Thursday, December 31, 2009

rec.arts.movies.local.indian - 16 new messages in 12 topics - digest

rec.arts.movies.local.indian
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian?hl=en

rec.arts.movies.local.indian@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* DEAD - CHRISTIAN PRIEST WHO RAPED MANY CHILDREN *** Jai Maharaj posts - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/37528c9998774fb4?hl=en
* CHRISTIAN PRIEST SEXUALLY MOLESTED RHODE ISLAND CHILDREN *** Jai Maharaj
posts - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/5028afc58505098e?hl=en
* 8 YEARS IMPRISONMENT FOR CHRISTIAN ARCHBISHOP CONVICTED OF AGGRAVATED SEX
CRIMES *** Jai Maharaj posts - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/6cc78b37461f7036?hl=en
* IT IS TIME TO PROFILE MUSLIM PASSENGERS - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/60deeac95d079723?hl=en
* RESTORE SHRI RAM TEMPLE DESTROYED IN 1528 CE AT AYODHYA - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/f3d03ef26905e16f?hl=en
* AYODHYA - LIES AND SHODDY JUSTICE *** Jai Maharaj posts - 3 messages, 2
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/02ff78ea8aafa63a?hl=en
* MAPPING HUMAN GENETIC DIVERSITY IN ASIA: SPREAD OF PEOPLE OUT OF BHARAT 100
KYA *** Jai Maharaj posts - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/b640413973e49e6c?hl=en
* BHARAT'S SCIENTIFIC CONTRIBUTIONS PRIOR TO INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/bc0bb643ec944b7a?hl=en
* HOW DEEP ARE THE ROOTS OF BHARATIYA CIVILIZATION? ARCHAEOLOGY ANSWERS: B B
LAL *** Jai Maharaj posts - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/82731ee8071cc3c0?hl=en
* DECLINE OF BAUDDHAM IN BHARATAM: ROLE OF ISLAMIC JIHADISTS *** Jai Maharaj
posts - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/88c0dbffe7eb9415?hl=en
* INSIGHTS ON HINDU COSMOLOGICAL THOUGHT: SUBHASH KAK *** Jai Maharaj posts -
1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/5574fe9c27a4f1ac?hl=en
* INDUS WRITING ON METAL TOOLS AND UTENSILS, ENCODES SPEECH *** Jai Maharaj
posts - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/540b00ac304bf0cc?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: DEAD - CHRISTIAN PRIEST WHO RAPED MANY CHILDREN *** Jai Maharaj posts
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/37528c9998774fb4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 29 2009 7:55 pm
From: "P. Rajah"


Jay Stevens Maharaj aka the jackass jyotishithead wrote:

> Priest named in abuse cases dies at 70

What a pity that abusive jyotishitheads still seem to be alive:
http://www.barossa-region.org/Australia/liquidateOUS-buttTROLLOGER-LEADS-MOB-TO-KILL-DAUGHTER-AND-HUSBAND-2499.html
http://gulfnews.com/news/world/india/top-indian-astrologer-arrested-for-sexual-abuse-1.340687

==============================================================================
TOPIC: CHRISTIAN PRIEST SEXUALLY MOLESTED RHODE ISLAND CHILDREN *** Jai
Maharaj posts
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/5028afc58505098e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 30 2009 12:48 am
From: usenet@mantra.com and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)


Abbot: Priest molested Rhode Island children

By Richard C. Dujardin
Journal Staff Writer
The Providence Journal
Monday, December 28, 2009

An Irish priest whose sexual assaults on children figured prominently
in the collapse last fall of Ireland's coalition government may have
sexually abused children in Rhode Island when he was assigned here
three decades ago.

The Rev. Brendan Smyth, 67, is serving a four-year sentence in a
Belfast prison after admitting last year that he molested five girls
and three boys in Belfast over a 24-year period.

In an extraordinary letter sent to a television station in Ulster,
the Norbertine abbot who had been Father Smyth's religious superior
for 25 years acknowledged that he and others had known for decades
that Father Smyth had a "problem" with children, and thought they
could deal with it by having him reassigned every two or three years
to prevent him from forming "attachments to families and children."

Two of those assignments involved duty in the United States: three
years as a parish priest at Our Lady of Mercy parish in East
Greenwich in the 1960s, and an assignment years later in North
Dakota. In both places, according to the superior, Father Smyth
molested children.

"On neither occasion was the bishop of the diocese to which he was
sent notified of (Father Smyth's) propensity to molest children," the
Rt. Rev. Kevin Smith conceded in the letter he wrote a short time
before resigning as abbot of Holy Trinity Abbey in Kilnacrott, County
Cavan, Ireland.

"On both occasions Father Smyth offended against young parishioners,"
the abbott said. "I acknowledge that I, as his religious superior,
committed a grave error in sending Father Smyth abroad without
warning the bishop to whom I sent him."

Priests and others who knew Father Smyth during his Rhode Island
assignment say they were stunned by the disclosures of his
pedophilia. They recall him only as a personable man with an
intriguing brogue who was friendly with several parish families.

Old Journal-Bulletin stories show that Father Smyth was assigned to
Our Lady of Mercy parish as an assistant pastor from 1965 to 1968.
Other sources say he continued to revisit Rhode Island every two or
three years until 1992 or 1993.

A shortage of priests

Newspaper stories from the 1960s described Father Smyth's assignment
in Rhode Island as a "favor" from the abbey to the bishop of
Providence then, the Most Rev. Russell J. McVinney, whose forefathers
came from a town near the abbey.

It was while visiting his ancestral town, the Journal-Bulletin
reported, that Bishop McVinney asked the abbot if he had any priests
to lend him to help ease a shortage. Father Smyth is quoted in the
story as saying, "I was fortunate to be available at the time."

Another article, published at the time of Father Smyth's departure
from the state in February 1968, declared: "He will take with him
memories both fond and perplexing and leave behind the memory of a
man whose love of children and lilting 'r's' and 'e's' brightened the
town and the lives of many in it."

The story reported that Father Smyth helped rejuvenate Rhode Island's
CYO and gave "hour after hour of unofficial attention to the Girl
Scouts."

The letter from Abbot Smith to Ulster television reporter Chris Moore
states that in 1968 - the year Father Smyth left Rhode Island - the
religious order sought treatment for him at Purdysburn Hospital in
Belfast, where "aversion techniques" were used.

"At that time, psychiatrists believed that this was the appropriate
treatment for his disorder," the abbot wrote. "In time, it became
apparent that it was not effective in this case. In 1973, Fr. Smyth
was again sent for treatment, this time at St. Patrick's psychiatric
Hospital in Dublin. In 1974, Fr. Smyth was institutionalized for a
time at Stroud in Gloucestershire (England)."

Fifteen years later, in 1989, the Norbertines referred him for
treatment to a psychologist in Dublin who continued to meet with him
until late in 1993.

Wrote the abbot: "Father Smyth's behavior has perplexed and troubled
our community over many years. We always hoped that a combination of
treatment, Fr. Smyth's intelligence and the grace of God would enable
Fr. Smyth to overcome his disorder. We did not adequately understand
the compulsive nature of his disorder or the serious and enduring
damage which his behavior could cause."

The problem first drew public notice in 1993, when a young Belfast
woman complained to police that she had been sexually abused by
Father Smyth for nine years, starting just before her First
Communion. When the allegation surfaced, Father Smyth was working in
the Republic of Ireland as a chaplain for Tralee Hospital, where he
had access for three years to a 33-bed children's ward.

After the complaint to police, the Royal Ulster Constabulary sent a
warrant for Father Smyth's extradition to Northern Ireland to the
office of the Irish attorney general, Harry Whelehan.

Beginning a four-year sentence

The attorney general did not act on the warrants for seven months.
But, by then, Father Smyth had returned to Northern Ireland on his
own, pleaded guilty to 17 counts of sexually abusing eight young
people, and begun serving a four-year sentence.

The scandal escalated last fall when Prime Minister Albert Reynolds
appointed Attorney General Whelehan president of the High Court in
the Republic of Ireland. Whelehan was not popular with Labor Party
leaders in the coalition government, but many believe the straw that
broke the camel's back was a program, Counterpoint, that aired last
October on Ulster television. In it, reporter Moore broke the news
about the attorney general's inaction on the extradition request.

The show also explored in greater detail Father Smyth's long history
of child abuse. It included an interview with members of a North
Dakota family who received $20,000 from the priest between 1992 and
1993 for his having molested one of their children while he was
assigned there in the 1980s.

The program fueled demands that Reynolds withdraw his appointment of
Whelehan to head the High Court. But the prime minister rejected that
call, saying the blame for the delay of Father Smyth's extradition
fell not on Whelehan but on legal problems involving the Extradition
Act itself.

When Whelehan's successor as attorney general announced that
Reynolds's explanation was not entirely accurate, however, furious
Labor Party leaders retaliated by walking out of the coalition
government. The result was a collapse of the government and the
resignation of Reynolds both as prime minister and as leader of the
Fianna Fail party.

Many consider the Smyth case to be the worst of several sex scandals
that have shaken the Irish populace in the last two years, and that
has seriously weakened the Catholic Church's influence in Ireland's
political arena.

In Rhode Island, amazement

Those in Rhode Island who have had some acquaintance with Father
Smyth say they are amazed at all that has transpired in Ireland
during the last year.

"It's all kind of startling," said the Rev. Raymond C. Theroux, who
worked alongside Father Smyth as an assistant pastor at Our Lady of
Mercy parish in the late 1960s and who is now pastor of St. John
Vianney Church in Cumberland.

"When I read those stories out of Ireland, I couldn't believe that
this is the same guy I lived with in the rectory," Father Theroux
said. "He always seemed to be very personable and friendly. If there
was any abuse going on at that time, I had no inkling."

Father Theroux says he remembers Father Smyth because they began
their assignments at Our Lady of Mercy on the same day. One of their
duties, he recalled, was going to Our Lady of Mercy School to visit
classes. "The school had double grades, so we went there often. I got
a kick out of his accent, and found some of his expressions were very
humorous. Overall, we got along fine."

The priest said he understands from people in the parish that Father
Smyth returned periodically to Rhode Island to visit with families he
knew.

Sister of Mercy Wilma Miley, who was principal of Our Lady of Mercy
School, said she has only vague recollections of a priest with an
Irish accent who came occasionally to say Mass. She said she doesn't
remember him coming to the school to speak to classes.

"If someone had told me then that he was abusing children, that's one
thing I would not forget," said Sister Wilma, now a volunteer at the
(SEE MEMO ABOVE) Amos House soup kitchen in Providence. "But as it
is, I don't remember much about him. I didn't have much contact with
him."

The nun said that until a reporter's phone call she hadn't been aware
of any of the controversy abroad surrounding the priest. In light of
other stories of clergy pedophilia recently, she said, such
allegations don't surprise her. "But I'm not so sure I can believe it
all either."

The Rev. Richard D. Sheahan, pastor of Holy Apostles parish in
Cranston, was pastor of Our Lady of Mercy for six years during the
1980s. About three times during those years, he says, Father Smyth
dropped by for what appeared to be courtesy calls.

"I really don't remember much about him or recall why he was here.
Except for asking him, 'Well, how are things in Ireland?' there
wasn't much we talked about. He didn't ask to stay in the rectory. I
think he was coming to visit people somewhere, but I don't know where
or who. I do remember coming into the church one day and seeing him
in a pew, saying his prayers."

