservation pays peter by robbing paul..

Pahle ye akal nahin aai thi

ramesh says:
March 16, 2010 at 10:43 am
The mother of all the resavations is the resv. the muslims are allowed
tobe the resident non indians,

Rajeev Reply:

March 16th, 2010 at 9:47 pm

Good one. We have 150 million pakistanis living in India barring
handful.

SKS Mumbai says:
March 17, 2010 at 9:14 pm
@Zia
@Zia
'I didn't say anywhere: that Muslims should get separate electorates
(something simply out of question) or political reservation'

What you said was this: Constituent Assembly would have approved
separate electorates (is that same as Minority safeguards?) but for:
1. fresh memory of partition, which made the nationalist arguments;
particularly effective, and/or

2. a weakened Muslim League (I omit Sikh part here); and/or

3. abstention by key Muslim leaders.

Of course, that does not mean that you wanted 'separate electorates'
or 'political reservation' for Muslims?

Nor does your following statement mean so:

'If the women's Bill is passed in its current form, then a clear case
emerges for compensatory minority safeguards to be reactivated, not
'separate electorates' but 'reserved seats'

Am I missing something?
For e.g. the difference between 'reserved seats' and 'political
reservation'?
Or the similarity between
'compensatory' and 'only for marginalised'?

Ashish Reply:

March 18th, 2010 at 10:30 am

@SKS
It has been established before that Zia resorts to generalities when
specifics are called for.. at any rate, he has his own idioms and
syntaxes. Deliberately vague or vaguely deliberate, a compendium of
Zia-isms will be a best-seller.
As for your question: am I missing something? well, yes. You are. You
are missing the point of this blog. The sole function of this blog is
to generate controversy by ill-advised and poorly researched comments
and boost eyeballs.. the visit stats look good on account of Zia,
Vinod Sharma et al.. they are stars.

Rajeev says:
March 18, 2010 at 1:33 am
All the muslims who are asking for reservation on caste basis should
revert back to Hinduism.
The reservation for SC/ST/OBC was introduced to fight casteism in
HINDU society. It was for HINDUS who were at the bottom of their
SOCIETY. There were many who chose to become muslims/xtians to escape
HINDU casteism. Now if they want to come out of caste opression, they
need to revert back to hinduism.

In the word of Shri Kancha Illiah "islam and xtianity are democratic
religion" so there is no chance of casteism being part of muslim/xtian
socities.

Rajeev says:
March 18, 2010 at 9:24 pm
Simple solutions-

1. If you are muslim and want reservation on caste, come back to caste
system in Hinduism and avail the reservation.

2. If you are muslim and want reservation on caste but don't want to
revert to Hinduism, please pack your bags and go back to pakistan
where you guys have 100% reservation.

http://blogs.hindustantimes.com/they-call-me-muslim/2010/03/14/kill-bill-for-men%e2%80%99s-and-women%e2%80%99s-sake/#more-144

Budgeting for minorities

Although historically aware of its disadvantaged sections and their
special needs, India has decisively switched from 'appeasing' Muslims
— its largest minority — to budgeting for them.

Two things in recent years have helped institutionalise minority
budgeting. One is the creation of a minority affairs ministry by the
Congress-led UPA government in 2004 and, as a result, yearly budgetary
allocations made to it.Two, a high-level government survey in November
2006 that proved disadvantages faced by Muslims, followed up with
another one that recommended reservations.

Till now, an unproductive Hajj subsidy worth Rs 390 crore — which goes
in bankrolling the pilgrimage through discounted airfare — had been
the flagship largesse.

Even though government-funded religious travel is not unique to
Muslims, the Hajj subsidy has often been singled out as unfair.

The Centre underwrites a part of the travel costs of the annual Hindu
pilgrimage to Kailash Mansarovar in Tibet, the abode of the Hindu god
Shiva.

Karnataka's Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) government proposes
concessional Hindu pilgrimages to the temples of Udupi, Dharmasthala
and Saudatti in the southern Indian state.

In neighbouring Andhra Pradesh, the Congress party-led government
subsidises the cost of travel for Christians visiting Jerusalem in
Israel and Bethlehem in Palestinian Authority. A subsidy is also being
planned, according to media reports, for Manasarovar Yatra in China.

Why should government fund religious jaunts? Either because we are a
welfare state unlike any other or it is a game of votes. Perhaps,
both.

Deploying tax revenues for affordable healthcare, education and
employment may be good economics but in an ancient holy land,
spiritual well being seems to deserve importance too. But competing
populism has definitely crept into it.

Show me an economically underprivileged Hindu who will find fault with
government help to make a dip in the holy Ganges a reality? Or a
Muslim quibbling over a lifetime visit to Mecca, courtesy government
help?

However, there is a growing demand from Muslims themselves for the
Hajj subsidy to be scrapped. While it gives Air India 150,000 assured
passengers every year (that's the total number of seats on all Indian
carriers criss-crossing the country on any given day), helping it keep
afloat, the grant has been turned into a stick to beat Muslims with.
No Muslim asked for it in the first place.

Muslims are now calling for global and national open bids: whoever
offers the cheapest tickets gets to fly away with 150,000 prize
passengers. Fair enough.

"If the Hajj subsidy is withdrawn, it won't hurt us. If scholarship
are cut, that would," Asaduddin Owaisi, Hyderabad MP from the All
India Majlis-eIttehadul Muslimeen party, told the Hindustan Times last
year.

There is a less obvious side to the Hajj subsidy. The subsidy itself
seems responsible for Muslim backwardness, given that it has enabled
governments to use it as a signature grant and avoid more basic
financial interventions.

However, the recognition that minorities can be predisposed to
experiencing disadvantages due to their numerical inferiority itself
has made planning and budgeting for them an integral part of most
developed countries.

Almost all of Europe and the US make special allocations of one type
or the other for their minorities.

Why do Indian Muslims need a helping hand?

The country's Muslim population is 150 millions, making it the state
with the second-largest Muslim population, after Indonesia. Indian
Muslims experience serious disadvantages, low literacy and high
poverty rates.

Their literacy rates are well below the national average, while
poverty rates are only slightly higher than low-caste Hindus,
according to the November 2006 Sachar Committee report.

Muslims, mostly Sunnis, make up 13.4% of India's population, yet hold
fewer than 5% of government posts and make up only 4% of
undergraduates in universities. The report also found that, despite
being self-employed at a far higher rate, Muslims trail other groups
in terms of access to credit.

Yet, they can influence elections, using their voting power to extract
concessions from parties who woo them.

Muslims are not uniformly disadvantaged. Those in south and west India
have been historically wealthier. In the north, Muslims were thrust
into abject poverty at once when their wealthier counterparts left for
Pakistan during the 1947 Partition.

Muslims in rural areas are less poor than in urban areas, where their
poverty rate of 38 percent is higher than any other population's,
including low-caste Hindus.

Although no formal Muslim caste system exists, three groups of Indian
Muslims –ashraf, ajlaf, and arzal — indeed function as such. More
correctly, there is definitely a Muslim class system, if not a caste
system.

The ashrafs, thought to be of Arab ancestry, form the upper class
among Muslims, while the ajlafs are thought to be previously Hindus
who converted to Islam to escape the Hindu caste system. A third
group, the arzals, correlates to the lowest caste among Hindus.

The Sachar Report has provided exhaustive data on socio-economic
conditions of Muslims.

The Sachar report has been controversial, not just for highlighting
Muslim marginalisation but also because of its very mandate. Hindu
nationalists — led by the BJP — criticized the report, tainting it
with an old brush –- that of appeasement.

While it offers clear proof of Muslim marginalisation, there have been
debates about how to combat Muslim unemployment rates. The BJP is
averse to solutions focusing directly on Muslims but would prefer
general poverty alleviation.

All government outlays to pull a community out of backwardness can
look like appeasement, given the zeal for competing interests of
political leaders vying for power.

Has budgeting helped?

India's 2010-11 budget has given 50% higher allocation to the minority
affairs ministry — up from Rs 1,740 crore to Rs 2,600 crore.

Cash flow to minorities — from bank loans to scholarships — peaked
during 2008-09, according to government data, as Muslims appeared to
be slowly overcoming a strong bias of banks in lending.

Public sector banks, which would turn down Muslim loan applicants
because they were considered "credit risk groups", have disbursed a
staggering Rs 82,864 crore in loans to minorities during 2008-09.

Since the Reserve Bank has now turned its focus to 121 backward
minority districts with high Muslim population, as identified by the
minority affairs ministry, Muslims got a chunky pie of the credit
share.

Banks now have to compulsorily service Muslims in backward areas after
the Reserve Bank added minorities to its list of other priority
lending sectors, like agriculture and small-scale businesses in July
2007.

"We will be able to see the results shortly if not immediately,"
Planning Commission member Syeda Saiyidain Hameed, who heads the
minority sector, says.

Cash constraints are now easing, with banks achieving lending targets
set for minorities. In 2008-09, the Reserve Bank's target was that 13%
of loans under priority sector lending should go to minorities and
banks were able to lend 12.4%. This was better than 2007-08, when the
target was 10.6% and actual sanctions 9.6%. Priority sector lending
accounts for 40 per cent of total loans, according to the federal
Reserve Bank of India norms.

Banks also opened 524 branches in minority concentration districts in
2009 and nearly 6-lakh minority students got scholarships. In 2008,
523 branches were set up.

The UPA government has earmarked a whopping Rs 7,000 crore for
minority welfare under the 11th Five Year Plan that concludes in 2012.

The government now plans to install national-level independent
monitors to track back how Rs 3,780 are being spent for minority
welfare under the "flagship multi-sectoral development programme", in
which lawmakers will have a say for the first time.

The multi-sectoral programme, which helps set up anything from a
school to a water pump, applies to 90 districts countrywide where
minorities make up more than 25 per cent of the population and lag
behind significantly on crucial socio-economic parameters.

The government's approach is such that creation of assets in these
districts should also benefit the majority communities as well. UP,
Assam and Bihar have the largest number of minority districts, with
21, 12 and 6 districts respectively.

These districts were selected on the basis of 10 indicators, ranging
from literacy to the number of inoculated children.

The government hopes evaluating schemes with a fine-toothed comb and
involving area MPs, an idea of minority affairs minister Salman
Khurshid, are moves that would customise the multi-sectoral scheme.

The government feels a quick appraisal is important to ensure rapid
implementation of schemes. "These national-level independent monitors
will report back two things: are schemes being implemented in the
right way and right place, according to Khrushid.

The scheme, in its second stage now, is also called being called a top-
up phase because money from the minority affairs will be now poured
into schemes of other ministries so that minorities benefit.

The Planning Commission is also evaluating massive spending on
minority welfare as it prepares for mid-term appraisal of the 11th
Five-Year Plan.

Planning Commission member Hameed is set to personally travel to five
regions for first-hand feedback from beneficiaries.

Lessons from Congressional Black Caucus

Some historic measures for minority welfare, including an exclusive
ministry, helped the Congress sail through the last general elections
for a second term in power.

However, Muslim lawmakers, whose numbers are dwindling over time, have
seldom used parliamentary mechanisms creatively to ensure Muslims get
a fair deal. A problem with Muslim leadership is that political
leadership has often overlapped with religious leadership.

Divided along sharp party lines, India's Muslim lawmakers seldom get a
chance to work in unison. However, they could take a leaf out of the
Congressional Black Caucus.

The Caucus helped highlight the plight of US minorities with a two-
step process: by the congressional budget process called the Humphrey-
Hawkins debate and by moving alternate budget resolutions.

The struggle of minorities in the US helped them integrate into
society and as their clout grew, Congress became more responsive to
their needs. Geographical concentrations of some minorities in the US
have led to their greater representation, though it is far behind
their share of the population.

In the 2001-2003 Congress, for instance, African-Americans comprised
12 percent of the population, but just 8.3% of the House members;
Hispanics made up 13 % of the population and just 4.4 % of the House;
and women represented 51 % of the population but just 13.6% of the
House, and 13% of the Senate.

America's annual budget project to thrash out budgetary solutions to
address backwardness of minorities is a lesson for both Indian
minority lawmakers and those opposed to minority-specific solutions,
like the BJP.

A beginning has been made but just a fraction achieved. After all,
every change for the better begins with a small minority.

(9 votes, average: 4.11 out of 5)

Posted by Zia Haq on Sunday, February 28, 2010 at 11:09 pm

102 Responses to "Budgeting for minorities"

sanjeev says:
March 1, 2010 at 1:40 am
Mullah Zia

"The Centre underwrites a part of the travel costs of the annual Hindu
pilgrimage to Kailash Mansarovar in Tibet, the abode of the Hindu god
Shiva "

This is less of a pilgrimage and more of india's strategic and
geopolitical game plan to counter the chinese arguments of Arunachal
being historically part of China. and more imporatantly a tradition
which has been part ofindian civilzation.

Further this is a trekking expedition and not any luxury trip by an
aeroplane.which your ilk makes at taxpayers money.

I hope brainwashed mullahs like you might be aware that govt of India
also promote trekking to high altitude areas…through Indian
Mountaineering Federation (IMF). I myself has been part of some IMF
funded trekking expeditions to himalayas.

So in that way its not any exclusive and out of turn activity.

Further this yatra is open to all Indian citizens cutting across
religious lines…but Haj is not.

So don't show your ignorance…rather write something about islamophobia

Mitra Reply:

March 1st, 2010 at 11:10 am

Hey Sanjeev,
Whatever excuses and arguments you come up with, it is a fact that
Govt. of India subsidizes a Hindu pilgrimage just as it does for
Mulsims and Christians. Nowhere does the Govt. say they do it for
strategic reasons- and it is a rather absurd argument. So cool down
and try to control your hatred. Aren't you guys always shouting about
how tolerant Hindus and Hinduism are? There is no way to infer that
from your churlish behavior! Learn to give respect to people and
debate like a civilized educated man- even when you keep making stupid
arguments. Jai Hind!

RE Reply:

March 6th, 2010 at 3:30 pm

How can you expect an uncivilized Hindu terrorist to react when
confronted with facts? All I've seen on this blog, is people preaching
hatred and violence bypassing all logic and sense. None of their
comments make sense and I repeat NONE. But rhetoric is what helps them
feel superior, else they are cowed down by the uneducated minority so
easily. Let them have the comfort of the rhetoric and shameless
ignorance. Ignorance is bliss ya know?

RE Reply:

March 6th, 2010 at 3:45 pm

@Pandit sanjeev

"The Centre underwrites a part of the travel costs of the annual Hindu
pilgrimage to Kailash Mansarovar in Tibet, the abode of the Hindu god
Shiva " ~~~> FACT

"This is less of a pilgrimage and more of india's strategic and
geopolitical game plan to counter the chinese arguments of Arunachal
being historically part of China" ~~~~>FICTION …

"…and more imporatantly a tradition which has been part ofindian
civilzation" ~~~> Is that all you think about your own culture and
religion? Hang your head in shame. I pity you.

"Further this is a trekking expedition and not any luxury trip by an
aeroplane.which your ilk makes at taxpayers money."

Does that make it a FREE expedition? The Government employs choppers
for your "safety" in the mountains, massive policing arrangements for
the crowd and at times they even arrange for fake shivlings (LMAO)
when you "God" fails to appear Will you please tell me who funds
these costs? IMO It is the taxpayers money and that includes Muslims
of this country. If you are so averse to Muslims, why don't you shun
government spending? Lets just take an example – India's third largest
software exporter Wipro is held by a Muslim billionaire. Over a lakh
of people are employed by the company and they pay huge taxes to this
government every year. Why don't you ask your Hindu brethren to stop
taking up jobs in Wipro and making a living out of it? The tax they
pay is also funded by that very same Muslim -held company. Do you need
more examples? OK have you heard of the companies – Cipla, Wockhardt ,
Himalaya heath Care are only to name a few of them. What about the
crores of taxes, the "Khans' of Bollywood pay to this Government and
the revenue that their movies generate directly or indirectly ( though
people employed and associated with the movies) Why would you like to
go on a "holy" trip on Muslim money? Should'nt you shun the Government
subsidy?

"I hope brainwashed mullahs like you might be aware that govt of India
also promote trekking to high altitude areas…through Indian
Mountaineering Federation (IMF). I myself has been part of some IMF
funded trekking expeditions to himalayas. So in that way its not any
exclusive and out f turn activity."

So ? Doesn't make sense honey! Try harder next time and come up with
some logic, not brain-dead arguments.

"Further this yatra is open to all Indian citizens cutting across
religious lines…but Haj is not."

LMAO I pity you now!!

"So don't show your ignorance…rather write something about
islamophobia"

Internet Hindus have time and again proudly proved their blissful
ignorance. I'm glad you are just another one of them!

raman says:
March 1, 2010 at 8:24 am
So, they need special budget for them , they need special care from
government otherwise they warn that some of them will turn into
terrorist or help them…..what kind of logic is this………

RE Reply:

March 6th, 2010 at 3:53 pm

No one has argued that they will turn into terrorists if the
government doesn't provide them with a separate budget. After all what
have all the subsequent governments done over all these years? They
have only pushed the minorities ( read Muslims ) to impoverishment and
under-representation without a voice. Anyone who dares speak for
Muslims is labeled a traitor or at best a supporter of Muslim League.
Anything that anyone even promises for Muslims ( let alone fulfill
them) is termed as Muslim Appeasement. How wonderfully naive.

Muslims have lived in ghettos with discrimination over the years in
this country and we don't need any one to make nonsense announcements
for Muslims. We have lived with deprivation and can survive in our own
mumbling ways.

RE Reply:

March 6th, 2010 at 3:57 pm

Oh BTW look what poverty has done to people in the rural areas. Will
you dare call the Maoists terrorists and traitors? The argument
against it is that they are our very own civilians although they can
murder people at will,kill innocents, behead people they hate and rape
and maim women. So what? after all they are Hindu civilians, they've
got every right to be protected in this country. A Muslim on the other
hand is picked up by the police at random without evidence or even
gunned down in cold blood is quickly labeled a terrorist by everyone.
Why make a distinction?

raman Reply:

March 8th, 2010 at 12:51 am

Did I say I sympathize with Maoists, do not assume things…..

RE Reply:

March 9th, 2010 at 3:07 am

No, I never said that. I am only putting across my point.

Ashish Reply:

March 8th, 2010 at 3:37 pm

Dear RE,
the Maoists do not fight on religious grounds; the Indian state's
"war" against them is also "secular".
There is tremendous amount of blood-letting going on in the names of
protecting the rights of the economic underprivileged and the rights
of the state. I have not heard any Maoist (or any CPIML member) make
any invocation to religion.
I am not sure why you think the State treats the Maoists as "Hindu
civilians". Care to explain?

SP Reply:

March 9th, 2010 at 3:34 am

Maoists justify terror as a means of pursuing their goal of
overthrowing the Indian state just because they are poor and the
deprived citizens of this country? Common a very sizable population of
this country is below the poverty line. But the Government won't fight
a war against them because these 'Adivasis' happen to be our 'own'
people although they can engage the armed forces of this
coutry,massacre them at will, abduct ,kill and behead people at will.
A 20 something Muslim guy on the other hand is picked up at random/
even better shot in broad daylight, by the police and branded a
terrorist without even a shred of evidence The News channels hail the
police and the government and all we read is "20 something Islamic
Terrorist has been nabbed who has confessed to all the bombings that
ever happened in the country over the last 10 years". How lame is
that!

Why is there such a discrimination in the treatment between the two? A
terrorist is a terrorist! Be it a Maoist or a certain Pragya Singh
Devi. Why does the mainstream political party come up in defense of
HINDU terror accused or label any muslim ACCUSED to be a terrorist?
The same goes with the Maoists – the Government won't wage a war
against them just because they happen to be Hindus.
Anyone who challenges the state should be an enemy of the
state .Unfortunately that is not true for the Hindus of this country.
They can get away with mass orchestrated murders and live under state
protection. ('92 '02 anyone?) And so is the case with the Maoists.
They are Hindus and by default saintly and hence cannot be treated as
terrorists.

Ashish Reply:

March 10th, 2010 at 12:46 pm

@SP
I will again quote from my post "there is a tremendous amount of
bloodletting going on in the names of protecting the rights of the
economic underprivileged and the rights of the state." I think I make
it clear that Maoists are fighting only in the name of protecting the
rights of the underprivileged.
And, what gives you the idea that the Government is not fighting them?
We can differ on whether it is a "war" or not. But the human rights
activists will certainly not agree with you that the government is
going easy on the Maoists. Unless of course you say that the likes of
Arundhati Roy are basically Hindu zealots and speak for the Maoists
only because they are Hindus.
Let me quote from your reply:

"A 20 something Muslim guy on the other hand is picked up at random/
even better shot in broad daylight, by the police and branded a
terrorist without even a shred of evidence The News channels hail the
police and the government and all we read is "20 something Islamic
Terrorist has been nabbed who has confessed to all the bombings that
ever happened in the country over the last 10 years". How lame is
that!"

You know, this seems to be straight from the alleged situation in the
North-East; where the "war" between the state and the ultras have
resulted in several cases of human rights abuses that should be the
concern of any civilized society. The state of Manipur is a case in
point. May I however point out that the affected populace is not
Muslim in Manipur.

The Indian state is not perfect; far from it. Nor is the Indian
society. But, it is a worthwhile experiment is creating a multi-hued
culture. Thanks to our founding fathers and thanks to the economic
progress unleashed in the last 20 years, the benefits of modern living
are reaching many. If you argue that Muslims face systematic and
systemic discrimination, then you must be prepared to look within and
ask why is it that no other religion in India, including the Sikhs
(even after 1984) have a problem sharing space and prospering in this
country.
Looking at everything through the religious prism makes for noisy
debates but, makes you hostage to "benefactors" like Mamata Banerjee
and Laloo Yadav.

Mitra says:
March 1, 2010 at 11:05 am
Very interesting and informative discussion! Hope you keep monitoring
how well the minority welfare schemes are progressing- this is really
important. It is good we have a decent, honest man Salman Khursheed as
the Minister- politicians like him are relatively rare in India.

sanjeev Reply:

March 1st, 2010 at 5:43 pm

@ Mitra

I can expect such sort of logic from naxal sympathisers like you….
Hope you forgot your bengali ilk got kicked by these so called
discriminated lots on 16 july 1946 (direct action day ).

Wait for some more decades another Pakistan will be demanded from your
home state. The demand will arise from your so called secular and left
ruled state.

Or else i can imagine you have admitted to dhimmi status or else burqa
clad.

Rajeev Reply:

March 2nd, 2010 at 8:05 am

This guy is muslim with hindu last name..just like Bhowmik (saba naqvi
bhaowmik).

sanjeev Reply:

March 2nd, 2010 at 1:54 pm

@ Rajeev

I M sure she is a girl and so brainwashed by so called leftist of
Students Federation of India (SFI).

She haven't been able to come out of the vote bank politics of naxal
sypmathizers of JNU.

Mitra Reply:

March 4th, 2010 at 5:20 pm

I am Hindu and I am not a woman. I won't give you my first name as I
teach in an university and I have a website- I am afraid Hindu
nationalist vandals will try to bother me. I am not a Naxal
sympathizer and thats not what we are discussing. The Naxals are left-
wing extremists and you guys are right-wing extremists- every
patriotic Indian should condemn both equally. The day you guys will
learn to make an actual argument instead of spewing vile hatred and
prejudice, I will be happy to have a discussion.

sanjeev Reply:

March 4th, 2010 at 5:36 pm

@ Mitra

It is you who started labelling someone as sangh parivar or bajrang
bal member

Its welcome that you want positive debate..

Btw other people like me also work for govt organizations.

Nobody has time to bother except those with whom you empathise…hope
you remember the recent karnataka episode over Taslima nasreen article
episode. who resorted to rioting ?

RE Reply:

March 6th, 2010 at 4:13 pm

@Sanjeev pandit.

1. I hope you are not a disgruntled shudra who is not even allowed to
enter the temple by The Brahmins or you did not marry in the same
gotra and were hounded by your own goons. You sound very irked and
disgruntled so can I assume that someone in your family decided to
kill a female child or maybe your wife does not want to put on a
ghoonghat? Is there any reason why you are so pissed off with life?

