bollywood-holywood: rec.arts.movies.local.indian - 24 new messages in 8 topics

rec.arts.movies.local.indian
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian?hl=en

rec.arts.movies.local.indian@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ***** TRIBUTES TO HINDUISM *****
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/f2830301ff715a3f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 17 2009 5:42 pm
From: usenet@mantra.com and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)

TRIBUTES TO HINDUISM

1. Mahatma Gandhi:

"Hinduism has made marvelous discoveries in things of
religion, of the spirit, of the soul. We have no eye for
these great and fine discoveries. We are dazzled by the
material progress that western science has made. Ancient
India has survived because Hinduism was not developed
along material but spiritual lines.

"India is to me the dearest country in the world, because
I have discovered goodness in it. It has been subject to
foreign rule, it is true. But the status of a slave is
preferable to that of a slave holder."

2. Henry David Thoreau:

"In the morning I bathe my intellect in the stupendous
and cosmogonal philosophy of the Bhagavad Gita in
comparison with which our modern world and its literature
seems puny.

"What extracts from the Vedas I have read fall on me like
the light of a higher and purer luminary, which describes
a loftier course through purer stratum. It rises on me
like the full moon after the stars have come out, wading
through some far stratum in the sky."

3. Arthur Schopenhauer:

"In the whole world there is no study so beneficial and
so elevating as that of the Upanishads. It has been the
solace of my life -- it will be the solace of my death."

4. Ralph Waldo Emerson said this about the Gita:

"I owed a magnificent day to the Bhagavad Gita. It was as
if an empire spoke to us, nothing small or unworthy, but
large, serene, consistent, the voice of an old
intelligence which in another age and climate had
pondered and thus disposed of the same questions which
exercise us."

The famous poem "Brahm" is an example of his Vedanta
ecstasy.

5. Wilhelm von Humboldt pronounced the Gita as:

"The most beautiful, perhaps the only true philosophical
song existing in any known tongue ... perhaps the deepest
and loftiest thing the world has to show."

6. Lord Warren Hastings, the Governor General, was very
much impressed with Hindu philosophy:

"The writers of the Indian philosophies will survive,
when the British dominion in India shall long have ceased
to exist, and when the sources which it yielded of wealth
and power are lost to remembrances."

7. Mark Twain:

"So far as I am able to judge, nothing has been left
undone, either by man or nature, to make India the most
extraordinary country that the sun visits on his rounds.
Nothing seems to have been forgotten, nothing overlooked.

"Land of religions, cradle of human race, birthplace of
human speech, grandmother of legend, great grandmother of
tradition. The land that all men desire to see and having
seen once even by a glimpse, would not give that glimpse
for the shows of the rest of the globe combined."

8. Rudyard Kipling to Fundamental Christian Missionaries:

"Now it is not good for the Christian's health to hustle
the Hindu brown for the Christian riles and the Hindu
smiles and weareth the Christian down; and the end of the
fight is a tombstone while with the name of the late
deceased and the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here who
tried to hustle the east".

9. Jules Michelet, a French historian, said:

"At its starting point in India, the birthplace of races
and religions, the womb of the world." This is what he
said of the Raamyana in 1864: "Whoever has done or willed
too much let him drink from this deep cup a long draught
of life and youth .. . Everything is narrow in the West -
- Greece is small and I stifle; Judea is dry and I pant.
Let me look toward lofty Asia, and the profound East for
a little while. There lies my great poem, as vast as the
Indian ocean, blessed, gilded with the sun, the book of
divine harmony wherein is no dissonance. A serene peace
reigns there, and in the midst of conflict an infinite
sweetness, a boundless fraternity, which spreads over all
living things, an ocean (without bottom or bound) of
love, of pity, of clemency."

10. Shri Aurobindo:

"Hinduism.....gave itself no name, because it set itself
no sectarian limits; it claimed no universal adhesion,
asserted no sole infallible dogma, set up no single
narrow path or gate of salvation; it was less a creed or
cult than a continuously enlarging tradition of the
Godward endeavor of the human spirit. An immense many-
sided and many staged provision for a spiritual self-
building and self-finding, it had some right to speak of
itself by the only name it knew, the eternal religion,
sanaatan dharm...."

11. Will Durant would like the West to learn from India,
tolerance and gentleness and love for all living things:

"Perhaps in return for conquest, arrogance and
spoliation, India will teach us the tolerance and
gentleness of the mature mind, the quiet content of the
unacquisitive soul, the calm of the understanding spirit,
and a unifying, a pacifying love for all living things."

12. Joseph Campbell:

"It is ironic that our great western civilization, which
has opened to the minds of all mankind the infinite
wonders of a universe of untold billions of galaxies
should be saddled with the tightest little cosmological
image known to mankind? The Hindus with their grandiose
Kalpas and their ideas of the divine power which is
beyond all human category (male or female). Not so alien
to the imagery of modern science that it could not have
been put to acceptable use.

"There is an important difference between the Hindu and
the Western ideas. In the Biblical tradition, God creates
man, but man cannot say that he is divine in the same
sense that the Creator is, where as in Hinduism, all
things are incarnations of that power. We are the sparks
from a single fire. And we are all fire. Hinduism
believes in the omnipresence of the Supreme God in every
individual. There is no 'fall'. Man is not cut off from
the divine. He requires only to bring the spontaneous
activity of his mind stuff to a state of stillness and he
will experience that divine principle with him."

13. Sir Monier-Williams:

The Hindus, according to him, were Spinozists more than
2,000 years before the advent of Spinoza, and Darwinians
many centuries before Darwin and Evolutionists many
centuries before the doctrine of Evolution was accepted
by scientists of the present age.

14. Carl Sagan, (the late scientist), asserts that the
dance of Nataraj signifies the cycle of evolution and
destruction of the cosmic universe (Big Bang Theory). "It
is the clearest image of the activity of God which any
art or religion can boast of."

15. Sarvepalli Radhakrishnan, a professor of Eastern
Religions at Oxford and later President of India:

"Hinduism is not just a faith. It is the union of reason
and intuition that cannot be defined but is only to be
experienced. Evil and error are not ultimate. There is no
Hell, for that means there is a place where God is not,
and there are sins which exceed his love."

End of excerpts.

Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti

== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 17 2009 5:48 pm
From: "Seon Ferguson"

Don't forget the Case system.

== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 17 2009 5:52 pm
From: uNmaiviLambi

On Dec 17, 8:48 pm, "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Don't forget the Case system.

There is nothing called case system in Hinduism. Never heard of it

== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 17 2009 6:02 pm
From: "Seon Ferguson"

"uNmaiviLambi" <tripurantaka@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:47168043-e577-4acd-92d9-13805bbbd789@r14g2000vbc.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 17, 8:48 pm, "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Don't forget the Case system.
>
> There is nothing called case system in Hinduism. Never heard of it

Case system Castle system whatever.

== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 17 2009 6:39 pm
From: dolf

Don't you mean cast system?

From the outside looking in, I'm bemused how the notion of animals
appears to have much in common with the ancient religion of the
Egyptians. It is as though the wave of mysticism rippled through to one
civilisation as another decayed.

On 18/12/09 12:48 PM, Seon Ferguson wrote:
> Don't forget the Case system.

== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 17 2009 6:41 pm
From: dolf

Don't you mean caste system?

On 18/12/09 12:48 PM, Seon Ferguson wrote:
> Don't forget the Case system.

== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 17 2009 6:50 pm
From: uNmaiviLambi

On Dec 17, 9:41 pm, dolf <dolfb...@grapple.id.au> wrote:
> Don't you mean caste system?
>
> From the outside looking in, I'm bemused how the notion of animals
> appears to have much in common with the ancient religion of the
> Egyptians. It is as though the wave of mysticism rippled through to one
> civilisation as another decayed.