'Everyone liked him"

Kathy Guilfoyle of Narragansett was a parishioner of Our Lady of
Mercy parish when she was in her teens; she says she knew Father
Smyth when he came to East Greenwich in 1965. When she heard about
the recent events in Ireland, Guilfoyle said, she felt "sick."

"He was very Irish and charming, and everyone liked him," Guilfoyle
said in an interview last week. "I was only a kid then (about 19) but
I could see he had winning ways."

Guilfoyle's family has had experience with pedophilic priests. In
1986, her son filed a $14 million suit against Bishop Louis E.
Gelineau and other diocesan officials for failing to take action
sooner against William C. O'Connell, the former Bristol priest who
was eventually convicted of sexually abusing her son and other boys;
in 1990, the suit against the diocese was settled for $1 million.

Mrs. Guilfoyle said that back in the 1960s pedophilia was not
something people talked about, and virtually no one talked about it
with reference to priests. "I didn't even know such things happened
before what happened to my son. I guess back then we were all very
sheltered. I kick myself for being so naive, but it was the way
things were back then."

Records are sketchy

William G. Halpin, a spokesman for Bishop Gelineau, said diocesan
records on Father Smyth are very sketchy. They indicate, he says,
that the priest came here with a "strong recommendation of his
religious superior" and apparently because it was believed the
climate would "help with his asthma condition."

Halpin said the diocese has no record of the priest having a problem
with sexual abuse while he was in Rhode Island.

The original letter from Holy Trinity Abbey's former abbot gave no
details as to what kind of "offenses against young parishioners" may
have occurred in Rhode Island. Requests to the abbey's current
administrator, the Rev. Gerard Cusack, for elaboration have been
turned down; he wrote that "since Court proceedings have been issued
against the Order by a number of parties . . . it is not appropriate
for me to enter further correspondence with the media about the
matter."

Father Cusack, in the same letter, said the Norbertine community has
apologized to all those who have "suffered as a result of the crimes
of Fr. Brendan Smyth."

"It is," he said, "a matter of deep and continuing concern to us that
so much suffering has been caused in consequence."

More at:
http://www.projo.com/news/content/smyth.23239bfc.html

Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti

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this post may be reposted several times.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 8 YEARS IMPRISONMENT FOR CHRISTIAN ARCHBISHOP CONVICTED OF AGGRAVATED
SEX CRIMES *** Jai Maharaj posts
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/6cc78b37461f7036?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 30 2009 5:10 am
From: usenet@mantra.com and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)


Eight years for former archbishop

image
Foto Noticia

Buenos Aires Herald
Wednesday, December 30, 2009

Former Santa Fe province archbishop Edgardo Storni was sentenced to
eight years in prison over charges of sexual abuse aggravated for him
being a priest.

Judge María Amalia Mascheroni ruling closed then the only open case
pending over him, which started after former seminarian Rubén
Descalzo accused Storni in 2002 of sexually abusing him ten years
before.

Storni's lawyer, Eduardo Jauchen, appealed the ruling for which the
case will now have to be decided by the Penal Appeal Court. The
former archbishop could be sentenced to house arrest due to his age.

More at:
http://www.buenosairesherald.com/BreakingNews/View/21247

Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti

o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the educational
purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post may not
have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of the
poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption for
fair use of copyrighted works.
o If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read,
considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal name, current
e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number.
o Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by others are
not necessarily those of the poster who may or may not have read the article.

FAIR USE NOTICE: This article may contain copyrighted material the use of
which may or may not have been specifically authorized by the copyright
owner. This material is being made available in efforts to advance the
understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic,
democratic, scientific, social, and cultural, etc., issues. It is believed
that this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as
provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title
17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without
profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included
information for research, comment, discussion and educational purposes by
subscribing to USENET newsgroups or visiting web sites. For more information
go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
If you wish to use copyrighted material from this article for purposes of
your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the
copyright owner.

Since newsgroup posts are being removed
by forgery by one or more net terrorists,
this post may be reposted several times.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: IT IS TIME TO PROFILE MUSLIM PASSENGERS
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/60deeac95d079723?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 30 2009 6:51 am
From: John Q Public


On 2009-12-29 19:57:54 -0500, Fact Attack <ilp3003@yahoo.com> said:

> what is even BETTER than profiling?
>
> hint, hint, auschwitz

Effin idiot.
Did ya think Germans and Japanese were profiled in WW2, Germans in WW1,
Asians during
Korean war?
You bet they were
Your a PC schill who has not a clue!
El Al Israeli airlines profiles, hasn't had an incident on their planes
in decades!!
But your answer, just like BO's (To paraphrase a Fl congressman) is to
let Americans
die!
Yep, die
So we can be warm and fuzzy to Radical Islam
"Americans must die"
God forbid we would inconvenience them so
"Americans must die"
So BO can be loved throughout the Muslim world
"Americans must die"
Thats why you idiots on the left deserve to be booted out, 2010 will
just be the start!

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 30 2009 10:15 am
From: "ArmyOfDorkness"


"John Q Public" <my2cents@me.com> wrote in message
news:2009123009515716807-my2cents@mecom...
> On 2009-12-29 19:57:54 -0500, Fact Attack <ilp3003@yahoo.com> said:
>
>> what is even BETTER than profiling?
>>
>> hint, hint, auschwitz
>
> Effin idiot.
> Did ya think Germans and Japanese were profiled in WW2, Germans in WW1,
> Asians during
> Korean war?

Did you know up until WW2 Jays Potato chips were called Japs Potato chips?

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 30 2009 4:02 pm
From: Topaz


By Dr. William Pierce

Last Saturday George Bush addressed the United Nations General
Assembly, urging all of the member nations to join the United States
in bringing pressure to bear against all countries that sponsor
terrorism or harbor terrorists. He did it in his standard mock-serious
way, barely suppressing a smirk. Everyone applauded, including the
representative of a country that from its founding until the present
day has sponsored
terrorism. That country, of course, is Israel.

The prime minister of Israel, Ariel Sharon, is a war criminal, a mass
murderer, with the blood of thousands of women and children on his
hands. He is being sought now for trial by the same Hague Tribunal
that succeeded in extraditing former Yugoslav President Slobodan
Milosevic for trial on charges of crimes against humanity in Kosovo,
the same Hague Tribunal that already has tried and sentenced soldiers
who raped and murdered in Bosnia and in Rwanda.

In 1982, during Israel's invasion of Lebanon, Ariel Sharon was
Israel's defense minister. After the bloody terror-bombing of civilian
neighborhoods in Beirut that killed thousands of Lebanese and
Palestinian civilians -- terror bombing carried out by Jews flying
military aircraft supplied to Israel by the United States - Sharon
arranged for the evacuation of Palestinian fighters from Lebanon.

Palestinian women, children, and old people were left behind in
refugee camps, with their safety guaranteed by the United States. On
the night of September 16, 1982, Sharon sent murder squads into two
Palestinian refugee camps, Sabra and Chatila, in West Beirut to kill
the unarmed Palestinian civilians in the camps. With Israeli tanks and
troops surrounding the camps to prevent any of the Palestinians from
escaping, Sharon's murder squads shot, knifed, and bludgeoned
Palestinian civilians all that night and the next day and the
following night, while the Israelis around the camps listened
gleefully to the shots and screams coming from inside. Then Sharon
sent in bulldozers to scoop out mass burial pits and cover up the
corpses of more than 2,000 Palestinian women and children.

Many Palestinians remained unburied, however, and Red Cross workers
found whole families in their homes with their throats cut and other
families who had been lined up and machine-gunned, from small children
to elderly grandparents. One infant had been stomped to death by a man
wearing spiked boots.

This was Ariel Sharon's work, but only a part of his work. He is a man
who believes the teaching of the Talmud that only Jews are human
beings, and that all who are not Jews were put on this earth only to
serve the Jews, and that anyone who opposes the Jews deserves to be
killed, and he has acted in accord with this belief all his life.
There are a dozen major atrocities for which he could be tried by the
Hague Tribunal, but the one with which he is charged now is the mass
murder he implemented, as Israel's defense minister, in West Beirut in
September 1982. And the U.S. government, which clamored for Slobodan
Milosevic to be turned over to the Hague Tribunal for trial, pretends
that it knows nothing about Sharon's genocidal crimes against
humanity.

In the 1950s Israel's Mossad, the equivalent of the CIA in the United
States, sent hundreds of letter bombs to German scientists working in
Egypt and Syria, killing a number of them.

In 1967, during Israel's war against Egypt, the Israeli army carried
out a number of mass executions of Egyptian prisoners of war in the
Sinai, forcing them to dig ditches, then lining them up and shooting
them. Dozens of eyewitnesses to these mass executions have reported
what they saw, but the world's politicians and media bosses pretend
not to know.

Also in 1967 Israel attacked the U.S. Navy ship, the U.S.S. Liberty,
attempting to sink it and kill its crew and then blame the sinking on
the Egyptians.

Israeli agents have carried out assassinations and other terrorist
operations around the world. One of the most colorful of these
operations -- and one of the few that received major media coverage -
was the attempt to murder a prominent Muslim cleric in Jordan in 1997.
Two Israeli agents sprayed poison in the ear of Khaled Meshal as they
walked past him on a sidewalk in Amman. Fortunately, Meshal's
bodyguards were able to catch the two Jews as they ran away, and so
the assassination attempt was publicized.

Israel has stolen nuclear materials and nuclear weapons technology
from the United States to build an illegal nuclear arsenal. Israel
also is known to have developed an arsenal of biological and chemical
weapons of mass destruction.

None of these Israeli activities is secret. Those I've mentioned are
just a few of the ones that were found out and publicized. Not
publicized very much, of course. In fact, they all were dropped from
the news pretty quickly. Still, everyone attending Mr. Bush's speech
at the United Nations last Saturday knew about them. And yet, no one
stood up and booed. No one walked out in protest. Bush's speech was
covered by all of the major newspapers and television networks in the
world, but no reporter for any news medium operating in the West
commented on his hypocrisy. No one mentioned Israel's terrorism.
Everyone knew, but everyone played along.

These people weren't lemmings. Lemmings really don't know any better.
Lemmings are essentially moral creatures; in fact they are
compulsively moral. To lemmings it is essential to feel and think and
act the way they believe they are expected to feel and think and act.
That's morality. Most groups of lemmings believe that it is bad to
lie, to deceive, to be hypocritical. If during George Bush's speech at
the United Nations a substantial part of the audience had walked out
in disgust, and at the end the remaining delegates had stood up and
booed him loudly, and if the media commentators then had remarked with
scorn to their television audiences that Bush is a hypocrite who talks
about stopping state-sponsored terrorism while continuing to finance
Israeli terrorism, the lemmings would have booed him too.

But Bush's lies and hypocrisy were ignored by the media and by the
other delegates. Instead of booing, they applauded him. And so the
lemmings applauded him too. It was all an act for the benefit of the
lemmings. Nearly all politics these days, nearly every speech or
public appearance by a politician or a government official, is an act
of showmanship. What is said has relatively little relationship to
what the politician actually is thinking.