2. Regarding rioting in Karnataka :

Source : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8544657.stm

"Police say Hindu groups joined the unrest in both places after
Muslims took to the streets. About 50 arrests have been made in
connection with the violence. "

Muslims taking to streets to voice protest against something does not
mean they were rioting but as usual, people don't have the guts to
accept the truth in this country. I am sure they did not pull you out
of you house and mob you down like the goons at RSS do under state
protection. Every citizen has the legitimate right to voice his/her
opinion but the fact of the matter is Hindu cowards started a riot.
Television images on "Times Now" , a clearly pro- hindutva ,pro- BJP ,
pro- right wing channel showed images of people with ORANGE flags with
"OM" inscribed on them. Now I can bet they were not Muslims. Secondly,
the Ram Sene called a bandh the very next day! WOW how did the entire
protest affect those cowards? Karnataka is BJP ruled so people have
the liberty to start a riot and get away with it just like Gujarat.
The Muslims are the ones who will be labeled terrorists any which way.

At least have the guts to accept the truth in public MORON

perpetual.dilettante says:
March 1, 2010 at 2:29 pm
Since you cite the government subsidies for the pilgrimage to Kailash
Mansorovar as a point to counter the annual Haj subsidies, numbers
around what the total outlay for the project is would have been
interesting for a fair comparison. Do not quite agree with your point
that the Muslims had not asked for the subsidies. The fact remains
that there were demands from certain quarters from within the
community for this step. Obviously the point whether or not they
represented the true sentiments of the community can well be debated.

However, your point around the government not subsidizing religious
pursuits is well taken. It needs to be applied irrespective of
religious affiliations of the vote banks, pressure groups, etc.
However, there is a bigger question here around the value of
affirmative action, specially in context of religious segments. That
is a point worth debating as well

Gopi Thomas says:
March 1, 2010 at 2:35 pm
If money would have solved Muslim "backwardness" , countries like KSA
would be producing qualified engineers and journalists and teachers
leave alone world class scientists. They recently opened a "world
class" university; minister E Ahmed represented India in the
inauguration ceremony – 80% of the student body was foreign students
whom they had 'bought" with lucrative scholarships. A student from
Minnesota stated that he will have to spend $20,000 in a state Univ in
Minnesota; now he gets paid $20,000 affter all the expenses; he did
not know how long he could last there in KSA because the public
outside the walls of the Univ do not want a Univ there.

Why is Pakistan so backward with madrasites killing left and right,
with nosystem to speak of other than a rot corrupt military system,
if, as the author says "elite' Muslims migrated to Pakistan.

Hyderabad (Telengana) was under Nizam rule for yearsa nd years. Why
are Muslims educationally so backward there?

Why iin Kerala they are still backward educationally (although they
are significantly better compared to all India Muslim average)? And a
smaller minority there, Christians, excelled in education,
industriousness, contributions..

The author talks about bank loans. Muslims are promoting "Islamic
Bank" as the right way of banking. I have seen Muslim students being
advised on some of their "exclusive" sites not to seek student loan,
and to take lower level job rather than pursuing higher studies with
student loans.

We have to bring all up to participate in a vibrant, growing India.
Money, if at all, is only a very small part of the equation. It is
attitudes, entrenched belief systems, uncompromising stickiness to a
set of rules formed in 650 when conditions were different, learning
Arabic (instead of English) etc etc. If these do not change, whatever
money is allocated, we will still have this dialogue of backwardness
fifty years from now, 100 years from now.

RE Reply:

March 6th, 2010 at 4:17 pm

Your arguments are best very naive and you obviously know that. If you
still need an explanation, I'm ready to debate

sanjeev says:
March 1, 2010 at 5:55 pm
@ Gopi

Govt should resort to following Measures for development of muslims

1. Sharia laws
2. Islamic banking
3 Education only through madrasa: this should include courses on
geography and hisory of saudi arabia, science based on quran, arabic
language
4. Compulsory pilgrimage for all muslims to Haj
5. Freedom to kill as many as infidels as they wish so that they can
achieve ultimate aim: jannat with hooris

I think then they can have proper development of their personality as
well as material progress

Ziauddin Shafi says:
March 1, 2010 at 6:57 pm
Muslims of Hyderabad were never backward during the Nizam's rule.
Since the last 30 years or so, the criminal nexus between MIM and the
Congress, who treat the Hyderabadi Muslims as their vote bank, have
deliberately worked against the education of Muslims in the city. So
much so that government schols functioning there do not have teaching
staff, water, electricity and toilets – forcing poor students to drop
out. Government-funded Urdu medium schools are in the worst possible
conditions – unbelievable is the word. Despite all these Muslim
traitors and "secular congress" traitors, the Muslims of Hyderabad and
Telangana are struggling to find their feet. The northern Indian
Muslims are comparatively better off – they have leaders like Salman
Khursheed and Sayyida who are sincere, honest and hard-working. Hope
they also come down to Telangana & Hderabad to look into the affairs
here.

Shoeb K Reply:

March 1st, 2010 at 11:19 pm

@Shafi

Are you implying that there was a "conspiracy" to deprive Hyderabad
Muslim students of education? Are you saying that Muslims in Hyd were
highly educated during Nizam rule and 30 years after independence, and
then due to misadministration or stupidity or conspiracy of leaders,
the education started going down???

How do other people (including the so called most backward DAaits
among us) get educated? Sam Pitroda, the telecom architect of India,
came from a Dalit background. Modern india has lakhs of stories like
that.

You may be right that some Muslim eladers and congress leaders
coluded. At the end of the day, our community has to look into
ourselves — are we doing right? Are we giving emphasis to education,
like other communities are giving? Or, are we satisfied iwth menial
trading jobs? Do w e want our daughters get educated and working and
standing on their feet? Do we give emphasis to readinga nd writing (at
a basic level as well as at a literary level)? Arent most of our
people victims of mullahs and maulavis, this way or no way? Do many of
us really interact with otehr religious members in an intimate way?
Unless we sort out these, we will always be blaming some others and
not doing the right thing.

Ashish Reply:

March 2nd, 2010 at 3:50 pm

@ Shoeb K,
till today I did not know that Sam Pitroda came from a Dalit family; I
suspect very few others on this blog did either.
The great thing is, we don't know and we don't care. It is enough for
us that Sam Pitroda is what he is, a visionary with the gumption to
get things done.
Is Azim Premji a Muslim? Well, yes. Is he an example? Of course. Is he
an example only for Muslims?

" Modern india has lakhs of stories like that." .. yes, and thank you
for making this simple statement.

Let's worry about evolving a "post-religious" identity. We must.
The questions you raise are not limited to Muslims; I think the
Muslims as a community can benefit by making common cause with the
poor Hindus/ Jains/ Christians and demand that the government deliver
on education, women's rights and childrens' health and nutrition. Of
course, the community must play its part in ensuring that religion is
quoted as an argument to stymie those initiatives.
@Ziauddin Shafi I think you are not informed about the sorry state of
affairs in the northern part of the country. The lack of leadership
that you talk about, is even more pronounced in North and it shows up
in all the indices.

UI Reply:

March 6th, 2010 at 4:37 pm

@Shoeb K Reply:

"Are you implying that there was a "conspiracy" to deprive Hyderabad
Muslim students of education? "

Why only in Hyderabad, look at the vitriol everyone spewed when there
was a proposal to set up a branch of AMU in Murshidabad, West Bengal.
AMU may not be an Oxford but education surely will help the most
deprived and the backward. Do you think it was fair to unnecessarily
criticize the setting up of a branch of AMU? You know what, you need
to get out of you comfort zone to see what people have done to Muslims
in this country. I am an engineer and I've seen the nasty face of
educators at every stage of my school/university. I was always singled
out because I was the only Muslim in the class who topped exams year
after year. It is exactly things like these that make people cringe
and say that they do. Accept the fact that there has been a targetted
marginalization of Muslim in this country

"How do other people (including the so called most backward DAaits
among us) get educated? Sam Pitroda, the telecom architect of India,
came from a Dalit background. Modern india has lakhs of stories like
that."

Have you ever heard of something called reservations? When the most un-
deserving candidates are given preferences in places that matter, what
do you expect in this country? Abolish all forms of reservations or
apply them equally for ALL economically backward sections of the
society. Only then you will get a clear idea of what the reality is.

"You may be right that some Muslim eladers and congress leaders
coluded. At the end of the day, our community has to look into
ourselves — are we doing right? Are we giving emphasis to education,
like other communities are giving? Or, are we satisfied iwth menial
trading jobs? Do w e want our daughters get educated and working and
standing on their feet? Do we give emphasis to readinga nd writing (at
a basic level as well as at a literary level)? Arent most of our
people victims of mullahs and maulavis, this way or no way? Do many of
us really interact with otehr religious members in an intimate way?
Unless we sort out these, we will always be blaming some others and
not doing the right thing."

You must be kidding my dear! You seriously must be kidding me! Talking
about things from the comfort of your home with a laptop in front of
you is something different than the stark poverty and alienation that
Muslims face in this country. Get out of the 5-6 Urban cities for
God's sake. You cannot expect anyone to get a decent education unless
he is lucky like me or you, when there is abject poverty , when people
can hardly make ends meet if at all. I've seen most Muslims living in
ghettos even in so called urban cities where there is hardly a decent
school in the vicinity and you talk about education? Have you ever
wondered why Muslims are discriminated when it comes to getting a
rented house in a Hindu locality?

You talk about the status of women in our society( are you seriously a
Muslim or just using a Muslim name? )

"Do w e want our daughters get educated and working and standing on
their feet?"
Seriously? Any and every educated family that I know of and some very
poor families insist on their daughters going to school to get an
education. Esp when it comes to urban areas, people are more open to
allowing women to work. You seriously must be kidding me or you are
very detached from the society !!

"Arent most of our people victims of mullahs and maulavis, this way or
no way?"

Again you are making sweeping generalizations.

"Do many of us really interact with otehr religious members in an
intimate way?"
What do you mean by an Intimate way? Of course where the majority are
people from other communities, you mingle with them , at school , at
work , in your neighborhood. Living in ghettos does not mean that you
never interact with anyone!

A Banerjee says:
March 1, 2010 at 8:50 pm
The biggest enemy of the muslim community is the muslim himself. There
is an intersting article comparing muslims and jews. Although jews
consist of only 0.02 % of the world's population, they have won 130
Nobel Prizes. Muslims are 20% of the world's population, but have won
only 7 Nobels. I think that Muslims must stop this tirade of being
'minorities' and start working for themselves.

What has number to do with progress? If that be so the case then how
doyou explain the parsis who are doing so well for themselves?

The trouble with Mr Zia and other 'secular' people is that they waste
their time and energy (please see that I am not mentioning 'brains')
brooding over some conspiracy theory or some 'sachar' report instead
of using their time productively. This imacts the minds of young and
gullible muslim youth who start thinking that the entire nation is
against them.

Their was a very nice ad campaign by Idea in which Abhishek Bachhan
says that their will be no community, only mobile numbers. That's the
way it should be…..

UI Reply:

March 6th, 2010 at 4:38 pm

BS

Anil Kumar says:
March 1, 2010 at 10:04 pm
All the religious pilgrimage subsisdy given to non-muslim you have
rehashed is the progeny of haz subsidy.> So muichy noise was made that
various state govts hand have bene forced..

No hindu no chrstian wnats thatsubsisdy only muslims are the one who
always need crutch for anything and everything..

They insisst that they will nto join mainstream education but they
must eb given job..

State of those hindus who confine themselves withitn the scriptute
study are not different we don;t see them cribbing..

If you want job start learnign physics chemistry math those Quran and
hadith reading is nto going to give you job..

RE Reply:

March 6th, 2010 at 4:39 pm

"No hindu no chrstian wnats thatsubsisdy only muslims are the one who
always need crutch for anything and everything..

They insisst that they will nto join mainstream education but they
must eb given job.."

BS

Raju Kurien says:
March 2, 2010 at 6:51 am
The problem with Muslims is that they do not have a proper perspective
or they refuse to accept the reality. For example, This Javed Naqvi, a
reporter for DAwn, (a Pakistani based newspaper) always writes about
how bad it is for Muslims in india; how the goovernment goes on
destroying Muslims.. This guy is a Pakistani, living in and enjoying
Delhi, and he is always venomous about India– May be it is jealousy………

Muslims acn be a "suppressed moinority" (as they think) or an
aggressive contributor to national progress; they have to make that
choice..Government can go on pouring tax payers' money for the so-
called upliftment; but the desire for upliftment and work towards
upliftment has to come from muslims themselves,a nd not througha ny
government programs.

sanjeev Reply:

March 2nd, 2010 at 2:04 pm

@ Raju

This so called peace activist Javed Naqv is no less than Taliban. I
don't know whether he is Indian national ?

Regarding the much admired masiha of muslims Justice Rajendra sachar's
credentials…let me highlight one of high ideological fact : He is so
called human right and civil rights activists of Arundhati Roy gang.
We can seriously doubt his credentials as a judge of supreme court or
distinguished jurist. I thibk this sachar committee is all a game plan
of congress left combine.

Although i personally support the govt should do efforts to educate
and elevate living standard of all deprived citizens irrespective of
minority or majority.

But why only the special emphasis on muslims ?

Why can't they start some programme for all poor people of india and
allocate separate budget targets for this group ?

RE Reply:

March 6th, 2010 at 4:40 pm

Now comes conspiracy theory LMAO

shiuli says:
March 2, 2010 at 2:47 pm
Budgeting for minorities is a much required factor, coz if the gov't
does not we have big brain drain like MF Husain, escaping to Qatar,
taking Citizen-ship there. We have violent clashes over Taslima
Nasreen's outcry; also The Great Khan who has already been awarded
Dato-ship in Malaysia, by calling Pakistan, Our Friendly Neighbour,
may condemn Indian Citizenship one fine day.

RE Reply:

March 6th, 2010 at 4:41 pm

BS

ramesh says:
March 2, 2010 at 3:36 pm
What is holding back the muslims, is their literalism in
religion ,which is evident in all their aspects.Why arent the Parsees,
christians or sikh held back.Because they have opend their minds.
Muslims consider everyone else as jews only, their born enemy.They
should see the broader sense of the message.

RE Reply:

March 6th, 2010 at 4:42 pm

Because all the hatred,vile and discrimination is directed towards the
Muslims , not towards the Parsees , Christians and Sikhs

S Singh Reply:

March 8th, 2010 at 11:41 pm

So, there is no animosity to anybody except Muslims.. Could it be that
something is wrong with Muslism?

Why do Muslims have problem everywhere? Be Philippines, thailand, US,
UK, germanty. denmark, Switzerland — why even in the so called Islamic
countries ((OIC)? Oh why!

SP Reply:

March 9th, 2010 at 3:36 am

The Problem is that you have become so ignorant that you cannot
comprehend History or Geography or Geo-Politics OR probably you don't
wish to. At least don't sound such a moron on the internet.

Ashish Reply:

March 9th, 2010 at 12:07 am

@RE
"Because all the hatred,vile and discrimination is directed towards
the Muslims , not towards the Parsees , Christians and Sikhs"
poor souls! Muslims! No one loves them! Boo, hoo, hoo!

Rajeev says:
March 2, 2010 at 10:35 pm
I think instead of budgeting for minority (read MUSLIMS, MUSLIMS and
MUSLIMS), why don't we send them to their land which we allocated for
them in 1947. The pakistan was meant for muslims of south asia. If you
muslims think, you are not getting fair deal, migrate to the land that
was created for giving muslims fair deal.

Jinnah also demanded same kind of things before partition to safegaurd
the interests of muslims. The then-congress decided not to give in to
Jinnah's loony demands and agreed for partition. Now after 62 years,
we are being forced to agree to Jinnah's demand or face terror ending
into another partition of country. How long can this blackmail go on?

Pl. show me a single country in the world where muslim minority has
outperformed other communities…None… Are all these non-muslims country
guilty of this or is the in the muslims gene to stay and ghetto and be
backward? Do you want Sachar to go in all those countries and then
produce a report implying that muslims are denied opportunities.

There is something very wrong with muslim mindset. They are
themseleves to blame for their misery. Why is that Hindus, jews,
chinese are doing so well in USA? Why is that non-muslims do better
than muslims in almost every country?

These muslims have to come out to their eternal victimhood syndrome.

L Mirza Reply:

March 3rd, 2010 at 12:12 am

@Rajeev

Many things you mention are right. For our country to propel, we need
to bring all into the equation. Youa re absolutely right that the
backwardness of msulims can eb squarely attributed to teh community
itself -its religiosu leaders, political leaders etce tc. A
fundamental aspect of Islam as oppsoed to various other "movements" ,
is that the role of the individual or individuality is suppressed;
hence no major innovations, initiatives, pathbreaking inventions,
methosds etc etc.

Government money will do only little. The mindset has to eb changed;
it ahs to come from within; and lot of forces work against that. It is
a real problem; as Zia mentioned in an earlier blog, muslims have to
handle it themselves.. They should know that the world would not wait
for this, and they will be left further behind if they do not acvt.

The sorry situation is that whether we like it or not, we have to
somehow solve this…

RE Reply:

March 6th, 2010 at 4:43 pm

Why don't you leave this country instead if you hate the people living
in this country? Or is is that you have no place on this earth to call
a Hindu State? haha India is NOT a Hindu country. If you cannot live
here, go and find a place for yourself

Rajeev says:
March 2, 2010 at 10:39 pm
The Sachar report is not an extensive survey but a SAMPLE survey. We
have all seen how surveys have been proved wrong time and again.

The need of the hour for muslims is to shun excessive religiousity,
waste less time curing non-muslims and concentrate on education
followed by search for jobs. You can not be employed on high position
(IPS, IAS, Army etc.) till you get proper education. Even a police
constable in maharashtra police is graduate.

sanjeev Reply:

March 3rd, 2010 at 6:00 pm

@ Rajeev

I seriously doubt credentials of Rajendra sachar. he is an
ideologically indoctrinated person and not neutral, unbiased
researcher.

Just google his name..he has association with People's Union for Civil
Liberties (PUCL)

In the recently arrested Kobad ghandy case his organisation has been
mentioned by delhi police among the naxal sympathisers.

I have personally attended many of the debates and discussions
frequented by this gang of naxal sympathisers like Gautam Navlakha,
Achin Vinayak, DSU, etc. their views clealry state that they are
chinese protege and they aim to bring china type revolution in india.

I seriously doubt how can such a person was appointed chairman of such
a committee.

RE Reply:

March 6th, 2010 at 4:44 pm

You need some money for education which they have been deprived of
over the years

Shoeb K Reply:

March 6th, 2010 at 6:20 pm

RE

So you are saying that somehow government "deprived " them of
education, and now have to give them money for education??

Do you believe that our people (I assume you are a muslim) give utmost
importance to education like other commun ities? Even Baniya children
grow up reciting "vidya dhan sarv dhanal pradhan".. What is our
children taught in Madrasi??

RE Reply:

March 9th, 2010 at 4:05 am

No one is begging for alms here. It's only the Hindus who beg for
Money & Jobs and you will keep begging for your lives. Don't worry the
Government won't take away your reservations any soon. You can
obviously beg for even more.
If you are going to tell me that ^%$^% like Mulayam Shi% and people
like him demand BS for Muslims, I pity you and your ignorance of the
reality of this country.

Secondly, you must be naive to think that people think in terms of
community when it comes to education. You must be so out of this world
my HINDU brother! (Using a Muslim name does not make you one) The fact
of the matter is, yes people want education for their children and the
fact of the matter is that a majority of the Muslim population in
India is living foot-to-mouth. I have grown up in a poor Muslim
neighborhood and you can bet a very good number of children went to
proper schools. They may not have been the DPS's of this country but
yes everyone valued education.Economics is the major concern my dear,
not community based ignorance. When you cannot even earn Rs20 a day,
you cannot possibly dream of sending your child to a regular school.

I come from a Naxal affected place so you very well imagine the state
of affairs and to add to that I grew up in a Muslim neighborhood with
a couple of Madarsas. I can tell you, even people who have studied in
these very madarsas completed their education and then took up
respectable and decent government jobs ,quite unlike your Hindu naxal
brothers just 40-50 kms away from my place. A few of us were lucky
ones who grew up in middle class families, who could study in English
medium schools and landed up with jobs with MNCs. Unfortunately most
are not so lucky. You know what, either you have never seen poverty in
and around you so it's very comfortable to pass sweeping remarks or
you are just another prejudiced and ignorant Hindu on the internet. If
you are the former (n I doubt it ) all I would ask you is to leave the
comfort of your house to visit a Madarsa .If you are the later, I can
only pity you

sanjeev says:
March 3, 2010 at 5:51 pm
@ Rajeev

Here is an interesting article from Tavleen Singh (who i think can't
be labelled as sangh parivar member as she happens to be a sikh and
married to muslim

http://www.indianexpress.com/storyOld.php?storyId=59288

I hope ignorant persons like mitra and other so called secularists
accept the true reality after going through this article or else they
will label Tavleen as sanghi.

sanjeev

Rajeev says:
March 4, 2010 at 2:45 am
Sanjeev,
Did you compare debate done on NDTV/CNN-IBN on MF Hussain and Taslima
Nasreen? It exposed the hypocrisy of Indian secualrism. I could not
control my laughter listening to arguements from Shabnam hashmi.

I have come to the conclusion that soft terrorist (ideological) from
muslim community are oxygen for all the terror activities in the
world. These are the people who should be arrested and may be
eliminated Isarael style.

RE Reply:

March 6th, 2010 at 4:45 pm

Yes people like you must be singled out Israeli style

[Reply]

sanjeev says:
March 4, 2010 at 5:43 pm
Here is another article exposing the hypocrisy of the so called
secular gang of india:

Its by Pratap Bhanu Mehta, from centre for policy research, new delhi

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/freedoms-our-defence/586662/

sanjeev says:
March 4, 2010 at 5:51 pm
@ Rajeev

sorry rajeev,

i have given up watching news on these sensationlist channels..i only
watch DD news or r news on FM gold radio.

i know this Indian secularism is a biggest joke in the world

Anything can happen in india in the name of secularism and freedom of
speech for the sake of minority (read muslim )

RE Reply:

March 6th, 2010 at 4:46 pm

Two Losers in this country Pandit Rajeev and Pandit Sanjeev have got
HT Blog as the only place to vent their frustration. Is it something
else?

Ashish says:
March 6, 2010 at 11:24 am
After all these serious comments, I think we all need a comic break..
quoting from an email just received:
A public school teacher was arrested today at John F. Kennedy
International Airport as he attempted to board a flight while in
possession of a ruler, a protractor, a compass, a slide-rule and a
calculator.

At a morning press conference, the Attorney General said he believes
the man is a member of the notorious Al-Gebra movement. He did not
identify the man, who has been charged by the FBI with carrying
weapons of maths instruction.

"Al-Gebra is a problem for us", the Attorney General said. "They
derive solutions by means and extremes, and sometimes go off on
tangents in search of absolute values. They use secret code names like
'X' and 'Y' and refer to themselves as 'unknowns', but we have
determined that they belong to a common denominator of the axis of
medieval with co-ordinates in every country.

As the Greek philanderer Isosceles used to say, "There are 3 sides to
every triangle".

When asked to comment on the arrest, President Obama said, "If God had
wanted us to have better weapons of maths instruction, he would have
given us more fingers and toes.'

White House aides told reporters they could not recall a more
intelligent or profound statement by the President. It is believed
that the Nobel Prize for Physics will follow.

Paritosh Reply:

March 6th, 2010 at 12:03 pm

ha ha ha ha . nice!!!

sanjeev says:
March 6, 2010 at 11:56 am
hilarious !!!

SKS Mumbai says:
March 6, 2010 at 1:44 pm
Why Physics?
They don't award nobles for Maths or Philosophy? Time they did

Gopi Thomas Reply:

March 6th, 2010 at 5:37 pm

@SKS

And these must be reserved for Muslims because of the historical
sidelining Westerners have done to them..

So far Muslims have not stated theat the nobels Jews received were
undeserving; so you have to give them credit!

Ashish says:
March 6, 2010 at 2:39 pm
when they run out of existing Nobels; one for each year Obama is in
office..
There is probably no rule against multiple Nobel awards for multiple
disciplines in the same year to the same person; while so far such a
rule would have been largely academic, I think with Obama, this rule
will soon be tested.
Literature Nobel is his for the taking .. with all the fiction in his
speeches (even if he has to share the Nobel with his speechwriters)..

Raju Kurien says:
March 6, 2010 at 10:02 pm
Mosab hasan Yousef, an ex Hamas leader, who later became a Mosad spy,
and converted to Christianity, has written a book titled "Son of
Hamas". Wall Street journal interviewed him on his opinions,
perspectives….His father is also a leader of Hamas..