There is no cast, caste, castle or case system in Hinduism either

== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 17 2009 7:17 pm
From: dolf

Evidently Hinduism is impotent to stop the caste system and untouchables
are finding faith elsewhere...

On 18/12/09 1:50 PM, uNmaiviLambi wrote:
> On Dec 17, 9:41 pm, dolf<dolfb...@grapple.id.au> wrote:
>> Don't you mean caste system?
>>
>> From the outside looking in, I'm bemused how the notion of animals
>> appears to have much in common with the ancient religion of the
>> Egyptians. It is as though the wave of mysticism rippled through to one
>> civilisation as another decayed.
>
> There is no cast, caste, castle or case system in Hinduism either

== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 17 2009 7:21 pm
From: dolf

Evidently Hinduism is impotent to stop the caste system and untouchables
are finding faith elsewhere...

Although generally identified with Hinduism, the caste system was also
observed among followers of other religions in the Indian subcontinent,
including some groups of Muslims and Christians.[1] The Indian
Constitution has outlawed caste-based discrimination, in keeping with
the socialist, secular, democratic principles that founded the
nation.[2] Caste barriers have mostly broken down in large cities,[3]
though they persist in rural areas of the country, where 72% of India's
population resides. Nevertheless, the caste system, in various forms,
continues to survive in modern India strengthened by a combination of
social perceptions and divisive politics.[4][5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_in_India

==============================================================================
TOPIC: THAI GOVERNMENT RELEASES NEW POSTAGE STAMPS ON HINDU DEITIES
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/3e600550d00bc71a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 17 2009 5:59 pm
From: usenet@mantra.com and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)

Thailand Government released new Postage Stamps on Hindu Deities

http://hinduexistence.wordpress.com/2009/12/17/thailand-government-released-new-postage-stamps-on-hindu-deities/

Please encourage the government in Bharat (aka India) to do the same!

Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 17 2009 6:03 pm
From: uNmaiviLambi

On Dec 17, 8:59 pm, use...@mantra.com and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr.
Jai Maharaj) wrote:
> Thailand Government released new Postage Stamps on Hindu Deities
>
> http://hinduexistence.wordpress.com/2009/12/17/thailand-government-re...
>
> Please encourage the government in Bharat (aka India) to do the same!
>
> Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
> Om Shanti

Thanks. Thai flag has the Hindu temple on it!!

Indian govt should be ashamed

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 17 2009 6:19 pm
From: usenet@mantra.com and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)

In article <67e34091-c892-40b7-a4e9-ab302fcf1044@p8g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
uNmaiviLambi <tripurantaka@yahoo.com> posted:

> Dr. Jai Maharaj posted:
>
> > Thailand Government released new Postage Stamps on Hindu Deities
> >
> > http://hinduexistence.wordpress.com/2009/12/17/thailand-government-re...
> >
> > Please encourage the government in Bharat (aka India) to do the same!
> >
> > Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
> > Om Shanti

> Thanks. Thai flag has the Hindu temple on it!!
>
> Indian govt should be ashamed

Indeed. The government must be asked to issue Hindu
stamps.

Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ***** HINDUISM DOES NOT PERMIT A CASTE SYSTEM *****
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/497aa19701a4f214?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 17 2009 6:05 pm
From: usenet@mantra.com and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)

Hinduism does not permit caste system

By J. G. Arora
Open Forum
The Organiser - Page 35/50
http://www.organiser.org
February 27, 2005

There is a misconception in some minds that Hindu
scriptures sanction the caste system.

Vedas, the proud possession of mankind, are the
foundation of Hinduism. Vedas are all-embracing, and
treat the entire humanity with the same respect and
dignity. Vedas speak of nobility of entire humanity
(krinvanto vishvam aryam), and do not sanction any caste
system or birth-based caste system. Mantr, numbered 10-
13-1 in Rig Veda, addresses the entire humanity as divine
children (shrunvantu vishve amrutsya putraha).
Innumerable mantras in Vedas emphasise oneness, universal
brotherhood, harmony, happiness, affection, unity and
commonality of entire humanity.

A few illustrations are given here. Vide Mantra numbered
5-60-5 in Rig Veda, the divine poet declares, "All men
are brothers; no one is big, no one is small. All are
equal." Mantra numbered 16.15 in Yajur Veda reiterates
that all men are brothers; no one is superior or
inferior. Mantra numbered 10-191-2 in Rig Veda calls upon
humanity to be united to have a common speech and a
common mind. Mantra numbered 3-30-1 in Atharv Ved enjoins
upon all humans to be affectionate and to love one
another as the cow loves her newly-born calf. Underlining
unity and harmony still further, Mantra numbered 3-30-6
in Atharv Ved commands humankind to dine together, and be
as firmly united as the spokes attached to the hub of a
chariot wheel.

The Bhagavad Gita, which contains the essence of Vedas
and Upanishads, has many shlokes that echo the Vedic
doctrine of oneness of humanity. In shloke numbered V
(29), Lord Krishna declares that He is the friend of all
creatures (suhridam sarva bhutanam) whereas shloke
numbered IX (29) reiterates that the Lord has the same
affection for all creatures, and whosoever remembers the
Lord, resides in the Lord, and the Lord resides in him.
shloke numbered XVIII (61) declares that God resides in
every heart (ishwar sarva bhutanam hrudyeshe Arjun
tishthti).

Gun(n) (Aptitude) and karm (Actions)

Hindu scriptures speak only about 'varn' which means to
'select' (one's profession, etc.) and which is not caste
or birth-based.

As per shloke numbered IV (13) of the Bhagavad Gita,
depending upon a person's gun(n) (aptitude) and karm
(actions), there are four varn. As per this shloke, a
person's varn is determined by his gun(n) and karm, and
not by his birth. Chapter XIV of the Bhagavad Gita
specifies three gun(n) viz. satv (purity), rajas (passion
and attachment) and tamas (ignorance). These three gun(n)
are present in every human in different proportions, and
determine the varna of every person. Accordingly,
depending on one's gun(n) and karm, every individual is
free to select his own varna. Consequently, if their
gun(n) and karms are different, even members of the same
family can belong to different varn. Notwithstanding the
differences in gun(n) and karm of different individuals,
Vedas treat the entire humanity with the same respect and
do not sanction any caste system or birth-based caste
system.

Veda is the Foundation

Hinduism is all-embracing and grants the same respect to
all humans, and anything to the contrary anywhere is not
sanctioned by the Vedas. Being divine revelation, the
shrutis (Vedas) are the ultimate authority on Dharma, and
represent its eternal principles whereas being human
recapitulations, smritis (recollections) can play only a
subordinate role. As per shloke numbered (6) of Chapter 2
in Manu Smriti, "Ved is the foundation of entire Dharm."
shloke numbered 2(13) of Manu Smriti specifies that
whenever shruti (ved) and smritis differ, stipulation of
Ved will prevail over smritis. In view of this position,
anything discriminatory in Manu Smriti or anywhere else
is anti-Ved, and therefore, is not sanctioned by Hinduism
and has subsequently been inserted with unholy
intentions, and deserves to be weeded out.

Besides, precise codification of Hinduism in one book is
indispensable to make Hinduism easier to be understood by
a layman. For this codification, appropriate mantras of
Vedas and Upanishads, and selected shlokes in the
Ramaayan and the Mahaabhaarat (which also includes the
Bhagavad Gita), etc. will provide the basic material.

Role of Media

In order to usher in a casteless and harmonious society,
the all-embracing and universal message of Vedas has to
be followed and spread.