Certainly, last Saturday George Bush wasn't really thinking about
waging war on countries that sponsor terrorism or harbor terrorists.
He was thinking first and foremost about the importance of pleasing
the Jewish media with his speech. He may have been keeping his fingers
crossed and hoping that no Arab delegate would jump up during his
speech and shout at him, "What about Israel? You say that we should
wage war on states that sponsor terrorism. Israel engages in
state-sponsored terrorism more than Afghanistan and all the other
countries in the Middle East combined. When will you send your B-52s
to carpet-bomb Tel Aviv and Jerusalem?" And at the end he must have
marveled to himself how smoothly the act went and how easy it is to
deceive the public.

Crookedness of this sort has been going on for a long time. There are
only two things that make this latest crookedness noteworthy. First,
it is being used to justify yet another war that is not in the
interests of the American people. It is being used to justify dropping
cluster bombs on villagers whom we have no good reason to kill. And
second, it is a lot more obviously crooked than usual. Osama bin Laden
caught the Bush government and the media by surprise, and they didn't
have time to refine and polish their lies. All they could do was
pretend that they had no idea why he would attack the United States
and then claim that it must be because he hates our freedom. They
didn't have time to put up their usual smokescreen of obfuscation.
They simply launched their denunciations of terrorism and terrorists
and of governments that tolerate terrorism and hoped that no one would
say anything about Israel or Ariel Sharon or Israel's policies of
assassination and torture.

Because the crookedness is more obvious now than usual, more
perceptive people than usual are noticing it and saying something
about it, and that's good. But these perceptive few who are unhappy
enough about the crookedness to speak out have little or no voice in
the mass media, and so the lemmings remain oblivious to the realities
of the situation.

That's the wonderful thing about democracy: you don't have to try to
fool all of the people; all you have to do is fool most of the people
all of the time, and that's pretty easy to do when you control the
mass media. You can just ignore the few who refuse to go along with
the act, and the great majority of the voters will never notice.

So why do I care that the system is crooked? Why should you care? Why
not just pretend not to notice the crookedness and go along with it,
like everyone else? Pretend to be a lemming, but stay alert to
possibilities for profiting from the fact that, unlike the lemmings,
you really are secretly aware of who's who and what's what. That's
what the big shots do. That's what the people do who care only about
themselves and don't give a damn what happens to their country or
their race or the civilization built by their race, as long as they
personally are able to turn a profit from events. That's what George
Bush does. He pretends to care about all sorts of things. He pretends
to be outraged by terrorism, but he shakes Ariel Sharon's hand and
gives him a big hug whenever Sharon shows up in Washington. He
pretends not to be aware of Sharon's record as a mass murderer, a war
criminal, a terrorist, a man who sends out teams of assassins and
orders the Israeli police to torture prisoners.

A lot of people think and behave the way George Bush does. A lot of
people believe that's the only smart way to be. We're living in a
society in which a great many people are completely alienated,
completely disconnected from any sense of responsibility to race or
nation or to anyone but themselves: amoral people, people willing to
do anything they believe is personally advantageous, people for whom
every public expression is simply an act. And because there are so
many people like that, including virtually everyone in the government
and in the media, America is very, very sick.

I'll go further: individuals who think and behave that way are sick.
George Bush is a very sick man. Anyone who consciously and
deliberately betrays his own race or his own nation, anyone who
commits treason, is a defective person, a sick person. And George
Bush, by consciously following a policy he knows is not in the
interests of America but only serves Israel's interests, a policy he
knows is responsible for the September 11 attack against America, a
policy he continues to follow despite that knowledge, is a traitor.
That's George Bush I'm talking about, the President of the United
States. He may look stupid, but he knows what he's doing. George Bush
believes he's a smart guy, a guy who knows which side his bread is
buttered on, a guy who can get away with anything as long as the
Jewish media will back him up. And so far he has been getting away
with it. In a democracy, hypocrisy works; lying works. As long as you
have the mass media on your side you can get away with anything,
because the majority of the voters never will figure it out.

What has been happening in Mazar-i-Sharif and Kabul and other northern
cities in Afghanistan this week is a good example. The big act put on
by George Bush and his British counterpart Tony Blair and all of their
media supporters since the campaign to destabilize Afghanistan began
last month -- the big act was that the Taliban is a bunch of
tyrannical fanatics who brutalize women, sponsor terrorism, and do
lots of other bad things, and the Northern Alliance, which was
supplied with weapons and money by the U.S. government while we bombed
the Taliban to smithereens, is a bunch of Sunday school teachers and
Boy Scouts. The United States will deliver Afghanistan into the hands
of the Northern Alliance, and then everything will be rosy and
peaceful and democratic. The people who had been tyrannized by the
Taliban will be free and happy under the Northern Alliance. The
Americans will be the good guys, who have made this wonderful
improvement possible.

Well, of course, it hasn't worked out that way. As soon as the
Northern Alliance took over each city it began rounding up people it
didn't like, people who belonged to the wrong tribe, for example, and
raping and killing them. There have been dozens of mass executions and
mass rapes by the Northern Alliance troops this week. There are a lot
of people they don't like. And the ones who just get raped or shot are
the lucky ones. Eyes are being gouged out, breasts are being cut off,
prisoners are being castrated and impaled and skinned alive or burned
to death. That's the way things are done in the Middle East. When the
British tried to pacify the country in the 19th century, the rule was
never to let yourself be taken alive. If you were wounded and left
behind, you always saved your last cartridge for yourself. Rudyard
Kipling wrote about that:

"When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,

"And the women come out to cut up what remains,

"Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains

"An' go to your Gawd like a soldier."

The Russians learned the same lesson, to their sorrow, just a little
over a decade ago. And the military people around George Bush
certainly were aware of the experiences of the British and the
Russians. The Taliban indeed may be a rough and brutal bunch, but no
more rough and brutal than the people paid and armed by the U.S.
government. When the Taliban was in charge at least there was peace
and stability. There were no massacres or gang rapes. The U.S.
government, with its bombing campaign and its mercenary troops in the
Northern Alliance, has succeeded in destabilizing large portions of
Afghanistan, and the rapes and mutilations and mass executions have
started.

But the lemmings won't hear enough about that for it to sink in.
George Bush will continue lying and smirking and pretending that the
Northern Alliance are the good guys, and America is bringing freedom
and democracy and happiness to Afghanistan. What the United States
actually is trying to do is set up a government a little more corrupt
than that of the Taliban: a government that we can control with bribes
and threats and that will not be a danger to Israel. That's the whole
purpose of our war against Afghanistan.

It's the same sort of crookedness that we saw in connection with the
Second World War. The pretext that the British government used for
declaring war against Germany in 1939 was the safeguarding of Poland's
freedom. When the Roosevelt government in the United States finally
was able to use the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor as an excuse for
jumping into the war against Germany, the act by the media and the
politicians here was that Americans were being the good guys and would
bomb the Germans to smithereens in order to protect American freedom
and the freedom of Europe. And the people to whom we shipped military
supplies so they could help us were the Soviets under good old Uncle
Joe Stalin, that kind and fatherly fellow who also was being
threatened by the wicked Germans.

Of course, what we did, after carpet-bombing German cities and killing
enough Germans to make them surrender, was turn Poland and the Baltic
states and half the rest of Europe over to communist rule for half a
century. It had never been the intention of either the British
government or the U.S. government to free anybody. We knew what sort
of people the communists were. We knew that they had butchered the
cream of the Polish nation in the Katyn forest and elsewhere - 25,000
Polish military officers and professors and physicians and engineers
and writers - but our government and media people pretended that it
was the Germans who had done it and that we were "liberating" Europe
from the Germans and protecting American freedom, which never was
threatened by the Germans.

It was all an act. The aim was not to safeguard anybody's freedom; it
was to destroy Germany because the Germans had gotten the Jews off
their backs and out of their country. We made war against Germany in
order to make Europe safe for the Jews and for no other reason. We are
making war against Afghanistan now in order to make the Middle East
safe for the Jews, and for no other reason. Everything else is an act
to keep the public fooled. And the public will be fooled: just as they
never figured out what World War Two was all about, they won't figure
out what the war against Afghanistan is all about. They may hear
rumors about the massacres being carried out now by the Northern
Alliance, but the television people won't spell it out for them, won't
show them gory pictures of the piles of corpses, and so the public
won't get it.

So again, why should you care? Why not just go along with the act, the
way the big shots do?

That's a hard question to answer, in this sense: If you're like George
Bush or any of the other big shots who think they're being smart by
going along with the act and collaborating with the Jews against their
own people - if you think that's the smart way to behave - then you
won't understand my answer, no matter how carefully I explain it. If
you're a person who already is totally alienated - if you're an amoral
person who already is completely disconnected from your race and its
traditions and values and you think of yourself solely as an
individual scrambling to get an advantage over other individuals by
any means that will work - you won't understand my answer.

But if you still have some sense of being a part of something larger
and more permanent than yourself -- if you still have a sense of
racial identity, a sense of kinship with a larger family of fellow
Europeans, of fellow White men and women with whom you share
traditions and values and a way of looking at the world - if you value
the civilization your ancestors built over the last 5,000 years, if
you think of it as your civilization - then my answer is superfluous.
You already know the answer. You already understand why you must not
collaborate with creatures who secretly sneer at your values, who are
contemptuous of the traditions and history of your people, who have
been working for thousands of years to corrupt your civilization, and
who are determined to annihilate your race. You already understand why
men who do collaborate with these creatures must not be permitted to
make laws and set policies governing your people. You understand that
instead of being applauded and looked at with respect, they should be
hanged as traitors and as a warning to others who might be tempted
also to betray our people. You already understand that truthfulness
and righteousness are their own reward.

http://www.ihr.org/ www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/

http://www.natvan.com http://www.nsm88.org

http://heretical.com/ http://immigration-globalization.blogspot.com/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: RESTORE SHRI RAM TEMPLE DESTROYED IN 1528 CE AT AYODHYA
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/f3d03ef26905e16f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 30 2009 7:51 am
From: hari.kumar@indero.com


> > Even better restore the mosque that was destroyed indemonstration of
a
> > spiritual value above petty human hatred.
>
> "We leave that to you. But first you have to get possession of the
> site."
>
> Ah, lacking ability to demonstrate that higher spiritual value we see.
=
=A0
> The site is not in your control nor yours to posses.

"Make a pilgrimage to Ayodhya. I have, post-demolition. When the
soldiers frisk you (multiple times) with a metal detector, they are
chanting the Ramayana. And believe you me, they are the descendants of "
Mangal Pandey of the Ghadar fame."

Why go to see rubble from a distance that a fence disallows? Ah, you
confirm official collusion in the attitude of the police we see. Or
perhaps they were instructed to do so for the benefit of promoting
terrorism admiring tourists?

Such acts of terrorism can only exist when official corruption and
collusion flourish.

As has been said, evil will succeed only when righteous men remain
silent.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: AYODHYA - LIES AND SHODDY JUSTICE *** Jai Maharaj posts
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/02ff78ea8aafa63a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 30 2009 8:10 am
From: hari.kumar@indero.com


And it is highly probable that underlying it all are the sacred places
of the tribals, the original people of the area and with the original
religions of s. asia.

I say return all tribal sacred places to them and their control.


== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 30 2009 5:46 pm
From: Mirza Ghalib


On Dec 30, 8:10 am, hari.ku...@indero.com wrote:
> And it is highly probable that underlying it all are the sacred places
> of the tribals, the original people of the area and with the original
> religions of s. asia.
>
> I say return all tribal sacred places to them and their control.