Do you consider your father as a fanatic? "he is not a fanatic; he is
a very moderate, logical person. What matters is not whether my father
is fanatic or not; he is doing the will of a fanatic God. It does not
mind whether he is a terrorist or a traditional muslim. At the end of
the day a traditional Muslim is doing the will of a fanatic,
fundamentalist, terrorist God. I know this is harsh to say. Most
governments avoid this subject..

"the problem is not in Muslims. the problem is with their God. They
need to be liberated from their God. He is the biggest enemy. It has
been 1400 years they have been lied to.

SKS Mumbai says:
March 7, 2010 at 10:08 am
So 'Government funded religious travel' (let's call it GFRT) isn't
'Unique' but only Haj subsidy has been targeted! So unfair!

Research does help, even if, of 'directed' kind, to pick facts, as
might be necessary for the 'conclusion' one has chosen to present. But
'secular' journalism, at least here in India, is easier than that. For
facts aren't needed nor is their careful selection and for those on
the cutting edge of secular journalism, fact invention is routine.
Certainly, by those standards, Mr Zia is struggling.

To come up with 'govt funded religious travel' or GFRT for questioning
the criticism of Haj subsidy, suggests that research was involved.
Instead of limiting himself to any one of either GFRT or subsidy, he
uses both and implied smartly, that only Haj subsidy is criticized,
without ever saying that both are/aren't the same. But there may be
'small' differences between the two:

Subsidy of course is subsidy.

GFRT does not seem to be a well defined concept, but Mr Zia must be
referring to the costs involved in provision of various facilities and
services provided by Govt. for the pilgrims. These costs include a
part for the services rendered in India and another for outside India.

For e.g. in case of Kailash Mansarovar, these are free medical
inspection, security, escort cover, insurance cover and communication
links and 4 days acco. provided by Govt of Delhi (at Delhi) etc, most
of these within India. Then there is also a Rs 3250/pilgrim payment
made by Govt to Kumaon Mandal Vikas Nigam (KMVN) for arranging
boarding and lodging on the Indian side.

Indian side expenses for Haj, include cost of Haj houses, built in a
number of state capitals (including a capital cost for the facility,
often funded by the concerned state govt. There is a dedicated Haj
terminal at Delhi Airport (can't say for others), again involving a
capital cost. I am not sure if medical tests, security etc is involved
or not. There is also a fully dedicated Haj department maintained by
Air India throughout the year.

For expenses outside India:
In case of Mansarovar, nothing much is known. Possibly, the escort,
security and medical facilities continue to be provided on the chinese
side as well. Interestingly, complaints regarding poor facilities on
Chinese side are brushed aside by MEA, saying Chinese want a revision
in the rates (last set in 1995) for better facilities.

Foreign component of Haj expenses: expenditure on a contingent of
seasonal local staff, supervisors, data entry operators, drivers and
messengers, appointed in SA, a contingent of more than 600 personnel
(incl. about 135 doctors, nurses and paramedics) on short-term
deputation to SA, hospital facilities (about 100 beds) at Makkah,
Madinah, medicines, ambulances, facilitation and coordination centres
at Jeddah, Makkah probably, Madinah also.

What is also interesting to note, is the kind of answers MEA gives for
questions raised in LS or RS:

1. Whenever there is a broad query (broad as in, about 'subsidy' and
'other facilities') the answer, in case of Haj; includes a number for
subsidy and another for expenses, while for Mansarovar, it is only one
figure.

2. When there is a precise question such as: ' whether the Union
Government has been extending 'subsidy' ( no mention of facilities)
for pilgrimage of Indians abroad', the answer never goes beyond Haj
( e.g. LS Unstarred Question no 3086 http://meaindia.nic.in/parliament/ls/2006/08/23ls07.html)

3. When a specific question was asked : whether Govt
would also consider providing any subsidy on the lines of subsidy
being provided for Haj Pilgrimage, the smart state minister for MEA
repeats the same Rs 3250 story (of course never uses the word subsidy
for this) and concludes with : 'Kailash Mansarovar Yatra and Haj are
essentially different so far as the number of pilgrims (not enough
devotees? ) , mode of travel and the nature of terrain are involved.
Therefore, there may not be a direct comparison between the two!
http://meaindia.nic.in/parliament/rs/2006/05/11rs27.htm

Thus for some 'strange' reason, Govt. has consistently failed to apply
the word 'Subsidy' in case of Mansarovar costs. This could mean either
a 'consistent error' or most likely an accounting conspiracy designed
to discriminate against the poor minority, and worst of all, signed
off by CAG as well!

For the sharper but unfortunately oppressed beings, another 'small'
difference :
- the total amount paid for 2002, 03, 04 for Mansarovar was around Rs.
0.43 Crs (or Rs 43 lacs), while for HaJ 2007 and 2008, it was more
than Rs. 44.00 crs.
-Haj subsidy that Mr Zia shows at Rs 390 crs is over and above that.
Not just that, it seems that subsidy figures for Haj continue to be
presented as 'provisional' for last 4-5 years. (i.e. besides the
subsidy).

Mr Zia could have checked a bit of History as well, as he has so
carefully listed out the 'proposed' subsidy in Karnataka and the one
announced in AP a 'couple' of years ago.

Clearly then, there isn't ANY VALID reason to target Haj subsidy
alone!! Except the Discriminatory approach, what say Zia?

SKS Mumbai says:
March 7, 2010 at 10:26 am
Can someone tell me whether, there is some difference between the
Kailash Mansarovar, Tibet (for which Govt 'underwrites' a part of the
cost, as indicated by Zia) and the Mansarovar, China (for which a
'subsidy' is under consideration (as Zia says quoting media reports)

Ashish Reply:

March 10th, 2010 at 11:35 am

@SKS,
"Can someone tell me whether, there is some difference between the
Kailash Mansarovar, Tibet (for which Govt 'underwrites' a part of the
cost, as indicated by Zia) and the Mansarovar, China (for which a
'subsidy' is under consideration (as Zia says quoting media reports)"

Only Zia can answer this.. but, on past performance, even if he deigns
to, it is likely to decry your tendency to split hairs..

SKS Mumbai Reply:

March 10th, 2010 at 2:15 pm

@Ashish
You mean just tendency?
That is all we do, apart from full time hate mongering, that is

Ashish Reply:

March 10th, 2010 at 4:03 pm

aha.. but, Mr Zia is a gentleman, not given to invectives

SKS Mumbai says:
March 7, 2010 at 11:34 am
'Show me an economically underprivileged Hindu who will find fault
with government help to make a dip in the holy Ganges a reality? Or a
Muslim quibbling over a lifetime visit to Mecca, courtesy government
help?'

Now that is a profound question. Perhaps Zia can show us an
'economically privileged' Hindu who will find fault with government
help to make a trip to switzerland a reality, or riding a chauffeur
driven BMW (all expense paid) for that matter?

First of all what difference does it make, whether you are talking
about an economically privileged or underprivileged person here,
unless that bounty is meant for reducing that economic gap?

(BTW, I am not sure if Haj susbsidy is only for underpriveleged ones,
and even if, it is, the validity of above question does not change)

Secondly, on what basis does a secular Government decide that my all-
expense trip to swiss alps, is spiritually less important than
someone's dip in Ganges and more importantly, why should a secular
govt be even required to measure spirituality quotient?

Gopi Thomas Reply:

March 8th, 2010 at 4:51 pm

@SKS

I read somewhere that Haj subsidies were never requested by the
community. I believe it was instituted during the oil shock of early
1970s and institutionalized ever since. This may be one situation
where one smart politician created a permanent vote bank through this
master stroke.

ajay says:
March 8, 2010 at 10:10 am
those politicians who are using vote bank politics must be dealt with
severely.other people who easily get caugt by words of these soundrels
should apply there common sense

S Singh says:
March 8, 2010 at 5:29 pm
There is no dispute that everything possible should be done to uplift
ALL., to make all contributors to a great country and humanity.

Money should be spent wisely; it also should be spent on all who need,
not just Muslims.

Money is only one, and may be even a lesser part, as far as upliftment
of Muslims are concerned. Unlike Hindus, Christians, jews, budhists
etc they do not give much emphasis to education. It simply is not
their "core" belief. When Hindu and kids belonging to other religions
right from early ages are inculcated "Vidya dhan sarva dhanal
pradhan" , the focus of Muslim kids is memorizing Quran. After that,
they get into petty trades.

Unless education is considered as the most important factor and
embraced by the family and community, nothing will happen; complaints
will remain.

SKS Mumbai says:
March 8, 2010 at 8:20 pm
@Gopi
I don't know, but it can't be that simple.

SKS Mumbai says:
March 8, 2010 at 8:22 pm
Quote:
'While it gives Air India 150,000 assured passengers every year
(that's the total number of seats on all Indian carriers criss-
crossing the country on any given day), helping it KEEP AFLOAT, the
grant has been turned into a stick to beat Muslims with'

This is really all that it takes!
One article by a non-entity, (he/she could be anything, journalist,
activist, third rate self proclaimed intellectual, rabble rouser,
dancer, singer, whatever. Even if he wasn't, that article alone will
make him a front ranking secular warrior), asserting that Haj subsidy
is really a subsidy for Air India.

Watch that dumb 'assertion' turn into a foundational truth for the
Indian secularrazzi, to be repeated so many times that, Hitler would
have them rather Goebbels.

It just does not matter that the fraudulent claim is immediately
thrashed to pieces by precise facts and irrefutable documentary
evidence, the 'Truth' once revealed, is the Divine Law for our secular
believers. To question the law is apostasy or a communal propaganda by
Hindutva forces, or as Mr Zia claims, a 'stick' to beat poor Muslims
with.

For a moment, even if we accept that fraudulent claim, what changes
Mr. Zia? Muslims are still getting a subsidy, aren't they? Or can you
book a return ticket for Patna-Delhi-Jeddah for Rs.12000 (or Rs 16000
for last year only)? Bulk discounts? Yes why not, we will see later
how much difference your direct chartering can make. Unfortunately
facts happen to be facts and if they are communal so be it (in the
meanwhile Mr Zia could check whether direct charter negotiations were
attempted at some point of time or not and what went wrong). Here are
the facts:

1. It isn't 150,000 prize customers in the first place, the number for
2010 is more like 120,000 and that after annual increases of the order
of 10,000-15,000. approximately 50% of that is carried by Saudi
airlines.
2. Spare/standby aircrafts are a part of any commercial airlines
fleet, but they are primarily used when regular aircrafts are sent for
scheduled or unscheduled maintenance. Haj means 2-3 months of a steep
peak forcing most of the commercial airlines to opt for short term
leases, called wet lease. Being short-term, they are by definition
much more expensive than longer leases. It does not take an Einstein
to understand that the capital cost of the wet leased aircrafts will
have to be recovered from the passengers who fly during that peak
window. For e.g. If you look at the state electricity boards, their
normal procurement costs (for the pool) will rarely exceed Rs 4-5/
unit. But during peak months, the incremental power is often purchased
at Rs. 10-15/unit range. It matters, but little, that your requirement
for those few months constitutes a huge volume, the annual fixed cost
will still be recovered during those two months. Further, it seems
that many of the aircrafts have to undertake one trip without
passengers (i.e. no backhaul)
3. If AIR INDIA was really saving itself by grabbing the prized Haj
Service, why does it keep on requesting the Govt to allow other
airlines in the space? Isn't that Monopolistic, Mr Zia ? Last publicly
known attempt was around 2008. http://www.financialexpress.com/news/haj-subsidy-has-air-india-fuming/360651/0
4. BTW Muslims anyway have the option of not going through Haj
committee and a large number of Muslims actually go through private
tour operators (~ 40,000 or so), so why are suffering the tyranny of
AI? Why? Especially when it also gives the so-unfair-stick to Hindutva
Guys ?

But all these are lies, a hindutva propaganda, sanghi hate mongering,
the only Truth and what we need to remember for ever is that, it is
not the 'Poor Hajis' but AI who is being subsidized. (soon we will
discover it wasn't even AI, it were the vile Bramhins-Bania who were
fattening themselevs)

You know what, some 100 years down the line, secular historian will
cite these and assert Haj subsidy was a myth and contrary evidence
will be subjected to secular tools called contextualizing History and
presenting multiple perspectives and another 100 years Haj subsidy
won't even be a subject.

S Singh Reply:

March 9th, 2010 at 2:53 pm

Muslims will go on itching, bitching, scratching…

The only solution is dictatorship (why do you think almost all Muslim
countries are dictatorships?) or someother way of controlling, because
they respect power; they just cannot operate independently in a
democracy. Time and again it ahs been demonstrated that they cannot
form, suatain a democracy.

India will remain a democracy, meaning the scratching and bitching
will be with us for a long time, unless a region is converted to
another Pakistan and round up ALL Muslims to that region.

Rajeev Reply:

March 9th, 2010 at 9:06 pm

No all muslims should be packed up and sent to pakistan. No more
divisions for these ungrateful people.

Rajeev says:
March 8, 2010 at 9:07 pm
Is this RE another avatar of Soft-terrorits Bobby?

sanjeev Reply:

March 9th, 2010 at 6:59 pm

@ Rajeev

Tonight i will get to meet biggest anti national..Javed Naqvi (dawn
reporter from delhi )

I want to ask him some tough questions ..

If any knowledge u can share about this nut ?

Rajeev Reply:

March 9th, 2010 at 9:05 pm

Ask him just one thing. Is he Indian or Pakistani?

If he is Indian and beleives in secularism, why is he with Pakistan on
Kashmir.

Secondly ask him what happened to 20% hindu population of pakistans.
How many guharat massacre took place in Pakistan?

SKS Mumbai says:
March 8, 2010 at 10:12 pm
Aah Rs 390 crs isn't it.
Last statement by Dr Tharoor pegs it at some Rs 826 crs for 2009!and
still counting all these numbers continue to be Provisional.

Rajeev says:
March 9, 2010 at 1:30 am
I have always wondered if Hajj performed on khairat of infidel nation
(India) is haram or Halal.

I am pretty sure that all the muslims perforing Hajj on donations
doled out by hindu-dominated India are commiting shirk and their hajj
is invalid according to Islam.

I guess most of the muslims are destined for jahannum.

S Singh Reply:

March 9th, 2010 at 2:35 pm

Does not matter, as long as it is free.

It is the government we should blame; and by that voters like us. what
the politicians have done is one more way of institutionalizing
"minority" , this time with huge allocation. Now the bar of spending
is set high, and every following year it will be higher than the prior
year.

Like any government spending schemes, only 10% will go to the purpose;
other 90% will go to the b ureaucracy and contractors!

sanjeev Reply:

March 9th, 2010 at 6:50 pm

ha ha ha ha !

where else they can go ?

mulleh ki dor masjid tak

RE Reply:

March 20th, 2010 at 2:53 pm

arey pandit ki langot apni dhoti sambhalo yaar

SKS Mumbai says:
March 9, 2010 at 9:35 pm
@Ashish

In RE, you have one of the original ones. His views on Premjee's
Billions and stuff are part of the original curriculum. Don't be
surprised, when you are told:
1. It is Indian Muslims living in the gulf whose earnings drive the
larger part of Indian economy.

2. That Indira Gandhi used her charm to get cheap oil from the house
of Sauds and thus Hindus have been living off Muslim charity for ages.

3.That there is a conspiracy under which muslim intellectuals are
being murdered and this has gone for many decades now.

4. That "Urdu" was eliminated as a language to prevent muslim
advancement.

5. Some more that I came across recently: the conspiracy against
Muslims also include: introducing "gate-keeper" mentality-type service
commission exams and entrance exams for professional courses .That a
scientist was picked to become a Muslim President of India, to
diminish OR extinguish his contribution to science.
That (hold your breath) Shahrukh Khan and Amir Khan have Hindu wives,
because they are rich and famous – and their wives will inherit their
crores.

6. Of course we all know about 9/11, 26/11, Karkare, Batla and types.
Recent violence in Karnataka on Tasleema's article was also a Hindutva
conspiracy.(Confirmed already as I see)

7. Upper caste Hindus joined hands with British in a conspiracy to
weaken Islamic Kings, freedom fight was mainly a Muslim venture, but
Gandhi and Nehru forged another conspiracy to divide India, so that
Muslims were weakened.

8. His views on how state is dealing with Maoists because they are
Hindus shouldn't surprise anyone. The difference lies, not in
perceptions but in definitions itself.

Reasoned debate is useless and anyway impossible. Facts must adhere to
'secular' requirement else they are conspiracies. When even fairly
well ensconced people, from the core of mainstream, do not hesitate in
asserting nonsense like Haj subsidy is for Air India, never miss the
opportunity to impress you with Quranic wisdom, or to offer Quranic
justification while urging Muslims to seek education or to not hate
the jews, we know it isn't just another problem.
This combined with the values our politicians operate on, will ensure
that we just have to live with it the way it is and just hope it does
not get worse during our or our children's lifetime.

Gopi Thomas Reply:

March 9th, 2010 at 10:45 pm

@SKS

There is more; especially with the advent of ex SIMI turned into PFI/
SDPI as a political party for the disadvantaged, "not just Muslims":

1)Brahmins are colluding with USA/UK to make India a Jesustan

2)Reservations etc are farce; Brahmins control everything (i am still
looking for those powerful Brahmins!)

3) Muslims did well in the first 30 years of independence; then a
coordinated conspiracy started to marginalize them, to exterminate
their intellectuals
4)The elite Muslims migrated to Pakistan (we know how that has helped
PAkistan) and the real backward Muslims stayed back in India

5) Gandhiji was in collusion with Brahmins to marginalize Muslims

6)Lodhi and Gazni are not Muslims,a nd Somnath temple destruction
should not be attributed to Muslims

7)Babur loved all and did not destroy any places of worship

8)Auragazeb is maligned by Brahmins; he was a great king who cared for
all equally (and Akbar was not a great king)

9)Shivaji looted neighboring kingdoms, and have done more damage to
india than any Moghul or other foreign invaders have done

10)"Mapilla rebellion" in Kerala that happened with Khilafet was an
agrarian revolution and not one where muslims targeted and raped and
killed Hindus and destroyed their palces of worship

11) tipu Sultan was a benevolent king who did not destroy palces of
worship of Hindus and Christians (although history of Kerala clearly
traces his "patayottam" (rapid fight ) for the massive conversions in
Malabar area, including naming Calicut as Islamabad for a while

12)All the communal troubles are started by Brahmins to further
marginalize Muslims

List goes on

Ashish Reply:

March 10th, 2010 at 1:28 am

@SKS @Gopi Thomas
great compilations; SKS, great summary of the core arguments we have
heard on this blog over the last few months.
This blog has run out of ideas.. tired, tiresome and repetitive..
poorly researched and lately even without a central idea.

I can sense the next blog coming.. on why Ranganath Mishra
recommendations must be adopted. Stealing from a well known poster,
first seen in London, "Sachar spotted the cancer, Mishra has the
answer".

Trying to remember some Muslim Maoist name; honestly can't. By the
way, SP/RE/UI.. whoever/ whatever, I was in Lalbazar (Calcutta police
HQ) .. staying with a certain doctor employed with the police the day
Charu Mazumdar was brought in. I have heard enough stories of how
Naxals used to be handled by the Calcutta Police; suffice it to say
KPS Gill was really tame in comparison. Honestly speaking, I have
never ever thought about the religion of the Naxals; now that I do,
yes, you are right. All of these guys I heard of were Hindus-excepting
Jangal Santhal – even though I am sure they will be quite amused to be
called such. But, the brutality on both sides (Naxals and the state)
was totally secular. I hope I am not told next that Maoists and the
Government are in cahoots to rid the world of Muslims.
Hindus become Maoists because they just like to kill and are afforded
protection by the state; and Muslims do not- inspite of all the
discrimination, because they follow the religion of peace. Hmmm…..
Talking about KPS Gill; so, his forces killed Muslims and then dressed
them up as Khalistanis, correct? Just checking…
MMM's (Much Maligned Modi) goons killed Muslims while his police shot
dead 400 Hindus .. inconvenient, but true.
Gopi, great item 4 on your list. Precisely..

SKS Mumbai Reply:

March 10th, 2010 at 2:17 pm

@Ashish

'Honestly speaking, I have never ever thought about the religion of
the Naxals'

Hmm that shows your communal mindset, Bhai sahab.

Ashish Reply:

March 10th, 2010 at 3:56 pm

@SKS
my communal mindset is well established on this blog.. garv se kaho…

RE Reply:

March 20th, 2010 at 2:52 pm

Arey bhai then stop living off Muslim money and Muslim oil. Dead
simple as that. You hate us like anything and yet want to live off our
money! hahaha great

RE Reply:

March 20th, 2010 at 2:54 pm

You didn't answer my post cuz you DON"T have an answer . Stop being a
MORON for a change. You sound like a joker

SKS Mumbai says:
March 10, 2010 at 2:13 pm
Sorry guys, I underestimated the power of contextualisation and
perspectivasation and the time it might take to secularise the
history. It is faster.
See what India's great son, Mr Kuldip Nair has to say about 26/11 and
Karkare:

Quote: More worrisome are the Hindu extremists rearing their head. The
murder of police officer Hemant Karkare, who was probing the Malegaon
blasts, was the doing of the Vishwa Hindu Parishad or Bajrang Dal"
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/columnists/16-kuldip-nayar-politics-of-terrorism-hs-01

See how simple it is to present TRUTH. If you want first mover
advantage, it is time to write a Book :

November 26th 2008, Mumbai : Revolt of the oppressed against the vile
Hindu Elite.
You can try a Bharat Ratna for yourself and freedom fighter's pension
for Mr Kasab

Ashish Reply:

March 10th, 2010 at 4:01 pm

@SKS
for a few pieces of silver.. Mr Nayar can be made to say anything..
He does not find a publisher on this side of the border anymore; don't
judge him too harshly.. he needs to earn a living somehow.

Gopi Thomas Reply:

March 10th, 2010 at 6:12 pm

@Ashish

I will take Kuldip against Naqvi (who also writes for Dawn) anytime!

SKS Mumbai says:
March 10, 2010 at 4:11 pm
@Ashish

the latest seems to be "garv se kaho hum internet hindu hain"

Rajeev Reply:

March 10th, 2010 at 9:21 pm

Nice one…

Indian says:
March 11, 2010 at 9:59 am
Victim Swami Laxmanananda portrayed as a villain by biased media
Alarming 5 fold increase in Kandhamal Christian population from six
per cent in 1971 to 27 per cent in 2001 ,It began with the arrival of
Christian missionaries in the area who found the remote region very
conducive to conduct prosetylization amongst the poor tribals. The
conversions continued unhindered until the arrival of Swami
Laxmanananda who put strenuous efforts to stop conversions and help
reconversion to Hindouism as well. If not for his effort Kandhamal
would have been another Nagaland in the making where the separatist
movement has wrecked havoc in the state. The aggressive Christian
proselytization in Orissa today pitched previously peaceful tribals
into warring camps of Christians and non-Christian. This has has
vitiated the peace that has existed with various communities for
millenia. Next target is KARNATAKA and they are facing stiff
resistance from Hindus here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SKS Mumbai says:
March 12, 2010 at 10:25 pm
Another TRAIL BLAZING Research!!

Truth behind Sachin's 200 runs Innings. Must Read

http://altnews.asia/content/2010/03/11/who-controls-fanatic-india-xi-dr-abdul-ruff-colachal-0

Author is one more feather in the crowded cap of our JN University of
Secular Research Sciences.

Ashish Reply:

March 12th, 2010 at 11:42 pm

@SKS,
does the JNU reserve seats for the mentally challenged?

sanjeev Reply:

March 14th, 2010 at 7:54 pm

@ ashish

Infact it has become fashionable to criticize govt and hindus in JNU.
There is whole lot a generation mostly elite bengali who tretas it
fashionable to be politically correct and being anti national.

Unfortunately the leftist brigade have penetarted deeply in JNU
faculty where it has become fashionable to criticise anything indian,

Infact JNU has proved to be a factory of producing traitors in the
garb of liberal thinkers

sanjeev Reply:

March 14th, 2010 at 7:58 pm

@ Ashish

Yes there is reservation for such elements like Rauff in centres of
JNU in schools of languages and international relations. These centres
are for Urdu, Arabic, Persian, west asian studiess, etc.

In fact these centres are reserved exclusively of urdu-persian- arabi
speaking intellectuals.