Both the print and electronic media play an important
role in a country's life. They should contribute their
mite to unite various sections of the society. But in
India, most of the media are unwittingly strengthening
caste and communal divisions. By publishing divisive
articles and describing political leaders and
electorates, achievers and sports persons, and even
wrong-doers and their victims as members of a particular
caste or community, the media is strengthening the
divisions instead of unifying the society. The media
should play a positive role so that there is amity all
around.

Let Your Hearts be One

Anyone believing in the caste system is violating the
Vedic command of oneness of entire humanity. Although the
first known poem in the world appeared as the first
mantra in Rg Ved, and though the Ved and Upanishads
contain the sublimest thoughts in the sublimest language,
because of a faulty education system, most of the
educated Indians are ignorant of their rich heritage
contained in the Ved and Upanishads. Most Indians do not
know Sanskrit, the language of Vedic literature. Many
persons do not know even the meaning of their Sanskrit
names. By learning Sanskrit one can read the Vedas,
though even translated Vedic literature can be studied.

We have to ensure that we do not lose our rich Vedic
heritage as it would amount ot losing our identity. To
ensure the survival of our Vedic heritage, and to bring
about unity and harmony in society, it is imperative that
the all-embracing message of the Vedes is practised and
propagated.

(The author is a former Chief Commissioner of Income Tax.
His e-mail address is: jgarora [AT] vsnl [DOT] net )

End of forwarded message from:
http://www.organiser.org/dynamic/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=66&page=35

Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti

> TRIBUTES TO HINDUISM
>
> 1. Mahatma Gandhi:
>
> "Hinduism has made marvelous discoveries in things of
> religion, of the spirit, of the soul. We have no eye for
> these great and fine discoveries. We are dazzled by the
> material progress that western science has made. Ancient
> India has survived because Hinduism was not developed
> along material but spiritual lines.
>
> "India is to me the dearest country in the world, because
> I have discovered goodness in it. It has been subject to
> foreign rule, it is true. But the status of a slave is
> preferable to that of a slave holder."
>
> 2. Henry David Thoreau:
>
> "In the morning I bathe my intellect in the stupendous
> and cosmogonal philosophy of the Bhagavad Gita in
> comparison with which our modern world and its literature
> seems puny.
>
> "What extracts from the Vedas I have read fall on me like
> the light of a higher and purer luminary, which describes
> a loftier course through purer stratum. It rises on me
> like the full moon after the stars have come out, wading
> through some far stratum in the sky."
>
> 3. Arthur Schopenhauer:
>
> "In the whole world there is no study so beneficial and
> so elevating as that of the Upanishads. It has been the
> solace of my life -- it will be the solace of my death."
>
> 4. Ralph Waldo Emerson said this about the Gita:
>
> "I owed a magnificent day to the Bhagavad Gita. It was as
> if an empire spoke to us, nothing small or unworthy, but
> large, serene, consistent, the voice of an old
> intelligence which in another age and climate had
> pondered and thus disposed of the same questions which
> exercise us."
>
> The famous poem "Brahm" is an example of his Vedanta
> ecstasy.
>
> 5. Wilhelm von Humboldt pronounced the Gita as:
>
> "The most beautiful, perhaps the only true philosophical
> song existing in any known tongue ... perhaps the deepest
> and loftiest thing the world has to show."
>
> 6. Lord Warren Hastings, the Governor General, was very
> much impressed with Hindu philosophy:
>
> "The writers of the Indian philosophies will survive,
> when the British dominion in India shall long have ceased
> to exist, and when the sources which it yielded of wealth
> and power are lost to remembrances."
>
> 7. Mark Twain:
>
> "So far as I am able to judge, nothing has been left
> undone, either by man or nature, to make India the most
> extraordinary country that the sun visits on his rounds.
> Nothing seems to have been forgotten, nothing overlooked.
>
> "Land of religions, cradle of human race, birthplace of
> human speech, grandmother of legend, great grandmother of
> tradition. The land that all men desire to see and having
> seen once even by a glimpse, would not give that glimpse
> for the shows of the rest of the globe combined."
>
> 8. Rudyard Kipling to Fundamental Christian Missionaries:
>
> "Now it is not good for the Christian's health to hustle
> the Hindu brown for the Christian riles and the Hindu
> smiles and weareth the Christian down; and the end of the
> fight is a tombstone while with the name of the late
> deceased and the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here who
> tried to hustle the east".
>
> 9. Jules Michelet, a French historian, said:
>
> "At its starting point in India, the birthplace of races
> and religions, the womb of the world." This is what he
> said of the Raamyana in 1864: "Whoever has done or willed
> too much let him drink from this deep cup a long draught
> of life and youth .. . Everything is narrow in the West -
> - Greece is small and I stifle; Judea is dry and I pant.
> Let me look toward lofty Asia, and the profound East for
> a little while. There lies my great poem, as vast as the
> Indian ocean, blessed, gilded with the sun, the book of
> divine harmony wherein is no dissonance. A serene peace
> reigns there, and in the midst of conflict an infinite
> sweetness, a boundless fraternity, which spreads over all
> living things, an ocean (without bottom or bound) of
> love, of pity, of clemency."
>
> 10. Shri Aurobindo:
>
> "Hinduism.....gave itself no name, because it set itself
> no sectarian limits; it claimed no universal adhesion,
> asserted no sole infallible dogma, set up no single
> narrow path or gate of salvation; it was less a creed or
> cult than a continuously enlarging tradition of the
> Godward endeavor of the human spirit. An immense many-
> sided and many staged provision for a spiritual self-
> building and self-finding, it had some right to speak of
> itself by the only name it knew, the eternal religion,
> sanaatan dharm...."
>
> 11. Will Durant would like the West to learn from India,
> tolerance and gentleness and love for all living things:
>
> "Perhaps in return for conquest, arrogance and
> spoliation, India will teach us the tolerance and
> gentleness of the mature mind, the quiet content of the
> unacquisitive soul, the calm of the understanding spirit,
> and a unifying, a pacifying love for all living things."
>
> 12. Joseph Campbell:
>
> "It is ironic that our great western civilization, which
> has opened to the minds of all mankind the infinite
> wonders of a universe of untold billions of galaxies
> should be saddled with the tightest little cosmological
> image known to mankind? The Hindus with their grandiose
> Kalpas and their ideas of the divine power which is
> beyond all human category (male or female). Not so alien
> to the imagery of modern science that it could not have
> been put to acceptable use.
>
> "There is an important difference between the Hindu and
> the Western ideas. In the Biblical tradition, God creates
> man, but man cannot say that he is divine in the same
> sense that the Creator is, where as in Hinduism, all
> things are incarnations of that power. We are the sparks
> from a single fire. And we are all fire. Hinduism
> believes in the omnipresence of the Supreme God in every
> individual. There is no 'fall'. Man is not cut off from
> the divine. He requires only to bring the spontaneous
> activity of his mind stuff to a state of stillness and he
> will experience that divine principle with him."
>
> 13. Sir Monier-Williams:
>
> The Hindus, according to him, were Spinozists more than
> 2,000 years before the advent of Spinoza, and Darwinians
> many centuries before Darwin and Evolutionists many
> centuries before the doctrine of Evolution was accepted
> by scientists of the present age.
>
> 14. Carl Sagan, (the late scientist), asserts that the
> dance of Nataraj signifies the cycle of evolution and
> destruction of the cosmic universe (Big Bang Theory). "It
> is the clearest image of the activity of God which any
> art or religion can boast of."
>
> 15. Sarvepalli Radhakrishnan, a professor of Eastern
> Religions at Oxford and later President of India:
>
> "Hinduism is not just a faith. It is the union of reason
> and intuition that cannot be defined but is only to be
> experienced. Evil and error are not ultimate. There is no
> Hell, for that means there is a place where God is not,
> and there are sins which exceed his love."
>
> End of excerpts.
>
> Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
> Om Shanti

o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the educational
purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post may not
have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of the
poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption for
fair use of copyrighted works.
o If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read,
considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal name, current
e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number.
o Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by others are
not necessarily those of the poster who may or may not have read the article.