Till recently you were straight and simple anti-Hindu. Now
overnight you have become pro-tribal. Have you discovered
your roots finally?


== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 30 2009 6:00 pm
From: hari.kumar@indero.com


> And it is highly probable that underlying it all are the sacred places
> of the tribals, the original people of the area and with the original
> religions of s. asia.
>
> I say return all tribal sacred places to them and their control.

"Till recently you were straight and simple anti-Hindu. Now overnight
you have become pro-tribal. Have you discovered your roots finally?"

Don't be silly, I'm not anti any ethnic group. I'm pro human rights and
rule of law and moral justice. To that end I'm accused of all manner of
things, of being of this ethnic group or another. The curse of s. asia,
one must, must we demand, be a label so we can make sense of you and
find your proper place.

It so happens that tribals are on the short end too often of human
rights and equal treatment before the law and moral justice.

That they exist is often refutation of many of the self glory claims and
revisionist history some want to apply to themselves.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: MAPPING HUMAN GENETIC DIVERSITY IN ASIA: SPREAD OF PEOPLE OUT OF BHARAT
100KYA *** Jai Maharaj posts
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/b640413973e49e6c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 30 2009 8:17 am
From: hari.kumar@indero.com


Our good friend jay stevens,aka dr. jai etc. provides even more support
to the valid genetic history of s. asia. This entire article is with
reference to the original movement from africa to s. asia some 70000
years ago and then from there to the entire euroasian landmass.

It does not mention the later genetic history of movements much later in
the 3000 year horizon from central asia into s. asia, which jay
stevens,aka dr. jai etc. would rather not be mentioned.

If he wants us to know of some of it, he should want us to know all of
it, and do so with a smile on his face.

An interesting question is why a non-indian would care?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: BHARAT'S SCIENTIFIC CONTRIBUTIONS PRIOR TO INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/bc0bb643ec944b7a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 30 2009 8:20 pm
From: usenet@mantra.com and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)


Forwarded message from S. Kalyanaraman

India's scientific contributions prior to industrial revolution

Wednesday, December 30, 2009

http://sites.google.com/site/itihasabharati/scientific-contributions

India's Scientific Contribution to Europe and other World
Civilizations Prior to Industrial Revolution

Many eyebrows were raised at the title of this seminar. Deep rooted
disbelief that how can earlier civilizations can be contributors to
any "Science", as we understand it today? Science means rational,
logical, objective thinking, something which did not exist in the
earlier people in adequate quantity. The life of these earlier
people was governed by religion i.e. superstition, which is
inherently, devoid of "scientific temper" and "free will", the hall
mark and pre-requisite of scientific development. Once this premise
is accepted without debate, then West as birth place of all Science
is the forgone conclusion.

Religion as anti science is 100% a modern western construct and we
need to understand this thoroughly well. Religion in this case is
Christian religion and Science means modern Western science. This
incompatibility of religion with science in the West automatically
gets grafted on non-Western religions and their relation with
science.

Concept of Religion in West and East differs radically in many
respects. In the Western concept of religion, it must have a Prophet
and a Book and the followers must abide by the teaching of both. In
the eastern religion specially Hinduism, the concept of Dharma,
incorporates no single Prophet or book and followers are free to
choose, accept or reject philosophy of life, which suits them best.
Buddhism and Jainism have their Prophets and books to follow but
never restricted their followers to express in Arts and Sciences of
their choice. Vatsyayana who wrote Kamasutra in 3rdcentury was never
criticized on religious grounds and there are many commentaries
written on him till 15th century. Padmasri was a Buddhist monk and
wrote a book on erotic and worldly pleasures titled Nagarasarvasva in
the 11thcentury. Many Jain monks authored mathematical and other
mundane scientific texts without any conflict with their religious
belief. Confucius philosophy as well as Buddhism in China never
opposed or restricted their followers from writing scientific
treatises.

Judaism, Christianity and Islam are Abrahamic or Semitic religions
having continuity at some stage in its emergence, history, spread and
geography, at least in the early stages. In case of Indian
civilization same can be said about Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism
etc. This cultural mooring of Western and Eastern sciences is very
important to understand their contributions to sciences in West and
East. Thus contribution and role of Religion in the development of
science in the West and East are not the same. As statements like all
religions are same may be politically correct but are not true,
howsoever we desire so. Insisting universalization of science in
early period of human civilization equally distorts truth and
introduces blunders in the writing of the history of Science of non
Western cultures. It numbs all inquiry of cultural moorings and thus
possible epistemological differences in the creation of ideas or
sciences in different cultures. No wonder then that we try to analyze
or explain Aryabhata's writings in the Euclidian Hypothesis-Proof
model.

Ayurveda, the Indian medical science, which is in practice for at
least two thousand years and was the main stream medicine in India
till Colonial rule, becomes 'alternative' medicine, which actually
should be reverse i.e. allopathic medicine is alternative to
Ayurvedic medicine. The same is true of how we calculate our time,
chronology of events in BC and AD. Many scholars nowadays prefer BP
i.e. before present. Archaeologist and Geologist use Bronze, Iron Age
etc. However, central point of this calculation also is the beginning
of Christianity. This labeling may appear simple or innocent, which
it is not. Very tacitly it introduces the hegemony of West over
earlier non-west civilizations. This in association with linear,
anthropomorphic model chosen to express human development, dubs
earlier period as period of infancy, incapable of being logical and
rational, which is prerequisite for scientific development. Nowadays
there is a trend of categorizing ideas or sciences of earlier non-
western civilizations with 'ethnic' label i.e. ethnic medicine,
ethnic mathematics, ethno botany, ethno zoology etc. Many scholars
have pursued this research enthusiastically and with great success.
However, the 'ethno' prefix automatically alienates these
contributions from main stream science development. 'Ethno' prefix
carries the baggage of backwardness, tribal, accidental, lacking
modern scientific analytical i.e. Newtonian-Cartesian model of
inquiry, which has inherited Greek logical, rational, objective
methodology to reach any conclusion. Obviously this denies the
originality or anteriority of ideas especially when chronology does
not favours Western or Greek contributions. The classical example is
of invention of Calculus. Madhava, an Indian mathematician of 14th
century, in his writings has everything required for the development
calculus, which is at least 200 years prior to Newton or Leibniz who
is credited for the invention of Calculus. This fact is known to
scholars for at least two hundred years now. How it reached Europe
can be a matter of further study, but why then Madhava should be
denied the credit of his origination? All possible arguments are
advanced with great logical and scholarly acrobatic exercise to deny
this credit to Madhava. This is a classical example of mind set of
most of the past and present history of science scholars and writers,
who by 'training' believe that birth of great scientific ideas is
'natural ' in Greek and Western tradition and all search is to
establish this 'presumed' hypothesis. As against this, it is
'presumed' that non-Western civilizations lack this ability
'inherently' and on this premise then even if proofs are available,
they are given secondary status.

Renaissance means going back to roots. West believes to have their
roots in the pre-Christian Greek and then Roman culture and
philosophy. Plato, Pythagoras, Archimedes, Euclid and many other
contemporaries are the architects of this Civilization. Renaissance
was a cultural moment encompassing all facets of human creativity be
it arts, science, religion or philosophy. It is accepted that
renaissance is the turning point in the development of modern science
in west. Even arts both fine and performing and for that matter all
other branches of human activity tried to align themselves to this
change. Renaissance movement in the West is precursor to the
Industrial development. Opposition of Christianity to science from
Galileo, Bruno to cloning in modern times is well documented.

To appreciate contribution of sciences to Europe and rest of the
World by Eastern civilizations, in this case by India, requires one
to understand this complex religion-culture-science interdependency
and complementarity. Recent archaeological findings including marine
archaeology have unearthed many new materials at the ancient and
medieval Indian Ocean, Middle Eastern and Mediterranean Seaports.
India's contribution in Mathematical astronomy and Algebra is well
documented. There is huge research material available now in many
other areas. I will try to enumerate few below. Siddhasara of
Ravigupta is one of the early Ayurvedic text composed in the middle
of the 7th century (650 AD). Half a century earlier (600 AD) we have
Vagbhata and half a century later (700 AD) we have Madhava.
Siddhasara's translations in Tibetan, Khotanese, Uighur, Turkish,
Arabic and Sinhalese are available and well studied. H.W.Bailey
published the complete Khotanese text in facsimile in 1938 and in
transcription in 1945, which got reprinted in 1969. However, the most
extensive study on all Siddhasar manuscripts is done by R.E.
Emmerick. After publishing two articles in Bulletin of the School of
Oriental and African Studies in 1971 and 1974 respectively, he
published The Siddhasara of Ravigupta in two volumes in 1980 and
1982.

R.E.Emmerick also contributed an article titled 'Ravigupta's
Siddhasara in Arabic' in a volume edited jointly by H.R. Roemer and
A.Noth published by Brill in 1981. In a obituary written by Mauro
Maggi on R.E.Emmeric and published in December 2001 issue of East
and West (pp. 408-415) informs us that Emmerick was so much involved
in the study of Siddhasara text that he contributed at least forty
articles on Indian and Tibetan medicine. His paper 'Ravigupta's Place
in Indian Medical Tradition' read in the Second World Sanskrit
Conference held at Torino, Italy (9 to 15 June 1975) and published in
Indologica Taurinensia ( Vol III-IV, 1975-76, pp. 209-221) provides
us valuable information on Ravigupta and also informs us that
Madhavanidana is probably mentioned in Firdaws al-Hikma authored by
a Arabic scholar, Ali b. Sahl al-Tabari. Very recently Peter Zieme
has published an interesting article in 2007 issue of Asian Medicine
(Vol. 3, pp.308-322) on Uighur Siddhasarafragments and enriched us
with new information on this text. Siddhasara text had widespread
influence on Central Asian, Persian and Arabic medical knowledge.
Emmerick informs us that Persian and Arabic scholars held Siddhasara
in high esteem. Rhazes, a Persian scholar of 9th/10thcentury wrote a
20 part medical encyclopedia, Kitab al Hawi, which has incorporated
many passages from Siddhasaraalong with Greek, Syriac and early
Islamic sources. Faraj Ben Salim a Jewish physician translated Kitab
al Hawi into Latin in the 13th century, titled Liber Continens. This
text becomes so popular in Latin world that it was reprinted five
times till 16th century. Influence of Siddhasar on the development of
Western medicine awaits scholarly research.

Many Sanskrit medical texts got translated to Persian around 6th
century at Gundishpore,Iran and later into Arabic in the 9th/10th
century in Baghdad, Iraq. During the same period Astronomical and
Mathematical Sanskrit texts were getting translated into Persian
first and then into Arabic. One such minor Indian text concerned
only with poisons authored by Shanaq got translated to Persian by a
physician called Mankah in the 9th century. Abu Hatim translated it
from Persian to Arabic during the same time and called it Kitab al-
Shanaq. Shanaq's text on poisons was used extensively by ibn
Wahashiya in composing his much acclaimed 'Book on Poison'. Along
with Greek source ibn wahshia also informs us of other Indian authors
like Tammashah and Bahlindad whos books he used while composing his
book on poisons. Ibn Wahashia wrote many other books but his book on
poisons remained as referral work for many centuries. Ibn ai-Nadim
author of Fihrist knew Shanaq and he informs us about Shanaq's works
on conduct of life, the management of war and on cultural studies.
Another scholar ibn abi Usaibi'a tells us about Shanaq's works on
stars,lapidary and one on veterinary science. Unfortunately we do not
have his original Sanskrit or Arabic translations of these works. As
far as Shanaq's text on poisons is concerned, he follows Sushruta.
Martin Levey translated ibn Wahshiya's Book on Poisons and published
it in the Transactions of the American Philosophical Society, New
Series, Vol. 56, No. 7, 1966, pp.1-130.