Hence we used to call these departments as UPA

Gopi Thomas Reply:

March 13th, 2010 at 1:52 pm

It also shows people live in different planets. Also, it is like
Newton's law. The more appeasement and more give aways, the more
demand for more and cries of discrimination. The person's last name
sounds like a typical Kerala "house" name; and if he is from there, it
is an even "bigger" problem. Because whatever may be the issue in
other parts of India, they were part of the ruling coalition from
almost day 1; they got their district formed, they are one of the
richest groups etc etc.

SKS Mumbai says:
March 13, 2010 at 6:29 pm
@Ashish

Reservations for mentally challenged?
Interesting question , but for which levele admission or for faculty.

http://blogs.hindustantimes.com/they-call-me-muslim/2010/02/28/budgeting-for-minorities/

My Name Is Bal Thackeray

In the middle of the Shiv Sena's rampage against Shah Rukh Khan's My
Name Is Khan in Bombay, came the delightful news that someone had
blackened Pramod Muthalik's face in Bangalore just as he was preparing
to oppose Valentine's Day celebrations on Sunday.
I think it is rich that he should describe the act as "undemocratic"
and against freedom of expression – as though such freedoms are the
prerogative of just the bigots of this country and the rest of us have
no democratic rights or freedom to do as we please, at all!

But that also brought to mind the fact that perhaps the Shiv Sena in
Bombay has been the biggest loser this Valentine season. They are the
original party poopers of Valentine's Day celebrations – there was a
time when Bal Thackeray had become synonymous with the term. I recall
a friend in a raging fight with her husband who would not take her out
to dinner one Valentine's day one year. When this musty and old-
fashioned gent started a spiel on Indian culture and traditions, my
friend walked off in a huff, muttering, "There is no fun in asking Bal
Thackeray out to dinner, anyway!"

Now the sainiks have no time to mount an attack as of yore on card and
gift companies who might want to make a killing as people celebrate
their love for each other. In any case, they have no reason. The Shiv
Sena is now in the hands of Thackeray's son Uddhav and he has no love
lost for his divorced sister-in-law, Smita.

According to my information from inside Matoshree, the Sena only ever
took up the anti-Valentine's Day cause purely for reasons of personal
pique. When they started the campaign sometime in the late Nineties,
Smita was very thick with her father-in-law Bal Thackeray. And
Thackeray Sr was pretty miffed one December when a very well-known
card and gift company –which puts up huge Valentines Day hearts and
arches all across urban India — refused to sponsor his daughter-in-
law's Mukti Foundation event in the battle against AIDS.

I am told that they had burnt their fingers the previous year – they
were not paid their share of the dues even after several reminders and
appeals and so decided to cut their losses by determining never to
sponsor such an event ever again. None of Thackeray's cajoling,
pleading or threatening would budge this company.

So when Valentine's Day came around a few weeks later in February,
Thackeray decided to get even. For years after that the Sena
vandalised all card shops and gift outlets on Valentine's Day – and
then, one year, it abruptly ceased. It must have been a coincidence
surely that by then the reins had been handed over to Uddhav and his
brother divorced that year. I believe Uddhav saw no point in opposing
something that had caught on like fire, particularly for someone he
considered no longer a member of the Thackeray household; indeed for
someone he felt had no claim to the Thackeray name any longer.

It is also significant that Raj Thackeray actually encouraged the
celebration of love soon after he formed his Maharashtra Navnirman
Sena –he put up posters encouraging youths to learn ball room dancing
(though that stopped after the first year when he received flak for
encouraging westernisation among Indian youth).

Today, the whole world has seen how Shah Rukh Khan has stood up to Bal
Thackeray and refused to pay up – yes, at the end of the day, that is
what, I believe, this was all about. The Sena targeted Shah Rukh only
because he had a film coming up and knew that producers and
distributors would rather buy off the trouble than risk vandalisation
and block crores of rupees riding on their films (that's what Karan
Johar did after all vis-à-vis Wake Up, Sid and Raj Thackeray). I
salute Shah Rukh for keeping producers and distributors, too, from
giving in to such low blackmailing tactics.

However, very few people know that much before Shah Rukh, one card
company in India had silently determined not to give in to cheap arm-
twisting and risked – even suffered – vandalisation and monetary
losses for years before the Sena got off its back and the celebration
of love began to happen in Bombay in right earnest.

Of course, the individual for whom these obstructionist activities
were undertaken was herself organising highly expensive celebratory
dinners for couples at her various restaurants across the city much
before the vandalisation ceased, quite exposing the duplicity of the
Shiv Sena in its campaigns – a point that has now been underscored by
Raj Thackeray. For the first time I agree with Raj – if the Sena can
allow cultural exchanges between India and Pakistan to go forward
unfettered, then they have an ulterior motive in targeting Shah Rukh
Khan.

And that is not because he is Muslim or supported Pakistani cricket
players. It is because he had a film coming up which had nearly a
billion rupees riding on it. And opportunities like these are not
something to let go of — if Your Name Is Bal Thackeray.

(38 votes, average: 4.53 out of 5)

Posted by Sujata Anandan on Friday, February 12, 2010 at 4:58 pm
Filed under India · Tagged Bal Thackeray, Bangalore, blackened Pramod
Muthalik, Bombay, My Name Is Khan, rampage, Shahrukh Khan, Shiv Sena,
Valentine's Day celebrations

102 Responses to "My Name Is Bal Thackeray"

Kushal says:
February 13, 2010 at 12:31 pm
Great piece, Sujata. But I'm with Manish – not only the Sena(s) but
ALL political parties have ulterior motives behind their causes.


Kushal Reply:

February 13th, 2010 at 3:19 pm

Btw, do you suppose the Sena will demand a cut of MNIK's takings since
they have practically driven the whole nation to watch it, just to
take a stand?

Sujata Anandan Reply:

February 15th, 2010 at 2:37 pm

Ha, ha, ha! Tht will take some gall!

Anurav Reply:

February 14th, 2010 at 10:55 am

True. ALL political parties have ulterior motives but only a handful
like Sena keeps the city as hostage.

Sujata Anandan Reply:

February 15th, 2010 at 2:35 pm

Agree, Bunny. But like Anurav says all political parties have their
agenda but only ones like the Sena hold the city to ransom

Kushal Reply:

February 16th, 2010 at 6:17 pm

I'm no advocate for the Sena(s), Sujata and Anurav. But I wonder how a
government can allow things to reach such a state that a party CAN
hold a city to ransom.

What about THOSE ulterior motives?

Harry says:
February 13, 2010 at 1:22 pm
Hi sujata, why didn't u publish my comment.

Sujata Anandan Reply:

February 15th, 2010 at 2:38 pm

Have no control over this , Harry

Anil says:
February 13, 2010 at 3:57 pm
Not much debate when Nilesh Rane a congress MP held Maharashtra to
ransom on the film Zhenda. He even managed to have the film release
postponed. Nice government sponsored promotion for MNIK. 24 hours
prime time coverage. Great going. Keep it up

Mohin says:
February 13, 2010 at 6:33 pm
Bal Thackare is a ordinary Man,is a not God,He is using ordinary
Peoples to him as Powerful
Certainly he fails.If i am CM of Maharastra Surely He will be
furnished.

Anil Kumar says:
February 13, 2010 at 10:13 pm
In the middle of the Shiv Sena's rampage against Shah Rukh Khan's My
Name Is Khan in Bombay, came the "delightful" news ..

See this is the problme with socalled educated class of India.. Here
this madam found that news delightful.

As much as I disapprove the nonsense of valentine's day protest it's
equally disturbing that people midn you educated one at that find this
vandalism when the recepient is their object of hate find it
delightful..

What is the difference between Muthalik's army spreading nonsense and
these idiots who blackend his face that too in a panel debate..

Sane people shold be the last oen to endorse these behavious otherwise
you lose the right to complain when army of muthaliksfo the world go
on rampage

Rajeev says:
February 13, 2010 at 10:46 pm
I think it is SRK desperate attempt to equal 3 idiots collections by
any means…what a chichora khan!!!

Rajeev says:
February 14, 2010 at 12:20 am
This controversy started by SRK is just to promote MNIK so that his
movie can beat collections for 3 Idiot.

What a Chichora loser SRK is!!!

What fools we Indians are!!! This mediocre actor has taken this nation
for a ride with Congress in arms and media in his shoes.

By the way our Maharashtra police was so busy gaurding SRK's movie
that they forgot to gaurd common people of pune (who have stood up to
Thackrey but forgot to stand up to terrorist sympathisers).

Rajeev says:
February 14, 2010 at 12:56 am
Let us see who gained and lost out of this controversy-

1. Congress – Gained political mileage in UP and Bihar by showing sham
sympathy towards north Indians in Mumbai. Gained political mileage
among muslim voters by supporting Shahrukh Khan and his pro-pakistani
stance (Pakistan is a great neighbor to have).

2. Rahul Gandhi – Has become a hero for UP and Bihar voters. By
supporting SRK, he has become hero of communal muslim voters and now
is going to Azamgarh to consolidate those gains.

3. Shiv Sena- After becoming irrelevant after MNS (Raj Thackrey)
hijacked its plank ably supported by congress led chavan govt., they
got an opportunity to get noticed. They miscalcuated big time because
they should know that India has moved on. We have now become immuned
to terrorism and are now more interested in making money. For us
escapist routes like movies are more important than lives of 200
Indians. As long as VIPs are not hurt, we don't care and so does our
Media.

4. Media- Media got great TRP out of this controversy..loads of ads
and big money. The media under the leadership of Rahul Gandhi has also
started propaganda that rahul is next KING of India (Times of India).
This is the first time in the history of private television that
doordarshan stands ashamed in front of media's pro-congress bias.

5. Aam Admi urf Ullu ka Pattha – Aam admi lost money on mediocre film
like MNIK, lost valuable time following useless pro-SRK and pro-Rahul
Baba story.

Nikhil says:
February 14, 2010 at 1:49 pm
Sujata,

UNHOLY NEXUS BETN BOLLYWOOD AND NEWS MEDIA IN INDIA:

Please read the article in Indian express today. They say it's unique
in India where movie producers and stars own or have stake in the
content providers or business groups that own TV channels. This
furthers the deep suspicion in the MNIK controversy. SRK and Karan
Johar, most likely, are laughing their way to the bank. Shiv Sena
perhaps may've got a small share of it too. Who knows?

arvind says:
February 17, 2010 at 10:56 am
Thakray family jo khud mumbai ka nahi hai aur apne aap ko asli
mumbaikar batata hai , mumbai uski hai jo mumbai se sachha pyar karta
hai ,uske bare me sochta hai , ye logo ke bhawnao ko bhadkakar apne
roti ka intjam karte hai aur pure mumbai ke logo ke paise ko lutte
hai, pahle party banakar party fund ke paise se apna ghar chalate hai.
Agar thakray me himmat hai to north india jane wali kisi bhi train ke
genral compartment me baith kar dikhai, aur wo train non stopage ho to
shayad destintion tak pahunchte pahunchte wo history ke ek joker ban
kar rah jayenge . thakrey hosh me aao , nafrat ki aandhi mat failao ,
nahi to usi me mit jaoge .

Rajeev Reply:

February 17th, 2010 at 10:07 pm

It looks like a typical nautanki congressi speech.

shiuli says:
February 17, 2010 at 1:29 pm
Ms.Sujata, great insight. Enjoyed the subtle wit in your writing also
the way you put across your point, by not badgering it down the neck.

Ashish Kolarkar says:
February 17, 2010 at 2:10 pm
Thanks Sujata for revealing interesting secret motive of Thackeray's
in public domain. I'm sure you have lot of such secrets to offer in
near future. Enjoyed your blog.

arvind says:
February 18, 2010 at 10:20 am
It's real voice of truth indian , agar dam hai to thkray family ko
train me bitha kar dekh lo saath me tum bhi aa jana

AKshay_Marathi says:
February 21, 2010 at 6:39 pm
Hi..,
THIS IS REALLY DISAPPOINTING TO READ THAT , U ARE PORPOSEFULLY USIN
WORD BOMBAY.
U HATE THAKRE O.K. BUT WHY R U INSULTING WHOLE MARATHI BY REPEATNG
BOMBAY.
MAY BE ONE TO GET OUR LOST PRIDE AND TO SAVE FROM HUMILIATION FROM
INDIAN WE HAVE TO SUPPORT THAKRE.
PLZ. DO'T CALL IT BAMBAY IT IS MUMBAI.

Rajeev Reply:

February 23rd, 2010 at 10:47 pm

These jouranlist are extremist fascist who impose their ideologies on
others.

Arpit says:
February 24, 2010 at 1:36 am
Its was only the the publicity stunt by Bal Thackeray. He only wants a
topic every time to be in limelite, as he did when he was delivering
comments on north Indians in Mumbai……..nothing else…I think this type
of political party should be banned in India…I think they people wanna
run country as what they want………………

Earthling says:
March 11, 2010 at 7:28 pm
thakeray is a very bad boy…never will he do good in the face of
indians….corrupting mind sets of people and talking as if he is doing
all good for india…

http://blogs.hindustantimes.com/singly-political/2010/02/12/my-name-is-bal-thackeray/#more-135

Happy Birthday, Netaji

As Bal Thackeray turns 83 on Saturday (January 23), I cannot help
recalling the politics of birthdays that I have witnessed over the
years.

The first political birthday party that I ever attended was that of S
B Chavan (father of Maharashtra's Chief Minister Ashok Chavan),
sometime in the late Eighties.Sharad pawar had just merged his
Congress(S) with the Congress(I) and become Chief Minister the
previous year. And though Chavan Sr was inducted into the union
cabinet as Home Minister, I think he was mighty miffed at having been
summarily displaced to accommodate the Maratha warlord.

The move opened up a chasm between the so-called `loyalists' in the
Congress and those who were Pawar's acolytes. The bickering and
nitpicking went on for months, until Chavan's birthday arrived on July
14 the next year. Without making any overt moves that might seem as a
campaign against the party high command (it was still Rajiv Gandhi
then), Congress loyalists thought they would use Chavan Sr's birthday
to put Pawar in his place.

The party was held at a star hotel in South Bombay and a huge
chocolate cake was rolled in to stand under the chandelier in the main
ballroom of that hotel. The hosts had invited all and sundry,
including journalists, except for one very important person – Chief
Minister Sharad Pawar. They were full of glee as Chavan was
fashionably late at his own birthday party and crowed at how awful
Pawar might feel when he read about it in the papers the next day.

The birthday boy arrived an hour after he was scheduled to cut the
cake and we all gathered round him as he held the ribboned knife in
his hand and prepared to set the ball rolling. Even as those around
him clapped and sang the birthday tune, I turned round to see why
there was an unusual hush around the edges of that room.

Sharad Pawar was standing at the door and, even as Chavan cut a slice,
Pawar moved slowly towards the centre of the room. And before Chavan
could lift the slice and feed it to the person nearest him (I forget
who), Pawar was standing with an extended hand to greet Chavan a happy
birthday. A chagrined Chavan had to feed the cake to Pawar, instead;
they hugged and exchanged pleasantries even as many of the Congress
workers stood around in consternation..

Chavan graciously invited him to join the party but Pawar demurely
declined. He had another important meeting to attend, he said by way
of explanation, but had just dropped in as he was passing by the hotel
en route to this other function. He left in minutes but it took
several more for the others to regain their composure and continue
with the now subdued celebrations.

Next day, as I and another colleague nosed round Pawar's office, we
were told in confidence by a close confidante that Pawar had heard
about the plan to cut him out of the party and was damned if he would
be defeated by a bunch of `upstarts' or provide a lot of grist to the
mill of journalists who would have a blast the next morning. So he
decided to play party pooper-of-sorts (because that is what he had
turned out to be the previous night).

We were told that Pawar had arrived at the time given out for the cake-
cutting ceremony but sent a sniffer upstairs to find out how things
stood. He decided he would not be kept waiting for Chavan inside the
hotel and asked his cavalcade to circle round the locality of the
hotel several times until Chavan himself had rolled in (he had posted
some cops as lookouts). Pawar then timed his entry perfectly to
nonplus Chavan and his supporters with, "I heard you were having a
party for your birthday. So I decided to drop in myself and greet you
in person.''

And then he went home. Satisfied that he had nipped any mischief in
the bud. Chavan never had another birthday party like that one again,
though his constituents would celebrate the day in his hometown off
and on over the years.

And as far as I remember, Pawar has only ever had one birthday party –
when he turned 60 nearly a decade ago. There was a five-star event
with the who's who of India represented the previous evening. But it
was his public rally the next day that saddened me the most. For, even
then it was no secret that he was dying to be Prime Minister. Atal
Behari Vajpayee was in office at the time and Pawar was at pains to
explain to his supporters that it was still not too late for him. "In
this country no one becomes Prime Minister before they are 70,'' he
said, though that was not strictly true – Indira and Rajiv Gandhi each
had been much younger. "Look at P V Narasimha Rao, he was half way
through his seventies before he became PM; even Vajpayee now is past
75. I am yet only 60. There is still plenty of time.''

I wondered if his support base was shrinking and he needed to say that
to stop them from abandoning him altogether. Ten years later he is
still not PM and I wonder how much more time he would now need to get
to that high office.

But it is not just Congressmen who are fond of birthdays. Manohar
Joshi had had himself presented with a 60-diamond necklace on – what
else? – his 60th birthday in a very public ceremony in Bombay wherein
he laid claim to a flawless career stating proudly that no one could
find a breath of scandal against him. Bal Thackeray, then about to
turn 75, was at the time besieged with allegations that his nephew Raj
Thackeray had murdered middle-class professional Ramesh Kini and he
did not take that comment kindly. Joshi was out of office within weeks
and Thackeray barred anyone from going to town on his own birthday.
Joshi has never had another party again.

Nearly a decade later, Thackeray is still off a public celebration of
his birthday. Shiv Sainiks, though, have organised blood donation
camps, free distribution of grains et al to mark the event but the
Sena patriarch has decided to remain out of public view.

I think he is the wisest of them all. I am told he is superstitious –
kahin nazar naa lag jaye!

(1 votes, average: 5 out of 5)

Posted by Sujata Anandan on Friday, January 22, 2010 at 7:45 pm
Filed under India · Tagged Bal Thackeray, Maratha warlord, political
birthday party, Rajiv Gandhi, S B Chavan, Sharad Pawar

6 Responses to "Happy Birthday, Netaji!"

Dev says:
January 22, 2010 at 11:03 pm
And we'll never know what became of Netaji.

Anil says:
January 23, 2010 at 11:36 am
Wish Pawar had used the same cunningness to improve agriculture sector
and bring down prices. He is just incapable of thinking big for the
country. The only person who really knew how to celebrate birthday in
a manner beffiting his personality was Chach Nehru. He really spent
quality time with children. Others have just aped him.

Ashish Kolarkar says:
January 23, 2010 at 8:35 pm
Due to such shrewdness and intelligence Pawar is in the limelight for
such a long time. He is too ambitious and believes in playing long
innings. Who knows one day this Maratha Sardar would hoist flag from
Lal Kila?

But it seems that Pawar is losing his popularity for his foot in mouth
comments recently. He seems to have all the problems but no soultions
to Offer to common man. He is bent on taking his role too casually.

Good that Thackeray Sr has finally realised that birthday bashes are
meant for sycophancy only and don't serve any good purpose.

vipin malik says:
January 24, 2010 at 12:03 am
you remeber for netaji all indian popel it was great man

vipin malik says:
January 24, 2010 at 12:10 am
i am a fan of Netaji

Anil Kumar says:
January 24, 2010 at 3:51 am
These leaders who set goal in terms of this or that chair make me
cringe..

All these leader needs a plenary session with Narendra Modi..
Everytime anyone asks him about chairs his reply is I never lust for
chair I lost for work to be done target to be achieved with or without
chair.. Chair is not the destination and that's how it should be..

http://blogs.hindustantimes.com/singly-political/2010/01/22/happy-birthday-netaji/#more-131

Jhenda ooncha rahe…
14 Comments

Ram Gopal Verma's Sarkar and Sarkar Raj are broadly thought to be
based on the life of Bal Thackeray. In large portions, the theme might
be taken from episodes from the Sena tiger's life but the intelligence
and dexterity of managing politics that has characterised Amitabh
Bachchan's portrayal of Sarkar in the two films have never been Bal
Thackeray's forte.
Thackeray is an instinctive politician whose reactions have always
been spontaneous rather than well-thought out. Moreover, he has
thrived not on his programmes or issues of his making but on the
mistakes of other parties (in large measure, the Congress). For
example, the one and only time that the Shiv Sena came to power in
Maharashtra in alliance with the BJP was in 1995, soon after the 1992
riots and the 1993 bomb blasts when people thought and believed that
the Congress was playing far too many games and still remembered the
protectionist campaign of Shiv Sainiks through those burning weeks.

If the Sena was unable to return in 1999, 2004 and 2009 again, it is
because in these years, the Congress and the Nationalist Congress
Party, in alliance in Maharashtra, have largely done little wrong and
Thackeray has found no gap in the fabric to tear it apart.

But the Shiv Sena's massive defeat at both the Lok Sabha and the
Assembly elections can be largely attributed to art — or at least
politics posing as art. Just before the Lok Sabha polls, Raj Thackeray
had helped to produce a film titled Mee Chhatrapati Shivaji Raje
Bhosale Boltoy (I, Chhatrapati Shivaji Raje Bhosale, speak), with
Mahesh Manjrekar playing the title role, that was an indictment of the
complacence and laid-back attitudes of Maharastrians. It portrayed,
through film, the political point that Raj had been hammering at for
months: that the Maharashtrian is content with just a table, khurchi
ani pankha (a table, a chair and a fan). That he did not strive for
much more and allowed others to walk all over him. The film exhorted
Maharashtrians to become more combative in their own interest and,
like Oliver, never stop asking for more

It released in Maharashtra's cinemas just before the producers-
multiplex imbroglio and so ran for weeks and weeks and had a great
hand in influencing a large number of Maharashtrian youth who went
right out and voted for Raj Thackeray's Maharashtra Navnirman Sena.

Now the Shiv Sena has come out with its counter to that film – benami
again, like Raj's production of Chhatrapati, but with no kid gloves on
this time. It appears to be a real-life account of the war between the
two cousins – indeed, from the stills released so far, it is very
difficult to spot the differences between the actors who play Raj and
Uddhav and the original cousins.

Titled Jhenda (Flag), it seems to be a mixture of truth and
exaggeration and some of the alleged falsehoods have already compelled
the producer to make some cuts and changes and promise to re-release
the film without the offending portions.

But while everyone — from Narayan Rane's son to sundry Sena leaders —
are objecting to their unfair portrayals, the one man it lampoons the
most – Raj Thackeray – is uncharacteristically silent.

I haven't seen Jhenda yet but I am told that there is a scene where
Raj's character dons a skullcap and attends an Iftaar party. I don't
know how true that portrayal is, for in all my years I at least have
not seen Raj Thackeray in a skull cap at an Iftaar party. When Raj
launched his MNS he did mean to be all inclusive and there are many
Muslims in his party who are devoted to Bal Thackeray's nephew. Yet
they have all taken a so-called `mature' decision not to agitate or
protest.

It could be because Raj well realises that any protest will only help
the film at the box office and more people will end up seeing his
portrayal in an unflattering light than they would if he just gives it
the royal ignore. But, a little bird tells me, Raj has also been cut
down to size and is no longer sure what his protests will lead to.

At the constitution of the current Assembly in Maharashtra, he
protested against Samajwadi Party MLA Abu Asim Azmi taking his oath in
Hindi. That has led to another non-bailable warrant from a court in
Madhya Pradesh (in addition to cases pending against him in courts in
Bihar and Jharkhand, just transferred to Delhi by the Supreme Court))
and suddenly he has no Godfathers.

It is largely believed that the previous Congress government egged him
on against the Shiv Sena but the Assembly elections proved that Raj
was eating into even the Congress and the NCP voter base. So they have
no reason to nurture a Frankenstein's Monster. But it may also be
true, as I have heard, that the Congress is also squeezing his
business interests to gag him into submission. Moreover, he needs to
keep is silence, again, to buy freedom for those of his MLAs who were
suspended for four years from the Maharashtra Assembly for beating up
Azmi for taking his oath in Hindi.

When I asked a top functionary in the government why those MLAs were
not expelled outright, he said, "If we had done that, it would have
led to by-elections and Raj Thackeray might have come back with a bang
and got more arrogant. This is our version of suspended animation; he
cannot now afford to create more trouble out of fear that there might
be more action that will actually pinch.''