FAIR USE NOTICE: This article may contain copyrighted material the use of
which may or may not have been specifically authorized by the copyright
owner. This material is being made available in efforts to advance the
understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic,
democratic, scientific, social, and cultural, etc., issues. It is believed
that this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as
provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title
17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without
profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included
information for research, comment, discussion and educational purposes by
subscribing to USENET newsgroups or visiting web sites. For more information
go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
If you wish to use copyrighted material from this article for purposes of
your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the
copyright owner.

Since newsgroup posts are being removed
by forgery by one or more net terrorists,
this post may be reposted several times.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Desperate scoundrel jBm barfs thus...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/2a07692e0f48a84a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 17 2009 6:13 pm
From: "Arindam Banerjee"

Heh-heh.
Now which fool supports this mahabundurr jai bundurr?

<usenet@mantra.com and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)> wrote in
message news:20091217KLQ8tXq7Q80ex8f8V56QQUz@Jnv6I...
> ARINDAM BANERJEE SPREADS FALSEHOODS
>
> [ From: "Arindam Banerjee" <adda1...@bigpond.com>
> [ Newsgroups:
> alt.computer.consultants,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
> [ Subject: Re: Is Straydog blind????
> [ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009
>>
>>
>>> Did the abacus never show up in India?
>>
>> Very insightful point, Straydog. No as far as I know the
>> abacus never entered India, so representing nd
>> manipulating a number using the very not-abstract abacus
>> method was never there. . . .
>
> Arindam Banerjee continues to spread falsehoods about
> Bharat. For crying out loud, I used to carry an abacus to
> school in U.P. I had a portable version and also a larger
> one for us at home. Please read also:
>
> Excerpt:
>
> "The Abacus, as used in China and Japan, bears, on the very
> face of it, evidence of a foreign origin. The numbers are
> set down on it with the larger denomination to the left, a
> result which could come from a people either speaking and
> writing inversely, or speaking and writing directly.
> Historically, the home of the Abacus is in India..."
>
> Transactions of the Asiatic Society of Japan; Vol. XIII. Part I; July
> 1885.
> http://books.google.com/books?id=-qAMAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA5-PA44&dq=%22abacus+was+invented+in+india%22
>
> Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
> Om Shanti

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 17 2009 7:24 pm
From: Jim

On Dec 17, 6:43 pm, use...@mantra.com and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr.
Jai Maharaj) wrote:

> For crying out loud, I used to carry an abacus to
> school in U.P.

Screech!

You mean our Waikiki haole is from Michigan?! The
Upper Peninsula?

So where in Uttar Pradesh does Jay Stevens call
home?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ***** HINDUISM IS NOT TO BLAME FOR TYRANNY OF CASTE SYSTEM *****
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/930603da2aaaeadd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 17 2009 6:23 pm
From: usenet@mantra.com and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)

HINDUISM IS NOT TO BLAME FOR TYRANNY OF CASTE SYSTEM

By Dr. Vidya Bhushan Gupta

The vast majority of Westerners believe that Hinduism ranks its
followers according to caste.

Missionaries have used caste to convert Hindus, and politicians
throughout the world have used it to chastise India for social ills
ranging from poverty to nuclear explosions. Hindus have been tarred
with labels such as "Homo hierarchical." And Hinduism has been
characterized as a religion that teaches indifference to the plight
of fellow human beings.

Is the doctrine of caste rooted in revealed Hindu scriptures? Or
did victorious invaders insert it into secondary scriptures in
order to maintain their dominance?

The Vedas, Hinduism's only revealed scriptures, mention varna (from
Sanskrit root vri, meaning "to choose"), a fourfold classification
of chosen vocations. According to the allegory of cosmic Purusha in
the Vedas, all people are created from the same God. The
intellectuals are Brahmins who, like the brain of the cosmic
Purusha, think and speak; the warriors, like the arms, defend;
vaisyas (traders and farmers), like the thighs and the abdomen,
produce and consume; and the shudras (untouchables), like the feet,
do physical labor.

A text in the great Indian epic "Mahabharata" categorically states
that originally there were no classes; all people were Brahmanic to
begin with. The existing distribution arose from character and
occupation. Those given to sensual pleasures and violence became
warriors; those who subsisted by agriculture became vaisyas, and so
on. Thus, group membership was determined by aptitude and attitude,
not by birth.

In ancient times, there were examples of people who moved from one
class to another because of the vocation they chose. For example,
Valmiki, who was an untouchable, became a Brahmin, author, and a
sage after he changed his wild ways and wrote the Hindu epic
"Raamaayan."

Caste or jati as we see today, the hierarchical division of society
into about 2,000 rigid professional groups, is not mentioned in the
Vedas; however, the word "jati" is mentioned once as a group of
people born from a common progenitor. Caste seems to have been
juxtaposed on the concept of varna in secondary Hindu scriptures
such as the Puranas and Manusmriti at a later date. According to
one of the Puranas, in the beginning of time the whole human race
was of uniform perfection and happiness. Separation into castes did
not take place until a later time, when human behavior
deteriorated.

We can only speculate about the reasons for the corruption of these
secondary scriptures. Was it done to maintain the dominance of the
victorious Aryans over the dark-skinned Dravidians (another meaning
of the word "varna" is color)? Was it done to maintain a constant
supply of skilled and semiskilled laborers?

Assigning a specific role to every individual helped India maintain
social order in the face of the barbarian attacks in medieval
times, according to Abbe Dubois, a Christian missionary who worked
in India in the last century. A similar order was also prevalent in
ancient Egypt.

Although this rigid division of labor helped Indian villages
survive political upheavals, it became an instrument of
exploitation and oppression. People who were born from a union of
higher and lower castes and those who did not belong to any caste
became pariahs or untouchables, living on the fringes of society.

Caste is a sociocultural phenomenon in South Asia, not an article
of Hindu faith. Even the most conservative Muslims of Pakistan and
Sikhs of Punjab are caste-conscious. A 27-year-old Pakistani man
attending an American university was prohibited by his conservative
Muslim father from marrying a woman out of his caste. High-caste
Sikhs do not marry among low-caste Sikhs.

Such distinctions are not unusual in societies that have a long
history of colonialism. Catholics were treated as belonging to a
lower caste during the heyday of British rule in Ireland. The
British treated Indians of all castes as pariahs during the days of
the Raj. Slavery existed among the Hebrews in ancient Israel. St.
Paul regarded slavery as legal. "Let every man remain in the
calling in whch he was called. Wast thou a slave when called? Let
it not trouble thee" (1 Corinthians 7:2O-21).

St. Augustine considered slavery an expression of divine order, as
a punishment for sins. Thus the Hindu scriptures cannot be faulted
for caste any more than the Bible can be faulted for slavery.
Social evils are a product of the time, and scriptures should be
interpreted in their historical context.

Though the injustice of the caste system lingers in sections of
Indian society, Hindus and the Indian government have made great
efforts to eliminate this evil. Two reformers of the 19th century,
Raja Ram Mohan Roy and Swami Dayananda, worked tirelessly to argue
the case against casteism.

Dayananda correctly interpreted the Vedas to prove that varna does
not refer to color but to choice, to choose a profession according
to one's aptitude and attitude. Mahatma Gandhi embraced the
untouchables as children of God, lived among them, and died among
them.