Recent Archaeological findings have forced us to rethink our early
assumptions of origin of many material objects like silk, cotton,
tick, pottery, spices, perfumery, beads, diamonds and botanical
products. Obviously their place in respective cultures, trade and
manufacturing technology and skills unfolds a new scenario of
cultural history.

China had monopoly on silk till this date. Recent paper titled 'New
evidence for Early Silk in the Indus Civilization' published in the
2009 issue of Archaeometry, Vol.50., will compel us to change this
perception of origin of silk. Earliest export of silk from china
dates back to early second century BC during the reign of Han Emperor
Wu-ti, though archaeologist in China have found isolated find from
the Liangzhou Neolithic site of Qianshanyang dating back to 2570 BC.
Archaeologists were puzzled with silk found in sites at
Mediterranean, Egypt, Central Asia and also at a late prehistoric
Celtc site in Germany dating back to 700 BC, much earlier to Wu-ti
trade relationship with the West began. It was taken for granted as
export from China without having given thought to the possibility of
silk production indigenously or from regions other than China. In
India itself A.N.Gulati in 1961 wrote an article 'A note on the
early history of silk in India' in a publication of Deccan College,
Poona titled Technical Reports on archaeological remains,pp.51-59
producing evidence of silk from a bead thread from Nevasa,
Maharashtra, dating back to 1500 BC. The new archaeological evidence
of Silk from the Indus civilization sites at Harappa and Chanhu-daro
pushes back the silk production outside China at least by a
millennium earlier. Authors of the paper in Archaeometry have
concluded, "The discoveries described here demonstrate that silk was
being used over a wide region of South Asia for more than 2000 years
before the introduction of domesticated silk from China. Earlier
models that attribute the origins of silk and sericulture exclusively
to China need to be re-examined and revised."(p.8) Indian and Greeko-
Roman trade contacts are well documented. Writings of travelers and
geographers, ranging from 1 /2nd century BC to 3/4th Century AD, like
Natural History of Pliny, Strabo and Geography of Claudius
Ptolemy,Periplus of the erythraean Sea by an anonymous author all
have been describing India and Indian products elaborately.

Emperor Justinian who reigned around 533 AD had composed a list of
about 54 dutiable articles entering Alexandria. This includes many
products like hair, drugs and animals from India by name and even
eunuchs. Recent archaeological findings also have endorsed contacts
with Mesopotamia going back to third millennium BC. India is known to
have been exporting spices, diamonds, cotton, silk etc for the last
5000 years now. Indian tick wood was favorite and most suitable for
ship building. This has been confirmed by study of wood found in many
shipwrecks from Indonesia, Middle Eastern and Mediterranean ports. A
recent paper titled ' A ninth-century AD Arab or Indian shipwreck in
Indonesia; first evidence for direct trade with China' by Michael
Flecker published in World Archaeology Vol.32, No.3,
Shipwrecks(Feb.2001),pp. 335-354 States, "This is the first clear
archaeological evidence to support historical records which imply
that there was direct trade between the western Indian Ocean and
China during the later part of the first millennium AD"(p.335) Trade
is never restricted only to the material exchanges. Along with
culture, scientific information also migrates. Indian influence in
South East Asian countries is well known. Excellent example of this
migration is seen in the Angkor Wat temple in Cambodia. Measurements
of the temple are related to Hindu religious symbolism and
mathematical Astronomy. An article in the Science Vol.193, No.4250,
23 July, 1976 titled 'Astronomy and Cosmology at Angkor Wat' explains
this elaborately, "It is not surprising that Angkor Wat integrates
astronomy, the calendar, and religion since the priest-architects who
constructed the temple conceived of all three as a unity."(p.281)

In an exhaustive article by Grant Parker titled ' Ex Oriente Luxuria:
Indian commodities and Roman Experience' published in the Journal of
the economic and Social History of the Orient, 2002, Vol.45, No.1, pp
40-95, has thrown light on many dark corners of this trade. While
commenting on meager Indian craft goods found in Roman world, his
following observations are interesting, "A second class of evidence
is provided by a number of marble heads now in Rome. These reveal an
unmistakable mixture of Indian and Roman styles: these have a cirrus
knot on the top, creating the effect of an Indian hairstyle on top of
what are otherwise unexceptional marble heads from the Severan age.27
It is tempting to link these hairstyles with the 'Indian hair'
(capilli Indici) mentioned by Marcian; the available evidence leaves
the matter undecided (Schneider 1986)"(p.54) In the same paper on
p.64 Grand Parker informs us more on documentary and inscriptional
evidence found in the West, "Secondly, there are a number of
documentary sources. The so-called Muziris papyrus (P.Vind. G40822 of
the mid-second century AD, now in Vienna), was not published till the
1980s (Harrauera nd Sijpesteijn1 985). This presupposes a contract
that had been concluded between two parties concerning the transport
of goods from Muziris (probably modern Cranganore) to Myos Hormos on
the north-eastern coast of the Red Sea (probably Abu Sha'ar), in
particular a loan to be paid back on the return voyage: the papyrus
itself sets out the consequences of non-repayment. Whereas the
Periplus suggests that traders would mix low-cost everyday items
within its cargo of predominantly luxury goods, the Muziris papyrus
is limited to expensive articles.... In addition, a number of
inscriptions survive testifying to the kind of trade mentioned by
Pliny. Annius Plocamus' freedman left two inscriptions at the Wadi
Menih on the Berenike-Koptos road, both of them dating to the year AD
6: 'I, Lysas, freedman of Publius Annius Plocamus, came here on July
2nd (July 5th), AD 6.'44 Excavations at Quseir al-Qadim (probably
Leukos Limen) beginning in the late 1970s turned up two ostraka
inscribed in the southern India's Tamil-Brahmi script. These, which
contain the namesKanan and Catan, have been dated to the first
century AD. Amidst a find of pottery that can be dated to AD 60-70,
the Berenike excavation has also produced two ostraka inscribed in
Tamil- Brahmi (Mahadevan 1996)."(Pp.64-65)

Surprisingly we see this 'legal trade document tradition' continued
till 12th century. A huge collection of documents was unearthed in
Egypt from the Cairo Genizah. They catalogue the social, cultural and
religious lives of Jews around the Mediterranean basin. They have
documents related to Jews from India, involved in the Mediterrian
trade. S.D.Goiten worked extensively on these documents and published
many articles- ' From the Mediterranean to India: Documents on the
trade to India, South Arabia, and East Africa from the Eleventh and
Twelfth Centuries' published inSpeculam, XXIX(1954),181-197, 'From
Eden to India, specimens of the Correspondance of Indian Traders of
the Twelfth Century, published in Journal of the Economic and Social
history of the Orient,Vol.23,no1/2(April.,1980),pp 43-66 and
'Portrait of a Medieval Indian trader: Three Letters from the Cairo
Geniza' published in Bulletin of the school of Oriental and African
studies Vol.50, No.3(1987), pp. 449-464. These articles give us
valuable information on Indian trade activity in the 11th and 12th
century in the Mediterranean Basin.

Nicole Bovin and D.Q.Fuller in their recent paper titled 'Shell
Middens, Ships and seeds: Exploring Coastal Subsistence. Maritime
trade and the Dispersal of Domesticates in and Around the Ancient
Arabian Peninsula' published in J World Prehist (2002) 22:113-180
informs us about agriculture, animals of Indian origin and pepper,
which is going to confirm earlier observations and pre-date the
Indian history of trade with west.

"Around 1200 BC, the first pepper appears in the Egyptian record,
positively identified from the dried fruits in the nostrils of the
mummy of Ramses II (Plu 1985). This is the first indication of
possible contact between Egypt and India, though by what route
remains unclear. While its royal association attests to the rarity
and high value of this spice at this period, it also can be taken to
suggest the possible early beginnings of direct South Asian to Red
Sea spice trade."(pp. 153-154)

"It is in the context of the intensifying trade between Gujarat and
Arabia at the start of the second millennium BC that we should
probably consider the beginnings of contact between Africa and South
Asia. The evidence of African crops, which are unambiguously in
Gujarat and Baluchistan in this period, suggests that Gujarat
maritime contacts were no longer only with Oman and Dilman but also
extended further westwards around Arabia towards Yemen and Africa. At
present count, some 33 archaeological sites in South Asia dating from
the Middle Bronze Age (c. 2000 BC) through the Iron Age (to c. 300
BC) have evidence for crops of African origin for which botanical
identity is acceptable (Table 3;data augmented from Fuller 2003a;
with Chanchala 2002; Cooke et al. 2005; Saraswat 2004, 2005; Saraswat
and Pokharia 2003). In almost all instances, these crops co-occur
with native Indian millets and pulses, and can be seen as additions
to an existing system of summer monsoon agriculture (Fuller and
Madella 2001; Weber 1998, 342–344). Only in the case of Pirak was
Sorghum, together with rice (plausibly japonica rice) and Panicum
miliaceum (one of the Chinese millets), added to the established
Indus repertoire of winter crops."(Pp.155-159)

"The other domesticate which moved between the Indian subcontinent
and Africa, probably via Arabian maritime links, was the South Asia-
derived zebu cattle (Bos indicus).That zebu cattle spread from South
Asia to Arabia and Africa is not in doubt, and a maritime route is
suggested by genetic data. Marshall (1989) speculated that this could
have occurred in the second millennium BC as a counter flow to
African crops that moved to Asia. Genetic data show a pattern of
inter-regional introgression in which eastern and southern Africa,
together with the Arabian peninsula near Africa, show a genetic
cline, especially in Y-chromosome data, that indicates much higher
zebu bull input than is the case for Mesopotamia and more northerly
areas (Hanotte et al. 2002; Zeder 2006). Nevertheless, there was also
clearly overland movement of zebu cattle from the Indus through Iran
towards the Near East (Kumar et al. 2003)," (pp.159) Usually spices
and diamonds are labeled or discussed as exotic products, which is
not true. Grant parker in his Ex Oriente Luxuria gives some
interesting uses of pepper, "The earliest Greek works to mention
pepper are the gynecological treatises attributed to Hippocrates: at
one point the author glosses the spice as an 'Indian drug' (On
women's diseases 1.81 indikou pharmakou). Its typical use in these
medical texts is for disorders of the eyes, mixed into an ointment.
Theophrastus' work On Odours makes it clear that pepper was among the
spices known and used in the later 4th/early 3rd centuries. Though he
uses the loanword in naming it (peperi), he makes no explicit mention
of its Indian origin, in which respect he differs from the
Hippocratic text. Theophrastus' treatise is in fact central to any
analysis of the social meaning of spices in the ancient world: it
makes clear that they were used for perfume-powders (aromata),
cosmetics, incense (thumiamata), and antidotes to poison (theriaca).
But it is in three very different texts of the first century AD that
we have the most extensive evidence for the use of spices. These
begin with the army physic\cian Dioscorides, whose Materia medica (c.
AD 65), written in Greek, illustrates the pharmacological uses.
Secondly, Apicius, who lived under Augustus and Tiberius, composed a
series of gourmet recipes, to whose corpus texts continued to be
added until late antiquity. Of 478 recipes there contained, almost
all require some kind of spicing; so did certain preparations of
wine."(p.43)