Without the alleged protection offered by the previous government, I
think Raj is now truly feeling that pinch. And the Sena is not far
behind in hoisting him with his own petard and, in addition, hoisting
its own flag — both the party standard and the celluloid variety.

But, still, I believe Chhatrapati …. was a far more intelligent film –
for one, it needed no cuts, for another it touched a chord with
Maharashtra's youth — than Jhenda could ever be.

(3 votes, average: 3.67 out of 5)

Posted by Sujata Anandan on Friday, January 8, 2010 at 6:33 pm

Filed under India · Tagged Amitabh Bachchan, Bal Thackeray, bjp,
Congress, Lok Sabha polls, Mahesh Manjrekar, Raj Thackeray, Raj
Thackeray's Maharashtra Navnirman Sena, Ram Gopal Verma's Sarkar,
sarkar raj, Shiv Sainiks

14 Responses to "Jhenda ooncha rahe…"
Ashish Kolarkar says:
January 8, 2010 at 8:08 pm

Thanks Sujata for telling us about "Chhatrapati…." and its impact in
recent elections. I think so much has come in print/visual media about
Thackeray family that people have started losing interest in it. With
the desertion of Smita Thackeray the things have become too
intriguing. How come daughter-in-law basking under the glory of father-
in-law could leave the later at this stage for greater political
aspiration?

I've read a research paper which said that there is great similarity
in genes of nephew and Uncle. I think the Raj and Bal Thackeray prove
the theory. Raj has got cartooning and same eccentric nature from his
uncle. He is too unpredictable. He is on the threshold of finding his
identity after initial euphoria. It is time for him to invent more
tricks to be in the market with due help from ruling party.

Sujata Anandan Reply:

January 11th, 2010 at 6:15 pm

Yes, there is great similarity — and even in terms of events history
is repeating itself vis-a-vis Rraj Thackeray. Will write about those
by and by

Anil Kumar says:
January 8, 2010 at 9:39 pm
Congress will keep him alive.> he need not woory.> Congress always
creates fransktein .

Punjab was gifted Bhindarwale in order to check Akali Dal. Congressi
have no scruples when it coems to snatchign power they care two hoot
about even national interest.

Maharashtra was first gifted Baal thackrey to check labour uninsit and
communist's rise. now we haevRaj Thackrey to check Baal thackreey

Assam have ben figted crores of illegal bangaldeshi

List goes on and on.

Country can go to dogs as long as these gimmciks insure perpetuation
fo power of congress they are fair game for anythign and everything

Pankaj Reply:

January 9th, 2010 at 11:08 am

country is with dogs and *******!

Sujata Anandan Reply:

January 11th, 2010 at 6:16 pm

You are right on all counts

bobby says:
January 9, 2010 at 1:28 pm
Raj may be silent also because there are no elections round the
corner.

Sujata Anandan Reply:

January 11th, 2010 at 6:17 pm

Well, the municipal elections are due next year which are crucila to
him in terms of his business interests across Bombay

Anil says:
January 9, 2010 at 11:31 pm
Narayan Rane and his son are doing more goonda giri than the entire
Thackrey clan put together. There is absolutely no unfair portrayal of
the the former. They should not crib. Any portrayal of their character
will be a milder version of their true self. Ranes have been the most
unscrupulous turncoats in Maharashtra politics. No fan of Shiv Sena
but Congress have won in Maratha land becuase of the infighting in
Sena. Haven't seen 'Zhenda' but ' Mee Chhatrapati Boltoye' by Mahesh
Manjrekar is a classic Marathi film

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BmqdU0tpRk

Sujata Anandan Reply:
January 11th, 2010 at 6:19 pm

However, the producer of jhenda has given in and agreed to delete the
offending scenes — that's muscle power for you!

Sujata Anandan says:
January 11, 2010 at 6:18 pm
Well, the municipal elections are due next year which are crucial to
him in terms of his business interests…

Joe Zachs says:
January 18, 2010 at 1:43 pm
After watching Sarkar, I admire Ram Gopal Verma for how he hoodwinked
the vested interest into believing that it is a film about "His life"
A real master move Varma.

Dev says:
January 22, 2010 at 11:08 pm
I am reminded of a dialogue in a popular Hindi movie – Jhanda jish
desh ke bhi ho, danda Indian hona chahiye.
Mob rules OK.

Praveen Saxena says:
January 28, 2010 at 12:05 pm
The fact of the matter is that Raj Thakeray is a creation of the
Congress Party and a beneficiary of the mad rush 24×7 news channels.
The Congress has played these tricks in all states Maharashtra,
Punjab, Assam etc. The Kashmir mess is a result of the negligence
shown by the Congress govt at a crucial time.
The country ends paying the price for the dirty politics of the
Congress Party

Ashwatthama says:
February 6, 2010 at 11:20 am
Well Jhenda is way far superior film than Mi Shivaji…

I found MSRBB very stereotype and melodramatic and on the other side
Jhenda is extremely realistic and brilliant.

http://blogs.hindustantimes.com/singly-political/2010/01/08/jhenda-ooncha-rahe%e2%80%a6/#more-126

'Wrong of Pawar to seek Sena nod'
HT Correspondent, Hindustan Times
Mumbai, March 20, 2010

First Published: 00:51 IST(20/3/2010)
Last Updated: 00:53 IST(20/3/2010)

Chief Minister Ashok Chavan has said it was wrong of people to go to
parties like the Shiv Sena to seek permission to screen a film or hold
cricket matches.

Chavan was referring to Union Agriculture Minister and NCP chief
Sharad Pawar's meeting with Sena chief Bal Thackeray before the IPL
started to get an assurance from the Sena that the matches in Mumbai
pass peacefully.

This was soon after the Sena, protesting the attacks on Indians in
Australia, said it would not allow Australian cricketers to play in
the IPL.

"Yes, it is wrong," Chavan said in an interview to Vir Sanghvi for
CNBC-TV18's programme Off the Record with Vir Sanghvi.

Sanghvi had asked Chavan if he approved of people going to the likes
of Thackeray for permission for holding matches or screening movies.

"Sharad Pawarji is a senior leader. He is in the Union

government and they say he went to discuss the IPL matches and issues
like that….Yes, there were a lot of eyebrows raised and asking why did
he go?" Chavan said.

Chavan, in reply to another query, also said the Sena was losing
ground and the Maharashtra Navnirman Sena will probably be the main
opposition.

Chavan also talked about the trouble he was having with alliance
partner NCP in handling the Mumbai police. "There have been political
problems," he said. "I don't deny that…"

The CM also admitted that there was "politicisation" of the police
force. "We have to select people with integrity…," he said.

"Looking at the situation during 26/11, we have been cautious. We have
to put a stop to all this and see that proper people handle jobs of
equal importance and men of integrity and people with strength and
courage and the determination to fight, take charge."

On factionalism in the Mumbai police, Chavan said there have been
differences but they have been sorted out.

Tune in to Off the Record with Vir Sanghvi on CNBC-TV18 at 8 pm on
Saturday and 9 pm on Sunday.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed/mumbai/Wrong-of-Pawar-to-seek-Sena-nod/Article1-521102.aspx

Goondas, mind your own business
By Khushwant Singh

Did Shah Rukh Khan and the Maharashtra government score a decisive
victory over the Shiv Sena by showing 'My Name Is Khan' in Mumbai's
cinemas?

Did liberal elements in Karnataka score over Rama Sene by blackening
the face of Pramod Muthalik? Many of us think so and hope both senas
have been dumped on the garbage heap. Unfortunately that is not so.

Shiv Sena's balloon has no doubt been somewhat deflated but not burst.
It was the same when Rahul Gandhi travelled by suburban train, walking
down streets of Mumbai — a one time performance. And Muthalik has
wiped that soot off his face and is leading his storm troopers to
impose his will on people who do not agree with him.

My reasoning is simple: you cannot put down subversive elements
without having a strong government, which can effectively deal with
bullies. Their strength is their ability to damage property and rough
up people: No one wants to lose his property and get beaten up. The
most vulnerable are mill owners, cinema hall proprietors, eateries and
film people.

They will be eager to patch up with the Thackerays and the Muthaliks.
Take it from me that soon SRK will come to an understanding with the
Thackerays. It has been done before. Sunil Dutt and his daughter Priya
Dutt of the Congress sought Bal Thackeray's blessings before the
elections. So did Pritish Nandi to become Sena's nominee to the Rajya
Sabha.

Bal Thackeray is happy to receive important people at his residence,
Matoshree. They kowtow to him and touch his feet while he sits on his
throne draped in saffron robes and rudraksh malas, looking like a
patriarch of all he surveys. He aches to be loved to and is as liberal
in his blessings as he is in offering visitors chilled beer.

I have never met his recalcitrant nephew Raj Thackeray but his modus
operandi is much the same as his uncle's. So I fear the present
euphoria generated by the release of 'My Name Is Khan' is going to be
short-lived. We have yet to build up a mass support of those who can
confront these senas's goondas and teach them how to mind their own
business.

Bharatrihari

Almora-born Ramesh Chandra Shah was a professor of English in Hamidia
College, Bhopal, till 1997. However, he won acclaim as a Hindi poet
and novelist and was honoured with several awards. He stumbled on
Bharatrihari's poems in Sanskrit and decided to learn the language; to
be able to translate them into English. I published some selections in
'Yojana' and 'The Illustrated Weekly of India'. It is a privilege to
publish some more a third time. The translations are in rubai form and
read as well as Fitzgarald's translations of Omar Khayyam.

'Thus Spoke Bharatrihari' is divided into three sections: Niti
(polity), Sringar (erotica) and Vairagya (asceticism). First I give
examples of Sringar:
You are so lucky if you can admire The lineaments of satisfied desire
In your young bride; suck at her honey's mouth And let her languor in
your arms retire And:

The bookful blockheads preaching self-restraint Do not consider what's
really at stake Love's play on passionate breasts and thighs once
known Such amorous raptures who can ever forsake.

In the third verse he rues the futility of life spent in making love:

The joy companionship of women brings Ends in despair and
disillusionment
Self-knowledge is the only certain good Leading to calm of mind, all
passions spent.
Finally the search for salvation:

Blest are the saints who from all passions free Possess their souls
and live in ecstasy With boundless space as garment and a bowl Of rice
as food and woods as company.

And:

Drunk with delusion's ever tempting wine We mortals fail to see the
spark Divine
Caught in the vicious whirls of nights and days Our soul ne'er stops
to think of its decline Dress Code

Henry Ford II, son of Henry Ford I, who felt that his father was
generally improperly dressed and did not adhere to the correct dress
code, had the following conversation with him:

Henry Ford II: Dad, you are the biggest manufacturer of cars and a
very renowned person in America. Then why do you dress so shabbily?

Henry Ford I: Yes. I dress the way I like, as everyone in America
knows me as Henry Ford.

Henry Ford II: But, when you go abroad, there also you dress in the
same way, even in poshest of places.

Henry Ford I: Yes, of course, abroad also I dress the same way,
because there no one knows me as Henry Ford.

(Contributed by Colonel Trilok Mehrotra, Noida)

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/58941/goondas-mind-your-own-business.html

...and I am Sid Harth

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 20 2010 11:51 am
From: Sid Harth


Judicial & crime statistics, facts and figures

Following are various stats, facts and figures on crime in India and
judicial data , picked out of newspapers (mainly Hindustan Times),
magazines (mainly India Today), the BBC and various sources on the
web. These figures are not meant to be comprehensive lists, but rather
statistical trivia or factual snippets. For basic general facts and
figures about India as well as several Indian states, please see the
Quick Reference popups on the right hand side of this page, or go to
the main page of India statistics, facts and figures . For a full list
of links to our statistics pages, see the About India index or the
bottom of the right navigation bar on this page.

Lines marked with an asterisk (*) are recently added entries.

stats on court cases, murder and jails in India

- pending court cases country wide: more than 20 million (end of
2002)
- persons in jail waiting for trial: over 1 million (end of 2002)
- conviction rate of court cases: around 1 percent (according to Prem
Shankar Jha)
- number of murders in India between 1998 and 2000: 37,170
- murders committed in Uttar Pradesh: 7,200 to 7,500 per year [HT Jun
04]
- occupancy of Muzzafarnagar district jail in UP: 1,155 prisoners
(oct 03)
- capacity of Muzzafarnagar district jail in UP: 530 prisoners (oct
03)
- number of prisoners jailed in 60 prisons in Uttar Pradesh: 50,939
(oct 03)

various crime statistics and data

- people who died instantly in Bhopal on 2-3 Dec 1984 from the Union
Carbide gas
leak: 1,700 [HT May 04]
- people who have died since Dec 1984 from after effects from the
Union Carbide
gas leak in Bhopal: 22,000 [HT May 04]
- people who continue to suffer from varied diseases affecting
respiratory,
reproductive systems as a result of the 1984 Union Carbide gas leak
in Bhopal:
570,000 [HT May 04]
- * number of persons reported missing in Nithari (impoverished area
in Noida, Delhi): 41 within 2 years [REU Jan 07]
- * number of cases of kidnapping, murder and rape registered by the
CBI in
Noida relating to suspected serial killers Moninder Singh Pandher
and
Surendra Koli: 19 (CBI: (Central Bureau of Investigation) [REU Jan
07]
- * number of polythene bags containing body parts found in drains
near the
suspect: 40 [REU Jan 07]
- number of policemen in Delhi: 59,077 [HT Jun 04]
- number of finials missing at the Red Fort Delhi Gate: 10 (originals
could fetch each
about 33,600 Euro on black market)
- drop in crime in Delhi Nov 2003 (compared to Nov 2002): murder: -36
% --
robbery: -23 % -- extortion: -73 % -- rioting: -70 %
- number of crimes in the Chambal ravines (UP) within past 5 years:
approx 4,000
kidnappings & 180 murders (The UP government has proposed to combat
crimes and
bandits in the Chambal ravines by setting up a 371 acre lion safari
park with 5 lions to
attract tourists) [BBC, Aug 2005]

crime in Government / corruption

- candidates facing criminal charges in the Oct 2004 Maharashtra
election: 91 out
of 163 Shiv Sena party candidates -- 45 out of 111 BJP candidates
-- 31 out of 124
Nationalist Congress party candidates -- 30 out of 157 Congress
candidates [BBC Oct 04]
- number of UP candidates with a criminal record who made it to the
14th Lok
Sabha: at least 12 [HT May 04]
- number of Uttar Pradesh's MLAs who have been through processes of
the law
reserved for criminals: 205 (of a total of 403 MLAs - Member of the
Legislative
Assembly) [HT beginning 2004]
- amount of money taken by MPs in recent "cash for questions"
scandal:
232 - 10,000 US Dollars in bribes for asking questions in
parliament [BBC, Dec 2005]
- number of MPs suspended by India's main political parties for
taking bribes,
end 2005: 9 (Congress: 1 -- BJP: 5 -- BSP: 3) [BBC, Dec 2005]

some facts on laws, sentences & Court rules

- legal sentence for homosexuality: 10 years prison [BBC, Jan 2006]
- age of the colonial Indian Penal Code dealing with homosexuality:
145 years
[BBC, Jan 2006]
- year in which a petition for legalising homosexuality was dismissed
by the High
Court in Delhi: 2004 [BBC, Jan 2006]
- year in which the High Court in Delhi overturned the 1914
legislation and ruled
that women should be allowed to serve alcohol in public: 2005 [BBC,
Jan 2006]

"missing person" tourist stats

- number of registered "person gone missing" in the Kulu Valley (HP)
since 1992: 15
- estimated foreigners disappearance in the Kulu Valley (HP) for the
past decade: 50
(estimate by UK based pressure group Fair Trials Abroad)
- "mysterious" tourist deaths in Goa (jan 2003 - apr 2004): 59

data on crime against women

- official punishment for sex selection (i.e. abortion if child is
female): 3 years jail +
50,000 Rupees fine (equiv to 960 Euro)
- loss of female births within past 2 decades caused by abortion and
sex selection:
estimate of more than 10 million [BBC, Jan 2006]
- annual 'girl deficit' due to prenatal sex selection and selective
abortion: 500,000
according to researchers for the Lancet Journal [BBC, Jan 2006]
- rape cases pending in courts across the country: 56,000 [Oct 2003]
- * registered cases of rape in Delhi 2004: 550 [BBC, Aug 2005]
- rape cases in Delhi 2002: convicted: 98 -- acquitted: 344
- age of rape victims in Delhi: 75% are minors, and of those 25 % are
below 12 years
- registered cases of eve-teasing for Mar - Aug 2003 in Indian
metropoles: Delhi: 744
-- Mumbai:27 -- Kolkata:30 -- Chennai:143
- cases of rape for Mar - Aug 2003 in Indian metropoles: Delhi: 262
-- Mumbai: 40
-- Kolkata: 18 -- Chennai: 21
- officially recorded dowry deaths in major cities combined (Delhi,
Mumbai, Calcutta,
Chennai): 2002: 181 -- 2001: 121
- cases of crimes against women registered with the police in
Himachal Pradesh
2002: 920 (including 137 for rape, 138 for kidnap, 6 for dowry)
- Haryana cost of buffalo: 18,000 - 24,000 Rs (approx 345 - 460 Euro)
- Haryana cost of girl (human trafficking): 4000 Rs (approx 77 Euro)

some crime statistics of Himachal Pradesh
- number of cases of crime in HP from Apr 2003 to May 2004: 1,617
registered cases
- top on the Human Rights violators' list in Himachal Pradesh: Police
(HP Human
Rights Commission received 148 complaints involving police, that is
43 percent of the
complaints)
- cases registered under the NDPS Act in HP: 2002: 312 -- 2003:310
(NDPS: Narcotics, Drugs & Psychotropic Substances) [HT Mar 04]
- amount of drugs recovered by police in HP: 2002: 720 kg charas, 35
kg opium
-- 2003: 420 kg charas, 35 kg opium, 1.5 kg brown sugar
- number of police personnel involved in the annual "Destroy
Cannabis" operation
in the village of Malana in HP Sep 2004: team of 200 people from
Narcotics Control
Bureau, Kullu police and Home Guards [HT Sep 04]

stats on "Destroy Cannabis" operation in Malana Sep 2003 in HP
- cannabis growing area destroyed in Malana and surrounding: 1,100
bigha
(1 hectare = 12 bigha)
- duration of operation "Destroy Cannabis": 8 days (15 - 23
september)
- number of police or soldiers or helpers: 250 or more
- longest cannabis plant found: 15 feet 7 inches
- possible production from destroyed area: 300 kg charas
- area of destruction of cannabis fields in previous years: 1998: 939
bighas
-- 1999: 224 bighas -- 2000: 1,200 bighas -- 2002: 676 bighas (1
hectare = 12 bigha)

data sources & key:

AT: Asia Times, BBC: BBC online, BRIT: Britannica 2002, BSNL: BSNL
Telecom Trends, BSt: Business Standard, CIA: CIA Factbook India, CIN:
censusindia.net, CNEI: Chandigarh Newsline, c/net: c/net news, ConSu:
Content Sutra DI: Daily India, DNA: DNA India, EB: EquityBull, EI:
ExpressIndia, EW: EconomyWatch, FE: Financial Express, FL: Frontline,
GG: Gujarat Global, GTF: Global Technology Forum, GBoWR: Guinness Book
of World Records, HT: Hindustan Times, ID: IndiaDaily, IInfoLine:
India InfoLine IND: The Independent, ITo: India Today, NPBS: Nature
PBS, PhO: PhysOrg, RED: Rediff, REU: Reuters, Sify: Sify Broadband,
TH: The Hindu, TNJ: The News (Jang), ToI: Times of India, TT: The
Tribune,

http://www.neoncarrot.co.uk/h_aboutindia/india_crime_stats.html

Specimen Data Tables : Crime and Law

Cognizable Crimes Registered in India
(1995 to 2001)

Year Num.of Offences Ratio (IPC : SLL) Rate/100000 Inhab. Total

1995 1695696 4297476 1:2.53 5993172 -

1996 1709576 4586986 1:2.68 6296562 675.6

1997 1719820 4691439 1:2.73 6411259 671.2

1998 1778815 4403288 1:2.47 6182103 636.7

1999 1764629 3198902 1:1.78 4911730 497.8

2000 1771084 3396666 1:1.92 5167750 515.7

2001 1769308 3575230 1:02:02 5344538 520.4

Abbr.: IPC : Indian Penal Code.
SLL : Special and Local Laws.

Crime against Women

Figures at All-India / State level : (Currently showing India with
State Level consolidated figures) Andaman & Nicobar Islands |
Arunachal Pradesh | Assam | Chhattisgarh | Delhi | Goa | Himachal
Pradesh | Jharkhand | Kerala | Madhya Pradesh | Maharashtra | Manipur
| Orissa | Punjab | Rajasthan | Tamil Nadu | Tripura | Uttar Pradesh |
Uttaranchal | West Bengal |

(Data table headings are shown Year-wise in descending order)

Number of Cases Registered at National Commission for Women (NCW)
Related to Alleged Attacks on Women/Girl by Nature of Complaints in
India (01.11.2008 to 31.10.2009)

State/Age-Group-wise Victims of Total Rape Cases in India (2007)

Crime Head-wise Incidents of Crime Against Women in India (2001 to
2006)

Incidents of Custodial Rape in Police Custody in India (1995 to
2006)

Proportion of Crime Against Woman (Indian Penal Code) toward total
Indian Penal Code Crimes in India (1996 to 2006)

State-wise Number of Cases Registered (Women and Children) under
Immoral Traffic (Prevention) Act, 1956 in India (2004 to 2006)

State-wise Number of Cases Registered for Atrocities against Women
and their Status in India (2006)

State-wise Number of Missing and Traced Men, Women and Children in
India (2006)

Number of Cases Detected and Persons Arrested in Flesh Trade in
India (2003 to 2005)

Selected City-wise Number of Crime Committed Against Women in India
(2005)

State/Selected City/Age-Group-wise Victims of Other (Rape) Cases in
India (2005)

State-wise Cases Registered and Case Charge Sheeted under Cruelty
by Husband and Relatives against Women in India (2001 to 2005)

State-wise Number of Cases of Procuration of Minor Girls, Selling/
Buying of Girls for Prostitution in India (2001 to 2005)

State-wise Number of Cases Registered for Atrocities against Women
and their Status in India (2005)

State-wise Number of Cases Registered of Harassment (Molestation)
and Sexual Harassment of Women in India (2002 to 2005)

State-wise Number of Cases Registered Under Procuration of Minor
Girls in India (2003 to 2005)

State-wise Number of Cases Registered under Rape, Molestation and
Sexual Harassment in India (2005)

State-wise Number of Complaints for Harassment of Women at Work
Place Received and Disposed by National Commission for Women in India
(2002 to 2005)

State-wise Number of Complaints for Harassment of Women at Work
Place Received and Disposed of by Department of Women and Child
Development in India (2002 to 2005)

State-wise Number of Dowry Deaths Reported in India (1999 to
2005)

State-wise Number of Missing and Traced Men, Women and Children in
India (2005)

Cases Filed Against Clinics/Doctors for Communication of Sex of
Foetus in Haryana, Karnataka, Maharashtra and Punjab (As on
31.3.2004)

Different Types of Crimes Committed Against Women in India (2001 to
2004)

Month-wise Number of Complaints Received by National Commission for
Women in India (April 2003 to March 2004)

Number of Complaints of Sexual Harassment Received in Prasar
Bharati in India (2001-2002 to 2003-2004)

State/Month-wise Atrocities Complaints Received Against Women by
National Commission for Women in India (2004)

State/Month-wise Atrocities Complaints Received Against Women by
National Commission for Women in India (2004)

State-wise Number of Cases Registered for Atrocities against Women
and their Status in India (2004)

State-wise Number of Cases Registered under Rape, Molestation and
Sexual Harassment in India (2002 to 2004)

State-wise Number of Complaints for Harassment of Women at Work
Place Received by National Commission for Women and Department of
Women and Child Development in India (2002 to 2004)

State-wise Number of Missing and Traced Men, Women and Children in
India (2004)

Number of Cases of Eve-Teasing and Rape Reported in Metropolitan
Cities of India (As on 1st March 2003 to 31st August, 2003)

Category/Month-wise Complaints Received in National Commission for
Women in India (2001-2002)

City-wise Number of Rapes and Rapes with Murders in India
(2000-2002)

Different Type of Crimes Committed Against Women in India (1998 to
2002)

Nature and Number of Complaints Received Against Women in India
(January 2000 to March 2002)

State-wise Cases Reported, Persons Arrested, Charge-Sheeted and
Convicted in Custodial Rape in India (2001 and 2002)