India's founding fathers abolished untouchability in 1949 and
incorporated an affirmative-action plan in the constitution. The
Indian constitution guarantees 22.5 percent of the seats for
untouchables and people of lower castes. Affirmative action has
increased to the extent of 50 percent in a few states. India's
current president is from a lower class.

Short of a revolution followed by authoritarian rule, this is the
best Hindus could have done to redeem themselves from the social
sin of caste. Let's not disregard Hinduism's positive aspects:
seeing the world as one family; looking at the virtues in others,
not at their color or caste; and recognizing that God of one color
has produced people of different colors for beauty's sake.
Meanwhile, we must maintain the reform that began more than 50
years ago.

- - -

DR. VIDYA BHUSHAN GUPTA of Closter specializes in
developmental-behavioral pediatrics. He teaches at
two hospitals affiliated with the New York Medical
College and holds a research appointment at Columbia
University. He has written a handbook of developmental-
behavioral pediatrics and has published widely in
scientific journals and in the lay press. A native of
India who came to the United States in 1984, he edited
the newsletter of the Arya Samaj of Bergen County from
1991-1992 and translated Sandhya, the daily prayer of
the Hindus, into English.

* * *

"There is no superior caste. The Universe is the work of the
Immense Being. The beings created by him were only divided into
castes according to their aptitude."
- Mahaabharat, Shanti Parva 188

[ Subject: Hinduism is not to blame for tyranny of caste system
[ Newsgroups:soc.culture.punjab,soc.culture.indian,
[ soc.culture.indian.kerala,soc.culture.indian.marathi,
[ soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian.gujarati,
[ soc.culture.bengali,soc.culture.indian.delhi,soc.culture.tamil,
[ soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian.karnataka
[ From: "indian lady" <an...@erols.com>
[ Message-ID: <7a81r1$2k...@winter.news.rcn.net>
[ References: <7a5n39$a8...@morgoth.sfu.ca>
[ <7a6k6s$ee...@winter.news.rcn.net>
[ Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:45:42 -0500

Jai Maharaj
Jyotishi, Vedic Astrologer
Om Shanti

"A king, though endowed with little prowess,
starting on an expedition at the proper time, in
view of the good positions of the planets, achieves
greatness that is eulogised in the scriptures."
- Brhat Samhita, 104.60

Since newsgroup posts are being removed
by forgery by one or more net terrorists,
this post may be reposted several times.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 17 2009 7:10 pm
From: uNmaiviLambi

On Dec 17, 9:23 pm, use...@mantra.com and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr.
Jai Maharaj) wrote:
> HINDUISM IS NOT TO BLAME FOR TYRANNY OF CASTE SYSTEM

Great article. Thanks a lot. Psychopaths, idiots, crooks, Christians,
muslims, imbeciles, antisocial elements, anti-Hindus should all read
and understand this

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 17 2009 7:16 pm
From: dolf

Evidently Hinduism is impotent to stop the caste system and untouchables
are finding faith elsewhere...

On 18/12/09 2:10 PM, uNmaiviLambi wrote:
> On Dec 17, 9:23 pm, use...@mantra.com and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr.
> Jai Maharaj) wrote:
>> HINDUISM IS NOT TO BLAME FOR TYRANNY OF CASTE SYSTEM
>
> Great article. Thanks a lot. Psychopaths, idiots, crooks, Christians,
> muslims, imbeciles, antisocial elements, anti-Hindus should all read
> and understand this
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: AVERAGE RUSSIAN IS 8 TIMES POORER THAN AVERAGE EUROPEAN
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/c36bd85e1be80542?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 17 2009 6:59 pm
From: "harmony"

he has been sickled and hammered pretty good.
too bad he had too much from volga.

<usenet@mantra.com and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)> wrote in
message news:20091216Cy641L5Y0m9BeWnl3903l68@Fhnf7...
> Didn't the commie Arindam once say that he was raised by Russians?
>
> Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
> Om Shanti
>
> In article <4b2912bc$0$5341$bbae4d71@news.suddenlink.net>,
> "harmony" <aka@hotmail.com> posted:
>>
>> tambukawala bengalis, arindam's friends, and daroowala keralias still
>> don't
>> get it, do they?
>
>> Dr. Jai Maharaj posted:
>>
>> > Average Russian is 8 Times Poorer Than Average European
>> >
>> > By Pravda
>> > The Market Oracle
>> > Sunday, December 13, 2009
>> >
>> > The latest research indicated that the size of the average European's
>> > savings account is seven times greater than that of the average
>> > Russian. It would seem that the reasons are obvious -- Russians are
>> > seven times poorer than residents of the European Union. However,
>> > it's only a part of the picture. Sociologists say that 70% of
>> > Russians do not have bank deposits and 50% of them have no savings at
>> > all. Therefore, the average Russian is 8 times poorer than the
>> > average European.
>> >
>> > According to StatBanker, a financial statistics agency, the overall
>> > portfolio of funds deposited in the EU banks as of the third quarter
>> > of 2009 was 2091.2 billion Euros. Since the crisis reverberated in
>> > Europe, Europeans had fewer opportunities to save money, and the
>> > portfolio decreased by 8% within the last year, or 173.2 billion
>> > Euros. Therefore, the average European has 6,378 Euros in a savings
>> > account. If children and retired people are excluded from the
>> > calculation, the average savings account of an economically active
>> > European is 14,313 Euros.
>> >
>> > According to the same agency, the overall portfolio of funds
>> > deposited by Russians is equivalent to 152 billion Euros.
>> > Interestingly enough, the decrease in savings in Russia is comparable
>> > to that in Europe and was 8%, or 11.8 billion Euros. Simple
>> > calculations show that the average bank deposit of a Russian citizen
>> > is 6 times smaller than that of a European, and amounts to 1,071
>> > Euros. If only economically active group is considered, than the
>> > average deposit is 2,153 Euros, i.e., seven times less than in
>> > Europe.
>> >
>> > Deposit rates in Russia are three times higher than in Europe. Yet,
>> > it is twice as profitable to deposit funds in the EU as it in Russia.
>> > For example, the weighted average interest rate for deposits made in
>> > Europe in September was 2.92%, whereas in Russia it was 9.25% for
>> > Ruble deposits and 5.35% for Euro deposits.
>> >
>> > It is obvious that Russian banks offer a better rate. However,
>> > chronic Russian inflation changes the picture. Effective interest
>> > rate in Europe in September was 2.62%, while in Russia it was only
>> > 1.15%. Although the interest rate is not that high in both cases, the
>> > European one is still twice as large as the Russian one.
>> >
>> > In this research, the average working European means a person who has
>> > a stable source of income and some bank deposit. It is not that
>> > simple with Russians. Although analysts like to say that Russians'
>> > trust in banks is growing, Russians still prefer to keep their money
>> > "under thier mattress."
>> >
>> > According to a poll conducted in September by "Public Opinion" fund,
>> > 70% of Russians do not have a bank account at all. It would not be
>> > right to name poverty as the only reason. Mikhail Dyagilev, Director
>> > of the Institute for Globalization Issues, believes that one of the
>> > reasons is a fear to lose money to a bank. "People don't trust banks.
>> > They feel very vulnerable and are afraid of swindlers and even simple
>> > technical errors, "he told to Novye Izvestiya newspaper.
>> >
>> > Yet, earnings still matter the most. According to the Russian
>> > Statistics Bureau, as of the second quarter of 2009, the average
>> > monthly income of a Russian resident was approximately 17 thousand
>> > rubles. The average income of a European is 5.3 thousand dollars,
>> > while Russians make a little less than 600 dollars a month. This
>> > means that the average Russian is 8 times poorer than the average
>> > European. Mikhail Dyagilev thinks that the gap might be even bigger.
>> > "Russian people are very poor. According to a research conducted by
>> > sociologists, 10% of Russians do not have enough money to buy food.
>> > Middle class decreased to 12% within the last year, and we are just
>> > talking about the ability to buy regular consumer goods. 78% of
>> > population is just poor. People simply don't have money to save."
>> >
>> > The last data received by sociologists proves this to be true.
>> > According to Romir research center, almost half of all Russians (48%)
>> > do not save money at all. Sergey Smirnov, Director of the Institute
>> > for Social Policy, thinks that it has to do with the fact that a
>> > tradition to save existed in Europe for a long time, whereas in
>> > Russia it is nonexistent. "Our people spend all they earn on their
>> > day-to-day needs," explained the expert. He said that the gap between
>> > wealthy and poor in Russia is huge. "I do not think that we will be
>> > able to reach European rates in foreseeable future," Smirnov said.
>> >
>> > Noviye Izvestia
>> > Pravda.ru
>> >
>> > More at:
>> >
>> > http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article15771.html
>> >
>> > Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
>> > Om Shanti
>> >
>> > o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the
>> > educational
>> > purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post may
>> > not
>> > have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of
>> > the
>> > poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption
>> > for
>> > fair use of copyrighted works.
>> > o If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read,
>> > considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal name,
>> > current
>> > e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number.
>> > o Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by others
>> > are
>> > not necessarily those of the poster who may or may not have read the
>> > article.
>> >
>> > FAIR USE NOTICE: This article may contain copyrighted material the use
>> > of
>> > which may or may not have been specifically authorized by the copyright
>> > owner. This material is being made available in efforts to advance the
>> > understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic,
>> > democratic, scientific, social, and cultural, etc., issues. It is
>> > believed
>> > that this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as
>> > provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with
>> > Title
>> > 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without
>> > profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the
>> > included
>> > information for research, comment, discussion and educational purposes
>> > by
>> > subscribing to USENET newsgroups or visiting web sites. For more
>> > information
>> > go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
>> > If you wish to use copyrighted material from this article for purposes
>> > of
>> > your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the
>> > copyright owner.
>> >
>> > Since newsgroup posts are being removed
>> > by forgery by one or more net terrorists,
>> > this post may be reposted several times.
>>
>>