However, in India we know that most of the spices are also used in
Ayurvedic preparations. Similarly use of diamond as tool in cutting
other diamond or hard object and in the technology of engraving is
known to Indians since antiquity and is even practiced today in
Gujarat. Leonard Gorelick and A.John Gwinnett in their paper titled
'Diamonds from India to Rome and Beyond' published in American
Journal of archaeology, Vol. 91, No.4 (1988) pp. 547-552 informs us,
"The technological history of diamonds as tools in the ancient world
is even more obscure than their use as gem-stones. Our experimental
evidence for the use of diamonds in Arikamedu in southeast India, ca.
250 B.C.- A.D. 300, is the earliest thus far reported. Wheeler found
a bead workshop in Arikamedu, as well as strong evidence for trade
with Rome. The Romans are very likely to have learned to use diamond
splinters as drills in Arikamedu. Pliny states that diamond splinters
"are much sought after by engravers of gems" (HN 37.15.61). Further
literary evidence, both Sanskrit and Roman, adds weight to our
finding. Additional references, although meager, help trace the
continued use of diamonds as en-graving tools after the fall of Rome
through the Sassanian and Islamic periods. Evidence is lacking for
the European Middle Ages, but documentation for Europe re-emerges in
Europe in the 15th century A.C. Diamonds are still used in the modern
industrial world, in modern crafts, as well as in the remote bead
making village of Cambay, India. Here a diamond-hafted bow drill is
still currently in use for drilling beads. Beads from Cambay, in
fact, provided the initial clues in interpreting our sub-sequent
experimental evidence. "(p.547) Excavations in the last quarter of
twentieth century at Quseir al-Qadim (preliminary reports published
by American Research Center in Egypt, Cairo in 1979) and at Egypt's
Red Sea port Berenike (preliminary report started appearing since
1995, published by Leiden:Research School CNWS) has revealed many
new objects, confirming our early findings of Indian trade with
Greco-Roman world. Using textile products of Indian origin and Indian
teak found in the Excavation at Berenike, Grant Parker wrote another
very interesting article titled 'Topographies of Test: Indian Textile
and Mediterranean Contexts in Ars Orientalis, Vol. 34, 2004, pp. 19-
37 (almost all articles in this volume are on Indian Ocean trade).
His findings not only confirm the observations of earlier writers but
also inform us the high degree of technology reached in Indian
subcontinent in cultivating and manufacturing these goods for local
consumption as well as for export. Parker writes in the article, "The
desirability and novelty value of this product are immediately
apparent. This cotton or "tree wool" also featured among the accounts
of the historians and scholars accompanying Alexander on his campaign
to the east in 327-325B .C. For example, the naval commander
Nearchusi s quoted in Strabo's Geography ( 15.1.20 C6g3) on the use
of cotton in garments; Strabo mentions silk in the same breath.
Finally, the Periplus of the Erythraean Sea, a ship captain's manual
from the mid-first century A.D. written in Greek, makes several
references to the transport of cot-ton on the monsoon route. Both
cloth (chapters 48, 49, 5i) and garments (chapters 48, 51, 59) occur
among goods brought into Egypt, whereas exports from Egypt to Arabia,
India, and the East African coast include various kinds of garments
(e.g., chapters 6, 24, 56).11 At a port called "Ganges" i n the Ganga
delta it was possible to acquire high-quality cotton, in the form of
garments: "On [the Ganges] there is a port of trade [emporion]
sharing the same name as the river, Ganges, through which
malabathron, Gangetic nard, pearls, and cotton garments of the very
fin-est quality, the so-called Gangetic, are transported" (chapter
63). It is typical of the Periplus that various objects are linked in
the context of a particular port. The designation of quality,
diaphorotatai, has connotations of distinctiveness as well as
value."(pp.20-21) Hindu mathematical and other scientific manuals
started migrating to Iran and Iraq from 6th to 10th century. Hundreds
of them got translated to Persian and Arabic languages. The process
of Latin translation of these Arabic and Persian texts started from
11th century onwards. Indian mathematics and other sciences reached
Europe through this translation industry. Trade played a vital role
in this migration. However, it is least studied and its contribution
is totally neglected. In the same volume of Ars Orientalis (Vol. 34,
2004) Carol Bier wrote an article titled 'Patterns in Time and Space:
Technologies of Transfer and the Cultural Transmission of
Mathematical Knowledge across the Indian Ocean.' And in his own
words, "This article explores the potential role of textiles in the
transfer of mathematical knowledge from the Indian subcontinent to
the central Islamic lands and west-ward to an emerging modern Europe
through an inquiry into prospective technologies of textile
manufacture and pattern-making. Ikat textiles of the ninth and tenth
centuries, found in Egypt but presumed to be from Yemen, serve as a
means to explore possibilities of numeration and treatment of the
spatial dimension.

An initial attempt is made to separate patterning from the technology
of textile production in an effort to treat the mathematical
possibilities that patterning offers for the application of
mathematical knowledge. This article proposes an ontology of pattern,
distinct from the category of a textile itself, which raises
significant questions pertaining to the transmission of mathematical
knowledge in relation to expanded trade routes in the eighth through
tenth centuries, coincident with Islamic developments in the
understanding of two-dimensional space"(p.173)

Agriculture and Horticulture are other important activities in any
culture or civilization. Newer techniques of Archaeobotany are giving
us new tools in dating. Mehergarh, Baluchistan excavations have
placed barley and wheat cultivations in Indian subcontinent around
7000 to 5500 BC. Recent findings of the Archaeobotanical samples
collected from Neolithic site Jhusi, at the confluence of Ganga and
Yamuna rivers in Allahabad U.P. are presented jointly by Anil K.
Pokharia, J.N. Pal and Alka Srivastava in an article titled 'Plant
macro-remains from Neolithic Jhusi in Ganga Plain: evidence for
grain-based agriculture', in the Vol.97,No. 4, 25 august 2009 issue
of Current Science. We already have the dates of cultivated rice
from Kunal, Hariyana in the range of 3000 to 2500 BC. Rice grains
collected at Jhusi have given us dates in the range of 7100 to 5932
BC. These are probably the earliest dates of rise grains in at least
Indian subcontinent. Their findings of viticulture or horticulture
are more revealing, "Remains of grape-vine have provided unequivocal
evidence of viticulture from pre-Harappan and Harappan times
23,36,37,40. Before the factual evidences from archaeological sites,
information on the grape and its cultivation was based on the
literary and ancient sculptures. Grapes were known through the
accounts of Charak and Susruta in their early medical treaties (5th
century BC), and there was almost no information of their
cultivation, prior to the Muslim conquest of the country 41.The
evidence of grape-vine on Indian sculptures has come from Sanchi and
Bharhut stupas in Madhya Pradesh, datable to 2nd–3rd century AD 42.
Smith 43 and Marshall et al.44, however, regarded the vine as a
characteristic motif of Hellenistic art. According to Watt 45,
viticulture in India never at any period was regarded to have
attained the proportions it assumed in the Greek and Roman ages of
Europe. Now, in view of the factually evidenced viticulture since the
Neolithic and Harappan times, all these opinions stand
untenable."(p.569)

Sugarcane cultivation is indigenous to India. We have extensive
literary evidence for this. We have testimony of Greeks in this
regard. They described sugarcane as 'reeds that make honey without
the agency of bees' Megasthenes goes a step forward and even tries to
explain why sugarcane is sweet? Surprisingly there is no trace of
sugarcane in any archaeological excavations in the subcontinent.
Lallanji Gopal has written an excellent paper titled 'Sugar-making in
Ancient India' published in Journal of the Economic and Social
History of the Orient Vol. 7, No. 1, 1964, pp. 57-72. He gives us
literary evidence of highly advanced stage of cultivation it had
reached, "Advanced knowledge of sugarcane cultivation is clear from
the classification of the plants into several types, differing
according to their qualities 2). Caraka 3) mentions two varieties
paundraka and vamsaka. The Amarakosa 4), though by name mentioning
only the pundra and kantara types, implies many others also in the
word adayah. Ksirasvamin, the commentator, names some of these. But
Susruta gives by far the most elaborate list. He mentions twelve
varieties: paundraka 5), bhiruka, vamsaka, sataporaka, tapaseksu,
kasteksu, sucipatraka, naipala, dirghapatra, nilapora and kosakrt
6)."(p.59)

Panchatantra and the game of Chess are Indian contributions which
reached East and West, as early as 3rd to 6thcentury AD. I have dealt
with Panchatantra in my paper 'History of migration of Panchatantra
and what it can teach us' presented last year in the conference
titled Subhashita, Panchatantra andGnomic Literature in Ancient and
Medieval India held at Thane under the auspices of Institute for
Oriental Study, Thane on Saturday, 27 Dec. 2008 at Thane

http://orientalthane.com/speeches/speech2008.htm

Similarly there is large research material available on Chess. The
White collection in the Cleveland public library is the largest
library in the world dedicated to Chess.

Dominance and universalization of modern science gives a hegemonic
status to West. Colonization of rest of the world by Western
countries since 16th century added to this hegemony. 'Orientalism'
is the final outcome of this process. Study of Indian civilization
i.e. Indology is no exception to this 'academic exercise'. Poor
financial recourses and inadequate research training facilities in
the non West world in the post Colonial period, enhances this
dependency on West. No civilization or culture for that matter can
claim exclusivity.

However, though Indian trade with West was always bilateral, when it
comes to influence or anteriority of ideas, pointer is
unidirectional, always in the direction of Mesopotamia or Greece.

Transmission of Indian sciences to Europe prior to Industrial
revolution is not easy to understand. Trade, as seen by us earlier,
has played a major role in this transmission. Extensive literary and
archaeological material is available now for this study. However,
Indian trade was not restricted to the West only. Buddhism had
reached China and Central Asia few centuries prior to the beginning
of Christian era. Indian trade and culture had also reached South
East Asian countries since the beginning of Christian era. Hundreds
of philosophical, religious and scientific text from Sanskrit got
translated to Chinese, Khotanese, Uighur, Tibetan and South Eastern
languages. Trade route of West to China passed through Central Asia.
We have seen that many Chinese and Central Asian texts original and
translated both, reached Western civilizations through this trade
route. As a matter of fact Sanskrit-Persian/Arabic–Latin transmission
started much later than Sanskrit-Chinese-Central Asian-Greek/Latin
transmission. Last route of transmission is after 16th century
through missionary and Colonial administrators' writings. A
collective and comprehensive study of all these inter disciplinary
sciences including paleo and archaeobotany, archaeozoology and
genomic studies will help us reach conclusions with least bias.

Vijay Bedekar
President,
Institute for Oriental Study, Thane
Saturday, 26 December 2009, Thane.