State-wise Number of Complaints Received regarding Crime against
Women in India (1997 to 2002)

State-wise Number of Missing Girls (14-18 Years) in India (2000 to
2002)

Category/Month-wise Complaints Received in National Commission of
Women in India (April, 2000 to March, 2001)

Missing Women Registered and Percentage of Women Recovered in Six
Metropolition Cities in India (1999 to 2001)

Number of Dowry Death Cases Reported in India (During 2000-2001)

State-wise Cases Disposal of Cruelty (Husband and Relatives) by
Police and Court in India (1999 to 2001)

State-wise Disposal of Dowry Prohibition Act Cases by Police and
Court in India (1999 to 2001)

State-wise Incidence of Incest Rape Cases Registered in India (1999
to 2001)

State-wise Incidence of Molestation and Percentage Variation Over
Previous Year in India (1999-2001)

State-wise Incidence of Procuration of Minor Girls, Selling/Buying
of Girls for Prostitution in India (During 2000 to 2001)

State-wise Incidence of Total Crime Committed Against Women in
India (1999 to 2001)

Crime Head-wise Incidents of Crime Against Women in India (1990 to
2000)

Different Types of Crimes Committed Against Women in India (1990 to
2000)

Disposal of Custodial Rape Cases by Courts in India (1995 to
2000)

Disposal of Custodial Rape Cases by Police in India (1995 to
2000)

State-wise Cases Reported, Persons Arrested, Charge-Sheeted and
Convicted in Custodial Rape in India (1998 to 2000)

State-wise Incidence of Rape (upto Available Month) in India (1998
to 2000)

State-wise Incidence of Sexual Harassment and Total Crime Committed
Against Women in India (1998 to 2000)

State-wise Number of Complaints handled by the National Commission
for Women in India (1998 to 2000)

State-wise Rape Cases Reported, Chargesheeted and Convicted in
India (During 1999-2000)

State-wise Trade of Girls for Prostitution in India (1999 and
2000)

Disposal of Crimes Against Women Cases by Courts in India (1997 to
1999)

Disposal of Crimes Against Women Cases by Police in India (1997 to
1999)

State-wise Incidence of Immoral Traffic Prevention Act, Indecent
Representation of Women (Pre.) Act, Dowry Prohibition Act Committed
Against Women in India (1999) - Part III

State-wise Incidence of Molestation, Sexual Harassment (Eve-
Teasing), Importing of Girls Committed Against Women in India (1999) -
Part II

State-wise Incidence of Procuration of Minor Girls, Selling/Buying
of Girls for Prostitution in India (During 1998 to 1999)

State-wise Incidence of Rape, Kidnapping and Abduction, Dowry
Deaths and Cruelty by Husband and Relatives Committed Against Women in
India (1999) - Part I

Percentage Distribution of Various Crimes against Women in India
(1998)

State/Cities-wise Motives of Murder and Culpable Homicide Not
Amounting to Murder (C.H.) in India (1998) - Part I

State/Cities-wise Motives of Murder and Culpable Homicide Not
Amounting to Murder (C.H.) in India (1998) - Part II

State-wise Incidence of Immoral Traffic (P) Act, Indecent Rep. Of
Women (P) Act, Dowry Proh. Act Committed Against Women in India (1998)
- Part III

State-wise Incidence of Molestation, Eve-Teasing, Importing of
Girls and Sati-Prevention Act Committed Against Women in India (1998)
- Part II

State-wise Incidence of Rape, Kidnapping and Abduction, Dowry
Deaths and Cruelty by Husband and Relatives Committed Against Women in
India (1998) - Part I

Incidence and Rate of Crime Committed Against Women

Offenders Relation and Proximity to Rape Victims

Victims of Rape under Different Age Group

Releted Links
Indicators on Other Attainment

http://www.indiastat.com/crimeandlaw/6/incidenceofcrime/130/crimeagainstwomen/17911/stats.aspx

Foetiside

Figures at All-India / State level : (Currently showing India with
State Level consolidated figures) Rajasthan |

(Data table headings are shown Year-wise in descending order)

Selected State-wise Number of Ultra-Sound Machines Sealed for Non-
Maintenance of Records/Non-Registration under Pre-Conception and Pre-
Natal Determination Techniques Act (PC & PNDT) in India (2005 and
2006)

State-wise Incidence of Female Foeticide in India (1994 to 2007)

State-wise Incidence of Female Infanticide in India (1999 to
2007)

State-wise Number of Bodies Registered, Court/Police Cases and
Machines Seized/Sealed under Pre-conception and Pre-Natal Diagnostic
Techniques (Prohibition of Sex Selection) Act 1994, in India (2005)

State-wise Number of Complaints Filed in Courts against Violators
of PC and PNDT Act/Rules in India (As on 31.7.2005)

State-wise Number of Bodies Registered, Court/Police Cases and
Machines Seized/Sealed under Pre-Conception and Pre-Natal Diagnostic
Techniques (Prohibition of Sex Selection) Act 1994, in India (As on
31.3.2004)

State-wise Cases of Foeticide/Female Infanticide in India (2001 to
2003)

http://www.indiastat.com/crimeandlaw/6/incidenceofcrime/130/foetiside/207039/stats.aspx

State/City-wise Incidence and Rate of Crime Committed
Against Women in India

(2000)

1 State/City
2 Incidence
3 % of Contrib.to All-India Total
4 Est.Mid -Year Pop.(In Lakh)
5 Rate of Cognizable Crimes
6 Rank*
7 Rank**

Andhra Pradesh

1 2 3 4 5 6

14299 10.1 758.5 18.9 4 3

Arunachal Pradesh

143 0.1 12.0 11.9 16 21

Assam

3732 2.6 263.0 14.2 11 13

Bihar

6299 4.5 1005.6 6.3 25 8

Goa

100 0.1 16.1 6.2 26 24

Gujarat

6140 4.3 484.9 12.7 14 9

Haryana 2.3 199.3 16.6 7 14

Himachal Pradesh

842 0.6 67.4 12.5 15 18

Jammu & Kashmir

1634 1.2 99.9 16.4 8 17

Karnataka

5852 4.1 523.0 11.2 19 10

Kerala 3.5 323.5 15.4 9 11

Madhya Pradesh

17902 12.7 802.3 22.3 2 2

Maharashtra

13177 9.3 914.3 14.4 10 5

Manipur

74 0.1 25.4 2.9 29 25

Meghalya

69 0.0 24.5 2.8 30 26

Mizoram

133 0.1 9.6 13.9 12 22

Nagaland

22 0.0 17.0 1.3 32 28

Orissa

4717 3.3 359 6 13.1 13 12

Punjab

2156 1.5 236.2 9.1 21 16

Rajasthan

12942 9.2 538 7 24.0 1 6

Sikkim

21 0.0 5.6 3.7 28 29

Tamil Nadu

13732 9.7 619 3 22.2 3 4

Tripura

330 0.2 38.1 8.7 24 19

Uttar Pradesh

18920 13.4 1715.4 11.0 20 1

West Bengal

7043 5.0 793.3 8.9 22 7

Total States

138572 98.0 9852 4 14.1 - -

Total (All-India)
141373 100.0 10021.4 14.1 - -

Cities

Ahmedabad
510
3.0
42.8
11.9
18
10

Bangalore
1255
7.5
57.1
22.0
7
3

Bhopal
320
1.9
16.9
19.0
10
15

Chennai
4037
24.0
67.5
59.8
1
1

Coimbatore
283
1.7
13.0
21.8
8
17

Delhi (City)
2122
12.6
120.6
17.6
11
2

Hyderabad
1227
7.3
71.5
17.2
12
4

Indore
372
2.2
14.6
25.6
5
13

Jaipur
804
4.8
22.1
36.4
3
7

Kanpur
956
5.7
24.8
38.6
2
5

Kochi
125
0.7
18.3
6.8
21
23

Kolkata
558
3.3
130.6
4.3
23
9

Lucknow
683
4.1
26.7
25.5
6
8

Ludhiana
289
1.7
17.3
16.7
13
16

Madurai
380
2.3
12.8
29.6
4
12

Mumbai
888
5.3
187.1
4.7
22
6

Nagpur
443
2.6
20.9
21.2
9
11

Patna
212
1.3
13.0
16.3
14
21

Pune
352
2.1
35.9
9.8
20
14

Surat
243
1.4
24.4
10.0
19
19

Vadodara
240
1.4
16.6
14.5
17
20

Varanasi
206
1.2
13.1
15.7
16
22

Vishakhapatnam
282
1.7
17.8
15.8
15
18

Total (Cities)
16787
100.0
985.4
17.0
-
-

Note : * : Rank on the basis of rate of total cognizable crime.
** : Rank on the basis of Percentage share.

http://www.indiastat.com/6/specimen.aspx

Crime against SC/ST

Figures at All-India / State level : (Currently showing India with
State Level consolidated figures) | Andaman & Nicobar Islands | Andhra
Pradesh | Arunachal Pradesh | Assam | Bihar | Chandigarh |
Chhattisgarh | Dadra & Nagar Haveli | Daman & Diu | Delhi | Goa |
Gujarat | Haryana | Himachal Pradesh | Jammu & Kashmir | Jharkhand |
Karnataka | Kerala | Lakshadweep | Madhya Pradesh | Maharashtra |
Manipur | Meghalaya | Mizoram | Nagaland | Orissa | Pondicherry |
Punjab | Rajasthan | Sikkim | Tamil Nadu | Tripura | Uttar Pradesh |
Uttaranchal | West Bengal |

(Data table headings are shown Year-wise in descending order)

Selected State-wise Central Assistance Released and Utilised under
Provision of Protection of Civil Rights Act, 1955 and Scheduled Castes
and Scheduled Tribes (Prevention of Atrocities Act, 1989) in India
(2005-2006 to 2007-2008)

Crime-wise Disposal of Persons Arrested for Committing Crimes
Against Scheduled Tribes by Court in India (2006)

State-wise Incidence (I), Rate (R) and Percentage Contribution (P)
of Crime Committed Against Scheduled Tribes in India (2006) - Part I

State-wise Number of Cases Ending Conviction under Scheduled Castes
and Scheduled Tribes (Prevention of Atrocities Act. 1989) in India
(2004 to 2006)

State-wise Number of Cases Registered under Scheduled Castes and
Scheduled Tribes (Prevention of Atrocities) Act, 1989 in India (1998
to 2006)

Crime-wise Disposal of Persons Arrested for Committing Crimes
Against Scheduled Tribes by Court in India (2005)

State-wise Funds Released Under Protection of Civil Rights Act,
1955 and the Scheduled Castes and the Scheduled Tribe (Prevention of
Atrocities Act, 1989) in India (1997-1998 to 2004-2005)

State-wise Number of Cases Registered (CR), Persons Arrested (PA),
Persons Chargesheeted (PC), Total Persons Tried (PT), Persons
Convicted (PV) and Persons Acquitted (PQ) under Hurt of Scheduled
Castes (SC) (In Conjunction with SC/ST (P) of Atrocities Act) and PCR
Act in India (2005)

State-wise Number of Cases Registered (CR), Persons Arrested (PA),
Persons Chargesheeted (PC), Total Persons Tried (PT), Persons
Convicted (PV) and Persons Acquitted (PQ) under Hurt of Scheduled
Tribe (ST) (In Conjunction with SC/ST (P) of Atrocities Act) and PCR
Act in India (2005)

State-wise Number of Cases Registered (CR), Persons Arrested (PA),
Persons Chargesheeted (PC), Total Persons Tried (PT), Persons
Convicted (PV) and Persons Acquitted (PQ) under Kidnapping and
Abduction and Dacoity of Scheduled Tribe (ST) (In Conjunction with SC/
ST (P) of Atrocities Act) in India (2005)

State-wise Number of Cases Registered (CR), Persons Arrested (PA),
Persons Chargesheeted (PC), Total Persons Tried (PT), Persons
Convicted (PV) and Persons Acquitted (PQ) under Murder and Rape of
Scheduled Tribe (ST) (In Conjunction with SC/ST (P) of Atrocities Act)
in India (2005)

State-wise Number of Cases Registered (CR), Persons Arrested (PA),
Persons Chargesheeted (PC), Total Persons Tried (PT), Persons
Convicted (PV) and Persons Acquitted (PQ) under Robbery and Arson of
Scheduled Castes (SC) (In Conjunction with SC/ST (P) of Atrocities
Act) in India (2005)

State-wise Number of Cases Registered (CR), Persons Arrested (PA),
Persons Chargesheeted (PC), Total Persons Tried (PT), Persons
Convicted (PV) and Persons Acquitted (PQ) under Robbery and Arson of
Scheduled Tribe (ST) (In Conjunction with SC/ST (P) of Atrocities Act)
in India (2005)

State-wise Number of Cases Registered (CR), Persons Arrested (PA),
Persons Chargesheeted (PC), Total Persons Tried (PT), Persons
Convicted (PV) and Persons Acquitted (PQ) under SC/ST (P) of
Atrocities Act Only and Other Crimes Against Scheduled Castes (SC) in
India (2005)

State-wise Number of Cases Registered (CR), Persons Arrested (PA),
Persons Chargesheeted (PC), Total Persons Tried (PT), Persons
Convicted (PV) and Persons Acquitted (PQ) under SC/ST (P) of
Atrocities Act Only and Other Crimes against Scheduled Tribe (ST) in
India (2005)

State-wise Number of Cases Registered , Persons Arrested , Persons
Chargesheeted , Total Persons Tried , Persons Convicted and Persons
Acquitted under Kidnapping and Abduction and Dacoity of SC (In
Conjunction with SC/ST (P) of Atrocities Act) in India (2005)

State-wise Number of Cases Registered, Persons Arrested, Persons
Chargesheeted, Total Persons Tried, Persons Convicted and Persons
Acquitted under Murder and Rape of SC (In Conjunction with SC/ST (P)
of Atrocities Act) in India (2005)

State-wise Number of Murder Cases Registered Against Scheduled
Caste and Scheduled Tribe in India (2005)

Crime-wise Disposal of Persons Arrested for Committing Crimes
Against Scheduled Tribes by Court in India (2004)

State-wise Number of Atrocities Cases Registered under Scheduled
Castes and Scheduled Tribes (Prevention of Atrocities) Act, 1989 in
India (2002 to 2004)

Crime-wise Disposal of Persons Arrested for Committing Crimes
Against Scheduled Tribes by Court in India (2003)

Number of Cases Registered under SC/ST (POA Act 1989 and PCR Act,
1955) in India (1997 to 2003)

State-wise Cases under Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes
(Prevention of Atrocities) Act, 1989 in Regard to Disposal of Cases by
Courts, Cases Ending in Conviction and Cases Pending in Courts in
India (1999 to 2003)

State-wise Number of Cases Registered by Police, Charge Sheeted in
Courts and Cases Disposed Off by Courts under Scheduled Castes and
Scheduled Tribes (Prevention of Atrocities) Act, 1989 in India
(2003)

Crime-wise Disposal of Persons Arrested for Committing Crimes
Against Scheduled Tribes by Court in India (2002)

Selected State-wise Showing Disposal of Cases by Exclusive Special
Courts Booked Under Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes (Prevention
of Atrocities) Act, 1989 in India (31.12.2002)

State-wise Number of Cases Registered by Police, Charge Sheeted in
Courts and Cases Disposed Off by Courts under Scheduled Castes and
Scheduled Tribes (Prevention of Atrocities) Act, 1989 in India
(2002)

State-wise Police Atrocities Against Tribals in India (2000 to
2002)

State-wise Murder Committed Against SC/ST by Non-SC and ST in India
(2001 Upto available Months)

State-wise Number of Cases Registered by Police, Charge Sheeted in
the Courts and Cases Disposed off by Courts Under the Scheduled Castes
and the Secheduled Tribes (Prevention of Atrocities) in India Act,
1989 (2001)

Number of Crimes Against Scheduled Castes in India (1991 to 2000)

Percentage Share and Variation in IPC Crimes Against Scheduled
Castes in Total IPC Crimes in India (1992 to 2000)

State/UT with Maximum Percentage Contribution to Crimes against
Scheduled Caste in India (2000)

States with Maximum Percentage Contribution towards Various forms
of Crimes Committed against Scheduled Tribes (2000)

State-wise Number of Cases Acquital under Scheduled Castes and
Scheduled Tribes (Prevention of Atrocities) Act, 1989 in India (During
1998 to 2000)

State-wise Number of Cases Chargesheeted in Courts under Scheduled
Castes and Scheduled Tribes (Prevention of Atrocities) Act, 1989 in
India (During 1998 to 2000)

State-wise Number of Cases Conviction under Scheduled Castes and
Scheduled Tribes (Prevention of Atrocities) Act, 1989 in India (During
1998 to 2000)

State-wise Number of Cases Registered, Charge Sheeted in the Courts
and Cases Disposed off by Courts Under the Scheduled Castes and the
Scheduled Tribes (Prevention of Atrocities) in India Act, 1989 in
India (2000)

State-wise Number of Cases Registered, Charge Sheeted in the Courts
and Cases Disposed off by Courts Under the Scheduled Castes and the
Scheduled Tribe (Prevention of Atrocities) in India Act, 1989 (1999)

Cases Registered with Police under Different Crimes Head and
Atrocities on Scheduled Castes (SC) and Scheduled Tribes (ST) in India
(1995 to 1997)

Disposal of Cases for Committed Crimes Against Scheduled Castes by
Courts/Police

Disposal of Cases for Committed Crimes Against Scheduled Tribes by
Courts/Police

Disposal of Persons Arrested for Committing Crimes Against
Scheduled Castes by Courts/Police

Disposal of Persons Arrested for Committing Crimes Against
Scheduled Tribes by Courts/Police

Incidence of Crimes Against Scheduled Castes

Incidence of Crimes Against Scheduled Tribes

http://www.indiastat.com/crimeandlaw/6/incidenceofcrime/130/crimeagainstscst/17913/stats.aspx

Juvenile Courts

Figures at All-India / State level : (Currently showing India with
State Level consolidated figures) Gujarat | Maharashtra | Meghalaya
|

(Data table headings are shown Year-wise in descending order)
Crime Head-wise Juveniles Apprehended under IPC and SLL Crimes by
Age-Group and Sex in India (2007)
Incidence and Rate of Juvenile Delinquency under IPC in India (1988
to 2007)
Juveniles Apprehended Under IPC and SLL Crimes By Age Groups in
India (1993 to 2007)
Crime Head-wise Juveniles Apprehended under IPC and SLL Crimes by
Age Groups and Sex in India (2006)
Crime-wise Juvenile Delinquency IPC Cases in India (1995, 2000 to
2006)
Juvenile Delinquency (SLL) Under Different Crime Heads in India
(2000 to 2006)
Juveniles Apprehended by Age Group and Sex in India (1971, 1981,
1986, 1987, 1988 and 1991 to 2006)
State-wise Number of Juvenile Justice Boards and Homes Setup under
Provisions of Juvenile Justice (Care and Protection of Children) Act,
2000 in India (2006)
State-wise Number of Juveniles Staying in Observation Homes Set up
under Juvenile Justice (Care and Protection of Children) Act, 2000 in
India (August, 2006)
Crime Head-wise Juveniles Apprehended under IPC and SLL Crimes by
Age Groups and Sex in India (2005)
Disposal of Juveniles Arrested under IPC and LSL Crimes in India
(1988 to 2005)
Juveniles Apprehended under Congnizable Crime in India (1971, 1981,
1986, 1987, 1988 and 1991 to 2005)
Juveniles Arrested under IPC Cognizable Crime and Offences under
Local and Special Laws in India (1968, 1971, 1981, 1986, 1988 and 1991
to 2005) - Part I
Juveniles Arrested under IPC Cognizable Crime and Offences under
Local and Special Laws in India (1968, 1971, 1981, 1986, 1988 and 1991
to 2005) - Part II
Crime Head-wise Juveniles Apprehended under IPC and SLL Crimes by
Age Groups and Sex in India (2004)
Juvenile Delinquency in India (1971 to 2004)
Crime Head-wise Juveniles Apprehended under IPC and SLL Crimes by
Age Groups and Sex in India (2003)
Crime-wise Juveniles Apprehended by Age Group and Sex in India
(2003)
Juvenile Delinquency under Local and Special Laws (Cases Reported)
in India (1971, 1981, 1986, 1987, 1988 and 1991 to 2003)
State-wise Central Assistance Released under Programme for Juvenile
Justice in India (1997-1998 to 2002-2003)
Crime-wise Juveniles Apprehended by Age Group and Sex in India
(2001)
State-wise Number of Juvenile Courts and Junvenile Welfare Boards
in India (2000-2001)
Crime-wise Juvenile Delinquency IPC Cases in India (1991 to 2000)
Juveniles Apprehended by Age Group and Sex in India (2000)
State/City-wise Disposal of Juveniles Arrested under IPC and LSL
Crimes in India (2000)
State/City-wise Juvenile Delinquency IPC Cases in India (2000)
State/City-wise Juvenile Delinquency under Local and Special Laws
(Cases Reported) in India (2000)
State/City-wise Juveniles Delinquency Under Different Crime Heads
(IPC) in India (2000) - Part I
State/City-wise Juveniles Apprehended Under Congnizable Crime in
India (2000)
State/City-wise Juveniles Arrested under IPC Cognizable Crime and
Offences under Local and Special Laws in India (2000) - Part I
State/City-wise Juveniles Arrested under IPC Cognizable Crime and
Offences Under Local and Special Laws in India (2000) - Part II
State/City-wise Juveniles Delinquency Under Different Crime Heads
(IPC) in India (2000) - Part II
State/City-wise Juveniles Delinquency Under Different Crime Heads
(IPC) in India (2000) - Part III
State/City-wise Juveniles Delinquency Under Different Crime Heads
(SLL) in India (2000) - Part I
State/City-wise Juveniles Delinquency Under Different Crime Heads
(SLL) in India (2000) - Part II
State-wise Juvenile Delinquency under IPC in India (During 1998 to
2000)
Juveniles Apprehended by Age Group and Sex in India (1999)
State/City-wise Juveniles Apprehended under Different Crime Heads
(IPC) in India (During 1999) - Part I
State/City-wise Juveniles Apprehended under Different Crime Heads
(IPC) in India (During 1999) - Part II
State/City-wise Juveniles Apprehended under Different Crime Heads
(IPC) in India (During 1999) - Part III
States/City-wise Juvenile Delinquency under Different Crime Heads
(IPC) in India (During 1999) - Part I
States/City-wise Juvenile Delinquency under Different Crime Heads
(IPC) in India (During 1999) - Part II
States/City-wise Juvenile Delinquency under Different Crime Heads
(IPC) in India (During 1999) - Part III
States/City-wise Juvenile Delinquency under Different Crime Heads
(SLL) in India (During 1999) - Part I
States/City-wise Juvenile Delinquency under Different Crime Heads
(SLL) in India (During 1999) - Part II
States/City-wise Juveniles Apprehended under Different Crime Heads
(SLL) in India (During 1999) - Part I
States/City-wise Juveniles Apprehended under Different Crime Heads
(SLL) in India (During 1999) - Part II
States/UTs/Citywise Classification of Juveniles Arrested under IPC
and SLL Crimes by Economic-Setup and Recidivism in India (During
1999)
States/UTs/Citywise Classification of Juveniles Arrested under IPC
and SLL Crimes by Education and Family Background in India (During
1999)
States/UTs/Citywise Juveniles Apprehended under IPC Crimes by Age
Group and Sex in India (1999)
States/UTs/Citywise Juveniles Apprehended under SLL Crimes by Age
Group and Sex in India (1999)
State-wise Disposal of Juveniles Arrested under IPC and SLL Crimes
and Sent to Courts in India (1999)
State-wise Number of Juvenile Homes/Observation Homes/Special Homes/
Aftercare Institutions in India (1997-1998)
Crime Head-wise Juveniles Apprehended under IPC and SLL Crimes by
Age Groups and Sex in India (1996)
State-wise Juveniles Apprehended by Sex for Committing Crime under
IPC and SLL in India (During 1996)
State-wise Juveniles Apprehended under Different SLL Crimes in
India (1996) - Part I
State-wise Juveniles Apprehended under Different SLL Crimes in
India (1996) - Part II
State-wise Juveniles Apprehended under SLL Crimes by Age Group and
Sex in India (1996)
Crime Head-wise Juveniles Apprehended by Age Groups and Sex in
India (1995)
Juveniles Arrested under IPC Cognizable Crime and Offences under
Local and Special Laws in India (1968, 1971, 1981, 1986, 1988, 1991 to
1995) - Part III
State-wise Institution under the Juvenile Justice Act in India
(1994-1995)
Crime-wise Juvenile Delinquency IPC Cases in India (1968, 1971,
1981, 1986 and 1988)
State-wise Institutions for Neglected and Delinquent Children under
the Juvenile Justice Act, 1986 in India
State-wise Welfare Boards and Juvenile Courts under the Juvenile
Justice Act, 1986 in India

http://www.indiastat.com/crimeandlaw/6/juvenilecourts/148/stats.aspx

Crime against Child

Figures at All-India / State level : (Currently showing India with
State Level consolidated figures) Andaman & Nicobar Islands | Andhra
Pradesh | Arunachal Pradesh | Assam | Bihar | Chandigarh |
Chhattisgarh | Dadra & Nagar Haveli | Daman & Diu | Delhi | Goa |
Gujarat | Haryana | Himachal Pradesh | Jammu & Kashmir | Jharkhand |
Karnataka | Kerala | Madhya Pradesh | Maharashtra | Manipur |
Meghalaya | Mizoram | Nagaland | Orissa | Pondicherry | Punjab |
Rajasthan | Sikkim | Tamil Nadu | Tripura | Uttar Pradesh |
Uttaranchal | West Bengal |