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 17 2009 7:06 pm
From: usenet@mantra.com and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)

Vodka and Volga water or not, the kommie has been kangarooed.

Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti

In article <4b2aeff9$0$5354$bbae4d71@news.suddenlink.net>,
"harmony" <aka@hotmail.com> posted:
>
> he has been sickled and hammered pretty good.
> too bad he had too much from volga.

> Dr. Jai Maharaj posted:
>
> > Didn't the commie Arindam once say that he was raised by Russians?
> >
> > Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
> > Om Shanti
> >
> > In article <4b2912bc$0$5341$bbae4d71@news.suddenlink.net>,
> > "harmony" <aka@hotmail.com> posted:
> >>
> >> tambukawala bengalis, arindam's friends, and daroowala keralias still
> >> don't
> >> get it, do they?
> >
> >> Dr. Jai Maharaj posted:
> >>
> >> > Average Russian is 8 Times Poorer Than Average European
> >> >
> >> > By Pravda
> >> > The Market Oracle
> >> > Sunday, December 13, 2009
> >> >
> >> > The latest research indicated that the size of the average European's
> >> > savings account is seven times greater than that of the average
> >> > Russian. It would seem that the reasons are obvious -- Russians are
> >> > seven times poorer than residents of the European Union. However,
> >> > it's only a part of the picture. Sociologists say that 70% of
> >> > Russians do not have bank deposits and 50% of them have no savings at
> >> > all. Therefore, the average Russian is 8 times poorer than the
> >> > average European.
> >> >
> >> > According to StatBanker, a financial statistics agency, the overall
> >> > portfolio of funds deposited in the EU banks as of the third quarter
> >> > of 2009 was 2091.2 billion Euros. Since the crisis reverberated in
> >> > Europe, Europeans had fewer opportunities to save money, and the
> >> > portfolio decreased by 8% within the last year, or 173.2 billion
> >> > Euros. Therefore, the average European has 6,378 Euros in a savings
> >> > account. If children and retired people are excluded from the
> >> > calculation, the average savings account of an economically active
> >> > European is 14,313 Euros.
> >> >
> >> > According to the same agency, the overall portfolio of funds
> >> > deposited by Russians is equivalent to 152 billion Euros.
> >> > Interestingly enough, the decrease in savings in Russia is comparable
> >> > to that in Europe and was 8%, or 11.8 billion Euros. Simple
> >> > calculations show that the average bank deposit of a Russian citizen
> >> > is 6 times smaller than that of a European, and amounts to 1,071
> >> > Euros. If only economically active group is considered, than the
> >> > average deposit is 2,153 Euros, i.e., seven times less than in
> >> > Europe.
> >> >
> >> > Deposit rates in Russia are three times higher than in Europe. Yet,
> >> > it is twice as profitable to deposit funds in the EU as it in Russia.
> >> > For example, the weighted average interest rate for deposits made in
> >> > Europe in September was 2.92%, whereas in Russia it was 9.25% for
> >> > Ruble deposits and 5.35% for Euro deposits.
> >> >
> >> > It is obvious that Russian banks offer a better rate. However,
> >> > chronic Russian inflation changes the picture. Effective interest
> >> > rate in Europe in September was 2.62%, while in Russia it was only
> >> > 1.15%. Although the interest rate is not that high in both cases, the
> >> > European one is still twice as large as the Russian one.
> >> >
> >> > In this research, the average working European means a person who has
> >> > a stable source of income and some bank deposit. It is not that
> >> > simple with Russians. Although analysts like to say that Russians'
> >> > trust in banks is growing, Russians still prefer to keep their money
> >> > "under thier mattress."
> >> >
> >> > According to a poll conducted in September by "Public Opinion" fund,
> >> > 70% of Russians do not have a bank account at all. It would not be
> >> > right to name poverty as the only reason. Mikhail Dyagilev, Director
> >> > of the Institute for Globalization Issues, believes that one of the
> >> > reasons is a fear to lose money to a bank. "People don't trust banks.
> >> > They feel very vulnerable and are afraid of swindlers and even simple
> >> > technical errors, "he told to Novye Izvestiya newspaper.
> >> >
> >> > Yet, earnings still matter the most. According to the Russian
> >> > Statistics Bureau, as of the second quarter of 2009, the average
> >> > monthly income of a Russian resident was approximately 17 thousand
> >> > rubles. The average income of a European is 5.3 thousand dollars,
> >> > while Russians make a little less than 600 dollars a month. This
> >> > means that the average Russian is 8 times poorer than the average
> >> > European. Mikhail Dyagilev thinks that the gap might be even bigger.
> >> > "Russian people are very poor. According to a research conducted by
> >> > sociologists, 10% of Russians do not have enough money to buy food.
> >> > Middle class decreased to 12% within the last year, and we are just
> >> > talking about the ability to buy regular consumer goods. 78% of
> >> > population is just poor. People simply don't have money to save."
> >> >
> >> > The last data received by sociologists proves this to be true.
> >> > According to Romir research center, almost half of all Russians (48%)
> >> > do not save money at all. Sergey Smirnov, Director of the Institute
> >> > for Social Policy, thinks that it has to do with the fact that a
> >> > tradition to save existed in Europe for a long time, whereas in
> >> > Russia it is nonexistent. "Our people spend all they earn on their
> >> > day-to-day needs," explained the expert. He said that the gap between
> >> > wealthy and poor in Russia is huge. "I do not think that we will be
> >> > able to reach European rates in foreseeable future," Smirnov said.
> >> >
> >> > Noviye Izvestia
> >> > Pravda.ru
> >> >
> >> > More at:
> >> >
> >> > http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article15771.html
> >> >
> >> > Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
> >> > Om Shanti
> >> >
> >> > o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the
> >> > educational
> >> > purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post may
> >> > not
> >> > have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of
> >> > the
> >> > poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption
> >> > for
> >> > fair use of copyrighted works.
> >> > o If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read,
> >> > considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal name,
> >> > current
> >> > e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number.
> >> > o Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by others
> >> > are
> >> > not necessarily those of the poster who may or may not have read the
> >> > article.
> >> >
> >> > FAIR USE NOTICE: This article may contain copyrighted material the use
> >> > of
> >> > which may or may not have been specifically authorized by the copyright
> >> > owner. This material is being made available in efforts to advance the
> >> > understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic,
> >> > democratic, scientific, social, and cultural, etc., issues. It is
> >> > believed
> >> > that this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as
> >> > provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with
> >> > Title
> >> > 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without
> >> > profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the
> >> > included
> >> > information for research, comment, discussion and educational purposes
> >> > by
> >> > subscribing to USENET newsgroups or visiting web sites. For more
> >> > information
> >> > go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
> >> > If you wish to use copyrighted material from this article for purposes
> >> > of
> >> > your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the
> >> > copyright owner.
> >> >
> >> > Since newsgroup posts are being removed
> >> > by forgery by one or more net terrorists,
> >> > this post may be reposted several times.
> >>
> >>
>
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ***** UNTOUCHABILITY IN CHRISTIANITY *****
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/6b61c8464027a68f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 17 2009 6:59 pm
From: usenet@mantra.com and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)