The annual seminar of the Institute on the topic India's Scientific
Contribution to Europe and other worldCivilizations prior to
Industrialcivilization was conducted on Saturday,26 Dec.2009. About
10 scholars presented papers in the conference. This was the
27thconference conducted under the auspices of the Institute for
Oriental Study,Thane since 1982. The book of abstract of present
seminar will be uploaded on the web site http://www.orientalthane.com

End of forwarded message from S. Kalyanaraman

Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: HOW DEEP ARE THE ROOTS OF BHARATIYA CIVILIZATION? ARCHAEOLOGY ANSWERS:
B B LAL *** Jai Maharaj posts
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/82731ee8071cc3c0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 30 2009 8:50 pm
From: usenet@mantra.com and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)


Forwarded message from S. Kalyanaraman

How deep are the roots of Indian civilization? Archaeology answers: B B Lal

Saturday, December 26, 2009

AGENDA

Discovery of India: A different era

The Pioneer
Sunday, December 27, 2009

[This book by Prof B B Lal has traced the vast spread and
efflorescence of a civilisation going back more than five thousand
years, writes Sandhya Jain]

How Deep are the Roots of Indian Civilization? Archaeology Answers

Author: B B Lal

Publisher: Aryan Books International,

Price: Rs 390

Barely seven years after Prof BB Lal penned The Sarasvati Flows On:
The Continuity of Indian Culture (2002), the defiantly-in-denial UPA
has been forced to admit the existence of the Vedic Saraswati. In
response to a parliamentary question, the Government revealed that a
study by scientists of ISRO, Jodhpur, and the Rajasthan Government's
Ground Water Department has found irrefutable evidence of palaeo-
channels and archaeological sites of pre-Harappan, Harappan and post-
Harappan ages, indicating the existence of a mighty river matching
descriptions of the Saraswati in Vedic literature.

Now, once again taking the bull by the horns, Prof Lal thunders that
the Harappan or Indus-Saraswati civilisation is not only
archaeologically the oldest civilisation of India, but that it is the
material counterpart of the Vedic texts! Supporting this bold
hypothesis is powerful evidence from hydrology, geology, literature,
archaeology and radiocarbon dating. A picture clearly emerges of a
vibrant material civilisation with profound metaphysical insights in
the north-western region, which bequeathed us the unity and
continuity that are the hallmarks of Indian tradition.

Amazingly, every little aspect of our civilisation can be traced back
to the dawn of our religion and culture in the Saraswati basin. At
Nausharo in pre-Partition India (now Pakistan), French excavator
Jean-Francois Jarrige found a small terracotta figurine of a woman,
hair painted black, and red paint in the medial parting indicating
the sindoor worn by Hindu married women to this day. Carbon dating
traces the levels where the image was found to be of circa 2800-2600
BCE. Similarly, the famous bronze statuette of the dancing girl,
found at mature Harappan levels of Mohenjo-daro, reveals the
continuity of the practice of wearing serial bangles on the upper
arms in parts of Haryana, Rajasthan and Gujarat, the very regions
where Harappan culture most thrived.

The Periplus of the Erythrean Sea, an unknown mariner's account of
the sea trade between India and the Red Sea in the early centuries
AD, and the seventh century Chinese pilgrim Hieun-Tsang, both mention
the export of beads from India. Chanhu-daro in Sindh and Lothal in
Gujarat have yielded a rich bead-making industry.

Far more startling is the continuity in agriculture, which sustained
this rich civilisation and the arts and crafts that in turn created a
flourishing overseas trade, and wealth that made India a coveted
prize for adventurers in the centuries that unfolded. Excavations at
Kalibangan in Hanumangarh district, Rajasthan, from the early
Harappan circa 2800 BCE, show fields ploughed wide apart from north
to south (for tall mustard plants) and shorter east-west furrows (for
gram), so that the multiple crops share the winter sunshine and do
not cast shadows upon each other. This pattern endures in Indian
fields to this day. This era also created the ploughshare and spoked
wheel, the tandoor and roti, chulha and chapatti, and pots and pans
and other vessels of daily use!

If these seem like small drops in a civilisation as vast as the
ocean, the finding of terracotta figurines in various Yogic asanas,
which take the Astanga yoga of Panini (2nd century BCE) back to
Harappa and Mohenjo-daro, must make us pause. It is staggering
material evidence of spiritual quest accompanying great wealth,
unmatched in any ancient civilisation. It is convincing proof, if
proof be needed, that the material wealth desired in Vedic mantras
refers simultaneously to a deeper metaphysical quest.

This is augmented by the famous limestone statuette of the Mohenjo-
daro priest-king, with his eyes introvert and eyelids half-closed, a
meditative form later associated with Buddhist tradition, especially
in Tibet and China. Yet this form of dhyana is mentioned in the
Bhagvadgita (Ch 6, verse 13) which states that the gaze should be
fixed on the tip of the nose!

The famous seals of the Saraswati civilisation reflect later
developments in Hindu religion and culture -- the worship of Siva as a
linga; Pasupati seated in yogic posture surrounded by animals;
buffalo sacrifice; worship of the sacred pipal; the crucial role of
agni in the havana or yajna; the fire altars for individual and
communal worship; the kamandalus of the sadhu; the sacred swastika… I
could go on.

Town planning, especially given the chaos in our cities today, will
remain ancient India's greatest contribution to civilisation. Be it
Kalibangan, or Sisupalgarh near Bhubaneshwar, Orissa, the grid
pattern with streets running north-south and east-west was the rage.
This, it is pertinent, was an era in which Egypt or Mesopotamia (the
West's favourite 'cradle' of civilisation) had no notion of such town
planning. The idea, it must be conceded, was original to India. To
cap it all, there were covered drains and manholes for discharge of
sullage.

Bricks were kiln-fired, and there was bonding, with bricks laid out
in alternate courses -- length-wise and breadth-wise -- for strong
walls, way back in the third millennium BCE. And clay floors were
soled with fragments of terracotta nodules and large pieces of
charcoal -- to absorb moisture, prevent dampness travelling up the
walls, and inhibiting termites!

Describing in detail the major Harappan settlements -- Kalibangan in
Rajasthan; Banawali and Rakhigarhi in Hissar, Haryana; Harappa in
Sahiwal, Pakistani Punjab; Mohenjo-daro, Pakistan; Surkotada and
Dholavira in Kachchh, Gujarat (which yielded terracotta horse
figurines); and Lothal in Ahmedabad, Gujarat -- Prof Lal has traced
the vast spread and efflorescence of a civilisation going back more
than five thousand years. It is rich in agriculture and familiar with
many types of grains and cereals and fruits; animal husbandry is
known and many animals are domesticated -- cow, sheep, goat, pig,
camel and elephant; the spotted deer, blackbuck and sambar are hunted
for food; fish and turtle are known. Above all, there is irrefutable
evidence about knowledge of the horse and its usage, with bones found
at numerous sites, including Lothal, Kalibangan and Surkotada.

Vedic Harappan civilisation used its long coastline from Gujarat to
Sindh and Baluchistan for a thriving sea trade with the Gulf and
Africa, selling marine, mineral and forest resources to distant
markets. A coffin with the deodar lid suggests that the Himalayas
were sourced for wood, with logs being pushed downstream as is the
practice today. There was a rich industry in bead-making, shell,
ivory-working, not to mention metal, mainly copper and bronze, though
gold and silver ornaments had also arrived.

Truly a Golden Age. The only thing missing is the inscrutable script,
surely a precursor to Brahmi, the language that developed later. But
who were these Vedic people -- were they Aryan invaders as we were
taught in school, or indigenous ancestors whose achievements were
'stolen' by ascribing them to so-called Aryans, a people who have
left no traces of like achievements in any of the lands from where
they supposedly descended upon the Indian plains.

It is now conclusively established that there was no Aryan invasion,
or even migration (the current theory). What does remain, however, is
a West-led mental resistance to accepting the indigenous origins of
the Vedic (Hindu) religion, culture, and civilisation. But the time
for intellectual arguments is over; it will take a further economic
and military decline of the West to eclipse this denial.

http://www.dailypioneer.com/225282/Discovery-of-India.html

End of forwarded message from S. Kalyanaraman

Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti

o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the educational
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: DECLINE OF BAUDDHAM IN BHARATAM: ROLE OF ISLAMIC JIHADISTS *** Jai
Maharaj posts
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/88c0dbffe7eb9415?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 30 2009 9:43 pm
From: usenet@mantra.com and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)


Forwarded message from S. Kalyanaraman

Decline of Bauddham in Bharatam

Tuesday, December 8, 2009

http://sites.google.com/site/hindunew/bauddham

Decline of Bauddham in Bharatam: role of islamist jihadists

Bauddham is sanatana dharma continuum.

Thanks to B. Shantanu for the URL of Parshu Narayan's article. This
is an extraordinary account which should be taught in every school
all over the world to remind every child about the destruction of one
of the world's oldest universities in Nalanda by Islamist Jihadists
such as Muhammad Bin Bakhtiar Khilji. Yes, the story has yet to be
fully told.

Bauddham is a Hindu civilization continuum. The tragic story of the
decline of Bauddham in Bharatam is as yet, an untold story.

Arun Shourie cites BR Ambedkar: "There can be no doubt that the fall
of Buddhism in India was due to the invasions of the Musalmans,"
writes the author. "Islam came out as the enemy of the 'But'. The
word 'But,' as everybody knows, is an Arabic word and means an idol.
Not many people, however, know that the derivation of the word 'But'
is the Arabic corruption of Buddha. Thus the origin of the word
indicates that in the Moslem mind idol worship had come to be
identified with the Religion of the Buddha. To the Muslims, they were
one and the same thing. The mission to break the idols thus became
the mission to destroy Buddhism. Islam destroyed Buddhism not only in
India but wherever it went. Before Islam came into being Buddhism was
the religion of Bactria, Parthia, Afghanistan, Gandhar and Chinese
Turkestan, as it was of the whole of Asia...."

And adds his own comments on how Marxist historians had distorted the
history of Hindu civilization: "...the Marxist historians who have
been perpetrating this falsehood (of ascribing the extinction of
Buddhism to the persecution of Buddhists by Hindus) have not been
able to produce even an iota of evidence to substantiate the
concoction. In one typical instance, three inscriptions were cited.
The indefatigable Sita Ram Goel looked them up. Two of the
inscriptions had absolutely nothing to do with the matter. And the
third told a story which had the opposite import than the one which
the Marxist historian had insinuated: a Jain king had himself taken
the temple from Jain priests and given it to the Shaivites because
the former had failed to live up to their promise. Goel repeatedly
asked the historian to point to any additional evidence or to
elucidate how the latter had suppressed the import that the
inscription in its entirety conveyed. He waited in vain. The
revealing exchange is set out in Goel's monograph, "Stalinist
'Historians' Spread the Big Lie." Marxists cite only two other
instances of Hindus having destroyed Buddhist temples. These too it
turns out yield to completely contrary explanations. Again Marxists
have been asked repeatedly to explain the construction they have been
circulating -- to no avail. Equally important, Sita Ram Goel invited
them to cite any Hindu text which orders Hindus to break the places
of worship of other religions -- as the Bible does, as a pile of
Islamic manuals does. He has asked them to name a single person who
has been honoured by the Hindus because he broke such places -- the
way Islamic historians and lore have glorified every Muslim ruler and
invader who did so. A snooty silence has been the only response."

http://arunshourie.voiceofdharma.com/articles/scandal.htm

Was it not the son of Pushyamitra Sunga who restored the Ashok Stoop
at Sanchi which had been damaged ca. 2nd century BCE?