(Data table headings are shown Year-wise in descending order)
State/Sex-wise Number of Children Traced in India (2005 to 2007)
State-wise Number of Children Missing (upto Age of 0-18 Years) in
India (2004 to 2007)
State-wise Persons Arrested under Kidnapping and Abduction in India
(2007)
Crime-wise Disposal of Persons Arrested for Committed Crimes
Against Children by Court in India (2006)
Number of Cases of Murder, Rape and Kidnapping of Abduction of
Children in (NCR Regions of Delhi) India (2004 to 2006)
State-wise Cases Registered Under Child Marriage Restraint Act in
India (March to June, 2006)
Crime-wise Disposal of Persons Arrested for Committed Crimes
Against Children by Court in India (2005)
State-wise Cases Registered, Charged sheeted, Trial Completed,
Convicted and Person Convicted Under Child Marriage Restraint Act in
India (2003 to 2005)
Crime-wise Disposal of Persons Arrested for Committed Crimes
Against Children by Court in India (2004)
Crime-wise Disposal of Persons Arrested for Committing Crimes
Against Children by Court in India (2003)
State-wise Cases Registered, Charged sheeted, Trial Completed,
Convicted and Person Convicted Under Child Marriage Restraint Act in
India (2001 to 2003)
Crime-wise Disposal of Persons Arrested for Committing Crimes
Against Children by Court in India (2002)
Victims of Child Rape in India (1992-2002)
Crime-wise Disposal of Persons Arrested for Committed Crimes
Against Children by Court in India (2001)
State-wise Child Rape Victims (upto 14 years) in India (2001)
State-wise Disposal of Persons Arrested for Committing Crimes
Against Children by Court in India (2001)
State-wise Disposal of Persons Arrested for Crimes Committed
Against Children by Police in India (2001)
State-wise Number of Cases Reported under Child Marriage Restraint
Act, 1929 in India (1999 to 2001)
Disposal of Cases for Committed Crimes Against Children by Courts/
Police
Disposal of Persons Arrested for Committed Crimes Against Children
by Courts/Police
Incidence and Rate of Committed Crimes Against Children

http://www.indiastat.com/crimeandlaw/6/incidenceofcrime/130/crimeagainstchild/17912/stats.aspx

Violent Crimes

Figures at All-India / State level : (Currently showing India with
State Level consolidated figures) Delhi | Punjab | Tamil Nadu |

(Data table headings are shown Year-wise in descending order)

State/Age Group-wise Victims of Culpable Homicide Not Amounting to
Murder in India (2007) - Part I
State/Age Group-wise Victims of Culpable Homicide Not Amounting to
Murder in India (2007) - Part II
State/Age Group-wise Victims of Murder in India (2007) - Part I
State/Age Group-wise Victims of Murder in India (2007) - Part II
State/City-wise Number of Unidentified Dead Bodies Recovered and
Inquest Conducted in India (2000 to 2007)
State-wise Disposal of Violent Crimes by Courts in India (2007) -
Part I
State-wise Disposal of Violent Crimes by Courts in India (2007) -
Part II
State-wise Disposal of Violent Crimes by Courts in India (2007) -
Part III
State-wise Disposal of Violent Crimes by Courts in India (2007) -
Part IV
State-wise Disposal of Violent Crimes by Courts in India (2007) -
Part V
State-wise Disposal of Violent Crimes by Courts in India (2007) -
Part VI
State-wise Incidence and Rate of Violent Crimes in India (2007) -
Part I
State-wise Incidence and Rate of Violent Crimes in India (2007) -
Part II
State-wise Motives of Murder and Culpable Homicide Not Amounting to
Murder (C. H.) in India (2007) - Part I
State-wise Motives of Murder and Culpable Homicide Not Amounting to
Murder (C. H.) in India (2007) - Part II
State-wise Motives of Murder and Culpable Homicide Not Amounting to
Murder (C. H.) in India (2007) - Part III
State-wise Number of Cases Registered /Disposed under Violation of
Human Rights in India (2004-2005 to 2006-2007)
State-wise Number of Victims Murdered by Use of Fire Arms in India
(2007)
State/Age Group-wise Victims of Culpable Homicide Not Amounting to
Murder in India (2006 ) - Part I
State/Age Group-wise Victims of Culpable Homicide Not Amounting to
Murder in India (2006 ) - Part II
State/Age Group-wise Victims of Murder in India (2006) - Part I
State/Age Group-wise Victims of Murder in India (2006) - Part II
State-wise Disposal of Violent Crimes by Courts in India (2006) -
Part I
State-wise Disposal of Violent Crimes by Courts in India (2006) -
Part II
State-wise Disposal of Violent Crimes by Courts in India (2006) -
Part III
State-wise Incidence and Rate of Violent Crimes in India (2006) -
Part I
State-wise Incidence and Rate of Violent Crimes in India (2006) -
Part II
State-wise Motives of Murder and Culpable Homicide not Amounting to
Murder (C.H.) in India (2006) - Part I
State-wise Motives of Murder and Culpable Homicide not Amounting to
Murder (C.H.) in India (2006) - Part II
State-wise Motives of Murder and Culpable Homicide not Amounting to
Murder (C.H.) in India (2006) - Part III
State-wise Number of Victims Murdered by Use of Fire Arms in India
(2006)
State-wise Number of Victims Murdered by Use of Fire Arms in India
(2003 to 2005)
Violent Crime (2004 and 2005)
Age Group/Gender-wise Victims of Culpable Homicide not Amounting to
Murder in India (2002 to 2004)
Age Group/Gender-wise Victims of Murder in India (2002 to 2004)
Age Group-wise Victims of Kidnapping and Abduction in India (2001
to 2004)
Crime Rate for Violent Crimes under IPC in India (1996 to 2004)
State/Age Group/Sex-wise Victims of Culpable Homicide Not Amounting
to Murder in India (2004) - Part I
State-wise Percentage Share of Violent Crimes to Total IPC Crimes
in India (2000 to 2004)
Victims of Murder by Fire-Arms in India (1999 to 2004)
Violent Crimes Reported in India (1996 to 2004)
State-wise Murder Cases Pending Investigation in India (1991 to
2003)
Violent Crime (2002 and 2003)

State-wise Number of Victims Murdered by Use of Fire Arms in India
(2001 and 2002)

Age/Gender-wise Profile of Victims of Murder in India (1999 to
2001)

Age/Gender-wise Victims of C.H. not amounting to Murder in India
(1999 to 2001)

State-wise Left Wing Extremist Violence in India (During 2000 and
2001)

Violent Crime (2000 and 2001)

Age-wise Victims of Kidnapping and Abduction in India ( 1999 and
2000)

Violent Crimes (1999)

http://www.indiastat.com/crimeandlaw/6/incidenceofcrime/130/violentcrimes/17910/stats.aspx

http://www.indiastat.com/crimeandlaw/6/incidenceofcrime/130/stats.aspx

http://www.indiastat.com/crimeandlaw/6/stats.aspx

...and I am Sid harth

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 20 2010 4:02 pm
From: bademiyansubhanallah


Crime in India
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Crime is present in various forms in India. Organized crime include
drug trafficking, gunrunning, money laundering, extortion, murder for
hire, fraud, human trafficking and poaching. Many criminal operations
engage in black marketeering, political violence, religiously
motivated violence, terrorism, and abduction. Other crimes are
homicide, robbery, assault etc. Property crimes include burglary,
theft, motor vehicle theft, and arson. Corruption is a significant
problem.

Crimes against women

Main article: Women in India

Police records show high incidence of crimes against women in India.
The National Crime Records Bureau reported in 1998 that the growth
rate of crimes against women would be higher than the population
growth rate by 2010.[1] Earlier, many cases were not registered with
the police due to the social stigma attached to rape and molestation
cases. Official statistics show that there has been a dramatic
increase in the number of reported crimes against women.[1]

Sexual Harassment

Half of the total number of crimes against women reported in 1990
related to molestation and harassment at the workplace.[1] Eve teasing
is a euphemism used for sexual harassment or molestation of women by
men. Many activists blame the rising incidents of sexual harassment
against women on the influence of "Western culture". In 1987, The
Indecent Representation of Women (Prohibition) Act was passed[2] to
prohibit indecent representation of women through advertisements or in
publications, writings, paintings, figures or in any other manner.

In 1997, in a landmark judgement, the Supreme Court of India took a
strong stand against sexual harassment of women in the workplace. The
Court also laid down detailed guidelines for prevention and redressal
of grievances. The National Commission for Women subsequently
elaborated these guidelines into a Code of Conduct for employers.[1]

While public urination is not practised by men of all ages in India,
it is socially unacceptable for girls and women to publicly urinate
when restrooms are unavailable. In other countries such as Laos,
Cambodia, and Vietnam public urination is practised by women when
there are no toilets. This leads to harassment and UTI in women.

[3] [4] [5] [6]

Dowry

Main articles: Dowry and Dowry law in India

In 1961, the Government of India passed the Dowry Prohibition Act,[7]

making the dowry demands in wedding arrangements illegal. However,
many cases of dowry-related domestic violence, suicides and murders
have been reported. In the 1980s, numerous such cases were reported.
However, recent reports show that the number of these crimes have
reduced drastically.[8]

In 1985, the Dowry Prohibition (maintenance of lists of presents to
the bride and bridegroom) rules were framed.[9]

According to these rules, a signed list of presents given at the time
of the marriage to the bride and the bridegroom should be maintained.
The list should contain a brief description of each present, its
approximate value, the name of whoever has given the present and his/
her relationship to the person.

A 1997 report[10]

claimed that at least 5,000 women die each year because of dowry
deaths, and at least a dozen die each day in 'kitchen fires' thought
to be intentional. The term for this is "bride burning" and is
criticized within India itself. Amongst the urban educated, such dowry
abuse has reduced dramatically.

Child Marriage

Child marriage has been traditionally prevalent in India and continues
to this day. Young girls live with their parents until they reach
puberty. In the past, the child widows were condemned to a life of
great agony, shaving heads, living in isolation, and shunned by the
society.[11]

Although child marriage was outlawed in 1860, it is still a common
practice.[12]

According to UNICEF's "State of the World's Children-2009" report, 47%
of India's women aged 20–24 were married before the legal age of 18,
with 56% in rural areas.[13]

The report also showed that 40% of the world's child marriages occur
in India.[14]

Female infanticides and sex selective abortions

India has a highly masculine sex ratio, the chief reason being that
many women die before reaching adulthood.[1]

Tribal societies in India have a less masculine sex ratio than all
other caste groups. This, in spite of the fact that tribal communities
have far lower levels of income, literacy and health facilities.[1]

It is therefore suggested by many experts, that the highly masculine
sex ratio in India can be attributed to female infanticides and sex-
selective abortions.

All medical tests that can be used to determine the sex of the child
have been banned in India, due to incidents of these tests being used
to get rid of unwanted female children before birth. Female
infanticide (killing of girl infants) is still prevalent in some rural
areas.[1]

The abuse of the dowry tradition has been one of the main reasons for
sex-selective abortions and female infanticides in India.

Domestic violence

The incidents of domestive violence are higher among the lower Socio-
Economic Classes (SECs). There are various instances of an inebriated
husband beating up the wife often leading to severe injuries. Domestic
violence is also seen in the form of physical abuse. The Protection of
Women from Domestic Violence Act, 2005 came into force on October 26,
2006.

Trafficking

The Immoral Traffic (Prevention) Act was passed in 1956.[15]

However many cases of trafficking of young girls and women have been
reported. These women are either forced into prostitution, domestic
work or child labor.

Illegal drug trade

India is located between two major illicit opium producing centres in
Asia - the Golden Crescent comprising Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran
and the Golden Triangle comprising Burma, Thailand and Laos.[16]

Because of such geographical location, India experiences large amount
of drug trafficking through the borders.[17]

India is the world's largest producer of licit opium.[18]

But opium is diverted to illicit international drug markets.[18]

India is a transshipment point for heroin from Southwest Asian
countries like Afghanistan and Pakistan and from Southeast Asian
countries like Burma, Laos, and Thailand.[19]

Heroin is smuggled from Pakistan and Burma, with some quantities
transshipped through Nepal.[19]

Most heroin shipped from India are destined for Europe.[19]

There have been reports of heroin smuggled from Mumbai to Nigeria for
further export.[19]

In Maharashtra, Mumbai is an important centre for distribution of drug.
[20] The most commonly used drug in Mumbai is Indian heroin (called
desi mal by the local population).[20]

Both public transportation (road and rail transportation) and private
transportation are used for this drug trade.[20]

Drug trafficking affects the country in many ways.

Drug abuse: Cultivation of illicit narcotic substances and drug
trafficking affects the health of the individuals and destroy the
economic structure of the family and society.[21]

Organized crime: Drug trafficking results in growth of organized crime
which affects social security. Organised crime connects drug
trafficking with corruption and money laundering.[21]

Political instability: Drug trafficking also aggravate the political
instability in North-West and North-East India.[22]

A survey conducted in 2003-2004 by Narcotics Control Bureau found that
India has at least four million drug addicts.[23]

The most common drugs used in India are cannabis, hashish, opium and
heroin.[23]

In 2006 alone, India's law enforcing agencies recovered 230 kg heroin
and 203 kg of cocaine.[24]

In an annual government report in 2007, the United States named India
among 20 major hubs for trafficking of illegal drugs along with
Pakistan, Afghanistan and Burma. However, studies reveal that most of
the criminals caught in this crime are either Nigerian or US nationals.
[25]

Several measures have been taken by the Government of India to combat
drug trafficking in the country. India is a party of the Single
Convention on Narcotic Drugs (1961), the Convention on Psychotropic
Substances (1971), the Protocol Amending the Single Convention on
Narcotic Drugs (1972) and the United Nations Convention Against
Illicit Traffic in Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances (1988).
[26]

An Indo-Pakistani committee was set up in 1986 to prevent trafficking
in narcotic drugs.[27]

India signed a convention with the United Arab Emirates in 1994 to
control drug trafficking.[27]

In 1995, India signed an agreement with Egypt for investigation of
drug cases and exchange of information and a Memorandum of
Understanding of the Prevention of Illicit Trafficking in Drugs with
Iran.[27]

Arms trafficking

According to a joint report published by Oxfam, Amnesty International
and the International Action Network on Small Arms (IANSA) in 2006,
there are around 40 million illegal small arms in India out of
approximately 75 million in worldwide circulation.[28]

Majority of the illegal small arms make its way into the states of
Bihar, Chhattisgarh, Uttar Pradesh, Jharkhand, Orissa and Madhya
Pradesh.[28]

In India, a used AK-47 costs $3,800 in black market.[29]

Large amount of illegal small arms are manufactured in various illegal
arms factories in Uttar Pradesh and Bihar and sold on the black market
for as little as $5.08.[28]

Chinese pistols are in demand in the illegal small arms market in
India because they are easily available and cheaper.[28]

This trend poses a significant problem for the states of Bihar, Uttar
Pradesh, Jharkhand, Chhattisgarh, Orissa, Maharashtra, West Bengal,
Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh which have influence of Naxalism.[28]

The porous Indo-Nepal border is an entry point for Chinese pistols,
AK-47 and M-16 rifles into India as these arms are used by the
Naxalites who have ties to Maoists in Nepal.[28]

In North-East India, there is a huge influx of small arms due to the
insurgent groups operating there.[30]

The small arms in North-East India come from insurgent groups in
Burma, black market in South-East Asian countries like Pakistan,
Bangladesh, Nepal and Sri Lanka, black market in Cambodia, the
People's Republic of China, insurgent groups like the Liberation
Tigers of Tamil Eelam, the Communist Party of India (Maoist), the
Communist Party of Nepal (Maoist), Indian states like Uttar Pradesh
and pilferages from legal gun factories, criminal organizations
operating in India and South Asian countries and other international
markets like Romania, Germany etc.[30]

The small arms found in North-East India are M14 rifle, M16 rifle,
AK-47, AK-56, AK-74, light machine guns, Chinese hand grenades, mines,
rocket-propelled grenades, submachine guns etc.[30]

The Ministry of External Affairs and Ministry of Home Affairs drafted
a joint proposal to the United Nations, seeking a global ban on small-
arms sales to non-state users.[28]

Poaching and wildlife trafficking

Illegal wildlife trade in India has increased.[31]

According to a report published by the Environmental Investigation
Agency (EIA) in 2004, India is the chief target for the traders of
wildlife skin.[32] Between 1994 and 2003, there have been 784 cases
where the skins of tiger, leopard or otter have been seized.[32]

Leopards, rhinoceros, reptiles, birds, insects, rare species of plants
are being smuggled into the countries in Southeast Asia and the
People's Republic of China.[31]

Between 1994 and 2003, poaching and seizure of 698 otters have been
documented in India.[32]

Kathmandu is a key staging point for illegal skins smuggled from India
bound for Tibet and PRC.[32]

The report by EIA noted there has been a lack of cross-border
cooperation between India, Nepal and the People's Republic of China to
coordinate enforcement operations and lack of political will to treat
wildlife crime effectively.[32]

The poaching of the elephants is a significant problem in Southern
India[33]

and in the North-Eastern states of Nagaland and Mizoram.[34]

The majority of tiger poaching happen in Madhya Pradesh, Uttar
Pradesh, Orissa, West Bengal, Assam and Arunachal Pradesh.[35]

Following is a comparison of reported cases of tiger and leopard
poaching from 1998 to 2003:

Year 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003

Reported cases of tiger poaching[36] 14 38 39 35 47 8
Reported cases of leopard poaching[36] 28 80 201 69 87 15

Samir Sinha, head of TRAFFIC India, the wildlife trade monitoring arm
of the World Wide Fund for Nature (WWF) and the World Conservation
Union (IUCN), told Reuters in an interview "The situation regarding
the illegal trade in wildlife parts in India is very grim. It is a
vast, a varied trade ranging from smuggling of rare medicinal plants
to butterflies to peafowls to tigers and it is difficult to predict
how big it is, but the threats and dimensions suggest that the trade
is increasing".[31]

Project Tiger, a wildlife conservation project, was initiated in 1972
and was launched by Indira Gandhi on April 1, 1973.[37]

With 23 tiger reserves, Project Tiger claimed to have succeeded.[37]

But according to critics like conservationist Billy Arjan Singh,
temporary increases in tiger population were caused by immigration due
to destruction of habitat in Nepal, not because of the widely
acclaimed success of wildlife policy in India.[37]

Cyber crime

Cases of spam, computer hacking, cyber stalking and email fraud are
rampant in India.[38]

The Information Technology Act 2000 was passed by the Parliament of
India in May 2000, aiming to curb cyber crimes and provide a legal
framework for e-commerce transactions.[39]

However Pavan Duggal, lawyer of Supreme Court of India and cyber law
expert, viewed "The IT Act, 2000, is primarily meant to be a
legislation to promote e-commerce. It is not very effective in dealing
with several emerging cyber crimes like cyber harassment, defamation,
stalking and so on".[38]

Although cyber crime cells have been set up in major cities, Duggal
noted the problem is that most cases remain unreported due to a lack
of awareness.[38]

In 2001, India and United States had set up an India-US cyber security
forum as part of a counter-terrorism dialogue.[40]

In 2006, India and the US agreed to enhance cooperation between law
enforcement agencies of the two countries in tackling cyber crimes as
part of counter-terrorism efforts.[40]

A joint US-India statement released in 2006 after talks between US
President George W. Bush and Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh
stressed that in view of the importance of cyber security and cyber
forensic research, the two countries are also carrying out discussions
on a draft protocol on cyber security.[40]

Corruption and police misconduct

Main article: Corruption in India

Corruption is widespread in India. It is prevalent within every
section and every level of the society.[41]

Corruption has taken the role of a pervasive aspect of Indian politics.
[42]

In India, corruption takes the form of bribes, evasion of tax and
exchange controls, embezzlement, etc.

Despite state prohibitions against torture and custodial misconduct by
the police, torture is widespread in police custody, which is a major
reason behind deaths in custody.[43][44]

The police often torture innocent people until a 'confession' is
obtained to save influential and wealthy offenders.[45]

G.P. Joshi, the programme coordinator of the Indian branch of the
Commonwealth Human Rights Initiative in New Delhi comments that the
main issue at hand concerning police violence is a lack of
accountability of the police.[46]

In 2006, the Supreme Court of India in a judgment in the Prakash Singh
vs. Union of India case, ordered central and state governments with
seven directives to begin the process of police reform. The main
objectives of this set of directives was twofold, providing tenure to
and streamlining the appointment/transfer processes of policemen, and
increasing the accountability of the police.[47]

In 2006, seven policemen were charge sheeted and eleven were
convicted[48]

for custodial misconduct.