UNTOUCHABILITY IN CHRISTIANITY

Does Indian Christianity Allow Untouchability?

Posted September 28, 2005
Laura Kelly (laurake...@rediffmail.com)
Journalist and Christian Historian
Christian Hendersen
Anthropological Documentary producer
Kunta Runta
The Artic
Finland

We have been reading with great interest letters from
readers, that followed after publication of the article
"Ensuring equal rights to all Dalits", by Archbishop A.M.
Chinnappa and A. Philomin Raj, The Hindu, Sep 22,
2005.With some trepidation it is necessary that we have
to point out, vital points have been left out on this
important issue,hence this critique.

The Privy Council (UK) as early as 1936 had ruled out
that there is no "Scheduled caste in Indian
Christianity". To 'Cast the Nets to the Marginalized
Side' and the argument again and again in new terminology
"Dalits" is untenable both legally and morally. Dalit
Openness 'to Gods unknown' comes with a price tag - loss
of 'self' and Identity'. Dalits with their Spirituality
and life style are now protected and needs enhanced
fencing. The rituals and ceremonies of the Dalits mirror
the space that their men and women occupy in the society
and the values they cherish. The spontaneous out burst
against the utterances of the Tamil Movie star Kushboo is
a case in point, that values are still too precious.
Dalits have both men and women as priests and priestess
to talk and mediate with their Deity and to offer
sacrifices.

Theodore Wilber Elmore in his 'Dravidian Gods in Modern
Hinduism: A Study of the Local and Village Deities of
Southern India' identifies some of such ceremonies. These
rituals are well integrated into the religious life of
Hindus. Neem, Banyan and other trees are held sacred. The
worship of nature resulted itself in the preservation of
the nature. Thus the Dalit religion is eco-friendly.
Clarence Clark, in his Talks on an Indian Village,
describes this phenomenon to children in the West in
following sentences,". . . there were evil spirits all
around him (a Dalit) living in trees and streams and
large stones, and they would do him a great harm if he is
not careful." Thus Dalit religion is eco-friendly.

Victor Premasagar, "The Gods of Our Fathers - Towards A
Theology of Indian Religious and Cultural Heritage", has
called for a sensitive, critical and inclusive appraisal
of Dalit religions in the process of our theologizing. He
wonders of how capable they were in sustaining for
thousands of years the life of the communities that were
always under the threat of extinction. Abraham
Ayrookuzhiel did study the Dalit religiosity but had
remained a social scientist and never attempted to allow
Christian 'god-talk' to dialogue with Dalit cultural
resources. V. Devasahayam in his "Outside the Camp" has
made a deliberate attempt to utilize the cultural
resources of Dalits in interpreting the Biblical texts.

Dalit religion could discern the divine in natural
objects and the presence of supernatural in natural
forces. Western christian writers, whose twin mission was
to subjugate other cultures and to mutilate the Nature,
had called this world-view as 'animism' (P.Y. Luke and
John B. Carman, Village Christians and Hindu Culture
(London: Lutterworth Press, 1968)

Does Indian Christianity allow untouchablility?

The Synod of Diamper held 1599 at Diamper (Udiamperur,
Kerala ), India; pressure was brought on Syrian
Christians temporarily to accept Roman Church as Malabar
Uniate Church, clearly recognized and endorsed the Indian
caste system within the Roman Catholic Church. This is
held intact even today with the Doctrines of the Roman
Church, even though the constitution of India has
abolished untouchablility within Hinduism. It is
surprising both the authors of the article have skirted
the key issue.

Roberto De Nobili, Francis Xavier and John Britto all
practiced untouchability.Jesuits like Nobili claimed
himself to be a Brahmin from Rome and administered the
Eucharist on a long pole to the new "untouchable
converts".(sic)

In a reply to a question are not Christians entitled to
combat untouchablility, Mahatma Gandhi said, "Not only
are the Christians entitled, but it is their duty to
combat untouchablility in their own midst. But if the
question is that Christians should combat untouchablility
in Hinduism my answer is that they simply cannot do it
because untouchablility of Hinduism should not be
untouchablility of Christians. The anti-untouchablility
movement means weaning Hindus from their error. This
cannot be effectively done by non-Hindus, even as Hindus
cannot bring about religious reform among Christians and
Mussalmans. If the question means that Christian should
combat untouchablility among Hindus by converting
untouchables to Christianity they do not advance the
cause in any shape or form; the cause being reform among
caste Hindus. If the latter repented their sin the
Harijans would be delivered from the yoke of
untouchablility in a moment. Conversion can never do it.
It can only add to the prevailing bitterness and
introduce a disturbing factor in a situation which is
already bad".

Most Pakistani Christians today still do the same work as
their untouchable ancestors: sweeping the streets and
doing other menial jobs deemed ritually or literally
unclean by higher-caste Hindus. (The Untouchables' Church
despite a Catholic bishop's protest suicide in 1998,
Christians holds little hope for repeal of blasphemy law,
Ethan Casey in Pakistan. Christianity Today Magazine.)

The Term Dalit Christian is a misnomer. Mr.V. T.
Rajshekhar, editor of "Dalit Voice" had very aptly
described the Unchristian side of the Indian Church. In
his article of above name published in "Dalit Voice" some
years ago, he had commented that the missionaries are
educating the children of oppressors, who tomorrow will
come to power and see that these very schools, where they
obtained first lessons of alphabets, be closed. It is
like feeding milk to the serpents' offsprings. He had
also suggested that at least 50% of seats in all
Christian convents must be given only to SCs and STs at
no charge, and the deficit be made good by charging
double fees from the children of oppressors. I do not
think that article made any dent on missionaries; they
are following their own ways says Dr. K. Jamanadas in his
Dalit Identity.