Read more at Shantanu's blog:

http://satyameva-jayate.org/2009/12/09/hindu-kings-monasteries/

S. Kalyanaraman


The last lesson at Nalanda

Parshu Narayanan Posted: Sep 18, 2003 at 0000 hrs IST

I had to attend a wedding at Patna and managed a side trip to
Nalanda. As I walked into the ruins, a huge dark sadness descended on
me. Nalanda, the greatest ever Buddhist university, with its hundreds
of monks and thousands of books, was destroyed by Bakhtiyar Khalji's
Turki troops around 1200 AD. As I looked at walls still blackened by
the bonfires of books, I began my search for answers. The museum
nearby gives you a glimpse of Nalanda's sanctity and fame across the
Buddhist world: Tibet, China, Japan and most of Southeast Asia. While
inside, I saw a group of Tibetan monks walking through, placing
sacred white scarves on some statues.

Back home, I downloaded the pages of the past. Buddhism was not
swallowed up by Sanatana Dharma, as we now believe. It thrived, with
sincere patrons like Harsha. Even the infamous Jaichand built a
monastery to honour his Guru, Srimitra. No, what finished Buddhism
off was that it revolved around the Sangha. To alien invaders, a
monastery's imposing walls and towers made it an obvious military
target. After Odantapura, the monastery near Nalanda, was razed and
all the monks beheaded, the Turks found no treasure and certainly no
arms. All they found were books, and with none left to explain their
meaning, they were burnt and Odantapura turned into a military camp.
Let me quickly add that Bakhtiyar Khilji's Turkic forefathers, the
White Huns of Mihirakula -- behaved no differently towards the Sangha
although they were Shiva-bhakts. It was with the greatest difficulty
that the Guptas and others managed to save their lands from their
depredations in the sixth century.

As I browsed, a terribly poignant account of the last lesson at
Nalanda emerged. Incredibly, it was by Nalanda's last student: A
Tibetan monk called Dharmaswamin. He visited Nalanda in 1235, nearly
forty years after its sack, and found a small class still conducted
in the ruins by a ninety-year old monk, Rahul Sribhadra. Weak and
old, the teacher was kept fed and alive by a local Brahmin, Jayadeva.
Warned of a roving band of 300 Turks, the class dispersed, with
Dharmaswamin carrying his nonagenarian teacher on his back into
hiding. Only the two of them came back, and after the last lesson (it
was Sanskrit grammar) Rahul Sribhadra told his Tibetan student that
he had taught him all he knew and in spite of his entreaties asked
him to go home. Packing a raggedy bundle of surviving manuscripts
under his robe, Dharmaswamin left the old monk sitting calmly amidst
the ruins. And both he and the Dharm of Shakyamuni made their exit
from India.

http://www.indianexpress.com/storyOld.php?storyId=31704

End of forwarded message from S. Kalyanaraman

Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti

o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the educational
purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post may not
have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of the
poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption for
fair use of copyrighted works.
o If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read,
considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal name, current
e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number.
o Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by others are
not necessarily those of the poster who may or may not have read the article.

FAIR USE NOTICE: This article may contain copyrighted material the use of
which may or may not have been specifically authorized by the copyright
owner. This material is being made available in efforts to advance the
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that this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as
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If you wish to use copyrighted material from this article for purposes of
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Since newsgroup posts are being removed
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this post may be reposted several times.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: INSIGHTS ON HINDU COSMOLOGICAL THOUGHT: SUBHASH KAK *** Jai Maharaj
posts
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/5574fe9c27a4f1ac?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 30 2009 9:50 pm
From: usenet@mantra.com and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)


Forwarded message from S. Kalyanaraman

Tuesday, December 8, 2009

Insights on Hindu cosmological thought: Subhash Kak

http://journalofcosmology.com/Contents3.html

Fascinating insights by Prof. Subhash Kak in Journal of Cosmology.

S. kalyanaraman

End of forwarded message from S. Kalyanaraman

Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti

==============================================================================
TOPIC: INDUS WRITING ON METAL TOOLS AND UTENSILS, ENCODES SPEECH *** Jai
Maharaj posts
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.local.indian/t/540b00ac304bf0cc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 30 2009 9:52 pm
From: usenet@mantra.com and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)


Forwarded message from S. Kalyanaraman

Indus writing on metal tools and utensils, encodes speech

Saturday, December 5, 2009

http://sites.google.com/site/induswriting/epigraphs

Updated 6 Dec. 2009

Indus writing on metal tools and utensils, encodes speech

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/18615254/Indus-writing-on-utensils-and-metal-tools

A hypothesis is that the Indus writing is related to smithy-guild.
The hypothesis is validated by reading rebus, the mleccha [milakkhu
'copper' (Pali), cognate meluhha] homonym glosses.

The early smith not only invented alloying but also a writing system
to create smithy-guild tokens to authenticate the trade transactions
over an extensive area extending from Ropar in Sarasvati River basin,
Punjab to Ur in Mesopotamia. The trade was the mother of invention;
trade necessitated authentication of the smelting, forging, casting,
ingot, moulding metalwork using a range of mineral ores. This is the
function performed by over 400 pictorial glyphs (so-called signs))
and over 100 pictorial motifs (so-called field symbols) of the Indus
writing system which encoded mleccha speech (referred to as
mlecchitavikalpa by Vatsyayana included in the list of 64 arts in
vidyaasamuddesha, objective of vidyaa, education).

1. There are inscriptions on metal tools, evidencing the
competence of the smith as a scribe (karNaka, the most-frequently
used glyph, which means: rim of jar).

2. There are over 230 copper tablets inscribed with Indus writing
(see appended epigraphs), again evidencing the competence of the
smith as a scribe.

3. Over 10 metal tools and metal weapons of Kalibangan, Chanhu-
daro, Harappa and Mohenjo-daro are inscribed.

4. Mesopotamian texts evidence trade with Meluhha (Sarasvati
civilization area) in metals such as gold, silver, copper, tin and
alloys such as bronze which are high-value products of the times.

5. The legacy of the Indus mint continues into the historical
periods with the vivid use of Indus glyphs on early punch-marked
coins (cf. Theobald sign-list of punch-mark signs), Sohgaura copper-
plate, Rampurva copper bolt between ca. 6th and 3rd cent. BCE.

6. An average of 5 glyphs (both pictorial motifs and signs) are
used on Indus epigraphs. An average of 5 glyphs (both pictorial
motifs and signs) are used on punch-marked coins produced by metal-
smith-guilds/mints of janapadas (peoples' republics), consistent with
the repertoire of early smithy-guilds.

7. The tradition of use of copper tablets to record property/trade
transactions and rajashasana continues in India during the historical
periods.

8. The cultural continuum is also evidenced by the continued use
of cire perdue (lost wax) technique used for making bronze images (as
in Mohenjodaro dancing girl) of utsavabera made even today in
Swamimalai and other parts of India.

9. Bronze-age iron is evidenced in many archaeological sites and 3
sites of Malhar, Lohardewa and Raja-nal-ki-tila on Ganga basin have
shown evidence of iron smelters ca. 1800 BCE. The areas of austro-
asiatic speakers is correlated with the areas where early mineral-
smelting, iron-smelting have been located.

10. The standards of metrology (particulary weights) are used in
the civilization contact area (e.g. Magan, Dilmun) as evidenced by
the recent archaeological finds of weights and use of Indus writing
system in Persian Gulf states. 11. Two pure tin ingots found in a
shipwreck at Haifa contained inscriptions using Indus script glyphs.
The glyphs have been decoded as tin mineral (ranku dhatu).

Dholavira advertisement-board using many glyphs used on metal tool
inscriptions, decoding the advertisement-board announcing a variety
of metallurgical services. Mesopotamian texts also record trade in
'fish-eyes' [decoded as ka_n. 'iron' nodules; ayo 'fish'; rebus: ayas
'iron' (Skt.)].

See: http://www.docstoc.com/docs/18309089/engrave

In the Indian tradition, a smithy is also a temple, as evidenced by
the gloss: kole.l which means both a smithy and a temple in Kota
language. The sanctity of metal work is paralleled by the sanctity of
bronze utsava bera [bronze sculptures carried in sacred processions,
and worshipped (puja) in homes]. Veneration of ancestors in
dhatugarbha (dagoba) or stupas or megalithic circles of stones gains
added significance in Indian tradition, by the semantics of the
gloss: dhatu. Dhatu means 'mineral' and it also means 'relics'. Both
are as sacred as the sacred-fire, the sacred witness-ordainer uniting
aatman with the cosmos, aatman with the paramaatman: agnim i_l.e
purohitam...

On numeral strokes of the script

Use of numeral strokes is a distinguishing structural feature of the
writing system. See: Decoding of numeric stroke glyphs of Indus
script

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/18484078/numerals

Consistent with this decoding of numeric strokes in general,
numerals on metal tools and utensils may be read rebus and may not
relate to counting of objects or volumetric or weight measures.

An outline is apposite, to start with, on the use and rebus semantics
of numeral strokes on metal tools, by reviewing some samples of
epigraphs on non-metal objects.

http://tinyurl.com/yf2a83r

kalibangan 059a shows structural groups of numeral strokes, together
with a 'bow' glyph.

Mint, workshop (for) native metal, furnace, smithy.

kama-t.hiyo = archer; ka-mat.hum = a bow; ka_mad.i_, ka_mad.um = a
chip of bamboo (G.) ka_mat.hiyo a bowman; an archer (Skt.lex.) Rebus:
kammat.a = portable furnace (Te.) kampat.t.am coiner, mint (Ta.)

One short numeral stroke: sal stake, spike, splinter, thorn,
difficulty (H.); rebus: sal 'workshop' (Santali)

One long numeral stroke with superscripte of two short strokes: kod.a
= in arithmetic, one (Santali) Together with pairing sign Sign 99:
at.ar a splinter; at.aruka to burst, crack, slit off, fly open;
at.arccasplitting, a crack; at.arttuka to split, tear off, open (an
oyster)(Ma.); ad.aruni to crack (Tu.)(DEDR 66) Rebus: kod. 'workshop'
(G.); aduru 'native metal' (Ka.)

The numeral strokes should be read as: 3+2 (non-superscript). kolmo
'three'; rebus: kolimi 'forge' (Te.); dol 'pair'; rebus: dul 'cast'
as in dul mer.ed 'cast iron' (Santali). Thus 3+2 are decoded as:
forging, casting (smithy)] Vikalpa: pan~ca 'five' (Skt.) pasra
'smithy' (Santali).

Read on...

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/18615254/Indus-writing-on-utensils-and-metal-tools

End of forwarded message from S. Kalyanaraman

Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti

o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the educational
purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post may not
have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of the
poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption for
fair use of copyrighted works.
o If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read,
considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal name, current
e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number.
o Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by others are
not necessarily those of the poster who may or may not have read the article.

FAIR USE NOTICE: This article may contain copyrighted material the use of
which may or may not have been specifically authorized by the copyright
owner. This material is being made available in efforts to advance the
understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic,
democratic, scientific, social, and cultural, etc., issues. It is believed
that this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as
provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title
17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without
profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included
information for research, comment, discussion and educational purposes by
subscribing to USENET newsgroups or visiting web sites. For more information
go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
If you wish to use copyrighted material from this article for purposes of
your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the
copyright owner.

Since newsgroup posts are being removed
by forgery by one or more net terrorists,
this post may be reposted several times.


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