Crime over time

Incidence of cognizable crimes in India 1953-2007[49]

A report published by the National Crime Records Bureau compared crime
rate from 1953 to 2006. The report noted that burglary declined over a
period of 53 years by 38% (from 1,47,379 in 1953 to 91,666 in 2006),
whereas murder has increased by 231% (from 9,803 in 1953 to 32,481 in
2006).[50]

Kidnapping has increased by 356% (from 5,261 in 1953 to 23,991 in
2006), robbery by 120% (from 8,407 in 1953 to 18,456 in 2006) and
riots by 176% (from 20,529 in 1953 to 56,641 in 2006).[50]

In 2006, 51,02,460 cognizable crimes were committed including
18,78,293 Indian Penal Code (IPC) crimes and 32,24,167 Special & Local
Laws (SLL) crimes, with an increase of 1.5% over 2005 (50,26,337).
[48]

IPC crime rate in 2006 was 167.7 compared to 165.3 in 2005 showing an
increase of 1.5% in 2006 over 2005.[48]

SLL crime rate in 2006 was 287.9 compared to 290.5 in 2005 showing a
decline of 0.9% in 2006 over 2005.[48]

Year[50] Total cog. crimes under IPC Murder Kidnapping Robbery
Burglary Riots
1953 6, 01, 964 9,802 5,261 8,407 147,
379 20, 529
2006 18, 78, 293 32,481 23,991 18,456 91,
666 56, 641

% Change in 2006 over 1953
212.0 231.0 356.0
120.0 -38.0 176.0

SOURCE: National Crime Records Bureau[50]

Crime by locale

Location has a significant impact on crime in India. In 2006, the
highest crime rate was reported in Pondicherry (447.7%) for crimes
under Indian Penal Code which is 2.7 times the national crime rate of
167.7%.[48]

Kerala reported the highest crime rate at 312.5% among states.[48]

Kolkata (71.0%) and Madurai (206.2%) were the only two mega cities
which reported less crime rate than their domain states West Bengal
(79.0%) and Tamil Nadu (227.6%).[48] Delhi, Mumbai and Bangalore have
accounted for 16.2%, 9.5% and 8.1% respectively of the total IPC
crimes reported from 35 mega cities.[48]

Indore reported the highest crime rate (769.1%) among the mega cities
in India followed by Bhopal (719.5%) and Jaipur (597.1%).[48]

Jammu & Kashmir (33.7%), Manipur (33.0%), Assam (30.4%) and Daman and
Diu and Pondicherry (29.4%) reported higher violent crime rate
compared to 18.4% at national level.[48]

Uttar Pradesh reported the highest incidence of violent crimes
accounting for 12.1% of total violent crimes in India (24,851 out of
2,05,656) followed by Bihar with 11.8% (24,271 out of 2,05,6556).[48]

Among 35 mega cities, Delhi reported 31.2% (533 out of 1,706) of total
rape cases.[48]

Madhya Pradesh has reported the highest number of rape cases (2,900)
accounting for 15.0% of total such cases reported in the country.[48]

Uttar Pradesh reported 16.9% (5,480 out of 32,481) of total murder
cases in the country and 18.4% (4,997 out of 27,230) total attempt to
murder cases.[48]

Crimes against foreigners in India

There are several instances of violent crime against foreigners in
India.[51]

Many of the crimes occur against foreigners only. Scams involving
export of jewels occur in India, which target foreign citizens.[51]

Political demonstrations are common in India. These demonstrations
often turn violent and routinely cause disruption of transportation
services, causing great inconvenience to foreign tourists in India.
Traveling alone in remote areas after dark is of particular risk to
foreigners.[52]

Because U.S. citizens' purchasing power is relatively large compared
to the general Indian population, they the preferred target for
robbery and other serious crime.[53]

In April 1999, Swaraj Damree, a tourist from Mauritius was befriended
by a group of Indians who later held him in 25 days of captivity. They
robbed him of cash amounting to US $1,500, took his travellers'
cheques, wrist watch, gold chain, bracelet, two bags and suitcase.
[54]

In 2000, two German trekkers were shot in Himachal Pradesh. A few
weeks later, two Spanish tourists were killed in Himachal Pradesh by
robbers.[55]

Many foreign tourists are victims of violent crime in Kolkata.[56]

In September 2006, criminals robbed the wallet of a British woman in
Kolkata.[56] The same month, a Japanese tourist was robbed on his way
to Sudder Street.[56] In October 2006, a foreigner was robbed in
daylight on Park Street.[56]

Petty crime

Petty crime, like pickpocketing, bag snatching etc. are widespread in
India. Theft of valuables of foreigners from luggage on trains and
buses is common. Travelers who are not in groups become easy victims
of pickpockets and purse snatchers. Purse snatchers work in crowded
areas.[57]

Passport theft

In India, stealing passports of foreigners from their luggage on
trains and buses is widespread.[51]

Theft of U.S. passports is very common, especially in major tourist
areas.[53][58]

Scam incidents

Many scams are perpetrated against foreign travelers, especially in
Jaipur, the capital of Rajasthan.[53]

Scams usually target younger foreign tourists and suggest them that
money can be made by privately transporting gems or gold or by taking
delivery abroad of expensive carpets avoiding customs duties.[53]

Such incidents pull the traveler over the course of several days and
begin with a new scam artist who offers to show the foreign traveler
the sights. They also offer cheap lodgings and meals to foreign
travellers so that they can place the traveler in the physical custody
of the scam artist and can leave the foreigner with threats and
physical coercion. In the due process, the foreigner loses his
passport.[53]

Taxi scam

There are also taxi scams present in India, whereby a foreign
traveler, who is not aware of the locations around Indian airports, is
taken for a ride round the whole airport and charged for full-fare
taxi ride while the terminal is only few hundred yards away.[57]

Overseas Security Advisory Council in a report mentioned the process
about how to avoid taxi-scam.[57]

Rape and sexual assault against foreigners

Incidents of rape and sexual assault against foreign tourists at
popular tourist spots is increasing in India. Many of the alleged
perpetrators are children of senior government officials or
politicians.[59][60]

In September 1994, Gurkirat Singh, grandson of the then CM Beant
Singh, was accused of abducting and molesting a French tourist Katia
Darnand in Chandigarh[61][62].

In March 2006, Biti Mohanty, son of a senior police official in
Orissa, raped a German tourist in Alwar, Rajasthan.[63][64]

A Japanese woman was raped in Pushkar, Rajasthan on April 2, 2006.[65]
[66] In June 2007, a South Korean was raped near Manali.[63]

In September 2007, two Japanese women were gang-raped in Agra,[63]

a popular tourist-spot in India where the Taj Mahal is situated. The
Indian state of Rajasthan, which is a popular destination among
foreign tourists with one out of every three foreign travellers
visiting the state, have been rattled by rape cases of foreign
tourists.[67]

On December 5, 2009, a Russian woman was raped in Goa by a local
politician John Fernandes. In February 2008, Scarlett Keeling, a
British national aged 15 was raped and killed in Goa [68].

In January 2010, a Russian girl aged 9 was raped in Goa [69];

referring to this and earlier cases, Russia threatened to issue an
advisory asking its citizens not to travel to the coastal state [70].

The US Bureau of Consular Affairs has warned women not to travel alone
in India.[58]

However in contrast the British Foreign office only advise women to
take normal precautions.[71]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_of_Consular_Affairs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Foreign_office

See also

Caste-related violence in India
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste-related_violence_in_India
Corruption in India
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_India
Indian mafia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_mafia
Indian political scandals
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_political_scandals
Law enforcement in India
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_enforcement_in_India
Mafia Raj
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafia_Raj
Religious violence in India
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_violence_in_India
Kala Kaccha Gang
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kala_Kaccha_Gang

Notes

^ a b c d e f g Kalyani Menon-Sen, A. K. Shiva Kumar (2001). "Women in
India: How Free? How Equal?". United Nations. http://www.un.org.in/wii.htm.
Retrieved 2006-12-24.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A._K._Shiva_Kumar http://www.un.org.in/wii.htm
^ "The Indecent Representation of Women (Prohibition) Act, 1987".
http://www.wcd.nic.in/dowryprohibitionrules.htm. Retrieved
2006-12-24.
^ http://www.indiaenvironmentportal.org.in/node/255611
^ http://www.travelblog.org/Asia/Cambodia/North/Battambang/blog-325432.html
^ http://www.getjealous.com/getjealous.php?action=showdiaryentry&diary_id=149258&go=tasha
^ http://radicalchange.wordpress.com/2008/01/04/cambodia-a-wayfarers-journey/
^ "The Dowry Prohibition Act, 1961".
http://www.wcd.nic.in/dowryprohibitionact.htm. Retrieved 2006-12-24.
^ (2006-12-19)"Women of India: Frequently Asked Questions".
2006-12-19.
http://www.kamat.com/kalranga/women/faq.htm. Retrieved 2006-12-24.
^ "The Dowry Prohibition (maintenance of lists of presents to the
bride and bridegroom) rules, 1985".
http://www.wcd.nic.in/dowryprohibitionrules.htm. Retrieved
2006-12-24.
^ Kitchen fires Kill Indian Brides with Inadequate Dowry, July 23,
1997, New Delhi, UPI
^ Jyotsna Kamat (2006-12-19). "Gandhi and Status of Women".
http://www.kamat.com/mmgandhi/gwomen.htm. Retrieved 2006-12-24.
^ BBC News | SOUTH ASIA | Child marriages targeted in India
^ http://www.unicef.org/sowc09/docs/SOWC09_Table_9.pdf
^ http://www.hindu.com/2009/01/18/stories/2009011855981100.htm
^ "The Immoral Traffic (Prevention) Act, 1956".
http://www.wcd.nic.in/act/itpa1956.htm. Retrieved 2006-12-24.
^ P. J. Alexander (2002). Policing India in the New Millennium. Allied
Publishers. pp. p658. ISBN 8177642073.
^ Caterina Gouvis Roman, Heather Ahn-Redding, Rita James Simon (2007).
Illicit Drug Policies, Trafficking, and Use the World Over. Lexington
Books. pp. p183. ISBN 0739120883.
^ a b "CIA World Factbook - India". CIA World Factbook.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/in.html.
Retrieved 2007-12-01.
^ a b c d India
^ a b c "Drug trade dynamics in India".
http://laniel.free.fr/INDEXES/PapersIndex/INDIAMOLLY/DRUGSDYNAMICSININDIA.htm.
^ a b P. J. Alexander (2002). Policing India in the New Millennium.
Allied Publishers. pp. p659. ISBN 8177642073.
^ Alain Labrousse, Laurent Laniel (2002). The World Geopolitics of
Drugs, 1998/1999. Springer. pp. p53. ISBN 1402001401.
^ a b "Mechanism in States".
http://narcoticsindia.nic.in/Mechinstates.htm.
^ Airports get scanners to check drug trafficking
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1680312.cms
^ "US names India among 20 major hubs for drug trafficking".
http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=5f7ed0c7-60a5-40fc-bbf1-7e9b4c070f59&&Headline=India+among+20+major+drug+hubs%3a+US.
^ Daniel J. Koenig (2001). International Police Cooperation: A World
Perspective. Lexington Books. pp. p172. ISBN 0739102265.
^ a b c Daniel J. Koenig (2001). International Police Cooperation: A
World Perspective. Lexington Books. pp. p173. ISBN 0739102265.
^ a b c d e f g India home to 40 million illegal small-arms
^ "Small Arms Trafficking".
http://www.havocscope.com/trafficking/smallarms.htm.
^ a b c A Narrative of Armed Ethnic Conflict, Narcotics and Small Arms
Trafficking in India's North East
^ a b c Illegal wildlife trade grows in India
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSDEL8332720070817?sp=true
^ a b c d e The Tiger Skin Trail
http://www.eia-international.org/files/reports85-1.pdf
^ R. Sukumar (1989). The Asian Elephant: Ecology and Management.
Cambridge University Press. pp. p210. ISBN 052143758X.
^ Charles Santiapillai, Peter Jackson (1990). The Asian Elephant: An
Action Plan for Its Conservation. pp. p30. ISBN 2880329973.
^ The situation in India
http://www.internatyearofthetiger.org/india.htm
^ a b Poaching & Seizure Cases
http://projecttiger.nic.in/poaching.asp#
^ a b c At least one tiger is killed by poachers every day
http://www.rediff.com/news/1998/oct/02tiger.htm
^ a b c Byte by Byte
http://www.rediff.com/netguide/2003/feb/18crime.htm
^ India cyber law comes into force
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/978231.stm
^ a b c India-US to counter cyber crime
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/978231.stm
^ Where will corruption take India? People's Union for Civil Liberties
http://www.pucl.org/Topics/Human-rights/2002/corruption.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Union_for_Civil_Liberties
^ Corruption in India
http://www.indianchild.com/corruption_in_india.htm
^ Torture main reason of death in police custody The Tribune
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2007/20070313/punjab1.htm#7
^ Custodial deaths in West Bengal and India's refusal to ratify the
Convention against Torture Asian Human Rights Commission 26 February
2004
http://www.ahrchk.net/statements/mainfile.php/2004statement/146/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_Human_Rights_Commission
^ Custodial deaths and torture in India Asian Legal Resource Centre
http://www.alrc.net/pr/mainfile.php/2004pr/41/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_Legal_Resource_Centre
^ Police Accountability in India: Policing Contaminated by Politics
http://www.hrsolidarity.net/mainfile.php/2005vol15no05/2448/
^ The Supreme Court takes the lead on police reform: Prakash Singh vs.
Union of India, CHRI
http://www.humanrightsinitiative.org/programs/aj/police/india/initiatives/writ_petition.htm
^ a b c d e f g h i j k l m n Snapshots – 2006 National Crime Records
Bureau
^ "Incidence of cognizable crimes (IPC) under different crime heads
during 1953-2007". National Crime Records Bureau.
http://ncrb.nic.in/cii2007/cii-2007/1953-2007.pdf. Retrieved
2009-11-08.
^ a b c d Snapshots (1953—2006) National Crime Records Bureau
http://ncrb.nic.in/cii2006/cii-2006/Snapshots.pdf
^ a b c "TRAVEL REPORT India".
http://www.voyage.gc.ca/dest/report-en.asp?country=128000.
^ "India". http://www.canadiancontent.net/profiles/India.html.
^ a b c d e "India 2007 Crime & Safety Report: New Delhi".
https://www.osac.gov/Reports/report.cfm?contentID=62883.
^ Foreign tourist drugged, robbed, tortured, released after 25 days
http://www.indianexpress.com/res/web/pIe/ie/daily/19990420/ige20118.html
^ India's valley of death
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/south_asia/909877.stm
^ a b c d "Shudder street".
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1070218/asp/calcutta/story_7406290.asp.
The Telegraph
^ a b c "Crime & Safety Report: Chennai".
https://www.osac.gov/Reports/report.cfm?contentID=62882.
^ a b "Consular Information Sheet: India".
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1139.html. Bureau of
Consular Affairs
^ Handle foreign tourists with care, DNA
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_handle-foreign-tourists-with-care_1124186
^ Crimes against tourists alarm tour operators, DNA
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_crimes-against-tourists-alarm-tour-operators_1123611
^ <http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?207483
^ http://www.indianexpress.com/oldStory/34517/
^ a b c "Main accused arrested in Agra tourist rape case".
http://in.news.yahoo.com/070924/211/6l4pp.html.
^ Biti Mohanty's father gets showcause notice, DNA
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_biti-mohanty-s-father-gets-showcause-notice_1075743
^ Another foreign tourist cries rape, The Times of India
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1497108.cms
^ Japanese tourist alleges rape, The Hindu
http://www.hindu.com/2006/04/20/stories/2006042006481000.htm
^ West India state troubled by rape case of foreign tourist
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2006-04/20/content_4451686.htm
^ http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article3529865.ece
^ http://www.hindustantimes.com/goa/Russian-rape-case-Goa-women-s-panel-to-seek-details/502950/H1-Article1-502942.aspx
^ http://www.telegraphindia.com/1100128/jsp/nation/story_12036988.jsp
^ (15 February 2010)"India travel advice". British Foreign Office. 15
February 2010. http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-living-abroad/travel-advice-by-country/asia-oceania/india.
Retrieved 22 February 2010.

References

New trends in drug trafficking
http://www.hindu.com/2008/01/19/stories/2008011956120300.htm
India becoming hot bed for drug trafficking: Expert
http://expressbuzz.com/edition/default.aspx
http://www.cyberlawsindia.net Cyber Crime in India
Mumbai mafia is using more sophisticated weapons then police

Further reading

Edwardes, S M (2007), Crime in India, READ BOOKS, ISBN 1406761265 .

Broadhurst, Roderic G.; Grabosky, Peter N. (2005), Cyber-Crime: The
Challenge in Asia, Hong Kong University Press, ISBN 9622097243 .

Menon, Vivek (1996), Under Siege: Poaching and Protection of Greater
One-Horned Rhinoceroses in India, TRAFFIC International, ISBN
1858501024 .

Vittal, N. (2003), Corruption in India: The Roadblock to National
Prosperity, Academic Foundation, ISBN 8171882870 .

Gupta, K. N. (2001), Corruption in India, Anmol Publications Pvt Ltd,
ISBN 8126109734 .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_India

...and I am Sid Harth


==============================================================================
TOPIC: UK RELIGIOUS SCHOOLS FORCED TO REJECT HATE
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/dcfc2e198d269895?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 20 2010 12:50 pm
From: "regn.pickfod"


Ray Fischer wrote:
> regn.pickfod <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote:
>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>> regn.pickfod <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote:
>>>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>>>> regn.pickfod <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote:
>>>>>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>>>>>> regn.pickfod <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>>>>>>>> regn.pickfod <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> regn.pickfod <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> regn.pickfod <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regn.pickfod <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your hatred is not a good reason.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nonsense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Truth. Your hatred is not a good enough reason.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robust social f
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your hatred of homoseuals is obvious.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To you, in your head.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You want to imprison and persecute gays. That is hatred.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I want the laws changed and I want Homosexuals to comply
>>>>>>>>>> with those laws and _not_ go to gaol.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You want to imprison and persecute gays. Hiding behind laws
>>>>>>>>> that you want is chickenshit cowardice.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The laws were there many years before I was born.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They do not exist now, bigot.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> They have existed and they will exist again,
>>>>>
>>>>> People reject your kind of hate.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It isn't hate,
>>>
>>> You lie in order to justify making people suffer.
>>>
>>> That is hate.
>>
>> I tell the truth to help a known minority suffering a
>
> You're a liar and a bigot.
>
Homosexuals are known to have a higher than average
symptoms of mental disease. They have a higher incidence
of self destructive tendencies which means they have a mental disorder
regardless of the Shrinks association removing Homosexuality
as an accepted mental disease only a decade or two, ago.

Your accusations are wishfull thinking.

>>>> The Homosexual lifestyle is so disapproved of there needs to be
>>>
>>> You sound like some nazi asshole spewing the usual nazi propaganda.
>>> Do you hate Jews as well?
>>
>> You keep saying I hate people
>
> Your insistence that people should be made to suffer is hate.
> But like the nazis you keep insisting that your hate is really for
> the good of all.

You cannot show where I have claimed Homosexuals should
be made to suffer because I have not made any claim like that
in this thread.

Your pathetic continual accusation of hate is a symptom of your
reliance on hate laws to maintain a thin veneer of supposed
acceptance of the Homosexual lifestyle.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 20 2010 2:12 pm
From: rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer)


regn.pickfod <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote:
>Ray Fischer wrote:
>> regn.pickfod <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote:
>>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>>> regn.pickfod <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote:
>>>>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>>>>> regn.pickfod <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote:
>>>>>>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>>>>>>> regn.pickfod <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> regn.pickfod <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> regn.pickfod <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regn.pickfod <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Fischer wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regn.pickfod <regn@mysoul.cop.au> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your hatred is not a good reason.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nonsense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Truth. Your hatred is not a good enough reason.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robust social f
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your hatred of homoseuals is obvious.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To you, in your head.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You want to imprison and persecute gays. That is hatred.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I want the laws changed and I want Homosexuals to comply
>>>>>>>>>>> with those laws and _not_ go to gaol.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You want to imprison and persecute gays. Hiding behind laws
>>>>>>>>>> that you want is chickenshit cowardice.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The laws were there many years before I was born.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They do not exist now, bigot.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They have existed and they will exist again,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> People reject your kind of hate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It isn't hate,
>>>>
>>>> You lie in order to justify making people suffer.
>>>>
>>>> That is hate.
>>>
>>> I tell the truth to help a known minority suffering a
>>
>> You're a liar and a bigot.
>>
>Homosexuals are known to have a higher than average
>symptoms of mental disease.

Is there no sleazy propaganda that you won't wallow in?

> They have a higher incidence
>of self destructive tendencies which means they have a mental disorder

You have a mental disorder therefore you should be in prison.

--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net


==============================================================================
TOPIC: DIVINE INTERVENTION
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/49395064702fcb4e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 20 2010 7:23 pm
From: usenet@mantra.com and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)


Divine Intervention

Thai filmmakers still rely on Brahmin rituals before shooting to
ensure the success of their films

The Bangkok Post
Monday, March 15, 2010

The ritual usually takes place in the open, or when the heat is
searing, under a white tent. Sometimes the chanting is audible,
sometimes not, depending on the man who's responsible for soliciting
the gods from the 31 cosmic worlds to bear down to the feast propped
up by humans. The serpent Naga is summoned, as is the avian Kinnaree.
The gods must be propitiated and fed. Only then can the cameras roll
and the director can direct, confident now that the gods are on his
side.

View picture at:
http://www.bangkokpost.com/media/content/20100312/121715.jpg

Photos by Anusorn Sakseree

It sounds like a scene from a supernatural movie but it is not;
rather, it is something that precedes every movie and TV shoot.
Perhaps it's only in Thailand that the ceremony is observed with such
solemnity and rigour by the usually chic showbiz people. The Brahmin
rite is a necessity for studio execs, directors, stars and crew who
seek comfort from the divine before they go into the set.

Usually, practitioners of traditional Thai arts, like puppetry,
masked dance or muay Thai, must perform the wai kru rite -- paying
respects to the teachers -- before going on stage. The same
philosophy seemed to have trickled into the relatively recent art of
movie-making. Since the early days, Thai film actors and directors
came from the stage, but along the way, the rite morphed into the act
of asking the assembly of Indian gods, especially Ganesha, the
protector of artists, to come down from their abodes to bless the
operation. Like other ceremonies in Buddhist Thailand, the Brahmin
influence lends mystique that is sometimes synonymous with luck,
confidence and moral uplift.

''The studio executives and directors want to go onto the set without
worries. They want the operation to be smooth,'' says Sophon
Chuwatsawasdi, who has performed the Brahmin ritual for television
and movie sets for 10 years -- though he's not ordained as a Brahmin.

''It's a way to boost the morale of the crew, to give them the
confidence that the shoot will be accident-free. For the executives,
the rite also makes them feel that the movie or the TV series will be
a financial success.''

Brahmin rites are common here. They are performed when a new building
is inaugurated, or when a homeowner wants to install a shrine.
Sometimes ordained Brahmins host the ceremony; it's believed that the
''holier'' a Brahmin is, the better -- and the higher the fees. But
there are also laypeople who've studied with Brahmins and are trusted
to perform the Brahmin rites.

Late last month, Sophon presided over the ritual before the shooting
of a new TV series, Jed Prachanban, which is adapted from an old Thai
film from the 1960s. The ceremony, pictured here, took place at the
studio of Channel 3 in Nong Khaem. It was a well-attended event with
a number of stars, as well as the director and respected family
members of Sor Asanajinda, the late actor who created the original
film.

As tradition goes, every Brahmin ritual begins with pinpointing the
auspicious time, rerk. Usually, it's the time ending with the number
9, say 10:39. Before the designated moment arrived, we witnessed
Sophon create nam mon taranee sarn, or magical water, by lighting a
candle and letting the melted wax drop into a silver bowl. The water
would be given to the film crew to sprinkle at the location of the
shoot to ward off bad spirits that might disrupt the filming.

Then it was the rite of wai kru, paying respects to the teachers,
with 15 joss sticks, which is intertwined with the act of paying
respects to the gods who rule the eight directions, from east and
rotating clockwise.

Next, Sophon chanted the prayers and proceeded to invite the gods
from the 31 worlds according to the Brahmin belief. The purpose is to
gather all the gods at the site of the ritual, and Sophon asked the
assembly to allow Ganesha to preside over this invisible meeting of
the divines. In short, Sophon is a mediator between the gods and the
humans who're asking for their favour.

Curiously, the items laid out on the propitiating table -- besides
the food and floral offerings -- also consist of a copy of the
screenplay and a digital tape to be used in the shoot. To bless them
with the power of the gods, Sophon put gold leaves on the screenplay
and the tape, thus consecrating the physical materials to be used in
the movie. Then the director and actors lined up to throw fragrant
flowers at the shrine.

The food, interestingly, was without meat -- definitely not a pig's
head. This is because Ganesha is the Elephant God, so humans must
entreat him with the food preferred for elephants, including
sugarcane, coconut, pineapple, beans, bananas plus other sweets and
fruits. ''Meat is for sacrificial rites, which is not what we're
doing,'' Sophon said.

The final step of the ritual, he explained, is to wait for the gods
to enjoy the food on the table. Then Sophon chanted another prayer to
send them back to their respective abodes.

Supernatural belief has always been part of mainstream Thai showbiz,
and even if the effects are only largely psychological, that's more
than enough for the practitioners.The first day of shooting is
usually timed to the lucky moment calculated from planetary
movements, and sometimes even the release date of a movie is
predicted by an oracle. Tradition and past figures are well-
respected; for instance, when a movie is remade from an old film
starring Mitr Chaibancha, the legendary Thai actor who died when he
fell from a helicopter while shooting in 1970, the actor who would
play the role once played by Mitr has to light joss sticks and pray
to his spirit, preferably at his shrine erected where his body fell
40 years ago.

''You could say it's superstition, but it's also wisdom,'' says
Jirasak, who declines to give his full name. Jirasak's father was an
ordained Brahmin, and he, who isn't ordained, now performs Brahmin
rites for movie sets.

''The ceremony cannot guarantee that a film will make 100 million
baht, that would be too easy!'' he says. ''The ceremony calms the
mind of the people involved, it works as something people on the set
can cling on to.

''It's like when you have a sacred tattoo, would it save you from a
bullet? Maybe not. But it gives you the confidence, the will, the
strength to go out and face the world.''

View picture at:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/media/content/20100312/121716.jpg

[Caption] Food and floral offerings to Ganesh, the god of artists,
laden the table at a recent Brahmin ritual to mark the first day of
shooting of TV series Jed Prachanban. Sophon Chuwatsawasdi (far
right) performs a Brahmin ritual which includes the blessing of a
screenplay and a shooting tape (right).

More at:
http://www.bangkokpost.com/entertainment/movie/34338/divine-intervention

Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti

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