On May 9, 2001, the Asian Human Rights Commission (AHRC)
sent its first open letter to the Rev. Fr. Peter-Hans
Kolvenbach, the superior general of the Jesuit order in
Rome, about the expulsion from the order of Fr. Pallath
J. Joseph of the Kerala Province of Jesuits in India.
This article continues the series of open letters that
have ensued to the superior general about Fr. Pallath's
case. Because each letter begins with the same
introduction stating the facts of the case, these have
been omitted after the fifth letter below. For further
details about the expulsion of Fr. Pallath from the
Jesuit order, see the web site created by AHRC at
http://jjpallath.ahrchk.net.}

Mr.P.N.Benjamin wrote for the Deccan Herald on the eve of
the Synod said, "The Church has sinned more than others
in perpetuating social injustices against Dalit
Christians. In Indian Christian communities, caste
discrimination takes many forms. There are some churches
built for separate groups. These places of worship even
today retain their caste identity. Another example of
casteist practice is allotting separate places in
churches. Usually, the Christians of Scheduled Caste
origins occupy the rear of the church. A glaring instance
of caste distinction is found among the dead. The dead of
the Dalit communities are buried in separate cemeteries."

There is rampant casteist mentality in Christianity that
takes pride in the egalitarian nature of its society. Its
missionaries sell dignity to the underclasses in the
Hindu society but forget about it after their conversion
to Christianity. The Hindu society at least throws up
periodically reformers who champion the cause of Dalits
who are useful to Christianity only to swell its flock.
Only two years ago, the Catholic bishops meeting at
Varanasi resolved to bury casteism among Christians.

The appointment of India's first "Dalit"(low caste)
archbishop evoked mixed reactions among church community
in Andhra Pradesh. The Vatican came under attack for
ignoring "ground realities'' in transferring Bishop
Marampudi Joji of Vijayawada to Hyderabad, while others
said his promotion as the state's metropolitan archbishop
will bring "new life'' to the million-strong Andhra
church. Expressing shock over the appointment, outgoing
Archbishop Samineni Arulappa of Hyderabad said, "Rome is
being taken for a ride. Rome does not know the ground
realities.'' He belongs to the upper caste Naidu
community.

Out of 156 Catholic bishops in India, 150 bishops belong
to the upper castes. Only six bishops are Dalits. Out of
12,500 Catholic priests, only 600 are from Dalit
community. Though Dalits constitute 75 per cent of the
Indian Christian community, the control over church is in
the hands of 25 per cent upper caste Christians. (Outlook
Magazine Aug ,30 )

It is not as though the problems of Dalit Christians have
not received attention from the government. Several
commissions appointed by the government have referred to
the disabilities Dalits suffered in Christian society.
Kaka Kalelkar, chairman of the Backward Classes
Commission of 1955, said, "We discovered with deep pain
and sorrow that untouchablility did obtain in the extreme
south among Indian Christians, and Indian Christians were
prepared in many places to assert that they were still
guided by caste, not only in the matter of
untouchablility, but in social hierarchy of high and low.
While the Harijans among the Hindus, classified as
scheduled castes stand a fair chance of bettering their
condition under the Indian government's reservation
policy, their Christian counterparts stand twice
discriminated."

On the eve of Pope John Paul's visit to India in November
of 1999, Dr Mary John, president of Dalit Christian
Liberation Movement, wrote: "Since the powers, authority,
official posts, organizations and financial resources are
all in the absolute hold of the caste-priests, nuns,
bishops and the religious, the Dalit Christians are not
able to get an equal share for them in education,
employment opportunities, welfare and development schemes
available in the church. This has hindered the progress
of Dalit Christians for long and has forced them to the
situation of fighting for their rights. But the church
authorities are least worried about this."

About ten million Dalit Christians of India feel cheated
by the church that converted them to Christianity with
the assurance that they would be given equal rights and
status in the community.

Benjamin quotes some interesting statistics: A study of
all the landed properties of churches in India put
together shows that the church is the second biggest
landlord in the country, next only to the Government. In
addition, the Church institutions and Church or
Christians-led NGOs receive foreign financial support
amounting to over Rs. 2500 crores per year. There is no
transparency with regard to these funds as well as the
massive income accruing from the elite schools, colleges
and hospitals and also shopping complexes built all over
the major cities in the country. The poor Dalit Christian
does not even get the crumbs, leave alone participation
in Church matters. There seems to be a vested interest in
keeping the Dalit Christians where they are to maintain
the status quo in the church.

But now Dalit Christians are more untouchable in
Christianity than they were in their original faith,
according to Francis. "Swadeshi Church could be a
solution to this problem as the management of our
organizations will come into our hands. Today we have to
look to World Council of Churches (WCC) and Vatican for
every little effort to better our community. This is a
fact that the church organizations are not "Dalit
Christians' friend", said Francis in New Delhi recently.

More at:
http://christianaggression.com/item_display.php?type=ARTICLES&id=1127947136

Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti

Since newsgroup posts are being removed
by forgery by one or more net terrorists,
this post may be reposted several times.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 17 2009 7:05 pm
From: uNmaiviLambi

On Dec 17, 9:59 pm, use...@mantra.com and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr.
Jai Maharaj) wrote:
> UNTOUCHABILITY IN CHRISTIANITY

Christianity is the cult excelling in deception like Islam is in
violence

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 17 2009 7:19 pm
From: usenet@mantra.com and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)

In article <5ffde326-6285-448c-8412-badccfc86f72@r12g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>,
uNmaiviLambi <tripurantaka@yahoo.com> posted:

> Dr. Jai Maharaj posted:
>
> > UNTOUCHABILITY IN CHRISTIANITY

> Christianity is the cult excelling in deception like Islam is in
> violence

Yes. And they try to blame others for what destructive things
they themselves do.

Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 3m + bengal = irrevesible disaster [harmony ji, Jai Maharaj has
followed-up here]
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/6eb234aa5a2c3a93?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 17 2009 7:08 pm
From: "Arindam Banerjee"

<usenet@mantra.com and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)> wrote in
message news:20091217NNAt2g76i86jU994f38u35q@MEhB6...
> Bengal wants Arindam's friends kicked out

Fat chance, jBm. If anything, they want them to come as quickly as possible,
and bring knowledge and resource with them. One of my friends from Alice
Springs was treated very well recently, and she even got coverage in the
national dailies. For her beanies, among other things.

and Australia is
> likely to want Arindam kicked out.

Who told you that? Is this the latest directive from the Firm? :) :) I
doubt it, for no doubt Obama has kicked you out from that cosy perch for
your continuous impudence.
I don't expect to be the next Australian of the Year, but who knows, given
the following I am generating that is not an impossibility.

> Where will he go --

Thanks for your concern, jBm. I go with Bertiedoggie along lonely roads,
singing songs, over hills and dales, past beaches and rivers and lakes, in
my gallant old car. Unlike you, I do not trap rare turtles who seek shelter
in your swimming pool, and then convert them into soup. No beef for you -
that is for the plebs, eh! Surpassing fraud and hypocrite that you are, you
eat soup made from rare turtles while preaching sanctimoniously about
vegetarianism! Such charges had been made against you, jBm - and not by me.
Your strenuous denials were not convincing.

is
> there a country that is communist as well as Islamic that
> welcomes frauds?

The US of course, where you live and thrive, as a most successful fraud and
professional conperson.

Now, get lost. I have wasted enough time on you and your familiar, that
harmony creature.

Arindam Banerjee.

> Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
> Om Shanti

==============================================================================

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "rec.arts.movies.local.indian"
group.

To post to this group, visit http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian?hl=en

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rec.arts.movies.local.indian+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

To change the way you get mail from this group, visit:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/subscribe?hl=en

To report abuse, send email explaining the problem to abuse@googlegroups.com

==============================================================================
Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

bollywood-holywood

Thursday, December 17, 2009

rec.arts.movies.local.indian - 24 new messages in 8 topics - digest

No comments:

Blog Archive